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Baton Pass Discussion Thread (Disclaimer: Smogon tiers only) (Update: it has been nerfed)

KorpiklaaniVodka

KorpiklaaniVodka

KID BUU PAWAA
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    • Wanna update this btw:

    Can someone just briefly update me on where the majority stand now?

    This thread + irc has been a little flimsy at times.

    We agree that nothing needs to be done for GSC.

    It seems like we agree that for ADV, for now, nothing needs to be done, though BP in relation to Smeargle might be a "thing" to consider? But still, general feeling is don't do anything.

    For DPP, GlisPass is the main issue. We have to discuss whether doing a BP + Speed ban is desirable.

    For BW, we have come to the agreement that BP chains are an issue, but we haven't settled on how to deal with it. Lavos also made a thread addressing BW BP specifically.

    For ORAS, we agree that something more needs to be done to BP. Some people (like mcmeghan / am / aim on the council), want to ban BP entirely. Some people want to ban BP + any speed boost. Others want to ban BP + speed boost + anything else.

    There is a strong chance that the ban / nerf applied in ORAS will also apply to BW, but this isn't confirmed.

    Have I summarized general sentiments across the generations correctly? Is there something I am mistaken about? Is there more detail to be added?
    Click to expand...
     
    Anti

    Anti

    return of the king
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    • i am frankly very surprised that anyone agrees with my position to ban the move lol.

    i do agree with the above post though and think that, barring a ban of the move itself, bp is so easy to maneuver around clauses and other restrictions (xy/oras is a painful lesson in this) that a weird complex ban is pretty much inevitable.
     

    2Fruit

    Aka 2Fruit
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    • Seen Apr 1, 2019
    And then there is another thing. Usually an argument against banning something like a pokemon is that it is healthy because it counters another threat and prevents it from being too OP (Like megagross). But that's not the case with baton pass. Baton pass doesn't counter anything in general, it's that thing that counters baton pass.

    What I'm trying to say is that banning Baton Pass, though yes it's further limiting play, can't have negative effects on the metagame.
     
    Megan

    Megan

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    I don't think that BP should be banned, considering that it's the only passive momentum gaining move, which allows it to circumvent both Pursuit and Sucker Punch. But I agree that something has to be done in order to restrict its ability to pass on stat boosts. Maybe something like you're only allowed to pass one boost (which also includes subs), but you're at least allowed to pick whatever stat boost you want to pass to the next mon.

    Although, if we want to include cartridges, then that's not going to work, because GF isn't going to change BPs usage and in that case, banning the move might be the best thing to do.
     
    Nah

    Nah

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    I was wondering how you could nerf it even more without banning it, but there's that. Little surprised that they'd implement a complex ban like that since the Smogon community has always seemed averse to complex bans....
     
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