Whats going on with the world?

[Nah]

We should probably rename this thread to "The Confederate Flag" at this point lol

I do agree with Kanzler that a symbol doesn't always have to represent one specific thing, but by that same token people can view the symbol in another way and legitimately take issue with it. Yes, to some people the Confederate flag is a symbol of "Southern pride/heritage" and they might not be racist, but to others it's the symbol of a nation that wished for the continued enslavement of an entire race of people. And I would think that maaaaaybe in that case you'd wanna find another symbol for your Southern Pride^TM instead of a symbol that legitimately means something incredibly negative to a not insignificant number of people.

I never did understand though why people take pride in their heritage or lineage though.....

 

[Kanzler]

I never did understand though why people take pride in their heritage or lineage though.....

This could be a thread in and of itself.

My short answer would be that most (many) people like to feel like they are a part of something greater. For some it's family. For others it's the community. For others, it's nation. I think most people enjoy being accepted in some sort of tribe, whether it be big or small and for many people that kind of need for community identity can be fulfilled by their regional/national/historical affiliation in addition to others that are probably more universal (but obviously not absolutely universal, I'm sure we all know people who don't identify at all with their family and instead find some other community or subculture to latch on to).

 

[R2J]

I think we all need to recognize that symbols can be appropriated and re-appropriated, and saying that a symbol must mean X is doing a disservice to those who have taken the symbol to mean something else for a long time.

I really don't think that "Southern Pride" is a euphemism for continued racial hate or a movement to bring back or support a Confederate regime. I don't know, but I believe that those in the South are as proud for being Americans and living in the US of A as any other American. I feel that there's so much unquestioned attribution of slavery to that flag in this thread that I really have to wonder: what do those who fly that flag believe?

I think it's unreasonable to assume that a symbol can only have one meaning. We talk about how the flag represents an ideology and a regime of racial superiority as if that's the only way to view the flag. But it's clearly not, and that's the reason why people are outraged at the prospect that the flag is becoming increasingly politically incorrect. I would imagine that someone who truly is proud of their Southern culture and heritage and acknowledges and dissociates themselves from the faults of the past would feel threatened if more and more people start believing that just because they fly that flag, they are racists, they hate blacks, and whatever other connotations we seem to be imposing.

And for the sake of subverting Godwin's law for the rest of the thread, I don't believe that the Dixie flag is comparable to the Nazi swastika, which has been used by no one but hate and racial superiority ideologues.

Is there anyone who truly believes that those who fly the Dixie flag strictly as a symbol of their pride in their Southern culture are in the minority and that the majority of people who use that symbol would like to see the progress made in race relations and equality in the past several decades overturned?

My father flew the flag, always saying its a sign that's he's from the south. Of course this was on a truck like you see some doing today. I remember having people rip it off the truck, throw it on the ground, even beat on his truck if we had it parked somewhere. My dad would tell me, you can fly it. Just never use it as hate. Let the ones that live in the past do as they please, but if they physically touch you or your family for flying the flag then be a man and protect your family. I had some friends in High School that was indeed racist, which the friendship didn't last long due to me growing up with a black friend that lived next door. When it comes to the flag, its flown by personal beliefs & passing down from Generation to Generation.

i want to see these blue and green people that are brought up whenever someone says that we're all just human beings or the like

There is actually a women that lives around Huntsville, AL. When I was working at a Wal-Mart, she would come in once a week. Her skin was green, later I found out that's its a skin condition. As for pink, saying that it doesn't matter what color you are.

 

[Ivysaur]

There is a problem though, which is interfering with this whole topic, and that is that symbols can have very different meanings, and have them symultaneously. For a Southern white, the Confederate flag is a symbol of heritage and Southern pride. For a black, it's a symbol of hatred and slavery. For a northerner, it's a symbol of rebellion against their own country. And nobody can just walk in and say "now the flag only means 'rebellion against the US'", because then the other two groups will say "Yeah, because YOU say so, right? The flag has always stood for slavery/heritage and always will". As a result, when people argue about the meaning of the flag, they can't understand each other. Some people can't understand why a symbol of Southern pride can be hated so much, while others can't understand why a symbol of their ancestors' suffering or of a war against their own country can be loved by anybody at all.

The flag is extremely divisive, and the problem is that its meanings are so different that the sides cannot even agree to hide it, because one of them can't see anything bad with their interpretation of its meaning. That's why a debate needs to be held- and, to be honest, if the Southerners could find any other symbol -anything at all- to celebrate their heritage that doesn't read like an insult to millions of people, things would be much better.

 

[Keiran]

My father flew the flag, always saying its a sign that's he's from the south. Of course this was on a truck like you see some doing today. I remember having people rip it off the truck, throw it on the ground, even beat on his truck if we had it parked somewhere. My dad would tell me, you can fly it. Just never use it as hate. Let the ones that live in the past do as they please, but if they physically touch you or your family for flying the flag then be a man and protect your family.

That thinking is a bit backwards because technically, having pride in your "heritage" is living in the past. Whereas recognizing a flag as being representative of a racist regime is not because people still use it. Racism is not a thing of the past, either, for we are inundated by it as we speak. Slavery itself is still a huge problem today.

 

[Kanzler]

That thinking is a bit backwards because technically, having pride in your "heritage" is living in the past. Whereas recognizing a flag as being representative of a racist regime is not because people still use it. Racism is not a thing of the past, either, for we are inundated by it as we speak. Slavery itself is still a huge problem today.

I think it's doing a great disservice to the idea of heritage by not just equating it to but calling it living in the past. Heritage may be inherited from the past, but it matters because it lives in the present as well. People are proud of their heritage because they're proud of their culture and their way of life and it doesn't matter how old their culture is.

Slavery is indeed a horrific problem, but it's not as huge in the same way as it was in the past. Slavery as a legal system where the treatment of people as property is officially sanctioned by the state no longer exists in any country. Of course human trafficking, indebted bondage and other kinds of forced labour are problems that haven't gone away and are increasingly underground. It's a much more different problem than the one faced by the antebellum Southern US slave society and has a lot more to do with law enforcement.

 

[R2J]

That thinking is a bit backwards because technically, having pride in your "heritage" is living in the past. Whereas recognizing a flag as being representative of a racist regime is not because people still use it. Racism is not a thing of the past, either, for we are inundated by it as we speak. Slavery itself is still a huge problem today.

See growing up with that, I learned the world is full of opinions and nobody's going to have the excite same one. Beliefs are different, that's fine. But physically attacks, aren't. People taking things to far is nuts, the guy that shot up that church should be locked up. Such as the black that shot at a guys family home in Alabama while he & his family was home.