Chit-Chat: Wiicked Cool Daily Chit-Chat

[Klippy]

https://soundcloud.com/cntrlmashups/hotline-link

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

When they have routes, they matter. I can think of many a VN with no choices whatsoever.

What is VN without multiple endings, though? :P

 

[machomuu]

What is VN without multiple endings, though? :P

A visual novel.

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

A visual novel.

Okay, guess we don't have the same opinion as usual.
VN without multiple endings is nothing more than an interactive movie.

 

[pkmin3033]

VN without multiple endings is nothing more than an interactive movie.

What, like FFXIII? :D

I don't mind multiple endings in VNs, but what I do mind is having to skip through the exact same dialogue to get them. It's the biggest flaw with the genre, in my opinion...it'd be much nicer if VNs had proper branching routes depending on your choices, rather than just different endings. It makes it very difficult to track your progress without meticulously following a guide as well, which admittedly isn't my preferred way of playing.

 

[machomuu]

Okay, guess we don't have the same opinion as usual.
VN without multiple endings is nothing more than an interactive movie.

Considering that they're called "Visual Novels" and what they are isn't much more detailed an explanation than that...I'm not seeing where choice would be a prerequisite. Plus, as I've mentioned before, not all visual novels are games. A lot of them are just books as a visual medium...hence the name.

Careful where you wave that idea that single-ending VNs aren't VNs at all, because in most parts of the internet that'd be seen as flamebait. Especially with that "interactive movie" part considering that the defining characteristic of movies is that they...move. VNs use still sprites 9 times out of 10, so...

 

[Wicked3DS]

I'll be honest: these types of games sound really boring. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie.

 

[machomuu]

I'll be honest: these types of games sound really boring. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie.

Well, as I said, they're not always games. In most cases, they're text-heavy games where characters' lines are (often) voiced and what is happening is either explained, implied, or shown (usually with an explanation, assuming it's done using a CG). Still not entirely sure why they're being likened to movies considering...they aren't like movies, they're like books if they were a visual medium.

Relevant:

Spoiler:

Though I will say this: whether a VN does or doesn't involve choices doesn't make it any more or less interactive than watching a movie that follows different routes as well. Because in both cases, you're just making a choice to see this different story. How is playing Fate/Stay Night and following a flowchart to get to the specific ending you wanted any different than choosing between watching the original Fate/Stay Night anime and the 2015 one? Does it make watching anymore interactive? No? Then how does that make the game more interactive? Because you clicked a button?

The "choice" you made was not to do whatever was prompted on the screen, the choice you made was to go through a specific route or not. Your choice didn't change anything, all you did was choose between "Route A" and "Route B". Movies have alternate endings, too. Heck, so do books and anime.

Also relevant. I'd recommend giving this a listen. Or playing the game because it's so goddamn good:

Spoiler:

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

Considering that they're called "Visual Novels" and what they are isn't much more detailed an explanation than that...I'm not seeing where choice would be a prerequisite. Plus, as I've mentioned before, not all visual novels are games. A lot of them are just books as a visual medium...hence the name.

Careful where you wave that idea that single-ending VNs aren't VNs at all, because in most parts of the internet that'd be seen as flamebait. Especially with that "interactive movie" part considering that the defining characteristic of movies is that they...move. VNs use still sprites 9 times out of 10, so...

My main point is that if we do consider VNs (I didn't mean VN as a genre but as a description of novel game (should have specified that, but I wasn't if you would know what I mean by novel game, though... =D)) without branching paths as VNs, then Telltale games will have to be considered VNs which was the starting point of our discussion.
And I believe we both agree that they are not VNs.

What, like FFXIII? :D

I had no idea FF13 was a VN xDDDD

 

[machomuu]

My main point is that if we do consider VNs (I didn't mean VN as a genre but as a description of novel game (should have specified that, but I wasn't if you would know what I mean by novel game, though... =D)) without branching paths as VNs, then Telltale games will have to be considered VNs which was the starting point of our discussion.
And I believe we both agree that they are not VNs.

Was it? I thought we were just...huh. Wow, I guess it was. Yeah, totally agree with you, then.

Love ya, Tosh.

 

[Banz]

I've been listening to the Ori and the Blind Forest soundtrack all day. I think I should play it again.

 

[Leviathan]

I'm surprised that I'm rather enjoying playing Rocket League. Me and my friend were having a good laugh playing it! <3

And oh, has anyone seen the latest trailer for the Ratchet & Clank game? 'Cuz are we to assume that Nefarious is (possibly) going to be the antagonist for the game whilst Drek is the baddie for the movie? It doesn't make sense to me if it's true...

 

[Razer302]

I just picked up the new cars for Rocket League, I love playing that game far to much.

I can not wait for the new Ratchet and Clank, I totally love them games and the new one I hope doesn't let me down. I haven't seen the new trailer yet actually. But I hope its not Nefarious

 

[Bo Vine]

WWE2K16 just come out. Playing as The Terminator is funny, if nothing else.

NightCry is like Clock Tower.

 

[Morkula]

I need to actually make an effort to get into Rocket League. I've enjoyed what I've played so far, but I'm terrible at it and I can't get past the point of "randomly bouncing the ball around and chasing it."

Probably one of those games that's more fun with friends though.

 

[Pave Low]

I have played so much Rocket League in the last month. 120 hours. One of my friends also has it but he doesn't play it as much. I've found it becomes a lot more enjoyable when you know how to do things rather than hitting and hoping. When you start making good plays and have good games, it makes you want to play another another one. For the most part, I just play online ranked games but it would be nice to play in a team of 3.

 

[derozio]

Are any of these episodic games actually worth buying, now that they're finally finished? I've had half an eye on a couple (Tales from the Borderlands and Life Is Strange, mainly) and I'm not really sure what to make of them...are they, like, Western visual novels or something? I love Borderlands and I've enjoyed most of the visual novels I've played (a couple of routes in Amnesia and Katawa Shoujo were VERY poorly written) so would Tales appeal to me as well? How about Life Is Strange? I've seen people in fits of rage over that final episode; it's quite confusing, and doing research on a game that relies so heavily on story is a risky prospect...

I just stayed up the entire night finishing Life is Strange. Totally worth it. Some cringe worthy dialogues and poor lip syncing aside, it is a really great experience. Ironically I personally enjoyed episode 5 the most haha. Highly recommend it.

 

[Luck]

Though I will say this: whether a VN does or doesn't involve choices doesn't make it any more or less interactive than watching a movie that follows different routes as well.

But it does by the very definition of interaction. And what do you mean by different routes? Is there a movie that allows you to change an element of it through its own internal functions? Because absolutely nothing comes to mind.

Because in both cases, you're just making a choice to see this different story. How is playing Fate/Stay Night and following a flowchart to get to the specific ending you wanted any different than choosing between watching the original Fate/Stay Night anime and the 2015 one?

It's different because one medium requires outside input in order to progress, while another medium doesn't require the involvement of the audience at all.

Then how does that make the game more interactive? Because you clicked a button?

Yes actually. The interactive element might actually be a hindrance to the work as a whole, but that distinction is important

 

[machomuu]

But it does by the very definition of interaction. And what do you mean by different routes? Is there a movie that allows you to change an element of it through its own internal functions? Because absolutely nothing comes to mind.

The Fate series, in particular, comes to mind. As for movies? Sure, Blu-Rays and DVDs, among other things. Especially if you want to reach a certain ending. Oreimo too, to some extent.

It's different because one medium requires outside input in order to progress, while another medium doesn't require the involvement of the audience at all.

VN's more often than not have Auto functions and can have as many as one meaningful "choice" in their entirety, if any at all. Hell, even the more choice-based games can have a timer and if you don't do anything, the story progresses. Steins;Gate comes to mind, and I can't well see people taking well to the idea that that's not a VN. So really, I don't think anything about VNs inherently makes input necessary, it's definitely a case-by-case thing.

Yes actually. The interactive element might actually be a hindrance to the work as a whole, but that distinction is important

I dunno about that. Sure, you pressed a button in the game, but there had to be some sort of interaction in opting to watch the anime as well. You not only had to make the choice, but you also had to make it happen, which, more likely than not, actually requires more interaction than just clicking a single key.

Semantically, of course. If we were to talk functionally, it'd be about the same.

 

[Luck]

The Fate series, in particular, comes to mind. As for movies? Sure, Blu-Rays and DVDs, among other things. Especially if you want to reach a certain ending. Oreimo too, to some extent.

I'm still confused because you said it as if the movies themselves had internal functions that changed the outcome. Having an option for video settings isn't interactive in the same way a video game is, if that's what you're trying to say.

I'll admit that I don't know much about Fate or VNs in general, but I'm going to assume that the vast majority of them have some sort of fail state, either in the form of midgame Game Overs or simply bad ends. Flowchart gameplay hardly makes for an enthralling experience, but the choice is there.

VN's more often than not have Auto functions and can have as many as one meaningful "choice" in their entirety, if any at all. Hell, even the more choice-based games can have a timer and if you don't do anything, the story progresses. Steins;Gate comes to mind, and I can't well see people taking well to the idea that that's not a VN. So really, I don't think anything about VNs inherently makes input necessary, it's definitely a case-by-case thing.

The choice is what matters though. Even if Stein;s Gate can reach the ending without any input from the player after clicking "New Game", the option of interrupting the flow of the game and giving you a choice in the outcome is what makes it a game. I hate Quick Time Events as a whole and think they're better off not existing, but that doesn't make it any less gameplay.

I dunno about that. Sure, you pressed a button in the game, but there had to be some sort of interaction in opting to watch the anime as well. You not only had to make the choice, but you also had to make it happen, which, more likely than not, actually requires more interaction than just clicking a single key.

But those are from external actions. Video games are defined by their level of interactivity within their own confines.

Semantically, of course. If we were to talk functionally, it'd be about the same.

It's not really semantics because the in-game interaction does make the difference between a video game and a movie, and that interactive element is why many people don't consider video games art. That's not to say interactivity is inherently a good thing, because some games misuse the level of interactivity or even cut it down to a minimum in order to be seen as pretentious tripe(The Graveyard).

Anyways, even if a choice doesn't change the outcome of the game, it sometimes matters due to the message that it delivers. For an example, NieR has a decision around the middle of the game that goes as such:
A) Petrify one of the main characters in the game in order to contain a monster
B)Don't petrify her, and "get annihilated"(it's actually a But Thou Must situation)
Even if you're forced to make one decision and the rest of the game is unchanged, the choice exists to evoke an emotion. Not every choice has to matter.

Sorry if it sounds a little aimless and rambling, I have a hard time creating a proper flow when responding to a message quote by quote.