Whats going on with the world?

[DarkSkys]

We have ISIS, Cops attacking for no reason, sexual bashing & fights over a battle flag.


ISIS, recruiting American teens around the world to do what they want. Or use Muslims, in Tennessee 5 Marines killed. If there trying to bring that war to the homeland, I'm loaded and will shoot to protect what I believe and grew up on.


Cops, been said on the news that they shot and killed a kid named Brown last year. They also had a 5 on 1 beat down in another state. I've never liked Cops, reason being is from thinks like this. How can I trust there going to protect me if they do this?


Gay Marriage, I 'm bisexual and happy for this. Now before it was approved their was people that didn't like same sex couples, but once approved I've seen reports of Gays being physically attacked by Christians, which is something I believe no Christian nor anybody should do. Don't have to like the choices of others, and it doesn't affect you.


Battle Flag, better the Confederate flag, a symbol of the South. I fly this flag. Not as a hate flag but as a symbol of my heritage. Just because some nutjob kills some blacks doesn't mean this flag is racist. Its the person that uses it for that. is the one that's racist. I do not support the KKK. I watched a video earlier on this, the guy says we don't need a race war in America at this time, we have to many things now and starting a race war will just open us up for a terrorist attack.

 

[Spiff]

The world will always look pretty shitty if you choose to look at it through that lens.

 

[Her]

While I'll get to the 'the world's falling apart around me!' point of the topic soon, I can't help but make my views known over the examples listed in the OP. Whether or not anyone wishes to respond is up to them.

ISIS, recruiting American teens around the world to do what they want. Or use Muslims, in Tennessee 5 Marines killed. If there trying to bring that war to the homeland, I'm loaded and will shoot to protect what I believe and grew up on.

This doesn't sit right with me as it's overly aggressive towards an incredibly unlikely impossibility and seems to ignore the fact that America is the reason ISIS exists in the first place.

Cops, been said on the news that they shot and killed a kid named Brown last year. They also had a 5 on 1 beat down in another state. I've never liked Cops, reason being is from thinks like this. How can I trust there going to protect me if they do this?

Michael Brown, may he rest in power.
I'm jumping ahead a bit here, but given your predilection to flying the Confederate flag as noted a couple of paragraphs later, I'm highly dubious that you will ever face the violent oppression of the police.

Gay Marriage, I 'm bisexual and happy for this. Now before it was approved their was people that didn't like same sex couples, but once approved I've seen reports of Gays being physically attacked by Christians, which is something I believe no Christian nor anybody should do. Don't have to like the choices of others, and it doesn't affect you.

It will phase out, or at least be subdued. Radical Christians, as they are becoming known as due to the increased acceptance of LGBT people by the Christian religious population, will be ostracised by the general public. There will be further incidences but like with any adjustment of social norms and advancements in society, those who rally against the rising tide will be swept under.

Battle Flag, better the Confederate flag, a symbol of the South. I fly this flag. Not as a hate flag but as a symbol of my heritage. Just because some nutjob kills some blacks doesn't mean this flag is racist. Its the person that uses it for that. is the one that's racist. I do not support the KKK. I watched a video earlier on this, the guy says we don't need a race war in America at this time, we have to many things now and starting a race war will just open us up for a terrorist attack.

I have no interest in turning this thread into a 'race argument' as that isn't the point of the thread, but it's willful ignorance to claim that the Confederate Flag is not racist. It's a symbol of centuries of race-based oppression and how that oppression was sanctioned by a government and many of its citizens. Its very existence is to symbolise hate - it was created with the express purpose of having a visual image of white supremacy linked to the Confederacy. It is racist. Flying it or identifying with it with the knowledge of what it represents is racist, regardless of your own beliefs on race. Your underlying reason for the usage of the flag, it does not matter. Ones intent does not erase reality, art does not exist in a vacuum, etc.

Now, for the point of the topic - the world is crazy. To me, the sudden realisation that there is much wrong with the world speaks for ones level of naivety and their place in society. Depending on what they are shocked about and how they go about expressing that shock, it can usually be used as a reliable indicator on their social status and including but not limited to, their age; race; gender and financial class. Be sure to understand that I'm not saying this is an absolute, but it's been rather reliable to me in the past.

 

[DarkSkys]

I have no interest in turning this thread into a 'race argument' as that isn't the point of the thread, but it's willful ignorance to claim that the Confederate Flag is not racist. It's a symbol of centuries of race-based oppression and how that oppression was sanctioned by a government and many of its citizens. Its very existence is to symbolise hate - it was created with the express purpose of having a visual image of white supremacy linked to the Confederacy. It is racist. Flying it or identifying with it with the knowledge of what it represents is racist, regardless of your own beliefs on race. Your underlying reason for the usage of the flag, it does not matter. Ones intent does not erase reality, art does not exist in a vacuum, etc.

That can be said about any flag. You have gangs running around using the Mexican flag, so would they be considered racist? See, I view this world completely different. The #1 thing killing the world is politics. You can put some dumbass in charge and he'd run the country better.

 

[Her]

That can be said about any flag. You have gangs running around using the Mexican flag, so would they be considered racist? See, I view this world completely different. The #1 thing killing the world is politics. You can put some dumbass in charge and he'd run the country better.

Mexican gang members associating with the flag of their birthplace/ancestral birthplace isn't racist... them relating to a gang is irrelevant. But you're sort of right when you say it's the same with any flag - by nature of them representing a country, many national flags have dark histories, particularly Western ones. However, other flags being Rather Shit in comparison doesn't cancel out the Confederate flag being Completely Shit.

 

[DarkSkys]

Mexican gang members associating with the flag of their birthplace/ancestral birthplace isn't racist... them relating to a gang is irrelevant. But you're sort of right when you say it's the same with any flag - by nature of them representing a country, many national flags have dark histories, particularly Western ones. However, other flags being Rather **** in comparison doesn't cancel out the Confederate flag being Completely ****.

Now now, I didn't say that. Your right all flags have a dark past. But, we still fly them. Does that mean we're accepting there past? If so then I see no problem with flying a "Rebel" flag.

 

[Her]

Now now, I didn't say that. Your right all flags have a dark past. But, we still fly them. Does that mean we're accepting there past? If so then I see no problem with flying a "Rebel" flag.

I think it's up to each person to decide what their flag means to them after learning the truth about it. The less pride in nationalism the better imo, but sometimes it really is not that serious.

Now, honey, what I don't understand is the pride in associating with this rebellion today - like... it's not like these 'rebels' are anyone worth celebrating, it's not like they rebelled against the Galactic Empire. They rebelled because they didn't want the North telling them to stop treating black people like inhumans. The North wasn't that much better in that regard as we all should know, but I digress - the secession is not something worth connecting ones identity to at all.

 

[Sopheria]

It does seem like the world is a much scarier place to live in nowadays :c

We have ISIS, Cops attacking for no reason, sexual bashing & fights over a battle flag.

ISIS, recruiting American teens around the world to do what they want. Or use Muslims, in Tennessee 5 Marines killed. If there trying to bring that war to the homeland, I'm loaded and will shoot to protect what I believe and grew up on.

I feel like the best way to combat this is to do like you said, be willing to defend yourself. And in general American as a whole is going to need to have the courage to defend itself. I think there are plenty of people willing to do that, so I don't think an all out war will ever break out over here.

Cops, been said on the news that they shot and killed a kid named Brown last year. They also had a 5 on 1 beat down in another state. I've never liked Cops, reason being is from thinks like this. How can I trust there going to protect me if they do this?

This isn't anything new, sadly :(

The problem is, there's never any consequences for the police when they do something wrong. In instances of police brutality, corruption, or malpractice, they never get anything more than a paid leave of absence until "the situation gets sorted out". And that's not even done punitively. It's just done for the police department to save face during all the publicity.

Gay Marriage, I 'm bisexual and happy for this. Now before it was approved their was people that didn't like same sex couples, but once approved I've seen reports of Gays being physically attacked by Christians, which is something I believe no Christian nor anybody should do. Don't have to like the choices of others, and it doesn't affect you.

This is very sad, and I hate seeing it happen. The source of the problem seems obvious to me though...

As someone who supports same-sex marriage and falls under the LGBT spectrum, the fact that it was just declared into law by the Supreme Court instead of being voted on democratically has always sat wrong with me. I've always had very mixed feelings about this, because while something about it felt wrong, I couldn't articulate why. Now I realize: it's because we haven't actually convinced the majority of our nation/culture to accept/support same sex marriage. I'm not saying I'm not happy about same sex marriage going through, but it seems to me that the best way to do it would have been for each of the states to actually vote on it. Maybe that's just me :x But regardless of how I feel about it, it's a fact that when you put something into law that the majority don't support, sadly it leads to more resentment toward the group that pushed for it.

tl;dr we've just forced same sex marriage into law, but anti-gay bigotry is still as deeply rooted into our culture as it's always been.

Battle Flag, better the Confederate flag, a symbol of the South. I fly this flag. Not as a hate flag but as a symbol of my heritage. Just because some nutjob kills some blacks doesn't mean this flag is racist. Its the person that uses it for that. is the one that's racist. I do not support the KKK. I watched a video earlier on this, the guy says we don't need a race war in America at this time, we have to many things now and starting a race war will just open us up for a terrorist attack.

There isn't technically anything stopping you from continuing to fly the flag. It's not like a law was passed prohibiting you from flying it. All that happened was, it was taken down from the capitol in South Carolina. Taking it down made total sense to me, if I'm being honest. The Civil War was a war over which faction would have sovereignty over the nation. So why is the side that was defeated flying their flag over our government buildings? It doesn't make sense.

Like you said, it's a symbol of history and heritage. Where do symbols of history and heritage belong? Museums. And that's exactly where they put it.

 

[DarkSkys]

I think it's up to each person to decide what their flag means to them after learning the truth about it. The less pride in nationalism the better imo, but sometimes it really is not that serious.

Now, honey, what I don't understand is the pride in associating with this rebellion today - like... it's not like these 'rebels' are anyone worth celebrating, it's not like they rebelled against the Galactic Empire. They rebelled because they didn't want the North telling them to stop treating black people like inhumans. The North wasn't that much better in that regard as we all should know, but I digress - the secession is not something worth connecting ones identity to at all.

Note: I said in the OP I don't support the KKK, which use the flag for hate. Yes, I know of the past, yet its apart of history and I choose to fly it. But, if I'm racist for flying it. Then what does that make my black friend that also flies the flag?

 

[Her]

Note: I said in the OP I don't support the KKK, which use the flag for hate. Yes, I know of the past, yet its apart of history and I choose to fly it. But, if I'm racist for flying it. Then what does that make my black friend that also flies the flag?

An unfortunate victim of assimilation into white supremacy.

 

[Sydian]

Why would your black friend fly that flag? I'm sorry, I don't buy into that at all. And if they do, that's just...I can't even find the words to describe that. Anyway, I live in Alabama, so this flag thing is all over. I recently went to Mississippi on a trip to the casino and on the way back, I saw people waving Confederate flags on a bridge we passed under. My immediate thought, "I thought I lived in the United States, not the Confederate States." Why fly a flag for a country that no longer exists? I don't buy into the heritage thing, either. While I think it's fine to be proud of where your roots are, there are certain lines. For example, in Germany, someone whose family was in the Nazi party isn't flying that flag. Why? It's illegal and generally looked upon with anger, fear, or disgust, especially from those with Jewish ancestry. Yeah, what the Nazi party did holds more weight on the world itself, but what the Confederate States fought for and represent still holds weight in the US, namely for African Americans and this violence still occurs today, as exhibited by some of your other points.

Even without the racial connotations, we live in the United States. The north won the war. Hundreds of years ago. It's still flying a flag for a place that doesn't exist, no one technically lives in, and no one knows anyone from it. I, personally, see no interest in flying a flag for a place that's all that and then some, but I digress. I'm perfectly fine with the decision to remove them from courthouses and the like. I would be happier to see them illegal, allowing them only in museums, history books, and the like, but I'm dreaming too hard there being where I am, lol.

I don't really have any immediate thoughts on your others points aside from wishing the families of the victims peace (mainly this point and the flag because there's surprisingly not a thread for them). One of the marines lost was the son of one of our marching band family so the loss of him especially hits close to home. That being said, I'm not fond of how Fox (of course) treated the interview with his mother recently and used that time to chastise the White House instead of speak to this grieving and visibly crying mother over the air. Not the time to rain your anti-Washington vigilante, Fox, but I digress.

 

[Kanzler]

I think the whole uproar about the "Confederate Battle Flag" is overblown. It has never been used by the Confederacy to represent the Confederacy (as a country).

This:

Spoiler:

and this:

Spoiler:

were the Confederate national flags, much like how the Stars and Stripes represents the USA as a country.

Now there are flags used during the Confederate era that come close to the flag that's at the source of the uproar, take this:

Spoiler:

The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. Funny story - the birth of this flag came from a proposal to introduce a second national flag (which was turned down). But heck, it looked so good that they had it made anyways and it became the battle flag of that army for which it is named. It was useful because the Confederate and Union national flags looked too similar on the battlefield. Notice how it is a square.

There's also the Confederate Navy Jack:

Spoiler:

which is based on the aforementioned battle flag but has a lighter blue.

The modern representation of this flag is rectangular, and happened after the Confederacy. It became a symbol of the American South and was adopted by some racist groups over time. But it wasn't the "Confederate Flag", it was a battle flag flown by a military for the purposes of military identification, much like these flags that you've probably never even seen before (except for Japan and if you did recognize it but didn't know where it was from, shame on you!):

Spoiler:

I feel that the flag has been a victim of its own good looks. Men who fought underneath that flag fell in love with it instantly, and even today it remains an enduring symbol even though it was never used to represent the Confederacy as a country. If the design wasn't as nice, I highly doubt it would be a source of controversy today. But it wasn't designed for the Confederacy nor was it used by the Confederacy (by certain armies yes, but nationally, no. and armies get flags in our world for some strange reason). It was appropriated by some racist groups and was popularized in the 1900's but I don't think it's fair that the flag should have a permanently stained legacy because of that. It wasn't designed as a racist symbol and its connection to racism was initially weak, it's just that over the years some racists took it to be their symbol.

 

[Sir Codin]

I honestly didn't really give much of a shit about that flag until people started bitching about it recently.

To me, it was just something that was flown under by white trash and that's why I'm against banning people from waving it; because then I won't be able to see who's a moron in the southern U.S. and who isn't, especially women.

That flag is birth control as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Esper]

Isn't there anything else that people from the South can find their heritage in besides this flag?

I kind of feel like this is one of those things where you have white people who don't really feel like they've got much in the way of culture. They see all these diverse groups of black, Latino, Asian people who have a much stronger connection to one another through their shared heritage and culture and they look at themselves and they try to find something for themselves. I saw a map once that showed the ancestry of the USA:

And you can see that in the southern half of the South you have a lot of African American ancestry and then another group just called "American" in the northern South - as in, they don't have any real connection to any European group or any non-white group. All they have to turn to for identity is "Southern" since white America sort of likes to make fun of and exclude Southern people to a degree.

I was going somewhere with this but I lost my train of thought.

 

[DarkSkys]

Why would your black friend fly that flag? I'm sorry, I don't buy into that at all. And if they do, that's just...I can't even find the words to describe that. Anyway, I live in Alabama, so this flag thing is all over. I recently went to Mississippi on a trip to the casino and on the way back, I saw people waving Confederate flags on a bridge we passed under. My immediate thought, "I thought I lived in the United States, not the Confederate States." Why fly a flag for a country that no longer exists? I don't buy into the heritage thing, either. While I think it's fine to be proud of where your roots are, there are certain lines. For example, in Germany, someone whose family was in the Nazi party isn't flying that flag. Why? It's illegal and generally looked upon with anger, fear, or disgust, especially from those with Jewish ancestry. Yeah, what the Nazi party did holds more weight on the world itself, but what the Confederate States fought for and represent still holds weight in the US, namely for African Americans and this violence still occurs today, as exhibited by some of your other points.

Even without the racial connotations, we live in the United States. The north won the war. Hundreds of years ago. It's still flying a flag for a place that doesn't exist, no one technically lives in, and no one knows anyone from it. I, personally, see no interest in flying a flag for a place that's all that and then some, but I digress. I'm perfectly fine with the decision to remove them from courthouses and the like. I would be happier to see them illegal, allowing them only in museums, history books, and the like, but I'm dreaming too hard there being where I am, lol.

I don't really have any immediate thoughts on your others points aside from wishing the families of the victims peace (mainly this point and the flag because there's surprisingly not a thread for them). One of the marines lost was the son of one of our marching band family so the loss of him especially hits close to home. That being said, I'm not fond of how Fox (of course) treated the interview with his mother recently and used that time to chastise the White House instead of speak to this grieving and visibly crying mother over the air. Not the time to rain your anti-Washington vigilante, Fox, but I digress.

You live in Alabama, so you heard the news about changing the State Troopers cars & uniforms. See I grew up being told it represents the south. Later on I found out about the past, the thing is. If you live in the past you have no future. Go talk to the idiot sitting in jail now. I had family that served in the war, and other wars through out the generations.

 

[Her]

I feel that the flag has been a victim of its own good looks. Men who fought underneath that flag fell in love with it instantly, and even today it remains an enduring symbol even though it was never used to represent the Confederacy as a country. If the design wasn't as nice, I highly doubt it would be a source of controversy today. But it wasn't designed for the Confederacy nor was it used by the Confederacy (by certain armies yes, but nationally, no. and armies get flags in our world for some strange reason). It was appropriated by some racist groups and was popularized in the 1900's but I don't think it's fair that the flag should have a permanently stained legacy because of that. It wasn't designed as a racist symbol and its connection to racism was initially weak, it's just that over the years some racists took it to be their symbol.

Dunno why there's such endless attempts to get around the plain point of the various designed flags.

 

[Kanzler]

The presence of other symbols from which one can find their heritage does not, as a principle, de-legitimize any one of those symbols. Even if it's true that white people don't have much in the way of culture, that doesn't in itself mean anything for the symbols they choose to represent themselves with.

Also, I think ancestry in this context means "where did you come from". My guess is that much of the South has an "American" majority ancestry because most European immigrants settled elsewhere (Westward for the Germans who settled mainly in the 19th century, in the Northeast for Italians, Irish who settled in large numbers around the same time). Actually I think most "recent" European immigration to the US occurred in the 19th century, and it appears that not many settled in the South.

@God just because the person who designed the flag was a racist doesn't mean that the flag is necessarily racist. Also the whole superiority of the white race flag is the Confederate national flag with the bloodstained banner, which isn't the controversial one lately. I mean, some of the founding fathers were slave-holders and drafted the Constitution, so does that mean the Constitution consequently promotes slavery or pro-slavery ideology? I don't believe that's a sound connection to make.

 

[DarkSkys]

@God just because the person who designed the flag was a racist doesn't mean that the flag is necessarily racist.

Like the whole gun control thing lol Guns don't kill people. People kill people, like the flag isn't racist. Its the person that uses it that way.

 

[Her]

On another note - since the thread is about the world falling apart (or rather, the realisation that it has been for quite some time), how many of you have hope for the future? It's all well and good to dwell on the history of the issues in the OP as most people aren't aware of the intricacies of the problems let alone having a proper opinion on them, but do you see things getting better within a reasonable timeframe?

@Kanzler - it was designed with white supremacy in mind ergo racist idk why that's so hard to grapple

 

[Kanzler]

@God I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here: "designed with white supremacy in mind ergo racism". Sure it was designed with racist intentions - I don't doubt the historical accuracy of Miles' reputation. The thing is though, it was primarily used as a battle flag by the men who fought under it. Now we see it appropriated as a symbol for Southern pride. Does that necessarily include racism? I don't think that's what most people who take pride in the flag believe. I don't doubt that there are racists in the South, but I do doubt that they put up the flag thinking "that represents me, and that represents racism". That's the case I'm trying to make here.