BettyNewbie

Hey sorry for not being online much. I should be able to reply to that PM later today.

Yeah, no kidding, and it was mishandled even there (I can name plenty of shows that ultimately were just marketing gimmicks that actually HAD good stories regardless, like for example, Beast Wars Transformers. That had some very solid entertainment and a very good story DESPITE essentially being a 30 minute toy commercial for the latest Transformer line.). What's worse is that, thanks to Marshadow being the only Mythical Pokémon in Gen VII besides Magearna, they just wasted any opportunities for a Movie 21 even WITH their marketing it after this mess of a movie.


Yeah, agreed, and that's not getting into how they failed to actually REFERENCE the Indigo Saga for the most part during Battle Frontier despite it being set in Kanto. Other than revisiting Brock's family and Misty briefly returning (plus the Spurt opening), the only real references to that saga are the flashbacks to Ash's Kanto starters and Ash challenging Viridian Gym. Nothing else. Pokémon's about as averse to continuity right now as Hideo Kojima is with Metal Gear.


Yeah, no kidding. Even Best Wishes and AG got better ratings than that.


I see you used that term I used to reference the Female Anime Stereotype (there were actually two sources for that name: One's Love Hina, obviously, but the other was actually from Pokémon. Specifically, the town that the events of Princess vs. Princess were set in was named "O-Hina Town"). And yeah, agreed. If they are to use a PC again, they'd better make her a gym battler so Ash actually has a role in mentoring her, that, or use a male PC, that would actually be a change for once.

And I think I remember that first episode due to seeing it.


Yeah, agreed. And quite frankly, he really should win a game league just this once, especially considering how, Orange Islands aside, they don't let him win one league.


Yeah, no kidding. Though even Johto ultimately was preferable to AG. Sure, maybe the long sequence of fillers was annoying, but at least the payoff was good due to Ash beating Gary and even managing to do better than in Kanto. AG, you could literally skip and not miss much, that's the problem.

And honestly, I could even forgive the bit about Brock basically becoming Pokémon's version of Glenn Quagmire from Family Guy if he at LEAST tried to pursue his breeder goal in Johto, especially when GSC was the time breeding became an actual mechanic. They really screwed up there, especially after how much Brock cared for Togepi as an egg. In fact, he doesn't even get any chances at actually raising a Pokémon as an egg until Happiny in DP, way later on. Even Tracey, his replacement, actually managed to breed a Pokémon. You'd think they'd try to have him try to actually breed Pokémon at least, family show or not. I mean, Disney got away with a sex scene in Lady and the Tramp specifically because the ones participating in it were dogs and thus was ultimately still family friendly for that.


Yeah, no kidding, and even if they do make it stick, it usually is for the most damaging changes that just make the writers seem desperate AND arrogant as a result.

And honestly, at least the Simpsons wasn't meant to have an ongoing goal to accomplish as its main plotline, so I could tolerate it not having much continuity (even though I dislike them ignoring continuity). The same can't be said for Pokémon, especially considering that Ash's Pokémon Master Goal pretty much requires a lot of continuity and aging to even WORK.


Yeah, you're telling me. And honestly, I actually get irritated a few times when I see people arguing on TV, especially if they're dating, since I really can't stand the sight of people arguing, and that's especially a problem when they're trying to do something like, I don't know, investigate a murder or something. I could tolerate it a bit with NCIS: Los Angeles since at least there, they usually manage to be a bit more, I don't know, bouncing off one another, and usually they do it at the beginning of an episode when they aren't trying to solve a case. And yeah, I also get irritated when friends fight each other over some guy (or girl, for that matter). Doesn't make anyone look good. And your point about the guy coming across as a cheating jerk reminds me, one of the things I really dislike about Brock from Johto onward is that he constantly flirts with every girl he sees and tries to get into their pants. I'm never fond of that kind of humor or characterization since, speaking as a heterosexual male, I just think that gives us a very bad name. I also didn't like it when Charlie Harper, Krillin, Master Roshi, or Lumiere did it either, or Glenn Quagmire. At least in Kanto, while he did have that bit with him unfortunately, at the same time, he also at least had moments where he was very redeemable as a character, such as explaining strategies and being a mentor to Ash, oh, and also going out of his way to save that Charmander and really reading Damian the riot act for his callous treatment of that Charmander. Shame that the later appearances didn't even bother with those kinds of things. I mean, I guess with Ash, you could excuse it as Ash growing up and not needing his advice, but not the other stuff like him hating trainer cruelty and trying to help a Pokémon in need.

And like I said, I'm familiar with pandering for ratings and the negative elements that results in. Heroes got ruined with that during the fourth season/fifth volume where they decided to just randomly have Claire Bennet enter a relationship with a woman despite it never once being implied beforehand that she had any attraction to the same gender, and if anything was closer to being heterosexual in past seasons. Something similar happened with Supergirl with Alex Danvers (I even quit that show recently because of it, well, that and the writers deciding to use the show as a sounding board for their political and social views and beat us over the head with it. Most of us just wanted to watch an adaptation for one of DC's comic book superheroes, not lectured at with political and social views of the writers. And for the record, I'd say the same thing even if they were pushing stuff I actually agreed with.). And West Wing had an episode where Diana and Josh were shown sleeping together twice nearing the end of the season (and they weren't even married at the time), and it's pretty obvious they were pandering to ratings there.

Correction, Hikamaru's actually female, not male. My mistake.

Good to hear.


I got about 132 signatures from the entire four day period. And hopefully, with what's coming up, I won't need to do any further than that.


Yeah, no kidding. I've been asking myself the same question. And not just that, it also boggles my mind on how they have the tie-in manga, which, you know, is supposed to actually promote the movie, be completely divorced from the actual movie (like, for example: Marshadow's characterization in the film was radically different from his one-shot, as the former seemed like they just made him a Mephiles expy).


Agreed there.


Fully agreed there. That's why even though I agree with Hikamaru on several things about how Sun and Moon's just terrible, I disagree with him on how Sun and Moon revisiting Kanto for nostalgia purposes is necessarily a bad thing. Even if they end up overdoing the Original Series references, at least it would have actually worked especially given Ash being in Kanto, compared to Battle Frontier where you wouldn't even know he's traveling through his home region considering how low key they were.


Hmm, well, I don't mind many of the starters, so I can't say I agree or disagree there. And I guess the DP reference to her was referring to her marketing the Poketch thing, right? Well, I guess I can see why Bulbapedia would think Marina was a coordinator considering they acted as though the Poketch was vital to a Coordinator's career and she was clearly marketing it.


Yeah, agreed, and it would also give Ash the opportunity to actually show her the ropes regarding being a Pokémon Trainer (let's face it, other than maybe teaching her how to throw Pokeballs at Pokémon, he really doesn't have much options on how to actually mentor the new characters as of right now, and that's if the writers even BOTHER to actually maintain continuity to even have him come across as a seasoned pro.). Would make for excellent development for Ash as well.


Yeah, no kidding. It also doesn't help that they didn't even bother to consider replacing Brock, considering he barely even served a use in Johto as it is (barely even focused on his breeder goal despite that generation introducing the breeding mechanic. Misty's Water Pokémon Master goal got a LOT more focus than Brock's did).


To be fair, Pokémon's not the only one guilty of this. The Simpsons had something similar happen with its 25th season premiere, where they heavily teased that an important character would die in the episode, but it turned out that, no, it was not an important character (a beloved character, sure, but not an important one): It was Hershel Krustofsky, the father of Krusty the Clown. This, of course, got a LOT of negative publicity when the episode aired largely because the way they advertised it, they made it seem as though Homer was going to die.


Not really all that fond of love triangles either. If they want drama regarding love relationships, they shouldn't have to introduce a rival for that to work. Try life or death situations, for example. Besides, sometimes adding a love triangle is ultimately unnecessary especially if the moral of the tale doesn't even have it and the villain comes across as extremely poorly written. Take Beauty and the Beast, for example: There was zero need for a love triangle between Belle, Beast, and Gaston. There wasn't a love triangle between Belle, the triplets, and Gaston at all (heck, if anything, the triplets actually seemed to accept Gaston would choose Belle over themselves if their reaction to Belle refusing him is of any indication, and overall, they actually failed as foils for Belle since they didn't come across as internally ugly), and Gaston, well, fitting in with the ugly on the inside element of being Beast's foil aside, his... "love" for Belle to put it loosely made him VERY badly characterized, that and him outright giving away many details of his evil plan in public like some idiot (and it also doesn't help that the only reason Gaston and Beast even fought was because Belle basically acted like an idiot and recklessly exposed the Beast's reflection to a congregated mob, even when she should have known full well that they'd inevitably try to kill him, not to mention that Gaston the one who orchestrated said mob to arrest Maurice in the first place as she clearly deduced, would rabblerouse them). Now, that all being said, if it were like Ariel, Eric, and Vanessa, where there is a bit of a love triangle, but the whole reason for it is not simply because of drama for romance itself, but because someone is actively being a threat and interfering specifically to win out in a prior deal, that would work. Don't simply add in a love triangle or anything more than that simply for the sake of it.

Fine by me, take all the time you need.

Sorry for not responding earlier, I've been busy collecting signatures at Dragon Con to bring Misty back (yes, I know that technically, Misty actually is returning, but I needed a fall-back strategy in case the writers screw up massively).


I guess you've got a point there (they did have Ash's League hat sweepstakes commercial in that Mankey episode featuring Charizard and Blastoise, after all).


Yeah, no kidding. Misty and Brock being present may not have necessarily saved the story from being a total mess, but at least it would have made the story a bit more tethered to being an actual 20th anniversary celebration akin to Dragon Ball: The Path to Power.


Yeah, no kidding. They could have at least made the form somewhat more accessible rather than make it download exclusive. Seems like a bit of a waste even if it does make money.


Well, to be fair, they could always give it to Sceptile or any other Pokémon Ash has that's capable of it in addition to Charizard and/or Pidgeot. Would more than make up for XY's failure to actually GIVE him a Mega. And honestly, Ash retrieving Pidgeot would probably be enough to make up for the writers stupidly having Ash NOT visit it in Battle Frontier (I can understand him not keeping his promise in Johto, but not AG).


Well, to be fair regarding Kris/Marina, she wasn't exactly a Coordinator either, more of a marketer. But yeah, I agree there, fair point.


Yeah, no kidding. Well, at least Lyra's actually attempting to put forward gym battles. Let's hope Lillie averts it as well, especially considering how unlike the prior characters, she's an important NPC.


Fully agreed there. Even Pokémon Special replaces its characters, why can't Pokémon? And that's not even counting Digimon which at least replaces its main characters (and I hated Digimon when I was a kid since I thought it was a ripoff).


Yeah, no kidding. I also had enough genre savvy to realize that all those "hints" to Amourshipping wouldn't take, even knowing that the titles probably would end up betraying expectations with the Date episode knowing how the Japanese title for what we know as "Date with Delcatty" indicated that Misty would pull a life-risking maneuver, when, really, she didn't (probably the only time she actually DID do that in a Hoso was when she took Poison Sting to prevent Gyarados from being hit by the attack). And don't get me started on the Luvdisc special where the previews made it seem as though Orangeshipping was going to be canon when in reality, most of the so-called "hints" were from Daisy's overactive imagination, and even the one hint that actually did occur in reality was technically done while Misty and Tracey were under the influence of attract, and that was just for the purposes of Daisy's play. And they constantly betrayed expectations there (shame the writers did it in the one plays they really shouldn't do something like that with the Kalos League, that was just stupid beyond belief, and it also didn't help that such an action was pointless even compared to the other times Ash lost a league since there literally were no gyms or leagues in Alola).


Hmm, fair point. I'm similar myself, though I usually limit myself to those who are love at first sight and have said love reciprocated. And while I won't comment on Gary's looks (being straight after all, I won't comment on a guy's looks), I will admit I did have some respect for him, essentially making him the General Pepper-type character in my Pokémon Crew stories, or at least, his dad or uncle.

Could be. There was the theory that they were going to reboot the anime this gen...

Yeah, it takes a bit off, but not all.

Yeah. Ironically, though, Blastoise and Venusaur were literally the face of Pokémon Blue and Green, respectively, which meant that they if anything were as much marketable as Charizard.

And I don't mind marketing so long as they don't end up neglecting the story or development in the process.


Yeah, don't remind me of that. Even ignoring the mess-ups to the original series and neglecting Misty and Brock, and to a certain extent Gary, they didn't even bother to connect it with those marketing mangas that were meant to set it up (Marshadow in the movie was radically different from the Marshadow in the tie-in manga, for example). Overall, it was a mess.


Yeah, no kidding. Also doesn't help that people like Dogasu, with all due respect to him, constantly whines about any changes 4Kids made to the series, even when some of the changes were ultimately necessary because most American kids would understand the bit about JJM eavesdropping on Ash and his friends via reeds underwater in Volcanic Panic for example. Now, if they actually screwed up a viable translation, fine, they deserve to be called out on it.


Yeah, a real shame that they did that and pretty bad overall. At least with Johto, though, Ash had Oak immediately dispatching him to Johto as an excuse, and he made clear with Falkner that he intends to reunite with Pidgeot someday. Too bad the idiot writers of AG didn't even bother to follow through on his promise to Pidgeot, thus making him seem as bad as Damian.

And yeah, let's hope that Pidgeot and, heck, any of his other Pokémon utilize Megas as well. We got Ash-Greninja, and while he's cool overall, he's still not a true Mega anyways, and Ash has gone without a Mega for far too long, which is unacceptable not just because it could showcase his skill in that regard, but also because it wasted a good marketing opportunity as well.


Yeah, true (and in the case of Silver, he made a brief appearance in the opening for the Raikou Special). And regarding the girls, the closest they ever got to actually averting that trend after Misty's departure was with Iris.


Yeah, Johto was probably a far more fitting end there, rather than having him go through regions, only occasionally getting better and then having his triumph stolen from him anyway, and otherwise either doing the same as before or doing worse, and overall doing level resets.


Yeah, I know, and it's already bad enough that Pokeshipping and Amourshipping wars are prevalent (personally, I adhere to neither shipping as I don't ship, not unless it's something like how Disney generally treats romance or Romeo and Juliet, and even there, only if it is reciprocated). If they end up bringing Serena in, unless they just have them becoming friendly without vying for Ash's attention like when May and Misty returned, I'm definitely going to have to really contain my irritation regarding possible in-universe fights.

What do you think about the upcoming Brock and Misty episodes?

I'll agree with you there. They definitely should have evolved it when they had the chance, or at the very least if they REALLY wanted to keep it unevolved, give it some justification for not evolving like, I don't know, not wanting to evolve, similar to Bulbasaur, and to a lesser extent Squirtle.


Yeah, I know what you mean by that. I'm still reluctant to embrace retcons, even for things I don't like, largely because I realize it's a very dangerous tool especially if not used wisely.


Yeah, agreed, and based on her and Veronica Taylor actually emulating Misty and Ash respectively while in traffic, I'm pretty sure Rachel Lillis at least would express interest in reprising the role and would do so again (and for bonus points, she doesn't even need to work on her Jessie voice as well).


Yeah, that would definitely go a long way to truly fixing several mistakes the writers have made frequently, including among other things, Misty's shoddy departure (not to mention failing to truly give her any sense of closure or even a means to continue her own goal, even changing her goal of her own free will), their making Ash as bad as Damian regarding Pidgeot, and also getting Squirtle back (if they can bring back Charizard permanently, they most certainly can bring Squirtle back). And hey, if they use Pidgeot's Mega Evolution, it also has the added benefit of Ash putting Pidgeot to better use.


Yeah, no kidding. You'd think they'd at least put them to better use.


Yeah, no kidding about that either. Besides Johto, the only good leagues were DP and XY since they at least had Ash actually doing better than before even if he didn't win. Even there, however, they generally did a cheap last-minute steal regarding progressing any further to ensure Ash doesn't actually win (And in DP's case, the fact that they heavily foreshadowed Ash potentially facing the Elite 4 and some Pokémon Sunday stuff in the leadup to BW where Ash was not only absent from various BW promotional materials, but said Sunday staff outright noted the absence, suggests that Ash losing the league had been a last minute decision.). It's arguably even worse regarding Kalos since unlike Sinnoh, which at least had there being a new league as an excuse for Ash losing in a cheap manner, they had Ash lose DESPITE there not being any league in Alola, and certainly no gyms for that matter.).


Yeah, and in the case of Misty, also make up for the really shoddy treatment they've given her for quite some time by forcing her into a gym. Come to think of it, I wonder if her returning had to do with that Japanese poll that had Brock and Misty making first and third place, respectively during the leadup to Movie 20?

Eh, personally, I didn't mind Togepi that much, could care less about it one way or another. In fact, I'm actually baffled as to why people give it that much hate, even going as far as to treat its relationship to Misty like a Metroid feeding on its victims. If anything, I thought it was a far better done relationship than May and Manaphy's relationship. Say what you will about how Misty and Togepi's relationship was handled overall, at least if Togepi was in danger, whether being abducted, going missing, or anything like that, you definitely can count on Misty to go out of her way to save it or at least track it down. May didn't make any attempt to save Manaphy when Phantom abducted it in Movie 9, or heck, even aid Ash in stopping him and saving it. Besides, Misty's violent temper even prior to Togepi existing if you ask me was far closer to a mere three-mile island compared to Jessie from the same series, or ESPECIALLY Naru Narusegawa from Love Hina (at least Misty only gets violent when Ash and Brock do something genuinely foolish and/or bad. As that link you provided pointed out, Naru violently beats up Keitaru if he does so much as even look at her the wrong way, or heck, even walk in at the absolute wrong time). And even before Togepi hatched, or even before its egg was discovered, Misty definitely had hints at a motherly nature, like for example, she comforted that Cubone during her brief stint as a nurse, and in the case of the first two episodes, she was genuinely concerned with Pikachu and, in the novelization, even directly comforted it by cradling it. Besides, I know of a few characters where their becoming a mother didn't harm their development at all and in some cases actually helped tremendously and made them even more of a badass, like Ariel from The Little Mermaid II, or Samus Aran from Super Metroid, or Terra Branford from Final Fantasy VI.

Not to mention, quite frankly, maybe Togepi should have been developed a whole lot better than it did, but I don't think having it be a battler would have worked. Orange Islands already established that it doesn't really understand several basic moves even if you do a physical demonstration, its moveset in the games wasn't particularly impressive until Gen IV, and even the way it evolves doesn't even involve battling. Ironically, Misty "babying" Togepi actually came far closer to unlocking its potential than having it fight. And personally, not blaming you specifically so much as several other fans in general such as Cybercubed who claimed that, but I kinda blame everyone insisting that Togepi "did nothing" by not battling at all for the various OP Pokémon we got in the anime starting with AG, including Ash's Hoenn team for the most part, not to mention May's Eevee and Squirtle, and probably also Dawn's Piplup. At least Pikachu's OP status was excused by it not being an ordinary Pikachu to begin with.

But agreed, would like to see Azurril evolve, especially when its evolved forms actually ARE Water Types.


Eh, personally, I'm not a big fan of doing AUs or retcons, especially when the anime's already bad enough with continuity as it is from AG onward (and quite frankly, after the complete mess Hideo Kojima made with Metal Gear's continuity with each entry, up to and especially including the mess that was MGSV, I would rather they do as few retcons as humanly possible). Besides, the fact that Misty and Brock are considered Ash's friends would suggest that its not an AU (Misty and Brock didn't appear in M20). Now, if she and him both mention the bike, it's sold being the same continuity, which if anything would make it even better.


Maybe, but then again, even Giovanni spent from the episode TCPi started doing new voice actors up to DP080 with a new voice actor, and then with DP080 afterward, he got back his old 4Kids VA, so its not necessarily impossible for Misty to have Rachel Lillis act as her VA when the episode gets dubbed.


Yeah, no kidding. We didn't get a reappearance from them until the Battle Frontier. Speaking of which, let's hope that with the upcoming Kanto revisit, they also have Ash's Squirtle return for good as well, like what happened with Ash's Charizard in BW. Oh, and also bring back Pidgeot.


Yeah, valid points, and let's not forget how they wasted a perfectly good opportunity to not only bring Misty back, but also potentially bring closure to her character back in Best Wishes where they managed to completely skip over the Pokémon World Conference arc despite it actually being something from Pokémon Black 2 and White 2, and thus have a whole lot of advertising potential. Probably the only one that actually DID get decent coverage was HeartGold and SoulSilver, and that's only because they at least had the playable characters from those games actually cameo in a few episodes.


Yeah, I agree there. And even in the few instances they do show things from the games, they really overrate it regarding the full game like with Contests. And its not like kids can't, I don't know, get DVD boxed sets to catch up or, heck, even watch the series on YouTube at least to catch up.


Ugh, don't remind me of Cameron. That guy should have outright LOST to Ash due to having been a massive idiot throughout the league, making even BW Ash look smart by comparison. And yeah, that's what makes it even MORE sad as well, especially when in the case of Noland and Brandon, they actually used Legendaries (heck, even OWNED Legendaries in the latter case), meaning they definitely shouldn't have qualified as weak.


Fully agreed there, though I prefer it to be the standard canon and not an AU. Continuity's been pretty bad as it is with this series, and I prefer it stay true to canon for once, rather than treat everything like an AU (besides, I'm not fond of retcons especially after the mess Hideo Kojima caused with Metal Gear as it is).

Still, at least Misty did far more in Johto than Brock did, too bad she got the axe and not him, especially considering Pewter Gym's situation was FAR worse than Misty's situation with Cerulean Gym.


Yeah, agreed. Hopefully they've got an actual Water Pokémon Master event akin to the Whirl Cup that both she and Misty could participate in. Would at least be better than what is essentially an Emperor's New School clone (nothing against Emperor's New School, but that kind of series doesn't fit in with Pokémon at all, and I really don't appreciate Ash being forced out of what was supposed to be his goal, literally having his victory stolen from him in a cheap manner, and then not even attempt to oversee development of a new league in Alola as compensation, or better yet, actually WIN Kalos). And this is especially if Misty is indeed returning for far longer than two episodes.

Well, I saw it now, and I even made a reply. And I'm also especially eager at the description, since there's no mention of Misty even being a Gym Leader in sight, which means she's pursuing her Water Pokémon Master again, most likely, which definitely would be a form of redemption for the writers. The Megas are the icing on the cake. As far as the dub for those episodes when they come out, maybe they'll bring back Rachel Lillis for Misty. After all, they did bring back the 4Kids VA for Giovanni to play as him, so it's not impossible.

And you said it. Especially after the messup that was M20.


Don't forget May getting Bulbasaur and Squirtle as well. In fact, she got Bulbasaur the same day FRLG came out in Japan. And yeah, agreed there, and honestly, the Battle Frontier was probably one of the few redeeming moments for the AG saga due to Ash compensating for his rather unimpressive turnout at Hoenn. Even there, though, it ultimately got treated as a dang joke afterwards, especially after how Pikachu was beaten around (not as humiliating as BW where he literally LOST to a person just out of the door starting a new journey, but still pretty humiliating). Probably the closest we got to actual continuity to the old Kanto saga was with the Spurt! opening.


Yeah, no kidding. She missed out on XY, and she might even miss SM. Shame, as her goal was actually pretty interesting.


Yeah, agreed with that. And quite frankly, the only reason being beaten to a pulp would even be appealing to those guys is if they were somehow masochistic. I wouldn't even like being beaten up at all.


Yeah, it looks like it. Of course, we still have to wait until September 21 rolls around before we can officially declare victory. Don't want to make the same mistake Tarkin made against the Rebels in A New Hope regarding the Death Star, where he thought he was guaranteed an easy victory simply because the odds were in his favor.


Yeah, and Wallace only became champ in Emerald.

It's actually almost fitting Misty will be coming back in SM, considering that Alola, the primary region of Gen VII, arguably has even MORE water than Hoenn.

You know what, you're right, they definitely failed to do a lot of that. They even failed to bring in Pidgeot, thus making Ash seem pretty bad (at least with Johto, him not revisiting Pidgeot was somewhat justified due to Oak not really giving him much time to do so. AG had him have plenty of time revisiting him, yet they failed to do that).

I'd personally prefer it if May didn't return.


No kidding, and quite frankly, Iris having a cameo would at least allow us to see how much progress she was getting regarding her Dragon Pokémon Master goal, especially when there's no real hinderance to her coming back, unlike May, Dawn, and Serena, where they'd need to have a contest to have their return be even remotely plausible.


Tell me about it. I doubt Misty would like any of the girls if she met them face to face and especially if she witnessed them attacking Keitaro Urashima. After all, she came from a pretty bad familial background where her sisters neglected her, and at worst were at times emotionally abusive, so I don't think she would have liked seeing Urashima being beaten up especially for very trivial reasons like him being present at the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact, we even got a hint of this when she fought against Giselle after witnessing her bullying that kid, and was notably the only one of the cast who didn't change her stance on how disgusting Giselle's treatment of the kid was just because she was a girl. I'm even willing to bet that, if she caught them, she'd treat them like Starkiller did to those Stormtroopers in The Force Unleashed II: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zmlBA_8JRTA#t=450


One of my videos giving reasons for bringing Misty back (the very first part, in fact) actually has the clip in question. I'll provide it for you so you won't even need to take my word for it. Think of it as a memory refresher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0OowSxgEcE In fact, it's at the very beginning. The video series is called "super-edited" because I was planning for it to be four videos long, but I had to combine the first two videos since my Pinnacle software could not allow for multiple blurs as a form of censorship (and had problems actually tracking certain parts of the sensitive areas of even one as it is. Let's just say that I had to show some nude pictures from Love Hina in there specifically to prove to the audiences, and since it's a family film, I needed to tastefully show it so they'd get the idea without exposing kids to filth at the same time.). Someday, I may revisit that video.


Quite frankly, I think that was just downright inappropriate and really causes uncomfortable implications considering the girls in the anime are 10, children, in other words.


Thanks. I've also had some storyboards for a Star Wars type thing called Water Wars that would have involved Pokémon and Kim Possible (oh, and also Disney's The Little Mermaid), and that would have been part of that story arc. It would have been a spinoff for another story called Pokémon Crew, which was essentially a mix of Pokémon, Beast Wars: Transformers, and Star Fox (from 64 up to Assault). Bear in mind, I came up with this storyline long before 2006, which was when I officially started fighting to bring Misty back.

And yeah, agreed there, that was perfect for a Misty movie, and I'm pretty sure there, she actually WOULD have aided in taking out Phantom instead of letting Ash do all the work, or if she doesn't actually end up helping, there's some justification for it, like the fact that he slammed her against a wall while abducting Manaphy and thus she couldn't actually help. Heck, Hoenn itself was practically MADE for Misty.

Yeah, fully agreed there. They definitely shouldn't have screwed over storytelling or continuity regarding this. For goodness sakes, during the Battle Frontier, they barely even attempted to tie in any continuity for Kanto at all, despite it being Ash's own home region. You would have thought based on how things were done that they were just traveling some other region. And no kidding regarding May, it also doesn't help that she got replaced by Dawn, just proving just how disposable she really was despite Sinnoh having contests.


Yeah, no kidding about that, especially regarding the ribbon thing. To be fair regarding that last picture, he does seem to also be attempting to challenge Rayquaza due to him holding out the Pokeball, even though he's obviously afraid.


Not just an anime, a manga as well. A so-called romantic comedy (when it's anything but romantic, or comedic for that matter). However, long story short, it's about a sap named Keitaru Urashima who tries and ends up flunking getting into college, so to tide himself over before he tries again, he stayed at what was his grandma's inn, which is currently being used as essentially a girls dorm, featuring plenty of other university rejects (and later, a child and some samurai lady person). Of course, during his stay, he gets into a huge amount of hot water from the girls from the kind of bad luck and coincidences that you'd expect to read about in one of Franz Kafka's literary works. Whether it's being there in the wrong place and at the wrong time, or simply being forced to look at them, it ends the same way every time: He gets beaten by a pulp. Heck, even when it's actually one of them who walks in on him while changing for once, he STILL gets beaten to a pulp. What's worse is that they don't bother beating each other up and if anything expose them and even at a few points fondle each other. Yes, in other words, it's very MUCH a trashy fanservice franchise, which also derives humor from the girls being huge domestic abusers and even hypocrites (and for girls who are going to college, they certainly aren't acting at all intelligent, and if anything do come across as being bimbos to be very blunt about it. Heck, the reason why they, and Urashima for that matter, are even going to college in the first place didn't even deal with studying for a future profession, either: They just wanted to meet their childhood sweethearts at College thanks to a stupid game of patty-cake). You can read more about it here.

And I take it you are at least familiar with the Fiorello Fangirls, right?


Yeah, agreed there. And I know that the XY game version of Serena at least was popular due to her being a trophy in SSB4, alongside the male protagonist in XY, so it's not like the writers aren't familiar with how well received she was.


Yeah, agreed, and I think even Japanese audiences could agree with you there as well, considering just how poorly Pokémon's doing in terms of ratings since AG (and quite frankly, if their intent was just to focus on the new kids, the decrease in ratings, many times sharply, indicates they did a very poor job at that.). Of anything AG onward regarding the series, the only thing that was even remotely watchable was the Manaphy movie, and that's only because the whole Samiya Sea Crown thing was interesting and besides which, it's actually relevant to Water Pokémon. In fact, I actually got the idea for some drawings of Misty and Disney's Ariel from that movie as well as Super Mario Bros. Z, the Sonic series, and Dragon Ball Z, where they gain a new Super Saiyan-esque form via the Sea Crown in direct reference to the climax where Ash essentially went Super Saiyan.

https://otnesse.deviantart.com/art/Ariel-as-a-Super-Mermaid-469640727

https://otnesse.deviantart.com/art/Misty-as-a-Super-Misty-front-close-up-469638640

https://otnesse.deviantart.com/art/Misty-as-a-Super-Misty-angle-469636742

(and yes, I did actually add gills to Misty's neck)

Heck, I even got one idea relating to Vanessa as well from the same sources as well (as well as taking some cues on her form from Broly):

https://otnesse.deviantart.com/art/Semi-Super-Vanessa-Sea-Crown-Shards-477516251

Might as well continue our little discussion here, since Kostas had to put an end to our discussion despite it technically being on topic regarding the favorite girls thing.


Yeah, no kidding. I know Kostas said the anime and games are different, but considering one of the main points, as much as I really hate to say it, is to advertise the games, they need to keep it at least similar enough to actually succeed in advertising the games and not do false advertising. And having the girls do something as their main goal which in the games was little more than a purely optional sidequest and trivial overall doesn't really work out all that well.


Yeah, no kidding, and even Serena as a rival is no slouch, considering she's implied to be an ace trainer there, and Dawn, even when she's a rival, she at least shows you the ropes regarding capturing Pokémon.


Well, to be fair, May did come across as fairly feminine and shy if she's the rival character in Ruby and Sapphire, but even still, even her rival personality and characterization definitely was a lot more tolerable compared to her anime personality and characterization. And yeah, I see your point there. Still, at least Emerald's version of her also gave her a quite badass key art pose to compensate for her being slightly more feminine than before.

Let me be blunt, one of the reasons I utterly dislike, hate even, May and Dawn's characterizations in the anime is because it reminds me far too much of, say, the girls from Love Hina, or heck, the Fiorello Fangirls from the Kanto episode Princess vs. Princess (I think you may remember them: They were the girls who squealed like animals and proceeded to trample Ash, Brock, and James faster than the wildebeests trampled Mufasa in The Lion King, and then squealed AGAIN after the unveiling of the dolls and Fiorello Cappucino mentioned it was good to be here.). Why on earth would THAT be considered a good characterization for any of the female cast members, much less those two? Probably the only real difference is that at least May and Dawn don't beat up Ash and call him a pervert for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or heck, even when it's them in turn who walked in on HIM by accident for a change, which is one of the OTHER reasons why I utterly hate the girls from Love Hina.


Yeah, agreed with that. Even still, Serena, despite not having much of a reason compared to Misty for going with Ash, still had plenty compared to May and Dawn at least regarding journeying with him at all. I mean, Dawn could easily make it by herself based on how she handled her first day.


Fully agreed there with you on CodeHelmet's idea. Having Serena actually be a quasi-rival for Ash and also a student would have been far better development for her, especially if they wanted to actually give some point to her crush besides what is ultimately a marketing gimmick that failed hard especially through various false hypes (not to mention was very poorly handled even without that. I mean, I personally prefer love at first sight to gradual love, but they also need to make sure that they actually have reciprocation to some degree, otherwise, it comes across as pointless).


Yeah, don't remind me on how mediocre AG was. Even without the bit about Misty being forced off the show in a tasteless manner immediately beforehand, the show had plenty of problems of its own. Like, for example, the fact that the Gym Leaders of Hoenn for some reason seemed to be depicted as grossly incompetent by having them lose to rookies for some reason (only Roxanne and Brawley came across as being genuinely skilled, since 1., Roxanne at least lost to Pikachu, a confirmed veteran, and 2., Brawley's the only one of the Gym Leaders who actually beat Ash [I'm not counting Norman, since, like I said, I suspect the only reason they had Ash lose to him was to give an excuse to bypass him and go the route of the games, since Norman obviously isn't Ash's dad unlike in the games). Not to mention, Ash got the exact same rank as in Johto, the immediate preceding league, which indicates he never actually did better than before. And while the Battle Frontier was pretty good from what I can gather, they then had Ash losing to Gary afterwards despite the latter being retired from training (and then Ash's losses in DP make it even worse by having Ash's Pikachu lose against Gym Leaders despite up and out wiping out a freaking Regice, heck, even having Pikachu lose against an Ursaring that Paul caught in Sinnoh earlier, and that was despite Paul losing to Brandon), thus treating the one major accomplishment Ash actually had in AG as a total joke. Oh, and also having a LOT of wasted opportunities to actually do continuity nods or, heck, even allowing Ash to actually visit his Pidgeot and thus fulfill his promise to it earlier (not counting the "Spurt!" opening/ending). I mean, seriously? I can understand Ash not visiting Pidgeot after completing the Orange Islands, since Professor Oak didn't exactly allow him a whole lot of time to do so due to promptly sending him to Johto to bring the GS Ball to Kurt. But during AG where he most certainly had plenty of time to do it? I'm sorry, but that's just flat out unacceptable. Say what you will about Johto and its GS Ball missed opportunity and long fillers, at least the Gym Leaders were still depicted as being very competent without making Ash look bad, not to mention Ash definitely did much better there than in the Indigo League.

And yeah, I've already got a pretty good idea of how BW was bad news when Ash and Pikachu managed to mistake Iris for an Axew, despite her clearly not even looking like one (and most of all, she wasn't even disguised. The only other time Ash mistook a human for a Pokémon was with Officer Jenny in that wildlife preserve and him thinking she was a Chansey back in Kanto, and even there, it's at least justified due to her being largely obscured by bushes and her wearing a Chansey hat as part of a sting operation), that and losing to a clear rookie trainer in the form of Trip and later him losing to someone who by all accounts was so idiotic he made even Ash in that saga, who came across as even stupider than Original Series Ash in many respects, seem like a genius by comparison (and him getting a worse rank than before, thus potentially rivaling AG in sheer badness). Probably the few good things about that saga is the fact that, whether Iris was at all good or not, she at least averted the whole girl characterization mess May, Dawn, and to a certain extent Serena fell victim to, and it also featured the permanent return of Charizard to Ash's party after training at Charcific Valley.

Actually, it's gonna have to wait until morning. Got to work and found out I'm having to train a new person tonight, so I can't just play on my laptop all night :/ but I'll reply when I get home.

Haha maybe so! Either way, I'll give you a proper reply tonight.

More a case of "remembering to reply, but at times when I can't connect to PokeCommunity" but I'll try to remember to reply when I get home from the store.

I don't remember any jarring drops like in Gen VI (which were in part thanks to the 3D).

After today's trailer, there's speculation that we might be able to travel to Kanto as the building that Ryuki is talking to the player at resembles the Vermilion gym.