[日本語] Japanese Help/Discussion/Community Thread: Learn Japanese through Pokemon!

[Esper]

(Look! it's another of those posts)

Grammar lesson time.

Now I'll go over the basic structure of a sentence and teach you a simple example from which you can create other sentences.

Japanese uses a Subject-Object-Verb (SOV) pattern to form sentences. In English, and many other languages you might be familiar with, the general pattern is Subject-Verb-Object (SVO). An example of this in English would be "The bear eats ice cream." The bear is the subject, eats is the verb, and ice cream is the object. In Japanese the order would go something like "The bear ice cream eats." But don't worry too much about that right now. Just remember that the basic rule is that in Japanese the verb goes at the end of the sentence, not in the middle.

If you think that the sentence "The bear ice cream eats" is a little confusing then you're not alone. If someone really were to say that in English you might think they were trying to say that the bears are the ones getting eaten. In English we rely on context to understand who eats whom, that is, the order in which words are placed makes all the difference. In Japanese this is often also the case, but Japanese relies on markers to tell us what is doing an action, what is being acted upon, where the action is happening, and so on.

So let's bring in some Japanese now. Here are three Japanese words:

くま たべる アイスクリーム
("kuma" - bear) --- ("taberu" - eat) --- ("aisukuriimu" - ice cream)
​

Right now the words are in SVO form so let's change that to SOV form like it should be.

くま アイスクリーム たべる
("kuma" - bear) --- ("aisukuriimu" - ice cream) --- ("taberu" - eat)
​

That's better. Now, there's another difference between Japanese and your average European language: Japanese generally doesn't use spaces between words. So now that leaves us with:

くまアイスクリームたべる
​

Which looks a little messy. You can still see the words in there and they're in the right sequence, but you have to add something else to mark which words are which part of speech.

くまはアイスクリームをたべる
​

What I've done is add two kana to the sentence after the two nouns I have. First, about は.Its purpose is to mark which word is the topic. Before I continue there are some very important things to note at this point! I said that は marks the topic not the subject. The difference in meaning between these two words is subtle and they often overlap, but the simple explanation is that the topic is "the thing which we are talking about" and the subject is "the thing doing an action." As I said, one word can be both at the same time, but isn't always. This is more important in more complex sentences, but we're not getting into that just now. In our example sentence they are the same thing.

The other important thing to note is that when は is being used as a topic marker it is not pronounced "ha" but as "wa". It only changes when it's doing this and any other time it is pronounced normally as "ha." In transcribing Japanese it's normal to write "wa" instead of "ha" because it's the pronunciation which matters, but again it is は which is written and not わ.

The other marker I used is を. The pronunciation of this kana doesn't change, but it does vary from person to person. Some people pronounce it "wo" and some without the 'w' sound and like "o". (Note that you should always use を as a marker and never お regardless of how you pronounce it.) Unlike は which can be used separately from its job as a topic marker, を is almost exclusively used as a marker, in this case an object marker. In other words, を marks "the thing which is acted upon" or the thing which has something happen to it. Now let's go back to our sentence.

くまはアイスクリームをたべる
​

Let's break it down into its pieces. First we have くま (bear), the topic/subject, followed by は, the subject marker, then アイスクリーム (ice cream), the object, followed by を. Last is the verb, たべる (eat).

I wrote "bear" instead of "the bear" because Japanese does not use articles ("the" "a" and "an") so when you write くま it can mean "a bear" or "the bear" or just "bear". When we translate Japanese into English we usually add "the" and so on wherever English needs it and it's generally not too difficult to figure out.

So that's the basic structure of a sentence. You can mix and match the pieces to create new sentences. Here are a few:

ねこはアイスクリームをたべる
("neko" - cat)
"The cat eats ice cream."
​

ねこはアイスクリームをみる
("miru" - look, look at, see)
"The cat looks at ice cream."
​

ねこはくるまをみる
("kuruma" - car)
"The cat looks at the car."
​

Try it out

So now that you know the pattern you can try it out using a number of different words to form your own sentences. Try using some of these words and see what kind of sentences you can make:

(nouns)
いぬ - dog(s)
ねこ - cat(s)
くるま - car(s)
とり - bird(s)
わたし - I (when it's the subject), me (when it's the object)
あなた - you
やさい - vegetable(s)
ほん - book(s)
きのこ - mushroom(s)
みみ - ear(s)
コダック - Psyduck
ノコッチ - Dunsparce

(verbs)
みる - look, look at, see
たべる - eat
さわる - touch
よむ - read
てつだう - help, help out
あいする - love (in a romantic/platonic sense)

Enjoy!

 

[chaos11011]

Team Fail, go to Jisho and search Tetsudau. It means to help.

 

[Esper]

You can do this with Kana as you would Hira, right? IIRC, Kana is taught to the youth in primary school, then Hira is introduced in secondary school.

あなたはてつだうをわたし！
You help me!

Google Translate says, "You Tetsudau Me!" lolwtfbbq

Kana means both katakana (片仮名) and hiragana (平仮名), btw. And yes, you can use any noun or verb that makes sense grammatically. Obviously you couldn't use a verb like "sleep" because you can't "sleep something" ("I sleep the bed" doesn't work).

But anyway, when you're organizing your words you need to make sure your markers (は, を) are connected to the correct words. They need to come directly after the words they're marking.

あなたはてつだうをわたし！ has a couple of mistakes. The words I marked in blue are the nouns "you" (あなた) and "me" (わたし). You've got the first one right by putting は after it. That makes it the topic/subject. However, you marked the verb (てつだう) with を when you want to mark the object (わたし) with it instead. So I'll do a little shuffling for ya.

あなたはてつだうをわたし！
~ becomes ~
あなたはてつだうわたしを！

And don't forget to put the verb at the end of the sentence.

あなたはわたしをてつだう！

See also how the markers help space the sentence out? That might help you remember where they go. You'll still get "You tetsudau me" in Google, but if you were to use that word's kanji it should work fine. (あなたはわたしを手伝う！ if you want to try it)

 

[Katja]

Kana means both katakana (片仮名) and hiragana (平仮名), btw. And yes, you can use any noun or verb that makes sense grammatically. Obviously you couldn't use a verb like "sleep" because you can't "sleep something" ("I sleep the bed" doesn't work).

But anyway, when you're organizing your words you need to make sure your markers (は, を) are connected to the correct words. They need to come directly after the words they're marking.

あなたはてつだうをわたし！ has a couple of mistakes. The words I marked in blue are the nouns "you" (あなた) and "me" (わたし). You've got the first one right by putting は after it. That makes it the topic/subject. However, you marked the verb (てつだう) with を when you want to mark the object (わたし) with it instead. So I'll do a little shuffling for ya.

あなたはてつだうをわたし！
~ becomes ~
あなたはてつだうわたしを！

And don't forget to put the verb at the end of the sentence.

あなたはわたしをてつだう！

See also how the markers help space the sentence out? That might help you remember where they go. You'll still get "You tetsudau me" in Google, but if you were to use that word's kanji it should work fine. (あなたはわたしを手伝う！ if you want to try it)

Nice! Grammar is so hard for me. I've bought a new book that is helping me a lot though. ^^ I always remember, "put verb at the end!"

 

[Tyrantrum]

I've wanting to learn Japanese for a while. I think it's an interesting language, and being a Pokémon lover makes me want to learn it even more. I'm in. ;D

 

[Esper]

So I'm wondering. I could keep on posting these random lessons, which I don't mind doing, but if there's something in particular that anyone wants to learn I could try to focus on that as best I can, or at least on the foundations of whatever it is if it happens to be a little on the advanced side.

Of course, if it's too advanced I won't be able to do a thing since I'm not exactly fluent. D:

 

[chezhead]

I've been learning Japanese in school, and have pretty much got the Hiragana and Katakana alphabets down, but will look forward to the rest of this, especially sentence structure.

Also, what kanji will be covered? Will it be in the order of schooling?

I really only know the numbers from ichi to ichiman, as well as most of the basic ones such as water (水）、 Fire, （火）, and other ones (nihon, nihongo, nihon, hito, do, and other simple days of the week).

One tip to you guys learning this is that every little bit helps. While something like watching subbed anime instead of dubbed may not help a lot, it helps just the tiniest bit with native speaking, so you can see which instances sodesu and hai are used, and other pretty simple things. If you are bored in study hall or another place with pen and paper, practice some kanji. Label your homework with the class. Sugaku no shukudai, or 数学の宿題 is "Math Homework", which may help out. Just substitute sugaku with nihongo, and add no and a shukudai to the end to get your homework labeled with the correct Japanese sentence! Have assignment notebooks? Write down the classes in Japanese! ワークシート is just what it sounds like; a borrowed word for "Worksheet". "読んで'風と共に去りぬ'" is "Read 'Gone with the Wind'". Just replace the words in parentheses with the book you need to read, and label the pages in the kanji numbers!




As for Kanji, these are all the jōyō kanji, characters required for the level of fluency necessary to read newspapers and literature in Japanese.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/2230_Basic_Kanji.svg
Good luck.

For a simpler approach, check out this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kanji_by_concept It lists a lot of Kanji in groups which are among the same of its type, with colors and shapes in groups. This is nice if you want to expand your knowledge when teaching yourself.

Every little bit of practice and repetition helps. 継続は力なり。

Another quick tip: Remember that our language is a SVO language, which has Subjects first, verbs, then objects. Example: I ate a rice ball.. In japanese, this would be "僕-は-おにぎり-を-食べた。" Boku, the first bolded thing, is I, a subject. The second bolded item is Ongiri, rice ball, and is the object. Tabeta, eat, is a verb. This makes Japanese a SOV language, where the order is Subject, Object, then verb.

If you are going to japan or speaking some Japanese to someone, don't sweat it too much. If you know the basic vocabulary, you could easily convey "I eat sushi.", even if you get the order wrong. Imagine someone saying to you "I sushi eat!". You would get it, even if it didn't sound proper.

 

[Ru-Kun]

I have a few questions so please bear with me. First off are these sentances correct?
日本語を話すことができますI can speak Japanese.
日本語は話すことができません。I cannot speak Japanese.

When I use ことができません, do I use を or は to highlight the word 日本語.

My next question is, in Japanese how do you say "I need to"?

Also how do you say "I should"?

Finally how do you say "I have to"?

I don't want someone just to translate those short phrases but I want to know how to use them along with other verbs in Japanese. Lke these:
"I should eat" or
"I need to drink" or
"I have to go"

 

[Esper]

I have a few questions so please bear with me. First off are these sentances correct?
日本語を話すことができますI can speak Japanese.
日本語は話すことができません。I cannot speak Japanese.

Well, first off I could say that you're making the sentence more complicated than it really needs to be, but I think what you have is fine:

（私は）日本語を話すことができます。 （or できません）
Which would probably translate to something like "I'm (not) able to speak Japanese."

But if it were me I would simplify things.

（私は）日本語が話せます。
"I can speak Japanese."

In my version I used the potential form (meaning adding "can") of 話す by changing the す (su) ending to せる (seru)
[for anyone else reading, you switch the 'u' sound version to the 'e' sound version, like "mu" -> "me"]

My next question is, in Japanese how do you say "I need to"?

Also how do you say "I should"?

Finally how do you say "I have to"?

I don't want someone just to translate those short phrases but I want to know how to use them along with other verbs in Japanese. Lke these:
"I should eat" or
"I need to drink" or
"I have to go"

Well, "need" and "have to" and "must" are pretty much the same thing in terms of their meaning and don't have different ways of saying them in Japanese. Edit: Ignore that. I wasn't thinking properly when I wrote that.

If you wanted to say something like "I have to go" there are a few ways you can do it, but the differences are mostly to do with how formal or informal you want to be.

私は行かなければならない。
Literally, it's something like: "It won't do if I don't go." Or, more sensibly: "I must go." I've written it in plain, non-ます (masu) form, but if you're not used to that form then the polite form would be:
私は行かなければなりません。

There is also a different way you can go with.

行かなくてはいけない OR
行かなくてはならない
Please note tha the は is pronounced as "wa" in this case. It's also common to see an alternate version of these.

行かなくちゃいけない OR
行かなくちゃならない
And if so then you take off everything after ちゃ.until you're left with just 行かなくちゃ ("I must go" or probably more equivalent to "Gotta go!"). This version is more conversational and informal.

If you want to say "I should go" you would say something like: 私は行くべき。What you do is use the plain form of the verb and add べき (beki) to the end of it. One thing to keep in mind though. This version of "should" is used in the sense of what you're supposed to do, like going to school or brushing your teeth. If you want to suggest something to someone ("You should see that new movie!") then you use a totally different approach.

For suggestions you take the verb (or sometimes noun or adjective) and add 方がいい (ほうがいい / hou ga ii) to the end of it.

映画を見る方がいい
(えいがをみるほういい)
[eiga wo miru hou ga ii]

Literally, it's something like: "Choosing to see the movie is good." or even more literally "The direction (方) of seeing the movie is good."

You start with the regular sentence in its informal (non-'masu') form (in the example: 映画を見る) and add the 方がいい and that's all there really is to it.

I hope all of that was comprehensible. If not I'll try to explain better.

 

[NatureKeeper]

I mastered the Katakana before I knew this thread, but I face problems with Hiragana and Kanji, they are so complicated. I know a few Kana and err... also like 5 Kanji. SO, I'm joining in.

 

[chezhead]

I mastered the Katakana before I knew this thread, but I face problems with Hiragana and Kanji, they are so complicated. I know a few Kana and err... also like 5 Kanji. SO, I'm joining in.

I know I keep chiming in with my own help, even not being one of the teachers, but from my experience flash cards have been a great help. Making them yourself helps with the entire memorization as well, so just get some note cards or cut paper. Write the Hiragana Symbol on one side and the pronunciation or/and Katakana on the back. For Kanji, just write the kanji on the front and hiragana/katakana/romanji on the back.

 

[Alice]

I mastered the Katakana before I knew this thread, but I face problems with Hiragana and Kanji, they are so complicated. I know a few Kana and err... also like 5 Kanji. SO, I'm joining in.

Hiragana, and Katakana are almost exactly the same. In fact, Hiragana is by far the easier of the two, mainly because of the lack of extremely similar characters. For example: ノンソシツ

I know I keep chiming in with my own help, even not being one of the teachers, but from my experience flash cards have been a great help. Making them yourself helps with the entire memorization as well, so just get some note cards or cut paper. Write the Hiragana Symbol on one side and the pronunciation or/and Katakana on the back. For Kanji, just write the kanji on the front and hiragana/katakana/romanji on the back.

The actual teachers disappeared ages ago. This thread is only being kept alive by random people posting help out of the kindness of their hearts. So, if you would like to help, please post away.




Personally, I've had katakana/hiragana mastered for at least a year now, so I'd like to focus on grammar. It's really not all that hard to learn Kanji... I Just haven't really done it yet, as I have no way to use it (ie grammar).

 

[Esper]

The actual teachers disappeared ages ago. This thread is only being kept alive by random people posting help out of the kindness of their hearts. So, if you would like to help, please post away.

Goodness, yes. Please add anything you think will help. I feel a little guilty I haven't posted anything new in like two weeks. And on that note...

~*~*~*~
​

~It's time for another lesson~

Particles

Okay, more grammar time. This one has to do with particles. Particles are those parts of speech that let us string words together to make more complex sentences. In English you might take these examples.

The boy played in the park.
She gave an apple to me.

Particles let us know, among other things, direction, possession, and where something happens. In English some of the most common particles are of, in, at, to, with, and for. Unlike nouns and verbs which can usually translate fairly easily between languages, particles are much trickier. If you asked, for instance, what the Japanese word for "at" is I'd have to ask you which "at" you mean. There is the "at" that indicates place (I'm at the store), the "at" that indicates time (I went to the store at 3 o'clock), the "at" that indicates a state of being (I'm at ease), and so on.

There's some good news, however. In Japanese many of its most common particles are only one kana, and here are some of them:

[FONT=&quot]の で へ に[/FONT]

So, let's go over each of them. First is [FONT=&quot]の[/FONT].

Possession

[FONT=&quot]の[/FONT] indicates possession, or in other words that one thing belongs to another thing. In English it is more or less equivalent to of or the 's added to the end of words. In Japanese you use it by first taking the thing that is going the possessing. Then you add [FONT=&quot]の[/FONT] to the end of it, and after that the thing that is being possessed. Example time. How would we say "the school's students"?
(remember that Japanese doesn't use articles like "the")

[FONT=&quot]がっこう[/FONT] (school)
[FONT=&quot]せいと[/FONT] (student or pupil)

Answer: [FONT=&quot]がっこうのせいと[/FONT]. You start with [FONT=&quot]がっこう[/FONT], the thing doing the possessing (in this case, the school) followed by the particle, [FONT=&quot]の[/FONT], and finally the thing possessed, [FONT=&quot]せいと[/FONT].

So I showed you how to use particle for 's, but I said that [FONT=&quot]の[/FONT] works like of as well as 's. How would you say "the students of the school"?

Answer: [FONT=&quot]がっこうのせいと[/FONT]. The exact same way. That's because "the school's students" and "the students of the school" have, essentially, the same meaning just with two different wordings. Japanese doesn't distinguish between the two like English does.

Also, you can add [FONT=&quot]の[/FONT] to pronouns. If you take the word for "I" ([FONT=&quot]わたし[/FONT]) and add [FONT=&quot]の[/FONT] you get "my" ([FONT=&quot]わたしの[/FONT]). It works the same for "you". It becomes "your", and so on.

Place of Action

The next particle is [FONT=&quot]で[/FONT]. This particle is used to indicate place of action, or in other words where something is happening. How it works is you take the place where something is happening and add [FONT=&quot]で[/FONT] to the end of it. The only other important part to remember is that your sentence needs to have an action verb and something which is doing the action. Let's try to form the sentence: "I swim at the pool."
(remember to add [FONT=&quot]は[/FONT] to the subject of the sentence and to put the verb at the end)

[FONT=&quot]わたし[/FONT] (I, me)
[FONT=&quot]プール[/FONT] (pool)
[FONT=&quot]およぐ[/FONT] (swim; I'm getting a little out of order by not going over verbs in more detail, but just roll with it for now)

When we put it all together we get: [FONT=&quot]わたしはプールでおよぐ[/FONT].

Direction

The third thing we'll go over is direction. This means exactly what it looks like, things moving toward something. If you can already guess what I'm going to say next then you're already getting how particles work. The way you use this particle is you take the place or thing that is the 'destination' and add [FONT=&quot]へ[/FONT] to the end of it. Going right to an example: "You go to school."

[FONT=&quot]あなた[/FONT] (you)
[FONT=&quot]いく[/FONT] (go)
[FONT=&quot]がっこう[/FONT] (school)

And in no time at all we get: [FONT=&quot]あなたはがっこうへいく[/FONT].

Note that this kana is pronounced as "e" and not "he" when it is used as a particle. I don't really know why, but that's how they do it.

A particle that has many uses

I'm saved this particle for last because it's the most complicated of the four I introduced. It has some set meanings, but it really covers a whole range of uses that are too many to get into. For simplicity's sake you can think of it as the Japanese version of "at" or "to". I know that doesn't sound like it makes much sense since we already went over to particles which seem to cover those words, but it's got some subtle differences. But let's not get bogged down by all that. I'll use it in a few examples that are easy enough to learn. First, "at".

Unlike [FONT=&quot]で[/FONT], which indicates action, [FONT=&quot]に[/FONT] simply indicates that something is somewhere. For instance: "He is at the pool."

[FONT=&quot]かれ[/FONT] (he)
[FONT=&quot]いる[/FONT] (this is the "to be" verb for living things [non-living things get a different verb] and means is, am, are, and so on.)
[FONT=&quot]プール[/FONT] (pool)

So, let's make the sentence: [FONT=&quot]かれはプールにいる[/FONT]

Keep in mind that there is no action going on. Someone is there, but is not specifically doing anything. If the person were swimming, talking, or doing anything then you would want to use [FONT=&quot]で[/FONT].

Now, for the "to" sense. This is often used in the same sense as [FONT=&quot]へ[/FONT] to indicate physical direction, but I'm going to go over it's, um, social direction (for lack of a better way to describe it). I'll use an example of someone giving something to someone else. "I give you money."
(be careful with this one – it's short in English but it's longer in Japanese because of the particles)

[FONT=&quot]わたし[/FONT] (I, me)
[FONT=&quot]あなた[/FONT] (you)
[FONT=&quot]おかね[/FONT] (money)
[FONT=&quot]あげる[/FONT] (give)

And that becomes: [FONT=&quot]わたしはあなたにおかねをあげる[/FONT].

...

Whew.

If you want clarification, more examples, or anything really just post with you question and I'll try to answer as best I can.

 

[NatureKeeper]

Hiragana, and Katakana are almost exactly the same. In fact, Hiragana is by far the easier of the two, mainly because of the lack of extremely similar characters. For example: ノンソシツ

In order, no, so, n, shi, tsu. The direction of the dashes. Hiragana actually looks complex in strokes and whatnot. Katakana looks rather like dashes and stuff. I will need to struggle. I am not taking Kanji seriously yet, but I do know some Kanji.

いる (this is the "to be" verb for living things [non-living things get a different verb] and means is, am, are, and so on.)

I thought "to be" was て゛す (desu).

 

[Esper]

I thought "to be" was て゛す (desu).

There are actually three different ways for saying "to be".

いる [iru] (or it's formal version, います [imasu])
ある [aru] (or あります [arimasu])
だ [da] (or the well known です [desu])

You use だ / ですwhen equating one thing to another, when saying one thing is another thing. (I am happy.) (The weather is fine.) (They are tourists.)

If you want to state that something simply is, or exists you use いる / います for living things (mostly people and sometimes animals) and you use ある / あります for non-living things (which typically include plants and many animals - yes, I know, but that's how it works).

So, for a sentence like "Japan is in Asia." you would use ある.
With something like "I am in Japan." you would use いる.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

Hmm, might come by this a little later. I've been really lazy about studying the kana o.o

 

[.-Notched]

I want to join! This looks really fun! I can also pick up on languages easily. I have that ability over math, but still. Japanese! :)

 

[Ru-Kun]

I have an ndesu question. Ok I am on lesson 12 of my Genki I textbook, and in this lesson is ndesu. I understand how to use it enough, but I have a question with conjugation. So are these correct? The only information that the book gave me on how to conjugate it was that ndesu doesn't change and to use nandesu with nandesu adjectives and with nouns.
With a verb:
行くんです
行かないんです
行ったんです
行かなかったんです

With an い-adjective:
甘いんです
甘くないんです
甘かったんです
甘くなかったんです

With a な-adjective:
上手なんです
上手じゃないなんです
上手だったなんです
上手じゃなかったなんです

With a noun:
気温なんです
気温じゃないなんです
気温だったなんです
気温じゃなかったなんです

 

[Esper]

I have an ndesu question. Ok I am on lesson 12 of my Genki I textbook, and in this lesson is ndesu. I understand how to use it enough, but I have a question with conjugation. So are these correct? The only information that the book gave me on how to conjugate it was that ndesu doesn't change and to use nandesu with nandesu adjectives and with nouns.
With a verb:
行くんです
行かないんです
行ったんです
行かなかったんです

With an い-adjective:
甘いんです
甘くないんです
甘かったんです
甘くなかったんです

With a な-adjective:
上手なんです
上手じゃないなんです
上手だったなんです
上手じゃなかったなんです

With a noun:
気温なんです
気温じゃないなんです
気温だったなんです
気温じゃなかったなんです

Yes, those are mostly correct. I think. Let me explain.

Everything you wrote with verbs is good so don't worry about those. Same with い-adjectives. Where it gets a little funny is with the な-adjectives and nouns.

I'm going to claim some ignorance on part of this, but I don't think I've ever seen or heard something like 上手じゃないなんです or 上手じゃなかったなんです. As far as I know, you would (more likely? always?) see something like 上手じゃないんです or 上手じゃなかったんです. Same with nouns. The way I understand it is that the ない in じゃない acts like an い-adjective since that's how it acts in other contexts (じゃない becoming じゃなくて and so on). So if it were me I would only use ん on the end of じゃない or じゃなかった.

Side note: you can of course also use だ in place of です if you want.

 

[Ru-Kun]

Ok but I thought that when using んです with な adjectives and nouns you should add the な in there or is that only with the present positive tense?