Red/Blue remakes on 3DS

Loving the ideas that have been getting put out here. I think I would make use of that clock and where if you start a game at a certain time and show up late, Oak gives you Pikachu. Difference here from Pokemon Yellow is that it only happens if you start at a certain time and the other Kanto starters are available to you even if you start with one of them (as well as Pikachu in Viridian Forest).

Cerberus87 said:

My ideal Kanto remake would be very barebones:

- Kanto in full 3D.
- 151 Pokémon + new evos, unrestricted during the main game. Rosters updated to make up for it. Bruno with Steelix, Agatha with Crobat, Giovanni and Blue with Rhyperior. Maybe mix some Yellow and RB rosters. Give Yellow rosters to Blaine (and maybe Giovanni), RB rosters to everyone else.
- Day/night cycle.
- Cinnabar Island bigger and with a visible volcano.
- No customization. Red is iconic. Leaf renamed to Green (Blue in Japanese) as in Adventures. Change Blue's dialogue to Green a bit to imply he looks down on her for being a girl, as a bully like him naturally would.
- Sevii Islands are retconned to Orange Archipelago, with a small four gym quest as in the anime, and an additional Team Rocket quest that ties into the Johto story.
- Lugia and Ho-Oh are catchable in the postgame and require the birds and beasts to be in your possession, respectively. The National Pokédex would trigger the beasts roaming around Kanto. Team Rocket does NOT interact with any legendaries. (this would probably throw canon to the wind, though, because the beasts are supposed to be dormant until the Johto story, but generally anything that deals with legendaries other than the cover ones isn't canon anyway)
- Leave Mewtwo be, as in RBY and FRLG. The allure of Mewtwo is that its always doing it's own thing, completely unbound.

Sevii Islands is the biggest thing I'd change, because the gem quest isn't necessary in a future remake and the old fans would love to be able to visit the Orange Archipelago in the game. The Orange League itself isn't necessary, because in GSC and HGSS you beat the 8 Kanto gyms and there's no league afterwards, so the prize for beating the postgame would be the E4 rematch and admission into the postgame battle facility, which could work as an Orange League of sorts.

I need to mention that these gyms would be harder than the 8 Kanto gyms. Each would focus on: Doubles, Triples, Rotation, and even Inverse Battles!

But really, the postgame would depend a lot on when the games would be released. Because you'd have to acommodate a lot of legendaries, like ORAS did. You could have all sorts of legendaries, because having them in the game isn't canon. For example, Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem are in ORAS, but we know from XY dialogue that the events in the new timeline happened more or less in the same way as in the original one, so the Tao trio, at first glance, had no business being in Hoenn. The Lugia thing would just be a way to "canonize" its role as master of the bird trio, even though canonically Lugia is supposed to be resting deep inside the Whirl Islands.

I'd probably have to fit Mega Evolution somewhere in there. Maybe you get your starter's Mega Stone from Mr. Fuji, like in Origins, and then the postgame quest involves it somehow, letting you acquire a Mega Ring at the very end of it. Then the E4 and Champion would have Mega Evolutions of their own. Introduce Mega Lapras, Mega Machamp and Mega Dragonite.

Click to expand...

I like this remake idea, Cerberus. I think it's a good compromise.

I'd also change the Route 5 Daycare into being a full breeding one (as it should've been in FRLG), and have Berry Pots similar to HGSS. Of course, Mossy Rock would be added to Viridian Forest, Ice Rock to Seafoam Islands, and a new area to the Power Plant for Leafeon/Glaceon/Magnezone.

While the game wouldn't be likely to have customization, I wouldn't mind seeing a limited form of it that let you dress in Red and Green's older outfits (including Green's beta outfit). The unselected PC should also have a secondary rival role (as standard with almost all games released since RSE), maybe with a team based on that of Green's Adventures counterpart.

Now, one thing that would have to get a major overhaul even in the most minimalist remake is Celadon Game Corner. Game Corners are obviously a thing of the past, and while they could just stick Voltorb Flip in there again, the complete makeover Mauville City received in ORAS suggests that they might do something different.

One idea I had earlier in the thread was a video arcade. The slot machines would be replaced with arcade games with various minigames, including Pikachu's Beach from Yellow. It could even include ports of the old Pokémon Pinball game and Pokémon Mini games. Doing well in the minigames would get you coins/tokens in return, which could then be exchanged for prizes (like in the old Game Corner). The Gambler trainer class would be entirely replaced with a true Gamer class based on stereotypical gamers. The Celadon Team Rocket sidequest would otherwise play out the same.

There should also be more allusions/references to Gen 2. I'd like to see several references to Johto being in the west, and I wouldn't mind seeing foreshadowing of things like Viridian Trainer House, the Magnet Train, Lavender Radio Tower, and of course, Team Rocket's resurrection. The following characters should have appearances: Archer, Ariana, Petrel, Proton, Silver, Eusine, Karen, Janine, and maybe, Clair.

The following characters from later games should also have appearances: Prof. Rowan (was canonically in Kanto at the time; could give you a Sinnoh starter), Looker (as the Global Police agent on the SS Anne), Bertha (is probably related to Agatha), Brawly (friends with Bruno), and a few others. (None of which include Cynthia, don't worry. :P)

Cerberus87 said:

My ideal Kanto remake would be very barebones:

- Kanto in full 3D.
- 151 Pokémon + new evos, unrestricted during the main game. Rosters updated to make up for it. Bruno with Steelix, Agatha with Crobat, Giovanni and Blue with Rhyperior. Maybe mix some Yellow and RB rosters. Give Yellow rosters to Blaine (and maybe Giovanni), RB rosters to everyone else.
- Day/night cycle.
- Cinnabar Island bigger and with a visible volcano.

…

Click to expand...

For me, these are all obvious things that should definitely get put into the remakes. And, yes, GameFreak should totally give some random Trainers their teams from one of the other games set in Kanto or a mix thereof!

Cerberus87 said:

…

- No customization. Red is iconic. Leaf renamed to Green (Blue in Japanese) as in Adventures. Change Blue's dialogue to Green a bit to imply he looks down on her for being a girl, as a bully like him naturally would.

…

Click to expand...

I wouldn't throw character customization away altogether, but I agree that its inclusion would have to be done very carefully! Maybe players could have a separate avatar for when they're online like how users can give their PSS (Player Search System, not Pokémon Storage System) profiles avatars in ΩR/αS? In-game, BettyNewbie's idea would probably apply, though I wouldn't mind seeing some additional outfits! As for default names, their use has always been optional, but I wouldn't mind seeing conventional names listed as alternatives to typing in a different name of your own choice. And I wouldn't exactly say that Blue has ever been a bully, per se; it seems to me that Blue's more like the kind of person who is apathetic towards other individuals unless and until they've proved themselves to him that they're worthy opponents.

Cerberus87 said:

…

- Sevii Islands are retconned to Orange Archipelago, with a small four gym quest as in the anime, and an additional Team Rocket quest that ties into the Johto story.

…

Click to expand...

No, no, just no! Don't you even think about leaving the Sevii Islands out at sea with no life preserver! It's not that I wouldn't mind seeing the Orange Islands make an appearance in the games, its just that I'd rather have them show up in addition to the Sevii Islands! The two areas could have four gyms apiece, and that would make it so that the two archipelagos south of Kanto share a Pokémon League.

Cerberus87 said:

…

- Lugia and Ho-Oh are catchable in the postgame and require the birds and beasts to be in your possession, respectively. The National Pokédex would trigger the beasts roaming around Kanto. Team Rocket does NOT interact with any legendaries. (this would probably throw canon to the wind, though, because the beasts are supposed to be dormant until the Johto story, but generally anything that deals with legendaries other than the cover ones isn't canon anyway)
- Leave Mewtwo be, as in RBY and FRLG. The allure of Mewtwo is that its always doing it's own thing, completely unbound.

…

Click to expand...

Maybe the legendary beasts could just be starting to stir in preparation for their appearance in the ΩR/αS/X/Y timeline's equivalents of G/S/C/HG/SS? This would maintain the logical consistency of this fork of the Pokémon franchise's canon chronology. Not that it really matters, though, since players of FireRed and LeafGreen were able to catch one of the legendary beasts post-game (I believe which one became available depended on which starter you picked at the beginning of the game….)

Cerberus87 said:

…

Sevii Islands is the biggest thing I'd change, because the gem quest isn't necessary in a future remake and the old fans would love to be able to visit the Orange Archipelago in the game. The Orange League itself isn't necessary, because in GSC and HGSS you beat the 8 Kanto gyms and there's no league afterwards, so the prize for beating the postgame would be the E4 rematch and admission into the postgame battle facility, which could work as an Orange League of sorts.

…

Click to expand...

What makes you think that getting the Ruby and the Sapphire wouldn't be necessary to connect Kanto's PC infrastructure to that of Hoenn in Kanto remakes? All Kanto games since the introduction of the Hoenn region indicate either that Bill is impressed by what Lanette has done with the PSS (Pokémon Storage System, not Player Search System, in this case) in Hoenn or that he is proud to have worked with her to create the PC infrastructure shared by Kanto and Hoenn, depending on whether you are playing these games' English or Japanese versions, respectively. But even if Bill and Lanette did work together to create the PKMN-SS (Pokémon Storage System,) we don't know which parts of it they collaborated on! If the PKMN-SS's software was a joint effort, then its hardware would still have to be set up independently! In that case, a hard link between Kanto and Hoenn would still have to be established in order for their PKMN-SSes to communicate. According to the Sevii Islands parts of FR/LG's plot, doing so requires the Ruby and the Sapphire to be used as what I think is some kind of signal booster that allows such communication to bridge the large physical distance between Kanto and Hoenn.

Putting the Orange Islands into Kanto remakes would give GameFreak room to add more Gyms to them, but, like I said earlier, what I'd really like to see is a set of eight gyms split between the Orange Archipelago and the Sevii Islands. The resulting league could then either have its own Elite Four or share its E4 with Kanto and Johto (the fact that Kanto and Johto share the Indigo League makes an E4 rematch make sense in context.) Maybe defeating the Indigo League the first time around would give you access to either pre–Gen.-II Johto or the Orange and Sevii Islands and then doing so the second time around would unlock the other region? Would this, however, be augmented with the use of different Champions each time around. The first time around, you would, of course, face Blue since he would have just defeated Lance, whom you would face the second (and maybe the third?) time(s) around. Lance could probably stay on as Champion the third time around, but why shouldn't Green get a chance to be a Pokémon master in Blue's absence while he's off training for a grudge match against you?

Cerberus87 said:

…

I need to mention that these gyms would be harder than the 8 Kanto gyms. Each would focus on: Doubles, Triples, Rotation, and even Inverse Battles!

…

Click to expand...

Using gyms to give players more chances to face off against Gym Leaders in these kinds of battles would be awesome! Maybe we could see a Gym where three people share the role of Leader and they each contribute two Pokémon to a team that they use in a three-on-one Gym battle against you?

Cerberus87 said:

…

But really, the postgame would depend a lot on when the games would be released. Because you'd have to acommodate a lot of legendaries, like ORAS did. You could have all sorts of legendaries, because having them in the game isn't canon. For example, Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem are in ORAS, but we know from XY dialogue that the events in the new timeline happened more or less in the same way as in the original one, so the Tao trio, at first glance, had no business being in Hoenn. The Lugia thing would just be a way to "canonize" its role as master of the bird trio, even though canonically Lugia is supposed to be resting deep inside the Whirl Islands.

…

Click to expand...

I blame Hoopa for the excess of non-Hoenn legendaries in ΩR[/I}/αS. And maybe Lugia wakes up a little earlier in this fork of the timeline and just roost in the Whirl Islands? This would clear him to leave there to hunt or something.

Cerberus87 said:

…

I'd probably have to fit Mega Evolution somewhere in there. Maybe you get your starter's Mega Stone from Mr. Fuji, like in Origins, and then the postgame quest involves it somehow, letting you acquire a Mega Ring at the very end of it. Then the E4 and Champion would have Mega Evolutions of their own. Introduce Mega Lapras, Mega Machamp and Mega Dragonite.

…

Click to expand...

Didn't the case that Mr./Dr. Fugi gave Red in Pokémon Origins contain both Mega Charizardite X and a Mega Bracelet/Ring?

The Amazing Justin said:

Loving the ideas that have been getting put out here. I think I would make use of that clock and where if you start a game at a certain time and show up late, Oak gives you Pikachu. Difference here from Pokemon Yellow is that it only happens if you start at a certain time and the other Kanto starters are available to you even if you start with one of them (as well as Pikachu in Viridian Forest).

Click to expand...

________________________________________________________________

BettyNewbie said:

Cerberus87 said:

My ideal Kanto remake would be very barebones:

- Kanto in full 3D.
- 151 Pokémon + new evos, unrestricted during the main game. Rosters updated to make up for it. Bruno with Steelix, Agatha with Crobat, Giovanni and Blue with Rhyperior. Maybe mix some Yellow and RB rosters. Give Yellow rosters to Blaine (and maybe Giovanni), RB rosters to everyone else.
- Day/night cycle.
- Cinnabar Island bigger and with a visible volcano.
- No customization. Red is iconic. Leaf renamed to Green (Blue in Japanese) as in Adventures. Change Blue's dialogue to Green a bit to imply he looks down on her for being a girl, as a bully like him naturally would.
- Sevii Islands are retconned to Orange Archipelago, with a small four gym quest as in the anime, and an additional Team Rocket quest that ties into the Johto story.
- Lugia and Ho-Oh are catchable in the postgame and require the birds and beasts to be in your possession, respectively. The National Pokédex would trigger the beasts roaming around Kanto. Team Rocket does NOT interact with any legendaries. (this would probably throw canon to the wind, though, because the beasts are supposed to be dormant until the Johto story, but generally anything that deals with legendaries other than the cover ones isn't canon anyway)
- Leave Mewtwo be, as in RBY and FRLG. The allure of Mewtwo is that its always doing it's own thing, completely unbound.

Sevii Islands is the biggest thing I'd change, because the gem quest isn't necessary in a future remake and the old fans would love to be able to visit the Orange Archipelago in the game. The Orange League itself isn't necessary, because in GSC and HGSS you beat the 8 Kanto gyms and there's no league afterwards, so the prize for beating the postgame would be the E4 rematch and admission into the postgame battle facility, which could work as an Orange League of sorts.

I need to mention that these gyms would be harder than the 8 Kanto gyms. Each would focus on: Doubles, Triples, Rotation, and even Inverse Battles!

But really, the postgame would depend a lot on when the games would be released. Because you'd have to acommodate a lot of legendaries, like ORAS did. You could have all sorts of legendaries, because having them in the game isn't canon. For example, Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem are in ORAS, but we know from XY dialogue that the events in the new timeline happened more or less in the same way as in the original one, so the Tao trio, at first glance, had no business being in Hoenn. The Lugia thing would just be a way to "canonize" its role as master of the bird trio, even though canonically Lugia is supposed to be resting deep inside the Whirl Islands.

I'd probably have to fit Mega Evolution somewhere in there. Maybe you get your starter's Mega Stone from Mr. Fuji, like in Origins, and then the postgame quest involves it somehow, letting you acquire a Mega Ring at the very end of it. Then the E4 and Champion would have Mega Evolutions of their own. Introduce Mega Lapras, Mega Machamp and Mega Dragonite.

…

Click to expand...

I like this remake idea, Cerberus. I think it's a good compromise.

I'd also change the Route 5 Daycare into being a full breeding one (as it should've been in FRLG), and have Berry Pots similar to HGSS. Of course, Mossy Rock would be added to Viridian Forest, Ice Rock to Seafoam Islands, and a new area to the Power Plant for Leafeon/Glaceon/Magnezone.

…

Click to expand...

It'd be nice to have a full-blown Day Care Center on Route 5, but the one in the Sevii Islands should be kept since it's really very tedious to Fly back to a local port, take a Seagallop Ferry back to Kanto, Fly to either Cerulean City or Saffron City, and then (finally!) traipse down Route 5 to the Day Care. The ability to Fly directly to routes as players of OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire can would likely make this less frustrating, but I'd still like to have a Day Care closer by than the one in Kanto while waltzing through the Sevii Islands! And, yes, it would make sense for the Moss Rock, Ice Rock, and magnetically-charged area to be in those locations.

BettyNewbie said:

…

While the game wouldn't be likely to have customization, I wouldn't mind seeing a limited form of it that let you dress in Red and Green's older outfits (including Green's beta outfit). The unselected PC should also have a secondary rival role (as standard with almost all games released since RSE), maybe with a team based on that of Green's Adventures counterpart.

…

Click to expand...

Great idea! I like how you think!

BettyNewbie said:

…

Now, one thing that would have to get a major overhaul even in the most minimalist remake is Celadon Game Corner. Game Corners are obviously a thing of the past, and while they could just stick Voltorb Flip in there again, the complete makeover Mauville City received in ORAS suggests that they might do something different.

One idea I had earlier in the thread was a video arcade. The slot machines would be replaced with arcade games with various minigames, including Pikachu's Beach from Yellow. It could even include ports of the old Pokémon Pinball game and Pokémon Mini games. Doing well in the minigames would get you coins/tokens in return, which could then be exchanged for prizes (like in the old Game Corner). The Gambler trainer class would be entirely replaced with a true Gamer class based on stereotypical gamers. The Celadon Team Rocket side quest would otherwise play out the same.

…

Click to expand...

Yeah, losing the Game Corner entirely would wreak havoc with how players find Team Rocket's lair!

BettyNewbie said:

…

There should also be more allusions/references to Gen 2. I'd like to see several references to Johto being in the west, and I wouldn't mind seeing foreshadowing of things like Viridian Trainer House, the Magnet Train, Lavender Radio Tower, and of course, Team Rocket's resurrection. The following characters should have appearances: Archer, Ariana, Petrel, Proton, Silver, Eusine, Karen, Janine, and maybe, Clair.

The following characters from later games should also have appearances: Prof. Rowan (was canonically in Kanto at the time; could give you a Sinnoh starter), Looker (as the Global Police agent on the SS Anne), Bertha (is probably related to Agatha), Brawly (friends with Bruno), and a few others. (None of which include Cynthia, don't worry. :P)

Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing these connections out! I completely forgot about the Global Police officer on the S. S. Anne, Agatha and Bertha might be related since their east Asian names share several similarities, and NPCs have mentioned that Brawly and Bruno used to train together!

BettyNewbie said:

I like this remake idea, Cerberus. I think it's a good compromise.

I'd also change the Route 5 Daycare into being a full breeding one (as it should've been in FRLG), and have Berry Pots similar to HGSS. Of course, Mossy Rock would be added to Viridian Forest, Ice Rock to Seafoam Islands, and a new area to the Power Plant for Leafeon/Glaceon/Magnezone.

While the game wouldn't be likely to have customization, I wouldn't mind seeing a limited form of it that let you dress in Red and Green's older outfits (including Green's beta outfit). The unselected PC should also have a secondary rival role (as standard with almost all games released since RSE), maybe with a team based on that of Green's Adventures counterpart.

Now, one thing that would have to get a major overhaul even in the most minimalist remake is Celadon Game Corner. Game Corners are obviously a thing of the past, and while they could just stick Voltorb Flip in there again, the complete makeover Mauville City received in ORAS suggests that they might do something different.

One idea I had earlier in the thread was a video arcade. The slot machines would be replaced with arcade games with various minigames, including Pikachu's Beach from Yellow. It could even include ports of the old Pokémon Pinball game and Pokémon Mini games. Doing well in the minigames would get you coins/tokens in return, which could then be exchanged for prizes (like in the old Game Corner). The Gambler trainer class would be entirely replaced with a true Gamer class based on stereotypical gamers. The Celadon Team Rocket sidequest would otherwise play out the same.

There should also be more allusions/references to Gen 2. I'd like to see several references to Johto being in the west, and I wouldn't mind seeing foreshadowing of things like Viridian Trainer House, the Magnet Train, Lavender Radio Tower, and of course, Team Rocket's resurrection. The following characters should have appearances: Archer, Ariana, Petrel, Proton, Silver, Eusine, Karen, Janine, and maybe, Clair.

The following characters from later games should also have appearances: Prof. Rowan (was canonically in Kanto at the time; could give you a Sinnoh starter), Looker (as the Global Police agent on the SS Anne), Bertha (is probably related to Agatha), Brawly (friends with Bruno), and a few others. (None of which include Cynthia, don't worry. :P)

Click to expand...

Let's say that GF keeps Gen I remakes (plus Gen VII) in the same timeline as ORAS...then Looker being in Hoenn would have to be after whatever happened to him in Kanto seeing how in ORAS he has amnesia and we have no clue what happened to him. I wouldn't mind Cynthia appearing though...she's more likable than Looker imo (there's got to be more GP Agents than that guy). I don't expect the Hoenn champions appearing though...since they take place around the same time unless if one is a few months/days before or after the other (like seems to be the case with HGSS and Pt seeing how it's snow in Sinnoh at the time of Pt but it's fall in Johto at the time of HGSS). I guess they could leave out Cynthia and give some love the lesser loved Champions...Alder, Iris (well pre-champion), and Diantha...maybe add Wallace (pre-champion most likely) here if there is a difference in exact days between ORAS and this theoretically Kanto remake, seeing how none of those have appeared outside of their games.

RandomDSdevel said:

No, no, just no! Don't you even think about leaving the Sevii Islands out at sea with no life preserver! It's not that I wouldn't mind seeing the Orange Islands make an appearance in the games, its just that I'd rather have them show up in addition to the Sevii Islands! The two areas could have four gyms apiece, and that would make it so that the two archipelagos south of Kanto share a Pokémon League.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting idea. The key is to have something much more substantial and fleshed out than what FRLG had.

RandomDSdevel said:

Maybe the legendary beasts could just be starting to stir in preparation for their appearance in the ΩR/αS/X/Y timeline's equivalents of G/S/C/HG/SS[/I? This would maintain the logical consistency of this fork of the Pokémon franchise's canon chronology.

Click to expand...

This could be how Eusine appears in the games. Have him appear in Celadon City (his hometown, based on dialog from Crystal) and mention his interest in Suicune and how the Beasts have been spotted in Kanto. After you're done speaking to him, they'll start roaming.

RandomDSdevel said:

What makes you think that getting the Ruby and the Sapphire wouldn't be necessary to connect Kanto's PC infrastructure to that of Hoenn in Kanto remakes? All Kanto games since the introduction of the Hoenn region indicate either that Bill is impressed by what Lanette has done with the PSS (Pokémon Storage System, not Player Search System, in this case) in Hoenn or that he is proud to have worked with her to create the PC infrastructure shared by Kanto and Hoenn, depending on whether you are playing these games' English or Japanese versions, respectively. But even if Bill and Lanette did work together to create the PKMN-SS (Pokémon Storage System,) we don't know which parts of it they collaborated on! If the PKMN-SS's software was a joint effort, then its hardware would still have to be set up independently! In that case, a hard link between Kanto and Hoenn would still have to be established in order for their PKMN-SSes to communicate. According to the Sevii Islands parts of FR/LG's plot, doing so requires the Ruby and the Sapphire to be used as what I think is some kind of signal booster that allows such communication to bridge the large physical distance between Kanto and Hoenn.

Click to expand...

While that works in the context of the story, it makes for terrible gameplay. HGSS could freely trade with DPP from the get-go (even if it was with non-Regional Dex Pokémon), and the same goes for XY and ORAS (with the exception of ORAS-exclusives like Cosplay Pikachu and the new Megas). Besides, Gen 1 remakes will more than likely happen in Gen 7, so they won't even be in the same Generation as the newest Hoenn games.

RandomDSdevel said:

The first time around, you would, of course, face Blue since he would have just defeated Lance, whom you would face the second (and maybe the third?) time(s) around. Lance could probably stay on as Champion the third time around, but why shouldn't Green get a chance to be a Pokémon master in Blue's absence while he's off training for a grudge match against you?

Click to expand...

No matter what happens, I'd like to see how Lance became Champion and how Blue took over Viridian Gym. I'd also like to see Lorelei and Agatha get send-offs that treat their characters with respect and open them up for appearances later on in future games (the postgame Lugia story I posted earlier in this thread is an excellent one for Lorelei). We'd also see Karen appear and learn more about her and how she joined the Elite Four later on.

(Based on her similarities with Agatha, and the fact that her team is comprised entirely of Kanto-native Pokémon, I'd say Karen's from Kanto, probably Lavender Town or Celadon City. The Psychic Clown, on the other hand, is probably from Johto, and I say screw him. He's not worth fleshing out, to be honest.)

RandomDSdevel said:

I blame Hoopa for the excess of non-Hoenn legendaries in ΩR[/I}/αS. And maybe Lugia wakes up a little earlier in this fork of the timeline and just roost in the Whirl Islands? This would clear him to leave there to hunt or something.

Click to expand...

Well, the anime treated the Shamouti Island and Whirl Islands Lugias as two different Pokémon, and since we're already borrowing from the anime, there's always that excuse if it comers to it.

RandomDSdevel said:

It'd be nice to have a full-blown Day Care Center on Route 5, but the one in the Sevii Islands should be kept since it's really very tedious to Fly back to a local port, take a Seagallop Ferry back to Kanto, Fly to either Cerulean City or Saffron City, and then (finally!) traipse down Route 5 to the Day Care. The ability to Fly directly to routes as players of OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire can would likely make this less frustrating, but I'd still like to have a Day Care closer by than the one in Kanto while waltzing through the Sevii Islands!

Click to expand...

Well, I didn't say anything about ditching the other Day Care. The main thing is to have a place where you can breed before beating the Elite Four.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Let's say that GF keeps Gen I remakes (plus Gen VII) in the same timeline as ORAS...then Looker being in Hoenn would have to be after whatever happened to him in Kanto seeing how in ORAS he has amnesia and we have no clue what happened to him.

Click to expand...

Well, there's an easy explanation for that, albeit a dark one--The SS Anne wrecked on its way to either Slateport or Lilycove (possibly caught in Hoenn's weather wars), and Looker hit his head, fell overboard, and washed up onto the shore of the Battle Resort (hence the reason why he had amnesia). This also explains why we never saw the SS Anne again (not even in Gen 2, where the SS Aqua replaced it).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I wouldn't mind Cynthia appearing though...she's more likable than Looker imo (there's got to be more GP Agents than that guy).

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She was in every single DS main series game, including ones she had no business being in. She needs to take a break and let other characters have the spotlight for a change. I honestly don't want to see or hear about her again until Gen 4 remakes. (Which won't happen for a long time.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I guess they could leave out Cynthia and give some love the lesser loved Champions...Alder, Iris (well pre-champion), and Diantha...maybe add Wallace (pre-champion most likely) here if there is a difference in exact days between ORAS and this theoretically Kanto remake, seeing how none of those have appeared outside of their games.

Click to expand...

While we don't know how many years exactly separate Gen 1 from Gen 5, Iris probably isn't any older than a toddler, either way. That being said, it might be cute to see Drayden and a very young Iris appear at either the Indigo Plateau or even the Fan Club in Saffron City and portray Iris as being a huge admirer of Lance (even to the point of crushing on him).

Wallace definitely deserves more love, and if Cynthia could appear in HGSS, then I don't see any problem with him being in Gen 1 remakes. I wouldn't be opposed to putting a Contest Hall in the islands, where we could see him, along with Daisy Oak (who was said to be a star coordinator in FRLG), Jasmine, Whitney, and Pryce.

As for Alder and Diantha... We'll, they're still better than Cynthia. Maybe appearing in some other games would help flesh them out better (especially the latter).

BettyNewbie said:

That's an interesting idea. The key is to have something much more substantial and fleshed out than what FRLG had.



This could be how Eusine appears in the games. Have him appear in Celadon City (his hometown, based on dialog from Crystal) and mention his interest in Suicune and how the Beasts have been spotted in Kanto. After you're done speaking to him, they'll start roaming.



While that works in the context of the story, it makes for terrible gameplay. HGSS could freely trade with DPP from the get-go (even if it was with non-Regional Dex Pokémon), and the same goes for XY and ORAS (with the exception of ORAS-exclusives like Cosplay Pikachu and the new Megas). Besides, Gen 1 remakes will more than likely happen in Gen 7, so they won't even be in the same Generation as the newest Hoenn games.



No matter what happens, I'd like to see how Lance became Champion and how Blue took over Viridian Gym. I'd also like to see Lorelei and Agatha get send-offs that treat their characters with respect and open them up for appearances later on in future games (the postgame Lugia story I posted earlier in this thread is an excellent one for Lorelei). We'd also see Karen appear and learn more about her and how she joined the Elite Four later on.

(Based on her similarities with Agatha, and the fact that her team is comprised entirely of Kanto-native Pokémon, I'd say Karen's from Kanto, probably Lavender Town or Celadon City. The Psychic Clown, on the other hand, is probably from Johto, and I say screw him. He's not worth fleshing out, to be honest.)



Well, the anime treated the Shamouti Island and Whirl Islands Lugias as two different Pokémon, and since we're already borrowing from the anime, there's always that excuse if it comers to it.



Well, I didn't say anything about ditching the other Day Care. The main thing is to have a place where you can breed before beating the Elite Four.



Well, there's an easy explanation for that, albeit a dark one--The SS Anne wrecked on its way to either Slateport or Lilycove (possibly caught in Hoenn's weather wars), and Looker hit his head, fell overboard, and washed up onto the shore of the Battle Resort (hence the reason why he had amnesia). This also explains why we never saw the SS Anne again (not even in Gen 2, where the SS Aqua replaced it).



She was in every single DS main series game, including ones she had no business being in. She needs to take a break and let other characters have the spotlight for a change. I honestly don't want to see or hear about her again until Gen 4 remakes. (Which won't happen for a long time.)



While we don't know how many years exactly separate Gen 1 from Gen 5, Iris probably isn't any older than a toddler, either way. That being said, it might be cute to see Drayden and a very young Iris appear at either the Indigo Plateau or even the Fan Club in Saffron City and portray Iris as being a huge admirer of Lance (even to the point of crushing on him).

Wallace definitely deserves more love, and if Cynthia could appear in HGSS, then I don't see any problem with him being in Gen 1 remakes. I wouldn't be opposed to putting a Contest Hall in the islands, where we could see him, along with Daisy Oak (who was said to be a star coordinator in FRLG), Jasmine, Whitney, and Pryce.

As for Alder and Diantha... We'll, they're still better than Cynthia. Maybe appearing in some other games would help flesh them out better (especially the latter).

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Speaking of Lance admirers I would like to see Clair make a cameo. Of course if they add Drayden and Iris too that'll practically mean a Dragon specialist convention...minus Drake and Drasna...but you know the E4 never go out...

I also thought of that morbid idea (due to a certain other canon)...and considering what happened to the ship in the anime and special (irc)...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Speaking of Lance admirers I would like to see Clair make a cameo. Of course if they add Drayden and Iris too that'll practically mean a Dragon specialist convention...minus Drake and Drasna...but you know the E4 never go out...

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I've suggested having Clair appear, myself. Maybe, she could appear at the Indigo Plateau as well, or even somewhere in the islands wondering where her cousin is (who would be off with Lorelei dealing with Team Rocket).

I'd try to reverse that trend of E4 members never appearing anywhere outside of their rooms. All of Gen 1's Elites would appear in the postgame (with Lorelei and Lance playing a major role), and Karen and Bertha would also make appearances, too. Not so sure about Drake and Drasna, though (the latter would be more appropriate in a Gen 4 remake).

Another one we could possibly see is Malva. It was never stated in XY where she came from, and she has similarities in appearance to Lorelei, so the two could very well be sisters or at least, cousins. We could depict her having a falling out with Lorelei (or whoever), which causes her to leave Sevii/Orange for Kalos and (eventually) join Team Flare.

Wouldn't it be a shocker if Malva is actually Lorelei herself?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Wouldn't it be a shocker if Malva is actually Lorelei herself?

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Not going there, sorry. :|

If Malva and Lorelei are related GF should introduce a third person who is an electric specialist E4 (Gen VII region) who is related to them too and have all three could play a role in the capture of one of the three birds.

Uh...where did that idea come from?

Given that Malva is a Fire-type specialist and Lorelei is even seen in an icy cave in FRLG, I can't see this as anything to take seriously.

Pendraflare said:

Uh...where did that idea come from?

Given that Malva is a Fire-type specialist and Lorelei is even seen in an icy cave in FRLG, I can't see this as anything to take seriously.

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Who's idea are you referring to? (If it's ORAS', then I agree... It's ridiculous and would ruin both characters.)

Lorelei and Malva have similarities in appearance, so it's a possibility that they might be related. Them specializing in different types doesn't mean much because relatives don't all have to specialize in the same type. Considering that neither character has any known family members so far, this would be a huge leap in character development for both.

BettyNewbie said:

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OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

…I wouldn't mind Cynthia appearing though...she's more likable than Looker imo (there's got to be more GP Agents than that guy). …

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She was in every single DS main series game, including ones she had no business being in. She needs to take a break and let other characters have the spotlight for a change. I honestly don't want to see or hear about her again until Gen 4 remakes. (Which won't happen for a long time.)

…

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Off-Topic: Yeah, I definitely agree that Cynthia shouldn't have appeared in Unova! Her portrayal there gives her character no respect whatsoever! Getting rid of most of the aura of mystique that she possessed in Generation IV was a horrible idea on GameFreak's part, and I'd like to see this remedied when Generation V's remakes come around. She should either be removed or rewritten! But that's a topic for another day…unless she appears in Kanto remakes, too? Though what she'd be doing in Kanto, I honestly have no idea.

RandomDSdevel said:

Off-Topic: Yeah, I definitely agree that Cynthia shouldn't have appeared in Unova! Her portrayal there gives her character no respect whatsoever! Getting rid of most of the aura of mystique that she possessed in Generation IV was a horrible idea on GameFreak's part, and I'd like to see this remedied when Generation V's remakes come around. She should either be removed or rewritten! But that's a topic for another day…unless she appears in Kanto remakes, too? Though what she'd be doing in Kanto, I honestly have no idea.

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Her appearance in BW (and to a lesser extent, HGSS) was nothing more than pure fanservice. Someone, somewhere at GF found her character to be extremely marketable (first female Champion, very beautiful, has a team full of popular, highly marketable Pokémon like Garchomp, Milotic, Lucario, and Togekiss) and decided to stuff her into as many games as possible, usually at the expense of other, less popular characters (like Lance, Wallace, and any E4 Member).

Cynthia is Pokémon's Special Snowflake Token Strong Woman. She is this tall, beautiful woman who is perfect in every single way, with a perfect team (both type coverage-wise and IV-wise) and perfect characterization. She has no flaws, always says the right things, and never makes any mistakes. She is positioned as the Ultimate Strong Female Role Model, even when she has absolutely no personality and nothing about her that is even remotely interesting or distinctive beyond "female Champion." (And, fandom has lapped it all up, if you ask me.)

I'm glad she was excluded from XY and ORAS, and I hope we never see her or hear of her again outside of DPP remakes. It's time to let other characters have the spotlight for a change.

Well we're bound to her about her in BW/B2W2 remakes too.

Cynthia does have character we know she is a woman who is interested in history and is helpful to people (she's like a female Lance or Steven), plus we know more about her life than most characters (like she has a sister and we also see her grandparents and that she is a messy person...all stuff mentioned in Gen IV.) I would say that the only other characters we know best are Blue, Lance, Clair, Steven (more so in ORAS), and Alder. Most of those are champions and two are champions...with one of those being both xD.

Anyways Kanto doesn't fit Cynthia well...there is no mystic in Kanto for her to look into. It's a tech region with a trio of birds and a clone...Mew maybe, but I don't know if it'll get the Deoxys-ORAS treatment (I just noticed that Deoxys' name can be spelled by games or things (like episodes or tm'ed game names) connected to Gen VI... DE(Delta Episode/Delta Emerald), O (Omega Ruby), X,Y, S (Sapphire the original of Alpha Sapphire) . There is in Johto and Unova (there is in Kalos and Hoenn too but alas she needed a break). Also given that Iris and Diantha aren't anymore interesting than Cynthia...well of course she will be the best known female (she's a champion thus her being on the best known characters list). I would dare say the least popular champions (in no particular order) are Wallace, Diantha, Lance, Alder, and Iris (thus the most popular being Cynthia, Blue, and Steven.) Also why only criticism for Cynthia? Irc Crasher Wake appeared in both HGSS and either BW or B2W2...Also Blue was in danger of being the next Cynthia if he had popped up in XY...which the game made it seem like he was. Also Blue's grandfather oddly appeared in Sinnoh...at least they finally got breaks.

Anyways on topic I think that Blue's champion room will keep it's Gen I/III design similar to how Steven's (and the rest of the E4's) was very similar to the original.

I would like Blue's champion team to be...Starter, fossil you didn't get, Eeveelution (most Umbreon), Alakazam, Pidgeot, Porygon-Z. Maybe Blue's Mega will be random too seeing how he like's strong mons he might've given each on a Mega stone. Also he should get all 31 IV's due to his like for strong mons (in return though our starter should also have perfect IV's.)

Well we're bound to her about her in BW/B2W2 remakes too.

Cynthia does have character we know she is a woman who is interested in history and is helpful to people (she's like a female Lance or Steven), plus we know more about her life than most characters (like she has a sister and we also see her grandparents and that she is a messy person...all stuff mentioned in Gen IV.) I would say that the only other characters we know best are Blue, Lance, Clair, Steven (more so in ORAS), and Alder. Most of those are champions and two are champions...with one of those being both xD.

Anyways Kanto doesn't fit Cynthia well...there is no mystic in Kanto for her to look into. It's a tech region with a trio of birds and a clone...Mew maybe, but I don't know if it'll get the Deoxys-ORAS treatment (I just noticed that Deoxys' name can be spelled by games or things (like episodes or tm'ed game names) connected to Gen VI... DE(Delta Episode/Delta Emerald), O (Omega Ruby), X,Y, S (Sapphire the original of Alpha Sapphire) . There is in Johto and Unova (there is in Kalos and Hoenn too but alas she needed a break). Also given that Iris and Diantha aren't anymore interesting than Cynthia...well of course she will be the best known female (she's a champion thus her being on the best known characters list). I would dare say the least popular champions (in no particular order) are Wallace, Diantha, Lance, Alder, and Iris (thus the most popular being Cynthia, Blue, and Steven.) Also why only criticism for Cynthia? Irc Crasher Wake appeared in both HGSS and either BW or B2W2...Also Blue was in danger of being the next Cynthia if he had popped up in XY...which the game made it seem like he was. Also Blue's grandfather oddly appeared in Sinnoh...at least they finally got breaks.

Anyways on topic I think that Blue's champion room will keep it's Gen I/III design similar to how Steven's (and the rest of the E4's) was very similar to the original.

I would like Blue's champion team to be...Starter, fossil you didn't get, Eeveelution (most Umbreon), Alakazam, Pidgeot, Porygon-Z. Maybe Blue's Mega will be random too seeing how he like's strong mons he might've given each on a Mega stone. Also he should get all 31 IV's due to his like for strong mons (in return though our starter should also have perfect IV's.)

Uhh, I think you accidentally duplicated your post. ~_~

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Well we're bound to her about her in BW/B2W2 remakes too.

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Not if she gets retconned out. >:)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Cynthia does have character we know she is a woman who is interested in history and is helpful to people, plus we know more about her life than most characters (like she has a sister and we also see her grandparents and that she is a messy person...all stuff mentioned in Gen IV.)

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If one of her character traits is "woman," that's already a bad sign. And, "interested in history" and "helpful to people" are beyond generic and describe countless other characters. What is so "cool" or "interesting" about her?

The only reason we even know so much about her to begin with is because GF kept putting her in so many games and shoving her down our throats, making her impossible to ignore or forget.

And, yes, "female Steven" (not Lance... he has too much personality) perfectly describes Cynthia, because she is as much of a vacant Mary Sue as he is a vacant Gary Stu. Steven collects rocks and has a tough team, big whoop. (ORAS did flesh him out better, I'll admit, but he's still pretty boring. Still prefer Wallace.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Also given that Iris and Diantha aren't anymore interesting than Cynthia...well of course she will be the best known female (she's a champion thus her being on the best known characters list).

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You realize that a female character doesn't need to be a Champion to be interesting or worthy of being fleshed out, right? Being a "mere" E4 member didn't stop more people from liking Malva than Diantha, after all.

If you give other characters a chance in the spotlight, then they will become better-known and more recognizable... But, you actually have to give them that chance, first.

Diantha and (to a lesser extent) Iris backfired because they were cut from the same Generic Role Model mold as Cynthia, yet lacked her novelty (so they weren't marketed nearly as heavily). The next female Champion would be better off as a Blue-type character or even a straight-up villain, someone who was flawed, made mistakes, and had real, interesting character traits.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I would dare say the least popular champions (in no particular order) are Wallace, Diantha, Lance, Alder, and Iris (thus the most popular being Cynthia, Blue, and Steven.)

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Which is a crying shame, because Lance and Wallace > Steven and Cynthia, IMO. Fandom loves its generic "badasses," I guess.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Also why only criticism for Cynthia? Irc Crasher Wake appeared in both HGSS and either BW or B2W2...Also Blue was in danger of being the next Cynthia if he had popped up in XY...which the game made it seem like he was. Also Blue's grandfather oddly appeared in Sinnoh...at least they finally got breaks.

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Crasher Wake was never shoved down our throats as this most awesome, beautiful, and perfect Role Model Trainer. In fact, I had honestly forgotten that he had appeared in HGSS and B2W2 (outside of the PWT).

As for Blue, well, he's existed since Generation 1, so it's not surprising that he's appeared in many games. (In fact, every character introduced in Gen 1, sans two very unlucky women, has been in 4 or more Generations, mostly because of the sequel (GSC) and the remakes of both the prequel and sequel (FRLG and HGSS). Factor in the PWT, and most of them have been in every pre-3DS Generation.)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I would like Blue's champion team to be...Starter, fossil you didn't get, Eeveelution (most Umbreon), Alakazam, Pidgeot, Porygon-Z. Maybe Blue's Mega will be random too seeing how he like's strong mons he might've given each on a Mega stone. Also he should get all 31 IV's due to his like for strong mons (in return though our starter should also have perfect IV's.)

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Blue's (Round 1) team is unlikely to change that drastically, although I could see them giving him an Eeveelution as a nod to Yellow. His Mega would inevitably be his Starter (Charizard Y in the Red remake and Charizard X in the Blue remake).

Blue is also kind of a genetic badass though...as the genetic flawed badass is a thing...so all three most popular champions are...(actually you'll notice the rivals are the same as the champions with Blue and Silver getting more love over the hardworking Wally, the hyper active and persistent Barry, the clumsy but still trying her best Bianca).

Anyways Blue's rematch team should be Eeevelution, Tyranitar, Kanto starter, Metagross (hey if Cynthia can have Wallace's ace why not give Blue Steven's?), Garchomp, and Volcarona.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Blue is also kind of a genetic badass though...as the genetic flawed badass is a thing...so all three most popular champions are...(actually you'll notice the rivals are the same as the champions with Blue and Silver getting more love over the hardworking Wally, the hyper active and persistent Barry, the clumsy but still trying her best Bianca).

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I assume you meant "generic" instead of "genetic," right?

The difference between Blue/Silver and Cynthia/Steven is that they have personalities and flaws. They aren't always nice people, they don't always say or do the "right" thing, and they have intriguing backstories (especially in the case of Silver). There's more to their characters than just "likes history" or "collects rocks" or "owns strong Pokémon."

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Anyways Blue's rematch team should be Eeevelution, Tyranitar, Kanto starter, Metagross (hey if Cynthia can have Wallace's ace why not give Blue Steven's?), Garchomp, and Volcarona.

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That looks fine, although I was planning to give Giovanni a Garchomp on his rematch team. Maybe, Blue could have Hydreigon or Haxorus, instead?

What about Elite Four rematches? Here are my ideas:

Lorelei: Milotic/Froslass/Cloyster/Mamoswine/M-Lapras (Water or Water/Fairy)

Bruno: Scrafty/Lucario/Conkeldurr/Steelix/M-Machamp (Fighting)

Agatha: Spiritomb/Crobat/Chandelure/Mismagius/M-Gengar (Ghost/Poison)

Lance: Gyarados/Noivern/Serperior/Dragalge/M-Dragonite (Dragon/Fairy)

I actually see Lorelei getting Mega Cloyster instead of Mega Lapras.

Also speaking of Giovanni...how will they be able to handle the rematch with him since he leaves? I guess if we get access to Johto post game we may find him at the falls and battle him in a single rematch...with him having mons the same level as Red's HGSS team or least his GSC level team. Also since ORAS lacked rematches of any form (meaning the last rematches with Hoenn gym leaders were 11-10 years ago, not as bad as the Gen I Kanto gym leaders who don't have rematches at all (discounting HGSS rematches) but still bad) they may not return, not only that but Gen V and XY also lack proper rematches (Gen IV is the best at rematches with Pt (did DP have rematches too?) and HGSS).

I see more of their personality than that, likewise Blue isn't all jerk sue. Also I think know why Cynthia is probably not in XY timeline wise, seeing how she (along with Blue, hence why he's not in Kalos anymore) is participating in the PWT in Unova which seems to be the same time everything in Kalos is going on (unlike HGSS which seems to be the some time before Pt).

PWT isn't canon, me thinks.

I'd prefer it if Fairy-type was added to as few mons as possible. None of the Fairy mons interest me.