Policy and respect/disrespect - help needed!

[Anti]

So, this thread is about the issue of behavior in the community which was brought up in the S&M revival/fix-it thread. Since it is obviously naive to just think that everyone will be rose petals after being in an environment for so long where the opposite is accepted and pretty much expected, the S&M staff has been trying to figure out a fair policy when it comes to enforcing this "rule" ("be nice" is not a rule, but no disrespecting members is).

However, we are stuck.

There are a few problems we have had when it comes to forming this policy. The first that we all agreed that we should be nicer. Well okay, but what exactly does that mean? Should being mean in an implicit or subtle way be against the rules? When do comments go from just being in fun to being malicious and/or worthy of an infraction/kick/temporary server ban? There are a lot of issues like those (in the interest of avoiding making this tl;dr, I will avoid listing them), and it's hard to figure those things out. The basic idea though is that our standard for what is respectful and what is not has to be established. The things mentioned a month ago were obvious and flagrant, but what has troubled us has been things that could be considered borderline. Here we need your help.

The other issue is that once this standard is set, to what extend should it be forced? In other words, how strict should be be? In the past, we've tried to make the forum more laid back, but we have also tried tightening it up at other points. We would obviously would like to find a balance here, but only if that is what is generally desired by the community--you guys. We don't want to force rules onto you guys that no one thinks are fair. The goal is to make not just the standard fair but also how we enforce these rules. The main issue here is probably on the server and how people breaking the rules will be dealt with there, like how long of a leash we should give members with rule-breaking before resorting to temporary bans, then longer bans, etc. On a somewhat similar note, how strict should we be enforcing the hax complaining rule? I've received a few complaints about the amount of whining about it so I was curious what you guys thought on that as well.

We are genuinely stuck and would like some assistance. We just need a policy because persisting with the current policy of hoping that everyone will be nice is not going to do anyone much good.

 

[Vrai]

Behavior isn't going to be a quick-fix thing. However this thread turns out, it's going to be a difficult train to try to pull off the tracks and start it up the other way... but like you said, hoping that everyone will be all cool and stuff isn't helping much if at all. It's difficult to decide when the point of no return is. I mean, there's no reasonable way of defining where fun turns into flame. Because of that, I would rely simply on moderator discretion. I really don't think that there is any other logical way.

As I read your post I kind of just typed some notes that came to my head. I apologize if it's jumbled or doesn't make sense or something but it's getting late and I haven't been to bed since um like 40 hours ago. :l

- needs warning before punishment
- what's exactly malicious? i think that infractions=forums and kick/bans=server; they're two different places so punishment should be static for each
- strictness should be related to the degree of harassment or something like that
- i think it should be staff discretion for any and all big important decisions (like banning people for behavior? idk)
- i'm cool with hax complaining until it gets to such a degree that it's incredibly frustrating that user LUCARIO_MASTER41 won't shut up about how a -6 Sazandora crit and OHKO'd his +5/+5 Rankurusu (going for that last CM!!!) but annoying stuff is kick-worthy (even if it's coming from a mod and/or admin); rule of law and all that lol
- there has to be some kind of guideline for behavior, but i dont think setting a "standard" can be possible
- borderline shiz is staff decision imo i think i said that before but icr

soooooo yep. I'd flesh that out but I'm really lazy and tired.

 

[.Gamer]

I think that all of Vrai's suggestions are good, but there should be a clause that exempts me from consequences.

 

[Skip Shot]

I know a lot of the S+M regulars love to crack jokes about the past and it does kind of intimidate others a little bit possibly, but if we explain it to them it might help them feel more comfortable, and not ridicule them in the same way so to alleviate the fear of being made fun of in the same way.

Apart from that, disrespectful behavior would probably be:

- Complete disrespect towards a person on the server that's not in joke form
- Making fun of people because of what Pokemon they use in battle
- Overcomplaining/whining of game mechanics that the user can't control

I also feel that a verbal warning should be given to the user, then a kick, then a ban. Three strikes your out kind of deal, and can kind of be like the infraction system, where a strike is taken away after a week or so unless you get to strike three within the course of said week.

Just my two cents.

 

[Anti]

@Vrai: This thread was mostly created to try to avoid it being subjective. It's very difficult for mods to make decisions based on complete subjectivity, especially since there is more room for personal bias and other things. While it isn't an unsustainable way of handling things it's very inconsistent and makes it hard for people on both sides to figure out just what breaking the rules is. It even hurts from a legitimacy standpoint...for example, let's say that I hate User X. He is being disrespectful but it is a borderline case. I give him a small ban and two things happen: 1) User X can simply dismiss the ban as not being deserved since I gave it, and then the whole lesson of being more respectful doesn't get into his head, and 2) I don't even know if I made the right call and wonder if my personal bias affected my decision or, regardless of that even, I was just going too hard on him.

We can't set a super detailed standard because you're right, every case is different and ultimately requires some level of subjectivity (at least the ones relevant to this conversation). You even gave an example of something that could be used:

- i'm cool with hax complaining until it gets to such a degree that it's incredibly frustrating that user LUCARIO_MASTER41 won't shut up about how a -6 Sazandora crit and OHKO'd his +5/+5 Rankurusu (going for that last CM!!!) but annoying stuff is kick-worthy (even if it's coming from a mod and/or admin); rule of law and all that lol

Of course, this would be reworded into a more focused policy, but the basic point of what you said still applies. That is the kind of stuff we need because it is impossible to enforce "be nice" if no one (staff included) really knows what falls into that and what doesn't.

Thank you for the reply, Vraichu :3.

@Skip Shot

The three strikes and you're out seems sane enough though something that if implemented would probably be done on more of a vague basis, if only because it's an incredibly pain to keep track of who has however many strikes or what have you. I mean, it's almost always extremely obvious who has been "getting behind in the count" (lol) with rude behavior, so I don't see it as a huge problem.

I think your second point in the list is important, because that DOES happen and I don't believe anyone had brought it up until you did. I mean, there is no point of doing that, and it usually happens when someone had been surprised by an unorthodox attack and is bitter than they just lost a Pokemon...which is hilariously unsportsmanlike/taking Pokemon a tad bit too seriously. Thank you for bringing this up lol.

Also, I recently received a PM that I think deserves a little attention:

Ok, you're a mod, maybe you can do something about this.

The damn server is getting annoying people will d/c left and right the second the match goes out of their favor due to hax. First thing they do is cry about how much hax was in a person's favor, then beat their chests with how much their opponents team sucks, or "they would have won, if not for hax". It's like, no one is saying that you would have lost anyway. Nor is anyone gloating about their win because of hax.

I ain't naming names, and I'd like my name out of this if you want to do something about it. But it's annoying. I can hardly battle anymore from fear of getting their knickers in a twist. I use T-Wave, Teeter Dance, and other moves. If you hit yourself, big whoop. Rather than *****ing about a nooby move, deal with it. It's legal.

Sorry, now I'm venting. But you get what I mean. It's like, rule 8. NO WHINING ABOUT HAX.

And if I may vent some more, to whomever keeps saying "Inconsistent is part of the game, but it was banned", shut up! Kings Rock is banned because it added to the hax, and literally made it unfair. Hax happens to everyone. Either your lucky or your not. Wanna remove accuracy, and make all moves hit? Maybe remove status, like sleep?

Damn.

The thing that struck me here was the pure frustration...and the whole point of the campaign to be a nicer and more welcoming community is to make people have positive reactions to what happens on the server and not negative ones.

Personally, the fact that Pokemon is indeed just a game should make it obvious that we shouldn't let people be bullied because of hax in battles. How to translate that to a rule is as simple as "no complaining about hax," but some hax complaining, while annoying, is relatively harmless and certainly doesn't warrant actual punishment. I suppose something like "Complaining or whining about hax is discouraged, and doing it while simultaneously being disrespectful to another member will result in punishment" could work...but idk really lol.

 

[Skip Shot]

The way I see it, people can complain a little bit about hax if they feel it was purely game-breaking (like Heracross critting your Rotom and removing your Hera check and it costing you the match), but without attacking the other user about something they have no control over. When I go on Smogon or the Beta Server and Landlos or Torunoresu or something gets a crit and kills, say, their Multi Scale Dragonite, they get all pissed off and call ME a hax user. The thing is, I have no control over it, and its game mechanics. There's nothing I or my opponent can do. Attacking me for hax is just useless and disrespectful imo, so that should be disallowed. I mean to be honest, it's just a game people. Get over it.

One more thing that I want to bring up is the increasing number of users that just appear and challenge random people. I've gotten it more than once when I've just left the PC server on while I was doing homework. I kinda want this changed because I know it is annoying to some people (wolf being a good example, having kicked at least one person for challenge spamming). Nothing too harsh, just have them request a battle with you via the PM system or something firsthand and then leave you alone if you decline or don't answer after a certain amount of time. Consequences would be nothing more than a warning, maybe a kick if its overly annoying.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Just a note, Kings Rock isn't banned, so i mean umm yeah lol. :\

Inconsistent was banned because it takes the game literally out of the players hands which is what crits do. For example i was playing Jibaku on the ladder with an absolutely horrible team + Inconsistent Octillery. I was down 6-1, having NO right to win and i got a couple of lucky boosts and won 6-0. Both make matches a total luck based toss up. If you want logs to prove what i say then by all means i will post them.

Now i don't care about Teeter Dance, Iron Head flinches or any of that since lol its easy to stop, im talking about; User noobertron800 who lets you Curse up to +6 with your Lax because of his terrible battling abilities or cant find a way past your check/counter ? No worries, getting a crit will save him the match! This type of crap is extremely frustrating, so much so that it has lead me to quit battling (see: sig). Its also much more of a deal when ive had several LEGIT pm's from people asking me to implement a "critical hit nerf clause" (which sadly cant be done or it would of been done along time ago) on the server so i really don't think it should be brushed off as "whining".

My next issue is the gloating about it, Scizor007 (sorry but you did lol) did it and alot more people do it when they get that sort of stupid luck or in the very least they act very smug. This sort of crap should be disciplined too if whining is.

Lastly there most likely should be a middle ground. Why not make it obligatory to give rematches i you crit or freeze the hell out of your opponent ? I do/did it when i got ridiculous hax on my opponent. Dont see what the big deal with that is. If you are such a good battler then you should be able to win again anyway without the luck.

Regardless i still doubt ill return for a LONG time lol.

 

[luke]

Just a note, Kings Rock isn't banned, so i mean umm yeah lol. :\

Inconsistent was banned because it takes the game literally out of the players hands which is what crits do. For example i was playing Jibaku on the ladder with an absolutely horrible team + Inconsistent Octillery. I was down 6-1, having NO right to win and i got a couple of lucky boosts and won 6-0. Both make matches a total luck based toss up. If you want logs to prove what i say then by all means i will post them.

Now i don't care about Teeter Dance, Iron Head flinches or any of that since lol its easy to stop, im talking about; User noobertron800 who lets you Curse up to +6 with your Lax because of his terrible battling abilities or cant find a way past your check/counter ? No worries, getting a crit will save him the match! This type of crap is extremely frustrating, so much so that it has lead me to quit battling (see: sig). Its also much more of a deal when ive had several LEGIT pm's from people asking me to implement a "critical hit nerf clause" (which sadly cant be done or it would of been done along time ago) on the server so i really don't think it should be brushed off as "whining".

My next issue is the gloating about it, Scizor007 (sorry but you did lol) did it and alot more people do it when they get that sort of stupid luck or in the very least they act very smug. This sort of crap should be disciplined too if whining is.

Lastly there most likely should be a middle ground. Why not make it obligatory to give rematches i you crit or freeze the hell out of your opponent ? I do/did it when i got ridiculous hax on my opponent. Dont see what the big deal with that is. If you are such a good battler then you should be able to win again anyway without the luck.

Regardless i still doubt ill return for a LONG time lol.

Okay bye then. If that's your attitude, then we don't need it around right now. I know I've thrown numerous hissy fits in my time but I realized how big of a baby I was being in the end. I hope you get over it soon because we really do need you but not when you're acting like this.

I agree gloating over critical hits/other instances of luck is dumb. And we really need people to not do that.

It's a game. Yes we play it "competitively" but it's still just a game. Every game involved luck in some way. Will this platform happen to move just as I jump? Will I not find that last health item before the final boss that might screw me over? It's all luck and that's part of what makes it exciting to play. You never know what's going to happen. I don't know if this terrible attitude you've had lately stems from other things and I'm sorry if it is. But take a DLoA if you must or something to get over it. You're negatively impacting everyone around you and it sucks.


Anyway, back on topic. I've noticed an improvement overall from our members of "being nicer." As it's been mentioned before it was the "veterans" who were causing a problem. And they've really stepped it up. I've personally tried to be nicer and I think I've done better. I rarely get angry at the members I've had problems with in the past. I've always been one to help new people to the server. And it's been nice to see other's doing this as well. I think as long as we continue to encourage a semi-friendly, helpful environment we'll be fine. I don't expect people to be nice all the time. It's not in any of our natures. We will be allowed to make fun of people too. Just like a game without luck, a server without gentle ribbing would be no fun. I don't think we need official rules to keep this going. No infractions or anything. Let's just keep this trend going guys.

/end anti-sized post

 

[gamefan1]

Dark azelf is rigth how many time do you end up loosing because of badluck

: your confused pokemon it himself 5 time in a row,your pokemon only wake up to die etc.....

If your a real battler prove it : the first to win 2 out of 3 that the real way to do it


you dont need to change any rules but thats my opinion.
Theres always some people on every forum that have bad attitude this can't be helped :P.

 

[Aurafire]

Anyway, back on topic. I've noticed an improvement overall from our members of "being nicer." As it's been mentioned before it was the "veterans" who were causing a problem. And they've really stepped it up. I've personally tried to be nicer and I think I've done better. I rarely get angry at the members I've had problems with in the past. I've always been one to help new people to the server. And it's been nice to see other's doing this as well. I think as long as we continue to encourage a semi-friendly, helpful environment we'll be fine. I don't expect people to be nice all the time. It's not in any of our natures. We will be allowed to make fun of people too. Just like a game without luck, a server without gentle ribbing would be no fun. I don't think we need official rules to keep this going. No infractions or anything. Let's just keep this trend going guys.

/end anti-sized post

My sentiments exactly, I may be wrong but I think a lot of this frustration is coming from the lack of activity on the server and in S&M itself. I know I sound like a broken record sometimes but it's less than two months till B/W comes out and that should fix a lot of our problems.

As for respect and disrespect, it's a fairly simple matter of "don't be a dick." I think there have only been a few problem members in the recent past, all of whom have shown a significant improvement. S&M as a whole has become a much nicer place and this stupid rumor about us being "mean and nasty" or whatever doesn't carry much weight anymore, at least to anyone who's bothered to visit. Like Luke said, let's just keep this trend going and I think we'll be fine.

 

[blaQk]

I know I hardly get on PO anymore but I've been on there long enough to have input here.

First of all, complaining about hacks should not be punishable. They got shafted, they have a right to complain about it. However, this does not give them the right to spam about it or directly attack the person because their pokemon hacked them. The latter is what usually takes place.

Secondly, I'd like to point out something Dark Azelf said about "gloating." Punishing this would be a very stupid move. The reason is is because gloating is indeed part of the battle just like the pokemon are. Pokemon battles, just like most other games, have a psychological aspect to them. If someone's gloating pisses you off, they are only gaining the advantage because you're falling for it. Being pissed distracts you, making you play worse, allowing them to capitalize even further.

Lastly, I'd also like to point out, that not being nice to someone doesn't mean you're disrespecting them. Like Aurafire said, being a dick is where the disrespect starts to bleed in.

All in all, people are taking a children's video game way to seriously.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Don't see in the slightest how i have a bad attitude, i was just comparing how crits were similar to Inconsistent as they both take the game out of the players hands and turn whole matches into coin flips where the better player can lose because of blind luck, which really isn't good for any metagame when luck beats skill. :/ Even some of the better players on smogon agree with my frame of mind as you can see by the thread in my sig so yeah.

I take it you weren't on the server the other night ? Me and TrainerDevon battled ~8 times and we restarted because 4 turns in a row i got frozen on turn 1 (i dont care because i can prepare for this, im willing to adapt, Aromatherapy) or i got critted. He can verify this for you too. So either im correct that crits/hax are just as broken as Inconsistent or PO's coding is skewed. I can prepare for other kinda of luck, but not crits unless i run Lucky Chant. Im being honest, ive had to run that on my recent teams because its getting ridiculous and is just spoiling the game for me hence why im staying away. Again this is not only me, ive had PM's on the server and pc saying "D_A please can we have an anti crit script". You know who you are.

I wouldn't even mind as much if i didn't get met with "lolololol/rofl" every time they land a crit and KO. That just makes it more annoying.

Additionally if you notice i give rematches out should i get game breaking ones and apologize. As i said before, "if you are such a good battler then shouldn't be able to win without crits?". Seems like courtesy isn't mutual i guess.

@ blaQk Pokemon is rated E, E= suitable for everyone and not anywhere near specifically a children's game or they wouldn't of included more in depth things which are rather hard for children to grasp such as Iv's, Ev's etc.

Also you're aware that not punishing gloating is going precisely against what we are trying to do, i.e be nicer ?

EDIT:

And as for the whole "ive noticed people being nicer" i take it you haven't seen what they're (well one in particular) like when people of authority arent on lol ? For example, like the incidents the other night that go totally under the radar, a non english speaker came on the server and spoke some form of Spanish dialect. After being asked to speak English, which he did, was promptly bombarded with "NO HABLAR BATTAL TACO BURRITO?" from numerous people and then left for obvious reasons. Sure seems like being nicer to me. ._______.

 

[blaQk]

Additionally if you notice i give rematches out should i get game breaking ones and apologize. As i said before, "if you are such a good battler then shouldn't be able to win without crits?". Seems like courtesy isn't mutual i guess.

I can understand why you do this and why you're pushing for it to become "common courtesy." But you're right, it isn't mutual because it's not needed, and it's the player's choice. Just take your win or loss and move on.

@ blaQk Pokemon is rated E, E= suitable for everyone and not anywhere near specifically a children's game or they wouldn't of included more in depth things which are rather hard for children to grasp such as Iv's, Ev's etc.

ESRB ratings and "marketing targets" are two totally different things. We both know these games aren't pushed out with the mindset of "a lot of 20+ year olds are going to buy this."

Also you're aware that not punishing gloating is going precisely against what we are trying to do, i.e be nicer ?

Sorry, but one can gloat to make you lose further advantage and still be the nicest person in the world. Taking what happens in battle personally is a problem a lot of people have.

And as for the whole "ive noticed people being nicer" i take it you haven't seen what they're (well one in particular) like when people of authority arent on lol ? For example, like the incidents the other night that go totally under the radar, a non english speaker came on the server and spoke some form of Spanish dialect. After being asked to speak English, which he did, was promptly bombarded with "NO HABLAR BATTAL TACO BURRITO?" from numerous people and then left for obvious reasons. Sure seems like being nicer to me. ._______.

I can only imagine who it was. And to be honest, the sole reason I hardly get on anymore is due to one person. I'm completely fine with the occasional joke, taunt or whatever, and will admit I do it as well. However, I won't stick around if someone continues to do it, to the point of being completely annoying and/or abusive, without any punishment, epically when a mod isn't on.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Sorry, but one can gloat to make you lose further advantage and still be the nicest person in the world. Taking what happens in battle personally is a problem a lot of people have.

You CAN gloat but that doesn't make it right lol. It doesn't really make S+M look any better nor does it really encourage newer players.

I can only imagine who it was. And to be honest, the sole reason I hardly get on anymore is due to one person. I'm completely fine with the occasional joke, taunt or whatever, and will admit I do it as well. However, I won't stick around if someone continues to do it, to the point of being completely annoying and/or abusive, without any punishment, epically when a mod isn't on.

Yeah its the obvious candidate.

As for the sole reason for not coming on the server, you should tell a staff member and we'll most likely shaft em for you lol.

 

[Anti]

Just a note, sorry if this is repetitive and lacking in flow, as I had to split up writing this due to various distractions.

Why not make it obligatory to give rematches i you crit or freeze the hell out of your opponent ? I do/did it when i got ridiculous hax on my opponent. Dont see what the big deal with that is. If you are such a good battler then you should be able to win again anyway without the luck.

This is seriously ridiculous lol. In just about every game of Pokemon ever played you can complain about being wronged by something, even something like damage rolls...Salamence only had a 2.37% chance to KO Blissey with Dragon Claw but it did! HAX! You can claim it for anything. So if you make it obligatory to rematch, they're never going to stop because it's extremely unlikely to have an even game with regard to luck. What you're proposing is basically "make it so that I can force people to play me until I beat them into the ground" but acting on the pretense of being fair. But the thing is, Pokemon is an inherently unfair game in many ways, as you know. So why try to legislate it into being "fair"? All it does is make people battle against their will. How on earth is that sound policy? Because we can't just accept that sometimes we deserve to win but don't? If you can't accept that, quit. And indeed you have. But forcing unfair and rather extreme rules on people for the sake of "courtesy" (I put that in sarcastic quotes because in the three years I've been here, I've never known that it was courtesy to rematch someone in a haxy match nor do I think that it is after being introduced to the idea in this thread) is not sound policy. It's really just making it obligatory that users must succumb to someone who throws a fit about experiencing luck, a foundation of Pokemon. BlaQk is right: "Just take your win or loss and move on."

First of all, complaining about hacks should not be punishable. They got shafted, they have a right to complain about it. However, this does not give them the right to spam about it or directly attack the person because their pokemon hacked them. The latter is what usually takes place.

This is mostly what I meant when I said whining (though excessive complaining gets to the point where it deserves a kick, in my opinion). The bullying really is a case of, as you said at the end of your post, someone taking a children's game too seriously. If you want to say it's too complicated for children, fine. Taking any game too seriously where the only thing that you can get out of winning is increased internet prestige should be punishable no matter what age group the game is aimed at. I have heard members (both new ones and regulars) who don't like that trend. I don't see why we shouldn't just combat anti-hax abuse with punishment, if only on the pretense of our disrespect to members rule.

As for the part about gloating (I'm not gonna bother finding the quote lol), that's getting a little more on the obnoxious side. I wouldn't be against punishing it as long as, like with hax whining, it's where the punishment fits the crime. If the gloating is downright malicious then it should be treated just like any other disrespect to members thing imo.

As for respect and disrespect, it's a fairly simple matter of "don't be a dick." I think there have only been a few problem members in the recent past, all of whom have shown a significant improvement. S&M as a whole has become a much nicer place and this stupid rumor about us being "mean and nasty" or whatever doesn't carry much weight anymore, at least to anyone who's bothered to visit. Like Luke said, let's just keep this trend going and I think we'll be fine.

Anyway, back on topic. I've noticed an improvement overall from our members of "being nicer." As it's been mentioned before it was the "veterans" who were causing a problem. And they've really stepped it up. I've personally tried to be nicer and I think I've done better. I rarely get angry at the members I've had problems with in the past. I've always been one to help new people to the server. And it's been nice to see other's doing this as well. I think as long as we continue to encourage a semi-friendly, helpful environment we'll be fine. I don't expect people to be nice all the time. It's not in any of our natures. We will be allowed to make fun of people too. Just like a game without luck, a server without gentle ribbing would be no fun. I don't think we need official rules to keep this going. No infractions or anything. Let's just keep this trend going guys.

I agree that there has been improvement, especially from a few specific people who we've gotten on and who have stepped up. That being said, we should still have something in place just in case things go south, and they probably will from time to time just because it is indeed in our natures to be playfully rude. I didn't mean for this to sound like it's an issue that's killing us right now, but we do need something in place to enforce the rules. It's been pretty lax of late.

But the general tone from everyone seems to be that a standard is unnecessary. Obviously my thought that we needed one was off-base. I think that as long as everyone understands that sometimes us mods will make mistakes in discipline cases every now and again (as I did 3457634895734589 times during my first tenure), I don't see the problem with keeping it loose...as long as we actually DO something when there is a violation.

Is the only disagreement then about whining about hax? I sure hope so lol.

 

[scizor007]

My next issue is the gloating about it, Scizor007 did it .....

http://dictionary.sensagent.com/gloating/en-en/

First of all,for the 479th time,I did NOT do anything like that.

Secondly,since this post is about crits/whining yadda yadda,I guess I'm allowed to post these-

Spoiler:

Instance#1(Shoddy)

Dark Azelf switched in Spiritomb.
Starmie used Rapid Spin.
It doesn't affect foe Spiritomb...


(Next turn)
Starmie used Surf.
A critical hit.
Spiritomb lost 11300% of its health.
Dark Azelf's Spiritomb fainted.

​

*****Scizor007 was banned by Dark Azelf for a week.*****
"An error was received while connecting to the server....."

Instance#2

Start of turn 25

Mojumbo switched in Tangrowth.
Salamence used Fire Blast.
A critical hit.
Tangrowth lost 56% of its health.
Tangrowth recoverd a little HP using Leftovers.
Rain continues to fall.


Start of turn 26

Salamence used Fire blast.
A critical hit.
Tangrowth lost 57% of its health.
Mojumbo's Tangrowth fainted.
Rain continues to fall.
​

*****Mojumbo banned Saddam Hussain*****

Only to recount 2 of 98704 such occurences.Needless to say,both were my alts,and these logs were NOT made up by me....Talk about getting nicer.

Also,a few final words-

~I agree with BlaQk that we're taking a video game way too seriously.Heck,idc if pokemon's rated E or even Adult only,its still a game,and that's how it should be treated,NOT like USA vs JAP,world war II,"where a loss can be disastrous for your country",etc etc.

~Also,I think we're all grown-up enough,and should behave a bit more maturely.The game is designed to have crits,and we can't change it.Its only like 6.25% chance(unless someone's facing a Lansat berry Super luck Absol@Night slash).Yes,sometimes it can be a bit insane,for example,Jirachi getting 4/5 flinches on Desukan,Cloyster missing shards on chomp 2/3 times in a row.In such cases,of course,I think there should a rematch,otherwise not.

~As for people fussing over Fire Blast/Hydro pump/Focus blast missing 2/3 times in a row,the moves ARE MEANT TO BE POWERFUL AND INACCURATE.So,if someone wants accuracy,why not use compoundeyes Denchura using Shockwave,and that,too,with wide lens?

 

[Vrai]

http://dictionary.sensagent.com/gloating/en-en/

First of all,for the 479th time,I did NOT do anything like that.

Secondly,since this post is about crits/whining yadda yadda,I guess I'm allowed to post these-

Only to recount 2 of 98704 such occurences.Needless to say,both were my alts,and these logs were NOT made up by me.

Getting nicer,huh?

I don't understand how your post is supposed to be helpful and/or contributing to this thread. And yes, you gloated all of the damn time. There is not a single person on the server who would actually say that you never "exhibited a conspicuous sense of self-satisfaction, often at an adversary's misfortune" after a victory.

 

[sims796]

Crits have been part of the game from the begining. Part of shoddy from the begining. A crit-free meta was tested, and failed. We should all be used to this. I've had plenty of matches where I lost from a missd from a freakin' 95% accuracy (that's 5% miss chance) three times in a row. Plenty of times do I think that they did not deserve a win.

But I suck it up. They won, I lost. I ain't getting paid. I knew what I signed up for, and if I don't like it, there's always chess. Not checkers, though. Fulla hax, that is. Moves that break the game (Inconsistant, Fissure, Vileplume) are to be banned, but crits, parahax, freezing, part of the game, and a core part (wihich, as it happens, are also regulars of RPG's in general).

On an unrelated note, I really like that we have this thread. This isn't a problem exclusive to this site, mind you. Many, many forums have this problem. When a site has a bunch of regulars, they get sort of a club mentality. They reject anyone on the outside of that club, and will usually stick up for said regulars, somewhat like grade school. They then wonder why their site is in decline. We are trying to combat this issue.

I think it would be an excellent idea if we could add a report feature on the PO server if we don't already have one (and emphasize it if we already have one). Certain annoyances can, as said, be on a subjective case by case basis. What annoys me, may not annoy Loquacity. What irks DA, won't piss off Anti. We should encourage mebers to report those cases of grievance. If we lose members because others find their behavior unfunny, hey. Of course, the mods shall then handle the situation privately. In the most polite way possible (your gloating is annoying Member X. Please refrain from doing so in the future).

I got more to say, but I forget.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Sorry Scizor, yes you did brag, very much so. I remember specifically when you landed a crit against me and it cost me the entire match and it was followed up by something along the lines of "ROFL \O/ pwnedpwnedpwned". ~_~ lol

A crit-free meta was tested, and failed. We should all be used to this.

It hasn't yet so no one knows if it will benefit the metagame but its a good idea. D; I mean they were gonna test a meta without an evasion clause last gen so i don't see why this couldn't at LEAST be tested.

Also im not being an ass but can people PLEASE stop saying "fire blast missing is also hax" ? Yes it is, but its my own fault if i miss for using a move with 80% accuracy when there are alternative moves to pick so i don't care, nor do i care about any other sort of hax like low/high damage rolls (if you rely on low/high damage rolls to win or lose you frankly suck lol). Crits are the only thing im calling out, nothing more, nothing less because they don't add anything to the game and they cant be stopped, im not gonna repeat what i said since its in my other posts so yeah lol.

Also i appreciate people saying things about me behind my back on the server (people do tell me things you know :|) and the nice little "bye then" and "quit if you don't like it", its really making my decision a whole lot easier lol since you clearly don't need me.

 

[Anti]

This thread is about enforcing the rules, not who is a braggart or who is an unfair mod or how crits are annoying and should be destroyed. What do any of those things have to do with the very simple problem laid out in the OP? This thread is starting to go into a downward spiral of personal attacks/criticisms, so let's please keep this civil as well as focused.

My viewpoint on the general stuff is mostly here:

But the general tone from everyone seems to be that a standard is unnecessary. Obviously my thought that we needed one was off-base. I think that as long as everyone understands that sometimes us mods will make mistakes in discipline cases every now and again (as I did 3457634895734589 times during my first tenure), I don't see the problem with keeping it loose...as long as we actually DO something when there is a violation.

As for hax, I think that the bullying aspect should just go under the disrespect to members category while the general whining should only be punished if it's excessive--something subject to moderator subjectivity.

I did like the idea sims brought up:

I think it would be an excellent idea if we could add a report feature on the PO server if we don't already have one (and emphasize it if we already have one). Certain annoyances can, as said, be on a subjective case by case basis. What annoys me, may not annoy Loquacity. What irks DA, won't piss off Anti. We should encourage mebers to report those cases of grievance. If we lose members because others find their behavior unfunny, hey. Of course, the mods shall then handle the situation privately. In the most polite way possible (your gloating is annoying Member X. Please refrain from doing so in the future).

Of course, we couldn't do this directly from the server because of the limitations of our technology. But we can always have that option open where users can PM server staffers, probably with a chat log or something like that required. D_A brought up how when staff isn't there people can go back to being less civil. Reporting such things via PM sounds like a sensible solution.

The other thing that is pretty similar that I have been thinking about for awhile is a moderator feedback mechanism of some sort. It would be anonymous and more for general things as opposed to specific violations like the reporting thing sims talked about would be. I'll admit, this idea isn't very developed, but the basic principle of us knowing what everyone thinks without the risk of personal loss because of expressing those opinions seems healthy to me. The staff has been trying to be more open and transparent, and we've been trying to get all non-staff members to get more involved (see: this thread ;p) and I think that direct (but anonymous, I must stress again) feedback is another positive step toward those goals. I don't know how it would be done though, and like I said, it's not too developed yet...thoughts?