Abortion

[Talon]

I've seen way to many people going crazy over this in my lifetime.

Do you think it's acceptable? I honestly have no problem with abortion. At a certain point, it is a human being, but it isn't born yet. Is it better to bring it into a world of hate and poverty, or keep it away, and save it from the bad things in life? I honestly don't care which way you look at it, I don't have a problem with abortion.

Some sciencey stuff here, but here we go.

When you were first conceived, you were a single cell, called a zygote. You weren't really anything. A zygote is an egg that has been fertilized by a sperm. You aren't a human. You're a human zygote, but you are not really alive yet. Your just a psuedo-lifeform being tucked away, protected, and nourished by your mother. Is it really wrong to kill something that isn't even alive?

Another point I must bring up is the safety of the mother. If having the child will kill the mother, is it worth it? It's either raise the baby in a world of hatred, war, and poverty, or save the mother. If you save the mother, the child is spared the pain of life, and the mother gets a second chance and more time. If more time is given to her, she could have a child at a better time in the flow of humanity, and give the child a better life. What would you pick?

Yet another point that has to be brought up is religion. I'm Agnostic. I really don't know if there is a god. But I do know that if there was a god, they would most likely not allow bad things like that to happen. Christians call it murder, when they don't realize that Christians have killed off more Jews alone than that child will see in it's whole lifetime. Hell, they've killed off more Jews than three children will see just human beings in their whole lifetime. So is the murder of one ZYGOTE more important than repenting for the billions of people killed by Christian crusades and genocide?

 

[BadPokemon]

I've seen way to many people going crazy over this in my lifetime.

Do you think it's acceptable? I honestly have no problem with abortion. At a certain point, it is a human being, but it isn't born yet. Is it better to bring it into a world of hate and poverty, or keep it away, and save it from the bad things in life? I honestly don't care which way you look at it, I don't have a problem with abortion.

Some sciencey stuff here, but here we go.

When you were first conceived, you were a single cell, called a zygote. You weren't really anything. A zygote is an egg that has been fertilized by a sperm. You aren't a human. You're a human zygote, but you are not really alive yet. Your just a psuedo-lifeform being tucked away, protected, and nourished by your mother. Is it really wrong to kill something that isn't even alive?

Another point I must bring up is the safety of the mother. If having the child will kill the mother, is it worth it? It's either raise the baby in a world of hatred, war, and poverty, or save the mother. If you save the mother, the child is spared the pain of life, and the mother gets a second chance and more time. If more time is given to her, she could have a child at a better time in the flow of humanity, and give the child a better life. What would you pick?

Yet another point that has to be brought up is religion. I'm Agnostic. I really don't know if there is a god. But I do know that if there was a god, they would most likely not allow bad things like that to happen. Christians call it murder, when they don't realize that Christians have killed off more Jews alone than that child will see in it's whole lifetime. Hell, they've killed off more Jews than three children will see just human beings in their whole lifetime. So is the murder of one ZYGOTE more important than repenting for the billions of people killed by Christian crusades and genocide?

Are you creating this thread to call out a Christians sins when you yourself sin? That was a result of our sin nature, nothing more, nothing less. Were they true Christians? I don't know. Are you calling is hypocritical (which we are) when you yourself are one also?

Every baby deserves a chance at life. A chance to have a relationship with God.

Here:

It is only in extremely rare cases that abortion can even be mentioned as a potential means of saving the mother's life. Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, stated in a 1996 New York Times editorial that "partial-birth abortions are not needed to save the life of the mother."1 Sixteen years earlier, he wrote: "In my thirty-six years in pediatric surgery I have never known of one instance where the child had to be be aborted to save the mother's life."2 Even Planned Parenthood's Dr. Alan Guttmacher acknowledged, "Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal illness such as cancer or leukemia, and, if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save, life."3

The baby has a heartbeat at 6 weeks. Before then, it is still murder. You said the zygote was a cell. Cells are living. Therefore, you are killing the baby.

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

The problem with the pro life argument is that while everyone agrees that baby killing is generally a pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing to do, what is probably ♥♥♥♥tier is the fact that families cannot take care of them, due to a multitude of issues, leading to miserable lives.

Pregnancies can be dangerous and endanger the life of both the mother and the child. In those instances, there is often no choice BUT to have an abortion.

Pregnancies induced by rape had no say on the woman's part, almost always have no contraception, and is an extreme emotional baggage on the woman who has to carry and care for over 18 years a child who is half of her attacker, but did nothing wrong on their own part.

And sometimes, people just make mistakes, and can't take care of the child.

The state that many children, even in the United States, live in, is appauling. Many people can't take care of the child, or have the ability to reliably make sure that their needs are being met. Since we have no feasible alternative, perhaps a mercy killing before they have their first breath is more compassionate than letting them suffer through a childhood.

Anyone who knows what horrors goes on in foster care, such as some of my friends, would tell you how important it is to have a choice. How damaging being raised in foster homes can be. How unregulated and monsterous they can be. Sometimes, there IS no more compassionate alternative than death.

Abortions should be a choice, and it's not an easy choice, but it's a choice that has to be made sometimes.

 

[Euphoric]

I believe Levitt and Dubner, in Freakonomics, made an interesting case that abortion reduces crime because children that would've been born would have been more likely to become criminals, because of their families being unable to support them. This is the same thing with children of teen parents.

That's one of the reasons I'm pro-choice. It's also because, if the person is raped, they definitely shouldn't have to take care of the child. And the mother's health comes first. I agree with daigonite's post above.

@BadPokemon: What if the family is Buddhist or Hindu, or some other faith that doesn't believe in the Abrahamic God?

 

[BadPokemon]

The problem with the pro life argument is that while everyone agrees that baby killing is generally a pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing to do, what is probably ♥♥♥♥tier is the fact that families cannot take care of them, due to a multitude of issues, leading to miserable lives.

Pregnancies can be dangerous and endanger the life of both the mother and the child. In those instances, there is often no choice BUT to have an abortion.

Pregnancies induced by rape had no say on the woman's part, almost always have no contraception, and is an extreme emotional baggage on the woman who has to carry and care for over 18 years a child who is half of her attacker, but did nothing wrong on their own part.

And sometimes, people just make mistakes, and can't take care of the child.

The state that many children, even in the United States, live in, is appauling. Many people can't take care of the child, or have the ability to reliably make sure that their needs are being met. Since we have no feasible alternative, perhaps a mercy killing before they have their first breath is more compassionate than letting them suffer through a childhood.

Anyone who knows what horrors goes on in foster care, such as some of my friends, would tell you how important it is to have a choice. How damaging being raised in foster homes can be. How unregulated and monsterous they can be. Sometimes, there IS no more compassionate alternative than death.

Abortions should be a choice, and it's not an easy choice, but it's a choice that has to be made sometimes.

Put the baby up for adoption, at least. Did you read the quote? It is an extremely rare case and even then we have the technology to save them. Google abortion images. You'll see how abortion is killing the baby. DONT if you are grossed out by blood and guts and stuff.

98% of abortions are for convenience! That's ridiculous. Just don't you know what! Many people who have had abortions regret it and suffer from emotional problems.

I believe Levitt and Dubner, in Freakonomics, made an interesting case that abortion reduces crime because children that would've been born would have been more likely to become criminals, because of their families being unable to support them. This is the same thing with children of teen parents.

That's one of the reasons I'm pro-choice. It's also because, if the person is raped, they definitely shouldn't have to take care of the child. And the mother's health comes first. I agree with daigonite's post above.

@BadPokemon: What if the family is Buddhist or Hindu, or some other faith that doesn't believe in the Abrahamic God?

The mothers health? They are taking the life of a baby, the mothers health is fine, no offense. Is killing people to reduce crime ok? So how is killing a bunch of babies to reduce crime, fine? What about the Buddhist or Hindu families?

 

[Euphoric]

The mothers health? They are taking the life of a baby, the mothers health is fine, no offense. Is killing people to reduce crime ok? So how is killing a bunch of babies to reduce crime, fine? What about the Buddhist or Hindu families?

You said "Every baby deserves a chance at life. A chance to have a relationship with God. " What if the family doesn't believe in God?

 

[twocows]

Christians call it murder, when they don't realize that Christians have killed off more Jews alone than that child will see in it's whole lifetime. Hell, they've killed off more Jews than three children will see just human beings in their whole lifetime. So is the murder of one ZYGOTE more important than repenting for the billions of people killed by Christian crusades and genocide?

Uh, I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. Are you trying to imply that the pro-life people are going out murdering millions of Jews? Because not every Christian went out and participated in the Holocaust. In fact, significantly over 50% of them didn't participate and some actively worked against it. And that really has nothing to do with modern arguments about pro-life or pro-choice. At all. You're basically taking a "Hitler wore boots" argument (already a logical fallacy) to the most extreme I've ever seen it taken to before.

I'm pro-choice and an atheist, but that paragraph there is probably the single most absurd combination of words I've seen in weeks, and I've been hanging out on the IRC channel, so that's something. I really think you should rethink what you're saying.

 

[Timbjerr]

As a male, my opinion is generally invalid to begin with, but there's one thing I like to mention in abortion debates. When my mother was pregnant with me, her doctor recommended an abortion because the pregnancy would certainly kill both of us. My mother, being the strict Catholic she is, chose to keep carrying anyways and we're both definitely still alive. Miracles do happen sometimes.

Otherwise, I genuinely despise abortion debates because they ultimately devolve into pro-choicers accusing pro-lifers of being misogynists and pro-lifers accusing pro-choicers of infanticide. For the record, I'm generally apathetic on the issue, but I lean towards pro-choice and believe that life starts at conception.

 

[Star-Lord]

There are no other legal statutes which require the surrender of your body to another person and I do not understand how unborn babies are somehow the exception.

 

[New Eden]

My opinion on this will change until kingdom come, but I think it's fine until the heart starts beating...I'm also supportive in the event that it's harmful to the mother, as well as cases of rape. Other than that, my view on it is rather bleak, but that's largely because of my dumb father who didn't want me.

 

[Fernbutter]

*sigh* Sometimes I wish you can be a neutral party. But considering that most people are complete idiots and just a waste of space and time in every form or manner, there are two outcomes if they reproduce, that their child will be exactly like them, maybe even worse, or they could be treated really badly and the child will suffer because of it. And assuming that abortion is completely allowed then the major population problems (pollution, over population, over inflation for various reasons, waste of resources, and plenty of other things) then I would definitely go with allowing abortion. [PRO ABORTION]

Then again just so I won't repeat the answers of most people, everyone deserves a chance to live and change the world in their own way, and since that abortion in a technical sense considers to be murder because it isn't anyone's right to ever take another's life, and also a tonne of other abominable things. So I would choose the latter. [ANTI ABORTION]

 

[BadPokemon]

You said "Every baby deserves a chance at life. A chance to have a relationship with God. " What if the family doesn't believe in God?

I said a chance to have a relationship with God. If the family doesn't believe in God, then the baby grows up atheist or something. That baby can still have a chance to have a relationship with God.

 

[lozzop]

Abortion should be legal in my opinion, I get that other people want a baby to get the chance to live and all, but the baby is not alive until it's born. As well as that abortion is usually because the mother can't cope with the stress of having a child, she should get a chance at life to, 9 months pregnant with a child you can't even care for is stressful physically, emotionally and mentally, especially if that mother is in high school or something. And in my opinion those 9 months of the mothers life which could possibly affect the rest of her life to, are more important than a fetus. In the end it's her body, not yours, she gets to decide what happens to it, and if she decides that pushing a small human out of her after carrying it around for 9 months is too much, then don't interfere with her choice, it's not like people just decide these things in a few seconds, it's probably very traumatic to get an abortion as well.

But should abortion be illegal, i think it should also be made illegal for a man to abandon a woman after she becomes pregnant, if women can't back out of a pregnancy then men shouldn't be allowed to back out either.

 

[BadPokemon]

Abortion should be legal in my opinion, I get that other people want a baby to get the chance to live and all, but the baby is not alive until it's born. As well as that abortion is usually because the mother can't cope with the stress of having a child, she should get a chance at life to, 9 months pregnant with a child you can't even care for is stressful physically, emotionally and mentally, especially if that mother is in high school or something. And in my opinion those 9 months of the mothers life which could possibly affect the rest of her life to, are more important than a fetus. In the end it's her body, not yours, she gets to decide what happens to it, and if she decides that pushing a small human out of her after carrying it around for 9 months is too much, then don't interfere with her choice, it's not like people just decide these things in a few seconds, it's probably very traumatic to get an abortion as well.

But should abortion be illegal, i think it should also be made illegal for a man to abandon a woman after she becomes pregnant, if women can't back out of a pregnancy then men shouldn't be allowed to back out either.

Having an abortion can also hurt the mother and possibly prevent her from a having a healthy baby in the future. It hurts her in other ways because many mothers who have abortions regret it terribly later in life. The baby has a heartbeat at 6 weeks. Explain how that isn't alive. It is a cell the moment the sperm and egg meet. It isn't a dead cell, therefore it is alive and is a baby.

 

[lozzop]

Having an abortion can also hurt the mother and possibly prevent her from a having a healthy baby in the future. It hurts her in other ways because many mothers who have abortions regret it terribly later in life. The baby has a heartbeat at 6 weeks. Explain how that isn't alive. It is a cell the moment the sperm and egg meet. It isn't a dead cell, therefore it is alive and is a baby.

Yes I agree it can also hurt her in other ways in the future, but in the present it's going to do a lot more damage to her mentally and emotionally, especially if she is being forced to have the child against her will, because abortions aren't an option. It's my opinion that conception is not when life begins, a heartbeat isn't life it's survival, and if other women also agree with this then they should have the option to abort the baby and have a normal and mentally positive life, if they are forced to have the baby then this normal life is going to be incredibly difficult to achieve.

 

[Centipede Chan]

For me it depends on who is getting the abortion. Example:
-People who contribute trash to society and having kids severely under aged or under prepared.
-If they don't want the baby but don't want someone else raising their own child.

I know quite a few people who just party, have sex, and do drugs all the time who plan on kids before 17. And they don't have a plan to be able to handle the kids because they think they can just do whatever.

Also if I had a child under age I would definitely want my girlfriend to have an abortion. And if not then I'm pretty screwed to be honest But I can't even be with someone physically most of them time so I have no idea what sex is

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

The mothers health? They are taking the life of a baby, the mothers health is fine, no offense. Is killing people to reduce crime ok? So how is killing a bunch of babies to reduce crime, fine? What about the Buddhist or Hindu families?

Woah, dude, that's not how it works. Have you ever heard of pregnancy complications? One reason to have an abortion is because the fetus is implanted in a tissue, such as the fallopian tubes, where it can harm or kill the mother. All sorts of other complications can happen, which DEFINITELY risk the life of the mother. The mother's health is NOT ALWAYS FINE.

NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT ABORTING BABIES TO REDUCE CRIME. However, if you knew a thing or two about foster homes you would understand why perhaps giving people the opportunity to prevent that person from living in the first place as opposed to pulling out the "omg just throw them up for adoption" excuse fails so hard on so many levels. Most foster homes are woefully underfinanced and often are in the lower rungs of society. There are many children who will never be adopted because of this or that or the other, and it is every bit as depressing as it sounds.

Having an abortion can also hurt the mother and possibly prevent her from a having a healthy baby in the future. It hurts her in other ways because many mothers who have abortions regret it terribly later in life. The baby has a heartbeat at 6 weeks. Explain how that isn't alive. It is a cell the moment the sperm and egg meet. It isn't a dead cell, therefore it is alive and is a baby.

While this is true, this is also the decision of the mother/father/family involved. There's a lot of procedures that can cause severe complications. Take lung implants for example. Lung implants are hard to do because they will eventually always be rejected by the recipient, which means death. Does that mean we should ban all lung implants? Hell NO. There are cases where lung implants will save someone's life. There are cases where abortions can save people's lives too.

Also, technically, my egg cells and your sperm are "alive" too, so every time I have a period and every time you have a wet dream we "murder" a "potential baby". You know what's also human and alive? HeLa cells.

Please please please do your freaking research before jumping on things.

It's not up to your rosaries and holy book to tell me what I can do with my body. If god was so intent on having every conception provide life, he wouldn't be so cruel to create stillborn babies in the first place anyhow.

 

[finalrayne]

I saw a couple christian posts... Sometimes it makes me regret growing up one but God gave man free will if someone chooses to have an abortion it's their choice. If a christian says otherwise they are going against what their God tells them everyone has free will and that gives them the choice to do what they want.

 

[£]

There are many parents in my area that were not ready to be parents. I'm sure if I introduced you all to those offspring, the viewpoint on abortion for those families that are not capable of raising a child in their current states would shift drastically.

Good ol' classic "common sense vs tradition." If I were killed because I wasn't going to be raised well by my parents, I wouldn't begrudge it. I wouldn't want to be adopted; I'm sure some people have had good experiences of it, and I'm sure others have had bad experiences of it. Not a gamble I'd fancy. Much rather have a gamble that involves a potential silver spoon, heh heh.

The world's not big enough for all of us as it is~ Bet if there were a few more abortions going on; we wouldn't have actually had to form the word "chav" in our language.

 

[Poki]

In my opinion, I think that people are allowed to do whatever the ♥♥♥♥ they want with their bodies, and it's none of anyone's business.