#21 Elitism

[El Héroe Oscuro]

Question Of The Day #21: Do you think there is elitism on PC?

PokeCommunity is home to many, many users ranging from many, many backgrounds. As time passes on the site, users are selected and modded to run specific sections. However, a certain question keeps popping up from time to time from a slew of users which I believe garners a thread for it. Do you believe that PokeCommunity is home to the trait of 'elitism,' whether through a person being a staff member, the rank of your community supportership, or the tenure in which you've spent on the site? If so, in what ways do you see this prevelant on the site? Do you think this is an issue that needs to be looked at, or do you think that this is something that is inevitable? If you believe this to be the case, in what ways can the culture be reshaped to make everyone feel as equals?

Feel free to discuss all entities of this topic down below.
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[srinator]

yes elitism exists but

 

[moon]

I just want to post to say that this is a topic I could say loads on but won't. Problem?

 

[Morgnarok]

In the recent thread I appeared in I apparently was saw as a Elitist mindset. I don't see myself that here. I have only been here 4 years, I barley have any post or interactions with people around here or events. When I think elitist I think of the best of the best, someone who is above the rest and doesn't have time for non sense or casuals. For instance I am a ex World of Warcraft player. I played 2007-2014. I played a Hunter. I was a hardcore raider who raided 3 times a week for 3-5 hours on regular raiding and on new content 5 days a week for 3-5 hours. I was in the top 10 of my server for hunters every expansion and had a couple realm first under my belt. I saw myself as a elitist then. I had a lot of people always coming to me for guidance and help. For the most part I was in the mind set that whoever wasn't on the same content and gear level of me was a casual player and not worth my time though. They didn't take my type of gaming serious enough.

I don't think they can really be such a thing as a elitist for pokemon really. Unless your the Pokemon World Champion.

There is elitist all over the world even in daily living. Someone who works a 9-5 job making minimum wage barley getting by is frowned upon by someone who owns there own company and making millions a year.

As far as in PC there's only a couple ways I could see there being elitist. If there is a non staff member who has 20,000+ post, is involved in every thread and every event and spends there whole life except sleep, eating, showering on the forums. They would have the right to be a elitist because they are one of the most dedicated to the forums. They spend there life here and put everything they have other than money into it.

The other case would be a PC Supporter who donates hundreds of dollars monthly or thousands yearly. They are one of the most productive members since they are basically paying the bill for the forums to stay open on there own.

If these two cases are seen as elitist and people complain things need to change and be equal it's just sad. If there not breaking rules then there's no reason they shouldn't be seen above the rest instead of being frown upon because 90% of the population can't do the things they can do and they envy them.

 

[Hikamaru]

I don't really recall what would make one viewed as "elitist" but given I'm a community supporter with 15,000+ posts I guess it makes the new guys look up to me a lot and I tend to post in a lot of areas, which seems to fit the description Symbiosis posted.

Being looked up to is something I don't mind, but I remember when there were occasions people mistook me for a staff member and that made me laugh. I did take my supportership a little bit seriously in the past but these days I just care more for the forum.

 

[moon]

elitist
1. A person who believes that they are superior to others (and thus deserve favored status) because of their intellect, social status, wealth, or other factors.

2. Somebody who believes that society should be ruled by an elite class.

The acedemic's elitist, arrogant outlook made it hard for him to make friends with people.



elite
1. High quality, upper class, superior, fine, above average, great, wonderful, sinfully good, not an asshat, skillful, wonderful, wizzunderful

Those were some elite moves, my friend.
When I kicked those guys asses handily?
Yes.​

As far as in PC there's only a couple ways I could see there being elitist. If there is a non staff member who has 20,000+ post, is involved in every thread and every event and spends there whole life except sleep, eating, showering on the forums. They would have the right to be a elitist because they are one of the most dedicated to the forums. They spend there life here and put everything they have other than money into it.

The other case would be a PC Supporter who donates hundreds of dollars monthly or thousands yearly. They are one of the most productive members since they are basically paying the bill for the forums to stay open on there own.

If these two cases are seen as elitist and people complain things need to change and be equal it's just sad. If there not breaking rules then there's no reason they shouldn't be seen above the rest instead of being frown upon because 90% of the population can't do the things they can do and they envy them.

I see that you have an elitist way of thinking about these things. You consider yourself to have more rights and deserving of respect and praise from others here because you have donated more than most, isn't that what you mean? By definition, you are then being elitist. (elitistic? I'm not sure how to bend the word tbh) Not trying to be rude here, just trying to understand our different viewpoints.

Elite, is another thing. It sort of sounds like you are mixing up the terms. Elitist is not usually something you want to be if I understand things correctly, as it's seen as similar to being arrogant and thinking less of others for reasons others might not see as just. If a person has 20 000 posts that are not spam, has been staff, tier6+ supporter and 1000+ friends etc yada yada then maybe those things could be said to qualify them for PC's elite. Maybe! Elite isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it's probably desirable to not define such a group on PC. We're not a country and free democracy, but I like to believe we're kind of working towards making everyone feel like their voice matters, no matter time, post count or color.

Elitist, though, I won't give anyone the right to be, because I really don't believe in elitism. Even if I had donated thousands and had a red name, I really wouldn't want people to consider me better than them (well, only when I wanted to win arguments :p) because that would just be a false way of living.


If we go off PC though and into some RL matters, I could think of a few situations where I might be a bit elitist(-ic??) because I think I deserve something for having done something or something. Something. But this topic was about PC ;)

 

[Morgnarok]

elitist
1. A person who believes that they are superior to others (and thus deserve favored status) because of their intellect, social status, wealth, or other factors.

2. Somebody who believes that society should be ruled by an elite class.

The acedemic's elitist, arrogant outlook made it hard for him to make friends with people.



elite
1. High quality, upper class, superior, fine, above average, great, wonderful, sinfully good, not an asshat, skillful, wonderful, wizzunderful

Those were some elite moves, my friend.
When I kicked those guys asses handily?
Yes.​

I see that you have an elitist way of thinking about these things. You consider yourself to have more rights and deserving of respect and praise from others here because you have donated more than most, isn't that what you mean? By definition, you are then being elitist. (elitistic? I'm not sure how to bend the word tbh) Not trying to be rude here, just trying to understand our different viewpoints.

Elite, is another thing. It sort of sounds like you are mixing up the terms. Elitist is not usually something you want to be if I understand things correctly, as it's seen as similar to being arrogant and thinking less of others for reasons others might not see as just. If a person has 20 000 posts that are not spam, has been staff, tier6+ supporter and 1000+ friends etc yada yada then maybe those things could be said to qualify them for PC's elite. Maybe! Elite isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it's probably desirable to not define such a group on PC. We're not a country and free democracy, but I like to believe we're kind of working towards making everyone feel like their voice matters, no matter time, post count or color.

Elitist, though, I won't give anyone the right to be, because I really don't believe in elitism. Even if I had donated thousands and had a red name, I really wouldn't want people to consider me better than them (well, only when I wanted to win arguments :p) because that would just be a false way of living.


If we go off PC though and into some RL matters, I could think of a few situations where I might be a bit elitist(-ic??) because I think I deserve something for having done something or something. Something. But this topic was about PC ;)

There's a difference in my term of a elitist and the term used for a dictionary. A elitist in the gaming world is normally someone who takes everything serious, is always at the top of there game, Always is cocky and fully of him/her self knowing they can back it up. Like for instance with world of warcraft. You have the people who are just innocent by standing casual players. They might log in a hour or two a day or week for the purpose of friends/quest or leveling. A Hardcore/elitist logs in everyday for hours on end always trying to stay at the top, raiding or pvp everyday of the week. Always looking at there stats and number crunching just to make there self better. If they know a way they can do one extra % damage then they will spend hours trying to find a way to do it. A normal or casual player doesn't care about that.

In the end what I am trying to say is this is a Pokemon Forums. There shouldn't be no such term as Elitist but at the same time I don't believe that the so called members who don't donate or don't spend hours on pc daily should have the right to look down upon people who have that ability and might just care more or have more free time and money than them.

If someone can donate $1,000 in one month, while someone else can donate $1 dollar in a month. The $1,000 member shouldn't be bashed or frowned upon because in so called terms he wasted his money or because he has that kind of money to help out. People may not notice it but it does happen.

I got looked down upon and told to leave a thread a couple times just the other day on the forums because I told my story about how I don't work, live off inheritance, never will have to work a day in my life and that I have 12-14 hours free daily. I understand the normal every day person doesn't have these types abilities or free time but why should I be looked down upon or harassed because I just so happen too? It goes the same way as I shouldn't mess with people just because there struggling to barley pay their bills and have no free time.

There should be no hate. We all come from different backgrounds. Just because someone has it a lot better than the average member or a lot worst it doesn't make a difference and should all get along.

This is the reason I don't interact with many people on PC or even though I am on here all day I don't post too much or get into discussions because in the end I am going to lose my temper and get into a argument.

In the end I am not a elitist and anyone who's calls them self a elitist for a Pokemon forums or Pokemon games is a fool. Go get into some serious gaming if you want to be a elitist and lets see how long you last trying to keep up with millions of other players. I know I did it for 6 years staying at the top 10 on my realm for a game. All I got in the end is being burned out and feeling like a god for a while.

 

[Aquacorde]

pc has always been elitist and always will be

- join date is important - people don't listen to you if you're seen as a new person
- postcount is always monitored - while it is a good measure of activity within the community, much more store is set by higher numbers than should be
- a lot of supporters have an air of supporters being a ~higher class~
- staff is always seen as higher class. some power trippin goes on. pc culture is staff-centric and everyone sucks up.

pc is elitist/classist as ****. that option to turn off postbit info, there was a notion in there that it would reduce that kind of behaviour. don't think it has too much really. the main issue is still staff-centric culture and that's just not going to go away. its pretty ingrained into this community.

 

[moon]

There's a difference in my term of a elitist and the term used for a dictionary. A elitist in the gaming world is normally someone who takes everything serious, is always at the top of there game, Always is cocky and fully of him/her self knowing they can back it up. Like for instance with world of warcraft. You have the people who are just innocent by standing casual players. They might log in a hour or two a day or week for the purpose of friends/quest or leveling. A Hardcore/elitist logs in everyday for hours on end always trying to stay at the top, raiding or pvp everyday of the week. Always looking at there stats and number crunching just to make there self better. If they know a way they can do one extra % damage then they will spend hours trying to find a way to do it. A normal or casual player doesn't care about that.

In the end what I am trying to say is this is a Pokemon Forums. There shouldn't be no such term as Elitist but at the same time I don't believe that the so called members who don't donate or don't spend hours on pc daily should have the right to look down upon people who have that ability and might just care more or have more free time and money than them.

If someone can donate $1,000 in one month, while someone else can donate $1 dollar in a month. The $1,000 member shouldn't be bashed or frowned upon because in so called terms he wasted his money or because he has that kind of money to help out. People may not notice it but it does happen.

I got looked down upon and told to leave a thread a couple times just the other day on the forums because I told my story about how I don't work, live off inheritance, never will have to work a day in my life and that I have 12-14 hours free daily. I understand the normal every day person doesn't have these types abilities or free time but why should I be looked down upon or harassed because I just so happen too? It goes the same way as I shouldn't mess with people just because there struggling to barley pay their bills and have no free time.

There should be no hate. We all come from different backgrounds. Just because someone has it a lot better than the average member or a lot worst it doesn't make a difference and should all get along.

This is the reason I don't interact with many people on PC or even though I am on here all day I don't post too much or get into discussions because in the end I am going to lose my temper and get into a argument.

In the end I am not a elitist and anyone who's calls them self a elitist for a Pokemon forums or Pokemon games is a fool. Go get into some serious gaming if you want to be a elitist and lets see how long you last trying to keep up with millions of other players. I know I did it for 6 years staying at the top 10 on my realm for a game. All I got in the end is being burned out and feeling like a god for a while.

I understand now and it makes sense. Thank you, honestly, for clarifying your view with a very well written post.

I think it's great that there are people who can help PC live on and you are right, you really shouldn't be looked down upon for that. That would be some kind of reversed elitism, as if it was a bad thing to give O.o

pc has always been elitist and always will be

- join date is important - people don't listen to you if you're seen as a new person
- postcount is always monitored - while it is a good measure of activity within the community, much more store is set by higher numbers than should be
- a lot of supporters have an air of supporters being a ~higher class~
- staff is always seen as higher class. some power trippin goes on. pc culture is staff-centric and everyone sucks up.

pc is elitist/classist as ****. that option to turn off postbit info, there was a notion in there that it would reduce that kind of behaviour. don't think it has too much really. the main issue is still staff-centric culture and that's just not going to go away. its pretty ingrained into this community.

I agree it's staff-centric :/ how to get away from that? It has got to be attractive to be on staff, or else you wouldn't put up with doing the work.

Having a supporter community is a nice way to make non-staff more visible for a price though.

 

[Oryx]

An elitist doesn't have to be good at what they do. Often their elitism comes from something that doesn't actually make them better - like join date like Anna mentioned. You're not a better member because you've been here longer.

Anyway yeah PC has its share of elitism. Apparently monetary elitism is more rampant than I thought it was, as well as lots of join date elitism. Also there's a great deal of staff elitism that's buoyed by the memberbase; the members tend to think there's this massive gap between the two when there really isn't, and then the staff soak up that attitude and, when staff vs. member disagreements arise, assume the member is less knowledgeable just because they're a member.

 

[gimmepie]

In all fairness a lot of the time when these member vs staff disagreements pop up it's a member being butthurt because they got infracted or had their thread closed. In those cases I'd say it's more a case of staff exasperation than staff elitsm.

Their are certainly some elitist members on PC, but there's elitists in every community both online and physical. It's not really the sort of thing you can make disappear. Rather than try and change the community - the majority of which is perfectly fine if you ask me - I'd suggest more a crackdown on members who have a habit of starting trouble through elitism. It seems to me that weeding out the few bad eggs is probably better than switching to a new basket just in case (that analogy was terrible but oh well).

 

[Auraluxe]

There's a difference in my term of a elitist and the term used for a dictionary. A elitist in the gaming world is normally someone who takes everything serious, is always at the top of there game, Always is cocky and fully of him/her self knowing they can back it up.

-----

I told my story about how I don't work, live off inheritance, never will have to work a day in my life and that I have 12-14 hours free daily. I understand the normal every day person doesn't have these types abilities or free time but why should I be looked down upon or harassed because I just so happen too? It goes the same way as I shouldn't mess with people just because there struggling to barley pay their bills and have no free time.

There should be no hate. We all come from different backgrounds. Just because someone has it a lot better than the average member or a lot worst it doesn't make a difference and should all get along.

This is the reason I don't interact with many people on PC or even though I am on here all day I don't post too much or get into discussions because in the end I am going to lose my temper and get into a argument.

In the end I am not a elitist and anyone who's calls them self a elitist for a Pokemon forums or Pokemon games is a fool. Go get into some serious gaming if you want to be a elitist and lets see how long you last trying to keep up with millions of other players. I know I did it for 6 years staying at the top 10 on my realm for a game. All I got in the end is being burned out and feeling like a god for a while.

However, as far as I can tell from reading the first post and all the posts that followed, we aren't talking about elitism in video games. We're talking about elitism within the culture of PC. Besides, according to [WoW's wiki page on elitists within the game], they don't seem to hold nearly as much of a positive view on elitism as you do. Not trying to pick a fight, just saying that our definitions aren't matching up, which means we're talking about two different issues altogether. I agree that PC doesn't deal with your definition of elitism and trying to say it does is foolish. However, saying that PC doesn't have any issues of elitism whatsoever is equally foolish. Elitism is rampant on PC, it just doesn't follow your narrow definition of the word. It does mean more than striving for the #1 spot on the rankings of some video game, trying to be the best, have the best gear, highest DPS, highest numbers, a god compared to someone who just joined the game that day.

Elitism can also mean feeling entitled to more, to better. Feeling like people should look at you a certain way, be impressed by your achievements, or like you're superior when compared to them. Perhaps because you've done something you believe warrants that feeling, such as donating or being a staff member, or not; it's elitism either way.

(As a side note, your final paragragh suggests that you have an elitist, or perhaps mildly narcissistic, attitude. The challenge of "see how long you last" combined with your self-impressed statement of "I did it for 6 years" and "I was in the top 10" does nothing to support your statement denying any possibility of you being an elitist. Forgive me if these assumptions are unfounded. I'm truly not trying to accost you, just sayin' how you come across.)

All of that aside, I know elitism will probably remain for the foreseeable future. It's a concept so ingrained in gamers and internet-goers alike that the attitude changing any time soon is highly unlikely. Every forum you go to, it's all about the post count, the join date, the staff position, etc. In games, it's all about the rankings, the numbers, the stats. People want to be the best. The problem is, they don't just want to be the best. They want to be better. If everyone on a game had maxed out stats, were of equal skill level, and had the best possible gear set, they couldn't claim to be the best. And therefore, they would be unhappy. They would be 'normal', and that makes them lose that feeling of superiority. In order for equality, there could be no post count, no join date, no rankings, no username color or bold or staff bars, donator bars, varying avatar sizes, etc. And even then, people would find ways to gauge who's better than whom. Grammar is a common issue on the internet. People frequently look down on people who don't type 'correctly', as defined by their own personal opinions, and likewise, people look down on grammar nazis for telling other people how to type. There's nothing at all you can do about it; it's so deeply ingrained in people that it's like telling a chain smoker of 50+ years to quit cold turkey. The only thing we can change is how we, ourselves, act. xD *shrugs*

(...This was longer than I intended. Whoops. Sorry, peeps.)

 

[curiousnathan]

I think PC was seriously elitist back in 09. Nowadays it's still a bit, but not nearly as much as it used to be.

 

[Morgnarok]

However, as far as I can tell from reading the first post and all the posts that followed, we aren't talking about elitism in video games. We're talking about elitism within the culture of PC. Besides, according to [WoW's wiki page on elitists within the game], they don't seem to hold nearly as much of a positive view on elitism as you do. Not trying to pick a fight, just saying that our definitions aren't matching up, which means we're talking about two different issues altogether. I agree that PC doesn't deal with your definition of elitism and trying to say it does is foolish. However, saying that PC doesn't have any issues of elitism whatsoever is equally foolish. Elitism is rampant on PC, it just doesn't follow your narrow definition of the word. It does mean more than striving for the #1 spot on the rankings of some video game, trying to be the best, have the best gear, highest DPS, highest numbers, a god compared to someone who just joined the game that day.

Elitism can also mean feeling entitled to more, to better. Feeling like people should look at you a certain way, be impressed by your achievements, or like you're superior when compared to them. Perhaps because you've done something you believe warrants that feeling, such as donating or being a staff member, or not; it's elitism either way.

(As a side note, your final paragragh suggests that you have an elitist, or perhaps mildly narcissistic, attitude. The challenge of "see how long you last" combined with your self-impressed statement of "I did it for 6 years" and "I was in the top 10" does nothing to support your statement denying any possibility of you being an elitist. Forgive me if these assumptions are unfounded. I'm truly not trying to accost you, just sayin' how you come across.)

All of that aside, I know elitism will probably remain for the foreseeable future. It's a concept so ingrained in gamers and internet-goers alike that the attitude changing any time soon is highly unlikely. Every forum you go to, it's all about the post count, the join date, the staff position, etc. In games, it's all about the rankings, the numbers, the stats. People want to be the best. The problem is, they don't just want to be the best. They want to be better. If everyone on a game had maxed out stats, were of equal skill level, and had the best possible gear set, they couldn't claim to be the best. And therefore, they would be unhappy. They would be 'normal', and that makes them lose that feeling of superiority. In order for equality, there could be no post count, no join date, no rankings, no username color or bold or staff bars, donator bars, varying avatar sizes, etc. And even then, people would find ways to gauge who's better than whom. Grammar is a common issue on the internet. People frequently look down on people who don't type 'correctly', as defined by their own personal opinions, and likewise, people look down on grammar nazis for telling other people how to type. There's nothing at all you can do about it; it's so deeply ingrained in people that it's like telling a chain smoker of 50+ years to quit cold turkey. The only thing we can change is how we, ourselves, act. xD *shrugs*

(...This was longer than I intended. Whoops. Sorry, peeps.)

I thank you for your time and reply. The reason I described it on a video game term is due to the fact that after all we are a forums based off Pokemon games more than anything else. While in my words of a elitist were a bit off the link you gave was correct 100% for in terms of WoW and many other MMO's. Their all about having the top ranking, top numbers, top dps, top gear, full heroic content cleared and basically looking down upon others and not giving anyone the time of day unless they feel they are equal or greater than them. If you were to ask them a question or even a simple question about the game they would laugh at you because it should be common knowledge and then your classified as a noob or a casual.

My last thing I said in a way I wasn't trying to be a elitist but like I said I was a elitist for near 6 years for WoW. I look back on those days like yes I may of been one of the top players but how many hundreds or even thousands of players did I tell to screw off or leave me alone due to a simple question or just admiring me. At the end of the day for the first couple years Yes I felt like a god, Yes I felt very proud and cocky but by the time I quit I had no friends other than a couple other elitist players in my guild. I was also very tired and even almost had a stroke at 18 from staying online days and nights on end no sleep drinking mountain dew, coffee and barley eating trying to stay on top and be a elitist for years.

What I was trying to say that for those people who think they are a elitist on a Pokemon Forums they need to get real. They don't know the half of it. There should be no such thing here in terms of a elitist.

 

[Musicality]

I thank you for your time and reply. The reason I described it on a video game term is due to the fact that after all we are a forums based off Pokemon games more than anything else. While in my words of a elitist were a bit off the link you gave was correct 100% for in terms of WoW and many other MMO's. Their all about having the top ranking, top numbers, top dps, top gear, full heroic content cleared and basically looking down upon others and not giving anyone the time of day unless they feel they are equal or greater than them. If you were to ask them a question or even a simple question about the game they would laugh at you because it should be common knowledge and then your classified as a noob or a casual.

My last thing I said in a way I wasn't trying to be a elitist but like I said I was a elitist for near 6 years for WoW. I look back on those days like yes I may of been one of the top players but how many hundreds or even thousands of players did I tell to screw off or leave me alone due to a simple question or just admiring me. At the end of the day for the first couple years Yes I felt like a god, Yes I felt very proud and cocky but by the time I quit I had no friends other than a couple other elitist players in my guild. I was also very tired and even almost had a stroke at 18 from staying online days and nights on end no sleep drinking mountain dew, coffee and barley eating trying to stay on top and be a elitist for years.

What I was trying to say that for those people who think they are a elitist on a Pokemon Forums they need to get real. They don't know the half of it. There should be no such thing here in terms of a elitist.

Oh, you'd be surprised. People who are an elitist usually don't take well to others pointing out that they are elitist, or have an elitist air about them. They probably are unaware of the fact, or just don't want I be called, elitist.

In any setting, be it a forum, a MMO, of even in the world of competitive Pokemon, there will be people with an elitist attitude. I would generally classify a person as an elitist if he has this unfounded air of superiority over others. The word in italics is the key point here. Be it among staff, community supporters (I believe this is a continuation of the "Platinum Tier Supporters" thread I made earlier) and even regular members, there will be people that think they have the right to push others around and force others to accept their viewpoints and whatnot or believe that what they say or do holds more weight than what others do when it dosen't should be classified as having an elitist attitude of sorts. Be it because of the amount they donated, their overall forum presence, extensive knowledge, post count and whatnot.

I don't understand some of the comments pertaining to staff elitism though. Being staff does not make you elitist by default, if the staff has a superior attitude it's a different thing, but enforcing the rules and keeping things in order is their job and they shouldn't be classified as elitist, but rather the "elite". They do have extensive knowledge of the site, are wiling to help others and know a lot about the site, not to mention they oversee the site to make sure it's the cool place it is today, so technically they would be the "head honchos". Being elite is not really anything bad or wrong. Being elitist, with regards to having a superior attitude of sorts, is something to be looked down upon. Just my two cents. :)

 

[Oryx]

I thank you for your time and reply. The reason I described it on a video game term is due to the fact that after all we are a forums based off Pokemon games more than anything else. While in my words of a elitist were a bit off the link you gave was correct 100% for in terms of WoW and many other MMO's. Their all about having the top ranking, top numbers, top dps, top gear, full heroic content cleared and basically looking down upon others and not giving anyone the time of day unless they feel they are equal or greater than them. If you were to ask them a question or even a simple question about the game they would laugh at you because it should be common knowledge and then your classified as a noob or a casual.

My last thing I said in a way I wasn't trying to be a elitist but like I said I was a elitist for near 6 years for WoW. I look back on those days like yes I may of been one of the top players but how many hundreds or even thousands of players did I tell to screw off or leave me alone due to a simple question or just admiring me. At the end of the day for the first couple years Yes I felt like a god, Yes I felt very proud and cocky but by the time I quit I had no friends other than a couple other elitist players in my guild. I was also very tired and even almost had a stroke at 18 from staying online days and nights on end no sleep drinking mountain dew, coffee and barley eating trying to stay on top and be a elitist for years.

What I was trying to say that for those people who think they are a elitist on a Pokemon Forums they need to get real. They don't know the half of it. There should be no such thing here in terms of a elitist.

Now that I'm reading more of your posts, I think your definition is pretty close to the definition most people are using here; the difference seems to be mainly in where the emphasis lies in it. You're putting emphasis on the skill part of elitist, while the rest of us put emphasis on the attitude part. If you have the attitude without the skill, you can still be elitist in my eyes. Just like being racist is an attitude and being sexist is an attitude, so is being elitist - just instead of race and sex being the judging categories, it's how elite you are.

I don't understand some of the comments pertaining to staff elitism though. Being staff does not make you elitist by default, if the staff has a superior attitude it's a different thing, but enforcing the rules and keeping things in order is their job and they shouldn't be classified as elitist, but rather the "elite". They do have extensive knowledge of the site, are wiling to help others and know a lot about the site, not to mention they oversee the site to make sure it's the cool place it is today, so technically they would be the "head honchos". Being elite is not really anything bad or wrong. Being elitist, with regards to having a superior attitude of sorts, is something to be looked down upon. Just my two cents. :)

I've been on both sides of the coin here, as staff and non-staff. Enforcing the rules does not inherently make staff elitist, no one is saying that, nor is anyone saying that the entire staff is elitist. It's interesting - the people who knew I was staff before I left and came back oftentimes still treat me differently than the people who never knew me as staff when I make a suggestion or have an opinion. It's not about their skill, like I mentioned above, it's about their attitude (although, moderating takes far more of 'effort' than 'skill'). This is actually part of the member attitude that contributes to staff elitism: "but they're so much better so they can act that way!" In reality, if you learn the rules well and are a mature person you have all the skills they have. Trust me on this; there is no secret moderator thing that makes them so much smarter or better than members. But if you saw how easily moderators brush off private criticism, you'd think there was. I'm saying this from knowledge of how other mods responded to private criticism, often from posts when I was on staff. If you don't agree with them, even if their point is just as valid, they're often dismissed without even a second thought as not having as good an opinion because they're a member. It's so easy because it means staff get to keep doing whatever's most comfortable for them; I'm pretty sure I fell into the trap myself a few times as well.

In all fairness a lot of the time when these member vs staff disagreements pop up it's a member being butthurt because they got infracted or had their thread closed. In those cases I'd say it's more a case of staff exasperation than staff elitsm.

Not talking about public threads. Generally the elitism goes down in much more private places, places where you wouldn't see it unless the staff member or the complainer shares it with you. Although once you know it's there, you can see it as an undertone in some people even in public.

 

[Nick]

I think PC was seriously elitist back in 09. Nowadays it's still a bit, but not nearly as much as it used to be.

I'm inclined to agree with this. It's not like it used to be, but its still somewhat present. It will always be present because PC has always been and always will be a staff-centric forum.

 

[Nah]

It will always be present because PC has always been and always will be a staff-centric forum.

Kinda have to wonder why it's like that in the first place.

 

[Nick]

Kinda have to wonder why it's like that in the first place.

Staff are seen like celebrity around here, and are treated as such. It doesn't help that they're among each other first and foremost, except for pre-existing friendships. They're seen as an elite group of people - the wealthy and attractive - in the eyes of most PC members, which is really kind of startling how much a position can do. Nobody really admits to each other that that's the case, though. Staff have always denied flocking to their own, but it's something that we all do. We gravitate to the similar. In work, in school, in life, and on the internet.

 

[Nolafus]

Kinda have to wonder why it's like that in the first place.

Well, it's all up to the social ladder. PC relies very heavily on the social ladder, much more so than other forums, but it's not as bad as others (and not as bad as 2009, it seems).

As stated above in previous arguments, people naturally want to feel the best, or at least recognized at just about everything we do. Because of this, people want to be better than others. When this attitude enters a forum, it's no longer skill that dictates everything, but effort. As you put more effort into the forum, you start to climb PC's social ladder. At the very top of this ladder are the staff positions. Since, what better title proves you've put a lot of effort into the forum than a shiny, bold username?

Not only are you more noticeable when you're around, but you're now in charge of something, and have power over people. Your presence is now multiplied, people start recognizing you for all of the work you do, and they stroke that ego we all have. This makes staff members feel more "important" than others (important is in quotes because it's not really true), and people like to feel important.

In the end, it all comes down to feeling important and wanted around here.

As a staff member myself, I try to stay away from elitist thoughts, since at the end of the day, I'm just a guy, and nothing more. In fact, I try to shove out all traces of it, and there are members here whom I respect their opinions more, over other staff members'. I'll just go ahead and quote Oryx, since it was put very nicely:

In reality, if you learn the rules well and are a mature person you have all the skills they have. Trust me on this; there is no secret moderator thing that makes them so much smarter or better than members.

TL:DR, Yes, PC has an elitist attitude that is very ingrained in the culture we have.