Amateurish sites?

[Thomas]

Right. Don't go to Serebii for a day and we'll see where you get your stupid pokemon info. Aren't all the other crap sites here based on Serebii? HA!

Yeah, cause I give a crap about Pokemon anymore.

 

[Lord Kokkei]

yeah, that's why you still hang out at a pokemon forum

 

[Serebii]

go learn some REAL website designing before replying again.

If that is in response to me, I'll have you know I have a degree in this so I know what I'm on about.

 

[Cherrim]

Come on, guys, cool it. I'm somewhat sure you can discuss this without attacking one another or each other's sites. Prove it to me.

(In other words, any more personal attacks or similar and this thread is closed.)

 

[Lord Kokkei]

Really. Guess you didn't learn too well.

 

[Gymnotide]

Have you ever seen some amateurish sites? If you did, what does a typical amateurish site look like?
For me, an amateurish site has a tiled background image, and animated GIF for "Email me button", full of <font> tags, deprecated attributes, clip arts, no layout, and no CSS.
Here's a typical amateurish site:
https://members.shaw.ca/mstrott/
and
https://buizel.net/Index2.htm (no CSS and a BG image)
That site has full of font tags such as "<font face="Footlight MT Light" size="3">", the author should use CSS instead.

You have to admit that this page is amazing, though:
https://buizel.net/anything/error/error_messages.htm

Eh, at least the layout is clean. Who cares otherwise?

 

[Serebii]

Really. Guess you didn't learn too well.

No, I know everything perfectly fine thank you very much. I just don't have the time nor the patience to go and edit over a million pages just to be compliant by some internet geek's standards.

 

[Tyler]

You don't have the time or patience? wtf? If you make something big like Pokearth or all your other pages then you must have time on your hands to validate your pages.

 

[Ooka]

No, I know everything perfectly fine thank you very much. I just don't have the time nor the patience to go and edit over a million pages just to be compliant by some internet geek's standards.

Honestly, you can't be calling members internet geeks and not be hypocritical just a bit, I mean, you do run one of the largest Pokemon web sites to date, which tends to get updated just about every day. Although I guess you never said you weren't one... :/

But all that aside, not every webmaster needs to have perfect coding, or perfect designs, what they need to have is good information that gets the point across. Admittedly, designs do attract more members, but honestly, that isn't what keeps them there, what keeps them there is efficient information that keeps them in the loop with whatever they need to know.

[/opinion]

 

[Serebii]

You don't have the time or patience? wtf? If you make something big like Pokearth or all your other pages then you must have time on your hands to validate your pages.

Because new things are new, which attract and interest people

Altering millions of pages to be compliant? Who the hell cares. Simple as that.

I'd rather use my time on things that people care about ather than something that does not even show a visual change.

 

[Tyler]

Well I'm sure if you fix all your pages, you site will be tons faster. As I have fast internet like T1, or T3 I don't remember, but your site takes forever to load for me.

 

[Serebii]

The loading speed error was fixed ages ago. The site is super fast. Always has been, except when games just came out.

The forums were an issue, but since the server move last month, they're fine.

 

[Lord Kokkei]

Arrogant as ever, are we still? Even if it is fast, it's not compliant with the web 2.0 HIG. It's clunky, old, and inefficient. Maybe you are rich, I don't know, but I would make my site lighter and save some server money to fix the forums.

 

[Serebii]

Modesty is just lying to yourself and to others.

The forums ARE fixed. There are no problems anymore and everything is fast. I do not need to waste my time with something that will yeild barely any results

 

[GKS]

Serebii, you site and forum is awesome, it loads good enough for me.

 

[Lord Kokkei]

Arrogance will lead to your downfall. Remember my words.

 

[Serebii]

Without arrogance, you are relegated to the area of mediocrity. You cannot get anywhere in life with modesty.

 

[processr]

I'm not exactly a supporter of Serebii - indeed, I have criticised the site in the past - but how can anyone say that the site is amateurish? The site has masses of content, is regularly updated and is on a stable server. While I don't particularly like or dislike the layout, it's perfectly fine, but most peoples' opinions of Serebii are based on past events. It's been admitted that Serebii Joe has acquired information second-hand, shall we say, in the past, but we're assured he does it no longer. I, for one, believe him. The only incident to have really put any dent in Serebii's reputation is the fake Skymin made by PurpleKecleon that was reported as news, but even then I remember that it was explicitly stated as unconfirmed. How anyone can say Serebii is amateurish is beyond me.

Oh, and Lord Kokkei, as for not using Serebii for a day, I don't use it at all. Bulbapedia and Veekun are my main sources, but there exist far more than that.

 

[Stronkadonk]

Serebii is a GOOD website, and I commonly go to it.
How can you think it is a terrible site, yet it is well-organized, runs on vBulletin, and is busy with tons of members all the time?
Now, a true amateurish site is one with barely any members, one without layout, one that has no style, just a plain text box to say Hi or something such as that in, and is just an overall pain to look at.
Serebii is definitely not that.

 

[Mrchewy]

First off, some background: I've been an administrator on a site that was similar size to this (I think I've stated this a few months back) and have experienced quite a bit of what it's like to deal with large websites and communities. I also have sufficient web design knowledge and can code fluently in XHTML, CSS and semi-fluent PHP. I am very familiar with the ins-and-outs of web standards, too.

Lord Kokkei, I have to say, you're horribly misguided. You speak of Web 2.0 and W3C standards as if they are the be-all end-all of website design. Yes, coding by standards is always preferable and yes webmasters should try to follow them, but with a site like Serebii with thousands and thousands of pages, revamping them to match these relatively new web guidelines would be a futile task. It's been already said, but the time spent doing it would be much better off being spent adding to the content - especially since Serebii is driven entirely by content.

You say Serebii is ineffecient. How so? If I wanted to, say, visit a page about the D/P Elite Four, it takes me TWO logical clicks: Diamond/Pearl --- > Elite Four. Exactly the way it should be, and that's just one example. You say Serebii is old. This is ridiculous and irrelevant. My grandma's old, does that mean we get rid of her and replace her? You say Serebii is clunky. Albeit, while this is true, it is also inevitable considering the sheer amount of pages that need to be constantly referenced. For the most part, the server speed also makes up for this fact.

By spending dozens of hours validating the entire site, it would do what, exactly? Cut load times by 0.2 seconds? Hardly worth it, at all. Contrary to what your little webinars and keynotes have told you, Web 2.0 and web standards aren't always necessary, and often by following these standards the users won't see any benefit.

Also, calling Serebii arrogant is also a bit rich. You seem blissfully ignorant as to what running a site of that caliber takes, and considering you've got no experience yourself, I'd stop telling him how to do things. Your know-it-all attitude really is driving me up the wall.

If it's not broken, don't fix it.