A "Cynica" Debate: Should Cannabis Be Legalised?

[magikarptrainer]

But yes, marijuana should be legalized in my opinion. As Luck has stated, there aren't DIRECT deaths from marijuana occurring, while alcohol and tobacco do cause deaths directly from using the drug. Do people die under the influence of it? Yes, but not from just smoking it, people do stupid stuff after they have smoked it, therefore causing their deaths. If we can have alcohol and tobacco, which have historically show to cause death directly from taking them, then why not legalize a drug that isn't as harmful that people want?

I don't understand this line argument... because they died doing something under the influence rather than the drug itself, that is somehow any better? They are less dead if they didn't die from the drug itself?

 

[Luck]

So if the choice is: Smoke marijuana or smoke nothing...smoking marijuana is healthier?

In many circumstances. It does stimulate brain growth, but like everything, I can assume that it is only healthy if taken in moderation.

And I understand that marijuana makes a ridiculous amount of money on the underground.. but I disagree with the "Well, people are going to sell it anyway so you might as well legalize it." argument. Just because people refuse to follow the rules doesn't mean the rules are wrong.

That wasn't necessarily my point. But seeing the popularity, use, and overall healthiness of marijuana(and hemp), why not?

Let me ask you this. Let's say we're discussing legalizing cigarettes, hypothetically, where would you stand?

I don't want to answer since marijuana and cigarettes is like apples and plastic oranges, but what the hell.
I would keep it legal. Prohibiting it would only lead to organised crime. But just because I support keeping it legal doesn't mean I think that it is healthy. The best way is to make people not want to use cigarettes, instead of prohibiting it.

glow.ForEveR already has a link to a great video about the history of marijuana, so I suggest you look at that once you have the time, if you didn't already.

I don't understand this line argument... because they died doing something under the influence rather than the drug itself, that is somehow any better? They are less dead if they didn't die from the drug itself?

No, but the drug is less responsible, in a way. A person would never die if they didn't get in the car when they were high if they only smoked marijuana. However, a person might die if they never got in a car but drank nothing but alcohol that day.

 

[JadedIguana]

I swear, this said cannibals. Really.
</useless input>

 

[jasonresno]

I guess my final point is this: Nobody ever died from not getting MJ. And not smoking MJ is healthier than smoking it. America doesn't need another reason to get more obese and lazy. And yes: the majority of potheads I deal with on a day to day basis are overweight and lazy.

The one perk you cling to, that I find relevant, is that there are healthy aspects to it. People don't smoke marijuana because of the healthy aspects (whatever they truly are...) they do it to get high. Bottom line is: high people are annoying and when you're stoned you make poor judgments.

The only reason I could get behind legalizing marijuana is because it would stop people from dying stupid deaths trying to score drugs but at the same time that'd be caving in to all of the dealers and gangs. And besides, any legalized marijuana would be strictly quality controlled to the point that people would still want the 'good stuff' and have to buy it illegally.

 

[Luck]

I guess my final point is this: Nobody ever died from not getting MJ. And not smoking MJ is healthier than smoking it.

I don't see where you're coming from, and since you can't prove a negative, I can bet you don't have any reason to believe so other than your personal life.

America doesn't need another reason to get more obese and lazy.

Opinion, but since when did smoking marijuana lead to obesity? I know you get the 'munchies', but that doesn't lead anywhere unless you continuously use it.

And yes: the majority of potheads I deal with on a day to day basis are overweight and lazy.

Opinion, but everyone I know that tried marijuana is actually fit.

Bottom line is: high people are annoying and when you're stoned you make poor judgments.

Not really. My brother told me that a friend he had aced a test while he was high. Unless you are talking about moral judgments? Even then, I bet it varies.

And besides, any legalized marijuana would be strictly quality controlled to the point that people would still want the 'good stuff' and have to buy it illegally.

What makes you think so?

 

[xJordan360]

Think about it like this.
Alcohol and Tobacco are both taxed, which helps support America as a country.
Currently we are facing an economic "Crisis", if you'd go so far as to call it that.

Now, we've been discussing the health benefits/risks and the "gateway" attribute of the "drug" marijuana. Let's think about the economic effects of legalization. Now, obviously marijuana would be taxed, and have an age limit set to as with Tobacco and Alcohol(which, also, was illegal, might I remind you, and we see how well that worked to drop crime rates). The quality of it, as said before, would be monitored by the government, thus eliminating shady dealers, and "iffy" marijuana (bad quality, spiked/laced, etc.) With the elimination of the "middle man", if you will, there will be significantly less money spent prosecuting Marijuana dealers, less money spent on their imprisonment (and the same goes for users, as well).

Now, with all the money being literally poured into rooting out those affiliated with the use and distribution of Marijuana able to be directed somewhere else, and stack that on top of the money earned through taxing the now legal substance, and we have ourselves quite an economical climb from where we stand now.

 

[True Reign]

Marijuana is as addicting as chocolate.

 

[jasonresno]

I don't see where you're coming from, and since you can't prove a negative, I can bet you don't have any reason to believe so other than your personal life.
-What do you mean? I proved my point entirely.

Opinion, but since when did smoking marijuana lead to obesity? I know you get the 'munchies', but that doesn't lead anywhere unless you continuously use it.
-Smoking pot does not lead to obesity, it contributes. The same way that fast food, poor dieting, and lack of excercise contribute. We don't need another crutch to lead us to the fat camp.

Opinion, but everyone I know that tried marijuana is actually fit.
-So, you seeing fit people smoke marijuana=good point but me seeing an overwhelmingly large amount of out of shape people smoking marijuana=invalid? Wat? I've dealt with hundreds and hundreds of pot heads as well as met more than a handful in college. In the least condescending way possible I'm going to tell you that I have backing on my opinion.

Not really. My brother told me that a friend he had aced a test while he was high. Unless you are talking about moral judgments? Even then, I bet it varies.
-Well of course it varies. But I promise you (my father has been a police officer my whole life) (and I also work in an industry synonymous with growing pot) that the majority of people smoking it are not doing it for the "positives" and certainly aren't doing it while they're acing tests. They just want to get high.

What makes you think so?
-What do you mean? Look at cigarettes. Look at alcohol. Look at the FDA in general.

If the best argument for legalization that anyone can come up with is: "Well, it's not as bad as cigarettes..." then that really isn't much of an argument. And for the people spouting off: "In moderation it's fine." Well, if you only do cocaine once a year you'll probably be alright. But that doesn't mean it should be legal.

What our government has to do, while looking at a topic like this, is decide how the majority of people would react, not the select few. So even though there are a select few guys out there that honestly believe in the positives of the drug and honestly only do it recreationally...the majority of the people want to just get high and those same people, only in it to get high, are the ones that are going to do something stupid while on the drug. And finally those who are saying "It's not addictive." you are completely wrong. It may not be physically and chemically addictive but it's still psychologically addictive in the way that World of Warcraft (or any other TCG, fad, or food).

And just to let you guys know: I'm not some crazy conservative. I'd, on a political scale, put myself pretty liberal on almost everything but this. I just have too much first hand experience with it.

My biggest thing is this: With all the time, energy, and money people spend trying to get marijuana legalized...you could be doing something positive and something that really matters. Invest that same energy into promoting inner city education, for example.

 

[Luck]

-What do you mean? I proved my point entirely.

I don't see how people not dieing from not getting MJ is a logical argument.
I never went to a gun store and bought a gun, but that doesn't make guns any less dangerous.

Smoking pot does not lead to obesity, it contributes. The same way that fast food, poor dieting, and lack of excercise contribute. We don't need another crutch to lead us to the fat camp.

Anything edible contributes to obesity. :|
And it also helps people eat when they don't feel like eating. *points to chemo patients*

-So, you seeing fit people smoke marijuana=good point but me seeing an overwhelmingly large amount of out of shape people smoking marijuana=invalid? Wat? I've dealt with hundreds and hundreds of pot heads as well as met more than a handful in college. In the least condescending way possible I'm going to tell you that I have backing on my opinion.

I don't even know why I'm arguing with this. It's a moot point from both sides.

-Well of course it varies. But I promise you (my father has been a police officer my whole life) (and I also work in an industry synonymous with growing pot) that the majority of people smoking it are not doing it for the "positives" and certainly aren't doing it while they're acing tests. They just want to get high.

-What do you mean? Look at cigarettes. Look at alcohol. Look at the FDA in general.

But even pure marijuana doesn't do anything apart from laziness.

If the best argument for legalization that anyone can come up with is: "Well, it's not as bad as cigarettes..." then that really isn't much of an argument. And for the people spouting off: "In moderation it's fine." Well, if you only do cocaine once a year you'll probably be alright. But that doesn't mean it should be legal.

Since when did cocaine contribute any positive health effects? Marijuana is completely illegal, even when you can't get high off of hemp, for the many uses it has.

And no, my reasoning isn't that it isn't as dangerous as cigarettes. It's that it was a herb wrongly banned by stupid films(reefer madness, I actually own it), is causing a lot of crime that is unneeded because of said stupid prohibition, and it has many uses, some of which are paper making, clothing, medicine, and just pleasure.

 

[jasonresno]

There's really nothing else to say. This isn't a debate so much as a rehashing of opinions. Nobody is coming in here with an open mind. So I'm just going to leave this here:

https://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

With a few highlights:
-You are breathing in smoke which is obviously bad for you.

-Marijuana contains more tar than cigarettes.

-Marijuana increases heart rate by 20–100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour.

-In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50–70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs' exposure to carcinogenic smoke.

If that sounds like something that should be available in gas stations for anybody old enough to buy it...then I think we're not ever going to agree.

Adieu.

 

[Unforgettable]

I see no reason not to legalize it. It's never killed or hurt anyone, and it's not bad for you. It actually cleans out your lungs. Tabacco and Alcohol are worse for you than pot is. And they are legal. Plus, it could help people in pain more, the taxes will help the government, and less people will do it once it's legal. Takes the thrill out of it. Like, when people turn 21, in a lot of cases, they don't drink nearly as much. It is legal then.

 

[The Cynic]

There's really nothing else to say. This isn't a debate so much as a rehashing of opinions. Nobody is coming in here with an open mind. So I'm just going to leave this here:

https://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

With a few highlights:
-You are breathing in smoke which is obviously bad for you.

-Marijuana contains more tar than cigarettes.

-Marijuana increases heart rate by 20–100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour.

-In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50–70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs' exposure to carcinogenic smoke.

If that sounds like something that should be available in gas stations for anybody old enough to buy it...then I think we're not ever going to agree.

Adieu.

Your marijuana statistics, despite being very accurate, are actually for marijuana in its current form. Currently marijuana is (in my country) sold illegally by drug dealers who are selling incredibly impure forms that are just extra-weighted by all these additional Phenyl and Aldehyde compounds that are the cause of such negative effects. If cannabis was legal, it could be regulated efficiently to ensure these impurities were not present. Its the same as when alcohol was prohibited in the US the trade grew for illegal "Moonshine", which of course was much more harmful than our modern regulated alcohol. The concept is the same.

 

[HeidiMoose]

About a year ago I would have stated I was very supportive of legallizing Marijuana. I don't necessarally think it should NOT be legalized, but I don't want it legalized either.

I wouldn't mind it to be legalized because it is good for medicinal purposes, which is more than likely why the plant has ever existed, because it helps with pain.

In my opinion, I think the vast majority of people who want marijuana legalized are those that smoke it on a daily basis. I can attest to this because I used to smoke weed every day for a good few months. However, I quit because whenever I was high I acted like a complete idiot, my judgement was impaired and I was making horrible decisions during an important transition in my life. My motivation level went down so instead of being in a university somewhere I'm stuck in my hometown living in a run down apartment, working 50+ hours a week trying to survive from paycheck to paycheck, and feeling depressed an aweful lot of the time.

And I disagree about not being able to get addicted to it.
True, one may not become addicted in the same nature as cigarettes and alcohol, but a person can still become addicted.
My best friend smokes marijuana from dawn until dusk every day of his life. When he's going through a dry spell and he doesn't have any weed, he can't even sleep at night.
More importantly, my boyfriend, who is 23 and has been smoking weed since he was 15 years old every day since he started, constantly has stomach problems when he's not smoking weed, and he becomes very agitated and irritable when he's not high, because he's so used to feeling high all the time, and because he doesn't quit smoking weed, is constantly tired and has virtually no sexual stamina. Also, he has a hard time breathing at times because of all the inflammation in his lungs.
He's trying to quit currently and it's the most pathetic thing.. a couple weeks ago he was simply smoking in air from his bong, hoping to get some THC in his system.

Overall, I think it's just a horrible habit.
It may help the economy if it becomes legalized, but personally I feel that it will not ultimately be beneficial in the long run. America's lazy and stupid enough.

 

[PokeStoneR]

reply to post

Now, before you throw in my face "WELL WHY ARE CIGS AND ALCOHOL LEGAL HUH!?!?!?" I'm not into either of those.

Well, I am. And I can tell you from personal experience, that smoking cigarettes, I ****ed up my lungs. Sometimes I have heart pains, and lung pains. I am addicted, I go into panic and become a dick to everyone if I don't get my nicotine fix.

Alcohol. Ahh, much to say on the subject. I used to take a couple of tequila shots before going to school. I still do actually (In Italy, 16 is the legal drinking, smoking and f****** age). I have passed countless nights hugging the toilet as if it were my best friend, puking my soul out. Sometimes I actually didn't even have time to breathe, because the puke was coming out so fast. I then normally pass out somewhere and feel like complete and total **** for a while later.

Marijuana. The worst thing that has EVER happened to me smoking weed, is a headache. I got it, and I felt really tired. 20 minutes later it was gone. That is it. Out of years of smoking, the worst thing about Green is a lousy 20 minute headache. Being high, you get in contact with the spiritual part of the world, and yourself. You are non-violent, quite giggly, get the most amazing idea's (due to increased creativity). I admit, when you are high, you would not want to be attending any math classes.


You may tell me that I am a retard for doing all these things in only my 16th year of life, but I am anything but a retard. You are the retard, you are brainwashed by your stupid government, you are filled with fear and dread of things that don't even exist. I like to experience all aspects of life and reality. We only get one shot at life, and why waste it by doing things we don't like? If you think your society has problems mate, you have no idea what problems are. I was born and raised in Africa, where as I child I literally saw people get shot and dragged into big black vans, and I saw houses burning down (including mine), and people lying dead on the road. So, about Marijuana? What the heck are you afraid of, man? Seriously.

those opposed to legalisation argue that the legalisation of cannabis will act as a precursor to increased addiction to hard drugs, and will necessarily lead to an increase in the crime rate itself.

INCREASED ADDICTION TO HARD DRUGS

"Come on man, don't you want some cocaine???"
"No, I just want weed."
"Ok... MDMA? Ritalin? Heroin?"
"No, I just want weed."
"I will give you the weed, and some coke for free, ok? And then you can come back and buy some more"
"No. Just the weed"

This, is trying to buy weed from a pusher. I know from personal experience. Being illegal, there is no control over the market. So, so, so many people pass from Marijuana to Hard Drugs due to these idiots of nature. So, YES, Marijuana is a gateway drug, but not because of Marijuana, because of YOU IDIOTS who keep it illegal and let this happen!

INCREASED CRIME RATE
Difference between legal and illegal:
1) Legal: Business is run by the government
2) Illegal: Business is run by criminals.

Just by making something illegal, it doesn't mean that the problem is going to go away. It just means that there will be increased population of prisoners.

Marijuana smokers are the most non violent people on the face of this planet.

Non-violent marijuana smokers are going to jail, while pushers like the one mentioned above are free to roam the streets.

You are all fake and gay.

And I disagree about not being able to get addicted to it.
True, one may not become addicted in the same nature as cigarettes and alcohol, but a person can still become addicted.

Dude. You can literally get addicted to ANYTHING on the face of this earth.
Marijuana isn't like other drugs (that's because it's a plant, lol). There is NO chemical present in Marijuana that enters your body and says "you need me, bi***". I promise.

You can get addicted to cheeseburgers, jacking off, a tv show, women/men.

The problem isn't addiction, the problem is YOU (a marijuana smoker) that can't hold his toke. Sure, I'd prefer to have a blunt in my hand, but I can live without it.

I'm sorry if you messed up your life, dude. But next time, tell yourself to chill the hell out and stop smoking every single day of your life -.-

But even pure marijuana doesn't do anything apart from laziness.

Once again, there is NO chemical in Marijuana that enters your body and makes you lazy.

There IS a chemical that temporarily disables motivational patterns in your brain, but it varies from person to person.
Proof? I'm a stoner, and if I was SOOO lazy, I would not be writing this reply, wouldn't I? I would be too lazy to even turn on my PC!


Here are a list of smart people, and what they said on this forum:
= Currently marijuana is (in my country) sold illegally by drug dealers who are selling incredibly impure forms that are just extra-weighted by all these additional Phenyl and Aldehyde compounds that are the cause of such negative effects. If cannabis was legal, it could be regulated efficiently to ensure these impurities were not present. Its the same as when alcohol was prohibited in the US the trade grew for illegal "Moonshine", which of course was much more harmful than our modern regulated alcohol. The concept is the same. =
= I see no reason not to legalize it. It's never killed or hurt anyone, and it's not bad for you. It actually cleans out your lungs. =

 

[Honest]

Lol, I read "Cannibals" at first.

Well, I'm not sure. There is the medical marijuana, but the kind people use as an addictive. I'm not sure. I don't think so, because I can picture people starting to use them like people use cigars and all. : /

 

[blackwell]

Who says I cant? **** the fed those *******s have no authority to ban it anyway. ( That power is given to the states through the 10th.

 

[thekidflash]

Bottom line is: high people are annoying and when you're stoned you make poor judgments.

That's not completely true. Probably not true at all.

Most of the people I've met, while high, where just normal.

I've also been high, it's hardly different being from sober, aside from the fuzzy and good overall feeling you tend to get. Maybe I just don't hang around with people who don't try to act "high" when they're only buzzed, anyway. I'll admit that would be annoying.


Like any carcinogen the risks of lung damage are multiplied by 20 with cannabis because the user tends to inhale more of the smoke, and hold it in to get a proper high. To reiterate one joint is equivocal to 20 cig. It's worth noting that Cannibis is Not as addictive as Tobacco either.

I personally have no problem with Cannibis, I think if it's controlled, taxed and better understood it can put an end to some of the crime in the US revolving around pot and give a cash crop that we sorely need.

 

[Team Rocket's Raichu]

In my government class, we discuss a lot of subjects that is going on, and I mentioned one way to help the economy is to legalize marijuana, make it where only the government can grow it and sell it, and also tax the hell out of it. :P

A lot of people agree with this in my class.