Animals or People?

[The Scientist]

Back when Pokemon first came out, they were treated as animals. I mean, they hunted and ate one another (Pidgey's old PokeDex entry mentioned that it ate Magikarp), and only a select few Pokemon could completely understand and comprehend human speech, namely psychic-types, Ninetales, and Dragonite. Regarding death, they did, in fact, show a Metapod get cut in half, not to mention the Rockets' killing of the Cubones in the Ghost Tower. They even left [fossilized] droppings!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGOUTG9WM8 <- check out 08:10. You wouldn't hear a Trainer mention killing an opponent's Pokemon nowadays.

One interesting thing I noticed is that in the episode where the S.S. Anne sank, you could see fish swimming around through one of the portholes. Not fish Pokemon, plain. old. fish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI17W5M0mBU <- Check out 03:08
Back then, the world didn't completely revolve around human-Pokemon interaction... And apparently, there were other, normal, animals that shared the world with people.



The new series seem to have taken a completely different direction, though: they started adding more human dimensions to Pokemon, such as the introduction of personalities, affinities for flavors of candy, and a more widespread capacity to understand speech (hold a conversation with people, only limited by their physical inability to use human language). They feel emotions more strongly than their First Gen counterparts, and never seem to get seriously injured. They almost never attack maliciously people, like those Spearow on Ash in the second episode, or the Beedrill in episode 4... And just look at the intro shorts to the Pokemon movies... those aren't animals running around, those are little people in funny suits!

Not to mention that the entire Universe, time, space, and Earth were supposedly created by Pokemon... Back in the earlier days, there was no mention of Pokemon being superior to humans in any way...

Did you prefer when Pokemon were just smart animals, or how they are portrayed now as conscious, humanlike [or even god-like] beings? Or maybe you don't see this distinction?

Discuss the change in Pokemon representation from then to now.

Edit: I found two episodes to use as references.

 

[BenjiTheKid]

" personalities, affinities for flavors of candy"

Coming from someone who owns 11 animals and has farmers for grandparents, trust me, animals have those, too. For example: my dog, Sandy, LOVES lamb. But will NOT touch turkey. My bird, Angel, LOVES lettuce- but won't touch tomato. My guinea pig (now passed on), Guess, loved cucumbers. Never liked carrots much. And, so on. And each of them have a personality.

Now, as far as the "personality" that Pokemon have. That is a bit different. As they have a very "human-like" personality. Which is a bit weird. I prefer the old fashioned Pokemon. When only a select few could understand human talk. I don't like the way some of them are portrayed as "God-Like". To me, that seems to sort of mimic the ancient gods ideas. And that's... weird.

I agree with you for the most part. Pokemon have changed from sort of "animals" to a bit more "human" or "god-like". And, as previously mentioned, that's just weird.

 

[Åzurε]

IMO, they should nearly all be below humans, or just keep any civilized behavior, beyond manners like that of a trained pet, out of contact.
There was one episode of the (i think) first season anime, Island of Giant Pokemon, where TR's and Ash&Co's Pokemon got washed up away from the trainers, and started a subtitled conversation among themselves. Minus the lemonade stand, I think that's as far as gets without being obscenely humanized, excepting of course pokemon who actually could build houses, etc., or converse with humans.
Also, I understand getting the general gist of what they say, like my dog, you can easily tell what mood she's in, or if she's hungry, but pikachu should not be able to tell you if what you're doing is a good idea or bad idea; it'd have to get what the man-cubs were getting up to in the first place.

 

[Espeon Master]

I like the old-style pokemon.
Pokemon should have natures and personalities. After all, every animal does and I'm glad this was added into the concept.
However, I must agree that some aspects have been overdone. By making pokemon seem to be of equal or higher intelligence as humans is just confusing and almost a bit wrong. If pokemon have always been as smart as humans, what gain do they get out of obeying them? Why do they need a trainer to call out commands and are not able to just battle strategically on their own? Why should they fight at all? It kind-of destroys the whole point in my opinion.

 

[Superjub]

I honestly, think when they made a 'God' Pokemon, they messed up big time. Not only will religions most likely complain about their being a God in Pokemon, it kinda screws up the next generation. What, will they have a God of a God? Anyway, I agree completely. Back in the day (I so wanted to say that :)) you had a ice bird, a fire bird, a electric bird, a ancestor Pokemon and a clone. Pretty simple, right? Now, you have a God, creator of time and space, giver of emotions, guardian of darkness, volcano random pokemon, another random nightmare pokemon, a pink, 'dream' (?) Pokemon and other random ones. Sure, you could say the ice, fire and electric birds were random, however their backstory was more developed on with the introduction of Lugia (who is so cute :3), but they were slightly believable (elemental birds :D.) I mean, c'mon, what is the reasoning behind Heatran? It's just some volcano thing...:\ The birds, in a way, were the elemental guardians of Kanto (guiding Blaine to safety etc.) and supposedly they flew around a bit. Meh, I'm slightly biased since I prefer the older generations but meh...:\

 

[emoBill™]

It's all the younger fans.

*shrug*

What will the world think when little Johnny runs around eating live fish because he thinks he's a Pidgey?

 

[BHwolfgang]

IMO, they should nearly all be below humans, or just keep any civilized behavior, beyond manners like that of a trained pet, out of contact.

Actually, most Pokémon weren't meant to become 'pets'. I mean, would a Legendary Pokémon be tamed by a little Pokémon Trainer? I do not think so;but, still we see everyone catching them in smaller Pokéballs and immediately they obey you.

I'm also a fan of older generation. I mean, the story behind Kanto and Jhoto was fine, even to the point where one could call it amazin', but they ruined it with the advanced generation and further.

 

[emoBill™]

I mean, would a Legendary Pokémon be tamed by a little Pokémon Trainer? I do not think so;but, still we see everyone catching them in smaller Pokéballs and immediately they obey you.

*nods head sadly*

True, true. Mai legendaries obey me, no matter what the cost.

*evil laugh*

But the little Lugia Silver was cute when he was with the kid. That was pretty adorable. But how the hell did he get a freakin' Lugia? Honestly?

I mean, the story behind Kanto and Jhoto was fine, even to the point where one could call it amazin', but they ruined it with the advanced generation and further.

Again. True, true. These seasons are just empty plotline.

 

[Rabbit]

Hm, I haven't really noticed the creeping change, probably because I don't watch the anime. But now that you point it out, it seems obvious.

Pokemon as people doesn't really make sense. For one thing, there's the lack of regular animals in the Pokemon world. What do people do for meat? The anime shows Ash and friends dining on meatballs, as I recall. Somewhere, there must be a Tauros/Miltank farm that butchers Pokemon. Magikarp and Feebas probably make good fish fingers. There's a lack of chickens, but even a Spearow might be edible in a pinch. There's no way around the issue, unless you ignore it. If there are no animals in the Pokeverse, Pokemon have to fulfil that role, one way or another.

For another, Pokemon as animals is more interesting. If your Pokemon is as smart as you are, can understand every word you say, and is your loyal partner for life, what's the trainer's role? To give commands? As pointed out above, it's silly. If Pokemon are sentient beings, they can command themselves. It leaves out all the little things that come with animal ownership - reinforcing positive behaviour, giving treats, keeping it from biting strangers, and teaching it not to piddle on the carpet.

Arceus is the silliest Pokemon ever invented. Don't tell me that this deer/hammer/thing created the universe. And can be caught in a tiny ball.

 

[Legobricks]

This is why I regard Red and Blue Green as the only true Pokemon games.
I'm glad other people have noticed the shift in the franchise.

The anime has brought about the misconception that all Pokemon can actually understand people. In the games no one ever actually talks to one.


Lapras are overhunted.
Farfetch'd are endangered — with breeders trying to keep the species afloat. If you take notice that a lot of coastal areas are built-up, that's probably why.
Spearow eat... worms, apparently not worm Pokemon.
Miltank are evidently milked.
Gorbyss uses its long snout to suck the bodily fluids from their preys.
Et caetera.

I still think Pokemon are the normal animals of their world and that the early appearances of real-worldly animals were an oversight.

 

[BHwolfgang]

In one Pokémon movie, Pikachu and Zapdoes communicated through shocking each other. Maybe there is other ways to communicate in this strange world..?

 

[coolcatkim22]

People have been trying to humanize Pokemon ever since adults started calling it 'Pokemans' instead of 'Pokemon'.

 

[Sloofish]

Well, they were wild animals at first. Only the domesticated Pokemon were tame.

I help my parents run a cat breeding farm for all kinds of different cats. Especially smaller breeds some people like to call "midget cats" and hybrids like flame points.

All of them almost have human personalities, they love, care, even sometimes seem to think or come up with things which according to science isn't possible for more than a very few species of animals such as dolphins, great apes and humans. They have favourite foods, likes, dislikes. They have personality quirks like one of our Siamese cats for example, she'll only 'talk' to people who are her height or below. Unless a human being flattens themselves to the floor or sets her on a higher up platform to look her in the eye, she'll ignore your very existence. But otherwise, she'll chirp to you and touch noses with you; all around loving individual if you're eye level with her only.

I think sometimes that my cats are a bit too much like Pokemon. Their personalities aren't bound to "Eat mice, sleep, scratch cat tree" but sometimes into more complex relationships where they're reluctant to let go of their childhood like a cat-form of mid-life crisis or where they'll even sit longingly by the door and wait for you to return if you're out walking... then act like they never missed you when you get back as in the case with my brother and his cat whom ironically is named after a Pokémon, Garchomp.

I think the Pokémon are a bit above animal intelligence seen as I can sometimes relate real animals to be as smart as a Pokémon would be if it were real. However, I did note the change in Pokémon from first series to later.. Rather than wild Pokémon being feral and tame Pokémon being more like little people, ALL Pokémon are turning friendly and happy.

Personally, I liked them better as animals because nothing is un-lovable about animals enough to make them preferred as humans. Animals can be and most often are good enough for the role. So why not?
​

 

[The Scientist]

...For one thing, there's the lack of regular animals in the Pokemon world. What do people do for meat? The anime shows Ash and friends dining on meatballs, as I recall. Somewhere, there must be a Tauros/Miltank farm that butchers Pokemon. Magikarp and Feebas probably make good fish fingers. There's a lack of chickens, but even a Spearow might be edible in a pinch. There's no way around the issue, unless you ignore it. If there are no animals in the Pokeverse, Pokemon have to fulfil that role, one way or another...

Interesting point. Assuming that those fish in the S.S. Anne episode were an oversight... Where does Ash get his cheeseburgers from? It's a bit daunting to think that your sirloin may have come from a lv.100 Tauros with Hyper Beam, Fissure, Earthquake, and Rock Slide.

Oh come on. Back in the day, everybody and their mother had this Tauros.

And here's an interesting question... if a handful of Pokemon created the Universe, time and space, and the Earth itself... who made people?

 

[tb33zy123]

i think they are companiones, like a dog, always by your side.

 

[Katnip]

It would be interesting to hear what you guys think about the Mystery Dungeon series. I mean, the pokemon have little towns and alliances. Do you think they humanized them too much, or is it okay just for the games? I, personally, love the background they have for pokemon in Explorers of Time.

 

[EagleVision1999]

It would be interesting to hear what you guys think about the Mystery Dungeon series. I mean, the pokemon have little towns and alliances. Do you think they humanized them too much, or is it okay just for the games? I, personally, love the background they have for pokemon in Explorers of Time.

Yeah, me too! It's kinda cute.
Personally, I don't see why we complain...in my opinion they were always treated at least as if they were above animals (in the anime).
You remember in the episode after that one with the ship, when they landed on this island, they had a whole conversation of them in...ehm...pokish, subtitled.
Very human to talk about the situation.
I'm also thinking about Deliahs Mr. Mime...or Meowth of Team Rocket. He also talks with other Pokemon. And then the times when he had to interact with Pikachu...whole conversations.
When they showed Meowths past, they portrayed the persian with the other Meowths like a gang.
The relation between the female Meowth seemed also very human, which is why I had no doubts back then, ten years ago, that they're more like human (you could see Meowth as outstanding...but oh well...he doesn't seem this clever xD) .
It's not canon in the games, that's true, but I cannot see the big change.