All fire starters stand on 2 legs

[BettyNewbie]

Actually it's 11 years. RS came out in Japan in 2002, XY came out 2013. So it's closer to 10 than 15 xD.

Talk about pointless nitpicking. :rolleyes2: Besides, the last games to not have a Fire/Fighting starter before XY were GSC (1999/2000), so, yes, it WAS close to 15 years between non-Fire/Fighting starters.

I can easily understand. It's like Game Freak is giving off the impression that they don't want to use many secondary types due to being "too powerful" so they're sticking to middle-of-the-road power category such as Ground and Fighting, when those types are actually used quite often competitively due to their coverage.

I don't get this argument. Again, I could see Dragon being too powerful for a starter, but I don't see what the issue with other types would be. As you said, Ground and Fighting are actually quite powerful types themselves, and we also previously had a starter that was Steel (Empoleon), another powerful type.

Of course, I get the impression that GF increasingly wants people to abandon their starters after a certain point in the game just like an early game rodent or cocoon bug. This was especially the case in Gen 5, where the starters had mediocre stats and movepools (and two were mediocre monotypes) and were outclassed by tons of things found later in the games. Even in XY, they literally hand you a Kanto starter (and Mega Stone) early on, as if they're just begging you to eventually ditch your Kalos starter.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Talk about pointless nitpicking. :rolleyes2: Besides, the last games to not have a Fire/Fighting starter before XY were GSC (1999/2000), so, yes, it WAS close to 15 years between non-Fire/Fighting starters.



I don't get this argument. Again, I could see Dragon being too powerful for a starter, but I don't see what the issue with other types would be. As you said, Ground and Fighting are actually quite powerful types themselves, and we also previously had a starter that was Steel (Empoleon), another powerful type.

Of course, I get the impression that GF increasingly wants people to abandon their starters after a certain point in the game just like an early game rodent or cocoon bug. This was especially the case in Gen 5, where the starters had mediocre stats and movepools (and two were mediocre monotypes) and were outclassed by tons of things found later in the games. Even in XY, they literally hand you a Kanto starter (and Mega Stone) early on, as if they're just begging you to eventually ditch your Kalos starter.

I love Serperior but you're right about it's mediocre stats and typing. Not to mention it's move pool.Going by that then it can also be interpreted as 8 years of Fire/Fighting since 2002-2010 (Gen V). You did say 15 years of Fire/Fighting being 'tradition' in your original post. 15 is far worse than 11 or 8, even if it's a lot.

I just remembered this, I'm not sure if it's because of the internet not being as big back in the day, but no one seems to have complained about having Four Water mascots four generations in a row, the first three of those four having the blend typing of pure water. That right there is as bad as the part Fighting starters.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I just remembered this, I'm not sure if it's because of the internet not being as big back in the day, but no one seems to have complained about having Four Water mascots four generations in a row, the first three of those four having the blend typing of pure water. That right there is as bad as the part Fighting starters.

I think far fewer people had an issue with that because one of those pure Water mascots was a starter (Blastoise), another a weaker trio legendary (Suicune), and the other a stronger box legendary (Kyogre).

Now, RSE's (and later, XY's) blatant reuse of Gen 1's color scheme, on the other hand...

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I think far fewer people had an issue with that because one of those pure Water mascots was a starter (Blastoise), another a weaker trio legendary (Suicune), and the other a stronger box legendary (Kyogre).

Now, RSE's (and later, XY's) blatant reuse of Gen 1's color scheme, on the other hand...

RSE wasn't so bad in that they changed the green one to the third one while in Japan Blastoise took that position, plus the lines on them kind of mixed things up with yellow on Ray and red on Kyo, but Groudon's look black. Now Xerneas, Yvetal, and Zygarde are a blant copy of RSE take on RGB's color scheme. Well maybe that's the reason Z was skipped, they wanted to dodge that bullet xD. But honestly Zygarde felt like the most blant Rayquaza expy.

Oh well, at least people complained about all the Dragon mascots we got starting with Emerald and finally up to White 2. Hmm, maybe GF didn't want another Dragon mascot either :P

 

[BettyNewbie]

Oh well, at least people complained about all the Dragon mascots we got starting with Emerald and finally up to White 2. Hmm, maybe GF didn't want another Dragon mascot either :P

Dragon mascots are extremely overdone, and I'll be tempted to punch somebody if either Solgaleo or (more likely) Lunaala turns out to be one.

Also, can we stop it with the mascot legendary trios, especially if third versions and sequels are getting retired? GF is going to have to break formulas if they want the franchise to survive.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I don't see anything particularly wrong with a third mascot, as long as they cover that mascot's story within a reasonable (your mileage may vary with this) degree in the initial games. Obviously X/Y didn't do a very good job with this, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that one set of games so far is going to spell out precisely what's going to happen in each following game afterwards.

Well, outside of XY's own storytelling problems, mascot trios in general are just overdone by now. The plot of every single game since RSE has centered around a warring legendary trio (and an evil team that wants to use them to rule the world), and if XY are any indication, that plot's just worn itself out by now. There's only so many variations you can do of the same thing before it just becomes tiring and formulaic.

(And, the Sun/Moon theme, especially, runs a huge risk of turning into a RSE retread, which I'd rather not happen with the special 20th Anniversary games.)

 

[Rivvon]

All Grass starters are reptiles. Well, were--up until Chespin, that is.

Yeah, maybe Litten will turn out walking on two legs, but there's a chance Litten will be the first Fire starter to remain quadruped, too.

 

[Hedo]

Hmmm, let's see here... What other kitty pokemon can stand on two legs...?

I'm okay with this. Litten can me like my personal Meowth replacement.

 

[BettyNewbie]

My concern is this, and it's definitely something to ponder about: is a tried and true formula really the best way to go? As repetitive as it may seem, does it "flow" (for lack of a better term) well, and does it have a more positive effect than if the mascot legendary trios were to have a neutral relationship with each other? In X/Y we saw an example of a legendary trio with a neutral relationship with each other, and that didn't bode well for those who wanted Z to help tie up loose ends to explain exactly what kind of relationship there was, if there was even one at all.

So far, we haven't had a legendary trio that has had a "positive" relationship since..G/S/C maybe? (I'd argue Suicune is neutral towards Lugia/Ho-oh but idk, I actually think they're all neutral towards each other), so that may make a return this generation, and it'd be a welcome includion in my eyes, if anything.

Well, I thought RBY and GSC did just fine without any legendary trio plots (I am an older fan, though, mind you), but on the other hand, it could be argued that the Gen 1-2 legendaries got pretty shafted storywise. Mewtwo had nothing besides a few journal entries in Cinnabar Mansion, while Ho-Oh and the Johto Dogs only got a little bit of story via Crystal's side plot. Lugia and the Kanto Birds got absolutely zilch and were nothing more than bonus dungeon sidequests.

However, I don't see why we can't still get more fleshed-out legendaries without recycling the tired old trio formula from RSE. Maybe postgame stories (like the Delta Episode from those games' very remakes) could be a way to do it.

 

[Keiran]

I don't think this is something Gamefreak does on purpose.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

It's interesting that you point this out, actually. X/Y didn't have a warring trio at all...they seemed to have the legendary trio that more or less minded their own business on the grand scheme of things. I definitely agree that it's overused however, and if the legendary trio relationships are to continue for the foreseeable future, then it would need to be reworked before it gets extremely stale.

My concern is this, and it's definitely something to ponder about: is a tried and true formula really the best way to go? As repetitive as it may seem, does it "flow" (for lack of a better term) well, and does it have a more positive effect than if the mascot legendary trios were to have a neutral relationship with each other? In X/Y we saw an example of a legendary trio with a neutral relationship with each other, and that didn't bode well for those who wanted Z to help tie up loose ends to explain exactly what kind of relationship there was, if there was even one at all.

So far, we haven't had a legendary trio that has had a "positive" relationship since..G/S/C maybe? (I'd argue Suicune is neutral towards Lugia/Ho-oh but idk, I actually think they're all neutral towards each other), so that may make a return this generation, and it'd be a welcome inclusion in my eyes, if anything.

Actually in the games the creation trio didn't fight, only the anime. So far only the Weather and Tao trios have the warring dynamic in game.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I kinda counted the anime since they did have a negative relationship with one another. In the games this wasn't the case, and if it wasn't for Giratina interrupting in Platinum, they probably would've fought each other, anyway. For the purposes of the creation trio, I interpret the anime to be what would've happened in the games anyway if circumstances were different, if that makes sense.

Cyrus would need them to work together I imagine, rather than to fight. Now I can see Xerneas and Yvetal fighting it out like in the anime.

The anime love having the mascots battle, they even had Ho-oh and Lugia fight in a trailer for what would be the Zoroark movie (obviously it didn't make the final cut).

 

[Draggy101]

Hmmm, let's see here... What other kitty pokemon can stand on two legs...?

I'm okay with this. Litten can me like my personal Meowth replacement.

Purrlion too. They both evolved to quadruped form, that is.

 

[Hedo]

Purrlion too. They both evolved to quadruped form, that is.

Oh, it must have slipped mah noggin :0

 

[James169]

Well, outside of XY's own storytelling problems, mascot trios in general are just overdone by now. The plot of every single game since RSE has centered around a warring legendary trio (and an evil team that wants to use them to rule the world), and if XY are any indication, that plot's just worn itself out by now. There's only so many variations you can do of the same thing before it just becomes tiring and formulaic.

(And, the Sun/Moon theme, especially, runs a huge risk of turning into a RSE retread, which I'd rather not happen with the special 20th Anniversary games.)

Do you ever go to the cinema? Every film is one of 7 stories, just a few bits changed.
Ever played a fps? Same thing. GTA games, the same. Sports games, the same.

 

[Hikamaru]

Well, outside of XY's own storytelling problems, mascot trios in general are just overdone by now. The plot of every single game since RSE has centered around a warring legendary trio (and an evil team that wants to use them to rule the world), and if XY are any indication, that plot's just worn itself out by now. There's only so many variations you can do of the same thing before it just becomes tiring and formulaic.

(And, the Sun/Moon theme, especially, runs a huge risk of turning into a RSE retread, which I'd rather not happen with the special 20th Anniversary games.)

I can agree with this, if XY's poor treatment is to go by I am kinda hoping SM go back to a simple legendary duo of just Solgaleo and Lunaala with no third mascot and with Game Freak planning to go back to simple roots, at least in regards to the Pokemon I hope they can do this.