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Absolute Evil?

Shanghai Alice

Exiled to Siberia
1,069
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13
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  • Morality is subjective. Good and evil are just concepts that humans have come up with in order to communicate better.
    No, my friend, that is incorrect.

    What is "good" and what is "evil" are not relative. They do not change based on viewpoint, and they are non-negotiable.

    The main problem in this thread seems to be confusing "evil" for "culpability", when the two things could not be more different.

    For example, let's take a look at the stereotypical serial killer, a mentally deranged individual who commits murder for pleasure or gratification.

    Now, a majority of the time, the individual realizes that their actions are reprehensible and socially unacceptable (for example, the Son of Sam), but such hesitations are usually overruled by psychological impulses.

    In this case, while the act itself is evil (killing another human being for gratification), the culpability, the actual "relative" portion, is heavily reduced. The killer has a near-addiction to murder, and, therefore, has much of his freedom taken away by insanity.

    However, as said, the act is still "evil". Almost every, if not absolutely every, rational human being would state that, at its core, such an act is intolerable.

    That is why we have a justice system, and that is why we attempt to instill morals into children. You can rationalize and excuse as much as you please, but it cannot, and will not, change the fact that human beings still possess an inherent nature of "good" or "evil".


    Granted, there are several gray areas due to cultural differences, but the spectrum still exists.
     

    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
    4,307
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  • To you, and I'm sure a majority of the people on this planet, myself included. But not to everyone, plain and simple.
    It doesn't matter how they feel about it, it's inherently evil, given our definition of the word "evil." If you mean "socially unacceptable," then yeah, it might not be such to them, because what that means varies between social groups. But it's still "evil" because the definition of the word "evil" isn't relative, it's absolute.

    What I'm saying is evil is evil for the sake of evil. Basically, it's evil for evil and evil only. Like I said, an act can be evil (like killing a person just for the heck of it) but a person cannot be absolutely evil. Every person has a conscience. He or she may not just be able to feel it. So even if they knowingly committed evil, that doesn't mean the person himself is entirely evil, but the act is pure evil.



    Hitler wanted 'a somewhat better world' or whatever for Germans and even if it was a very crazy reason, in his opinion, it was good for everyone and therefore committed what he thought to be good. Some of Hitler's acts may be considered pure evil but Hitler still had a conscience. Just a rusty one which he merely ignored.
    As far as I can tell, I never said otherwise. So, let me do just that: there are evil people in the world. There are people who commit evil acts, who know those acts are evil and do it regardless because it brings them joy. It's possible that there may be something screwed up in their heads, I'll leave that for the psychologists to figure out. Regardless, those people are definitely evil. Luckily, as far as I know there aren't too many of them.

    As for someone like Hitler, I'd say that's more "misguided." Someone who is misguided does evil but believes they are doing the right thing. I'd wager most evil is done by these people simply because there are more of them. Hitler wanted to restore Germany to its glory; he felt any means to accomplish this was justified. He didn't really care about good or evil, he cared about fulfilling his mission.

    That doesn't exonerate him, though. He still did things that are "evil" on a massive scale and needed to be dealt with in some way (though I'm not saying I agree with how the rest of the world ended up dealing with him). Whether he did it intentionally or it just arose as a result of accomplishing his mission doesn't really change that (it might change the best way to deal with him, though).
     

    arbok

    cobra pokemon
    196
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    • Seen Mar 10, 2013
    Intresting thought here.
    I view acts as evil but not people. Murder and other such crimes are evil but the person comiting them is not nessisarily. Absolute evil people, to me, only exist in fiction and even then they're rare to come by as most bad guys will justify their actions at least to themselves and thus not doing it to be evil.
     
    3
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    • Seen Jan 30, 2012
    the person who performed the action, thought it was. Our deeds may be coloured "evil" by outside observers, but they can only be coloured "absolutely evil" by the moral standards we set for ourselves.
     

    J

    good morning
    420
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    • Seen Jun 21, 2016
    i-it's not like i c-care about your discussion or anything ! i-i-i was just cleaning out my keyboard when the keys i accidentally pressed just happened to type up this brief exposition! it's not like i did it for you; d-don't misunderstand, okay!?

    Insofar as we are rational beings imbued with the aptitude for reason, instilled with the capacity to suffer pain, burdened with a taste for pleasure, and eternally imprisoned within the folds of a generally indifferent universe - if we are to make our fleeting, temporal stay in this mortal coil the least bit tolerable, we must impose unto ourselves a set of ethics ("habits," or "character,") to govern ourselves as a species so as to reduce our suffering, and to unite ourselves against the unsympathetic elements that oppose us – for no one's sake but our own. Without morals or laws, such chaos and anarchy would befall us as a whole that the entire process of living can only be seen as a constant stream of suffering to the benefit of those who are deemed "strong" and "fit" in the Spencerist tradition. To say that morals are dependent on the observer will result in the man with the fewest principles reigning supreme – a "rule of the rule-less," so to speak.

    You see, what I am doing here is that I am defining "good" and "evil" to be concepts that are within us, made by us, and designed for us– and us alone. This way we won't have to look to the alignment of the planets or eclipses of the sun or whatever to tell us how we should act; we won't have to prowl the cosmos for meaning, for reason, or for our laws – for what meaning, reason, or law that the Universe may provide can possibly satisfy us? For that matter, why should the Universe provide us with such meaning, such reason, or such laws, at all?

    An absolute good can then be defined as the best rational principle that avoids pain as far as is possible, and brings maximum happiness, while simultaneously satisfying the essential "traits" that all rational beings share. This definition, then, depends on the static definition of what it is that constitutes a rational being. (In this way, our absolutes will not have to be dependent on the social atmosphere of the times, which is not absolute.) Then, "absolute evil" will be the opposite of this absolute good; bringing the maximum suffering and minimum happiness. But of course, since we humans are a crazily complex species, it should be no surprise that this absolute code should be more complex than anything we have the power to imagine. It is an "optimization", so to speak.

    This line of thought looks an awful lot like utilitarianism, of which I am not very much a supporter. This is probably because it foreshadows the so-called "pleasure calculus," which probably first appeared in the writings of Bentham. But Bentham's algorithms dealt with numbers, elements and vectors, not humans. We must beware of thinking of human emotions as a set of numbers and the like; to impose so logical a system on an inherently illogical species.
    Well, insofar as we do not yet have in our hands the definitive, absolute good, we can all live adhering to certain principles that perhaps allude to this absolute good. So far I've found that basing one's actions in the three-way principle of knowledge, reason, and goodwill to be rather effective.

    There are some finer points that I can go into to fish out the exact method of determining the "goodness" of things, but all I needed to demonstrate here was the existence of absolute morals.

    Also, I noticed that while the OP was asking about the existence of a "real, absolute and objective evil ," but he did not require that our definition be universal.

    Morality is subjective. Good and evil are just concepts that humans have come up with in order to communicate better.

    Subjectivity is not necessarily a trait of man-made concepts.
    Physics models were invented by humans as a systematical means to describe the mechanisms of the world we live in. But to say that physics is subjective will probably only serve to make you look silly and/or ignorant. The expression for work in classical mechanics is defined to be the integral of an external force as a function of time dot product displacement. This cannot be disputed because it is defined to be so.

    For a better illustration, we can look to language. The English language is a human construct, but the sentence "I like eat apple" is undoubtedly wrong - grammatically- as far as the English language is concerned.

    In case you still have doubts, consider this:
    "I think that I am a hamburger."
    Whether or not I actually am a hamburger can be disputed, but that I am thinking that I am a hamburger cannot.
     
    Last edited:
    11
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    • Seen Sep 5, 2012
    The definition of "Evil" changes as the generations come and go.

    So what really is "Absolute Evil" if it changes as time progresses?
     
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