Artificial Life - amazing breakthrough or one step too far?

[Aureol]

You have to be kidding me. Of course morals are relative. And there isn't any true right and wrong.

Well, there goes any argument I could make. I am truly at a loss for words.

 

[Ready4failure]

I say this is awesome. i always look for an advance in the scientific field. something like this has soo many uses, such as figuring out the origins of life (sorry religious ppl, i dont want to start a fight!), curing disease, cell regeneration... the list goes on. sure it has its bad sides, but in all truth, wat technology doesnt?

 

[SIN1488]

To be honest, speaking of playing God, If I was in control of the world, I would make scientists send out different vessels out into space. They would be filled with all sorts of bacteria, and I would send them out in hopes of seeding the planets with life. :badsmile:
Seriously, that's kind of wrong, but what can be bad about making life spring up faster on other planets? They wouldn't do good unless conditions were perfect anyway.

And with this new technology, this would be even easier. One could "make" bacteria that consume certain gases and "spit" out something more suitable for life, for one.

 

[txteclipse]

You all need to watch Gattaca. Very good movie. Way ahead of its time.

As to the topic at hand...way to go, sensationalist journalism. All I see is genetic engineering. Unless I'm totally missing something.

 

[Guillermo]

To start with, I don't understand where you picked up the link to global warming from. :/

Secondly, as I said in my earlier post, an artificial bacteria, as has been created, could be manipulated and developed to a similar use as stem cells or vaccinations, namely curing diseases, providing much-needed organs and easing suffering for those who are in pain due to their medical conditions. These ARE the things these scientists are focussing on, and as such, this discovery is a good thing.

Craig Venter, the leading scientist on the project, has said he hopes to create bacteria that could take in carbon dioxide and excrete biofuels - solving both global warming and the impending fuel crisis in one fell swoop. Theories are also abounding, however, about possible "bio-error" (i.e. what if it goes horribly wrong?) and "bio-terror" (i.e. what if this falls into the wrong hands

To start with, you obviously didn't read the first post, did you?

Secondly, yes, you're right, but the bacteria they're focusing on isn't to cure diseases, if you read the article. They're aiming to do that, but they're not doing that yet.

 

[Guillermo]

You're batshit if you thought this wasn't gonna happen. I, personally, being an atheist and pro-science kinda guy, think that this is amazing for the human race. Now wars can be fought without really losing any lives, You can clone yourself and then put your brain in that clone to live, well, as long as you can keep cloning, and hell, to be blunt, if a rich guy wants a perfect girl, he can just order one to be spliced.

People, the world is about what people want, not what we need. If you've got money, and we've got science, why the hell not?

This world is business, and baby, business is always booming.

While what you say may happen, we're talking years from now. They've managed to create a cell, and we need billions of billions of them constantly reproducing to create one clone. Unless, you know, we do indeed manage to do this quicker than I expect.

 

[Bantroid]

Science never ceases to amaze me. :[

 

[Rich Boy Rob]

To be honest, speaking of playing God, If I was in control of the world, I would make scientists send out different vessels out into space. They would be filled with all sorts of bacteria, and I would send them out in hopes of seeding the planets with life. :badsmile:
Seriously, that's kind of wrong, but what can be bad about making life spring up faster on other planets? They wouldn't do good unless conditions were perfect anyway.

And with this new technology, this would be even easier. One could "make" bacteria that consume certain gases and "spit" out something more suitable for life, for one.

That's a brilliant idea. In fact I was thinking recently that this could be the first step towards (relatively) easy terraforming. Now seeding life onto other planets kind of is playing god, but that can be a good thing. I mean there are theories that we (as in terrestrial life) were seeded here by aliens, so why couldn't we pass down the favour.

Science never ceases to amaze me. :[

Okaaaay... Why does the fact "Science never ceases to amaze you" make sad?

 

[Dawn]

You're batshit if you thought this wasn't gonna happen. I, personally, being an atheist and pro-science kinda guy, think that this is amazing for the human race. Now wars can be fought without really losing any lives, You can clone yourself and then put your brain in that clone to live, well, as long as you can keep cloning, and hell, to be blunt, if a rich guy wants a perfect girl, he can just order one to be spliced.

People, the world is about what people want, not what we need. If you've got money, and we've got science, why the hell not?

This world is business, and baby, business is always booming.

It disturbs me deeply the rapid change in personality you undergo when discussing things relevent to religion.

Sorry to spoil this...

What you speak of will never happen. The technology you're looking at is not even creating cells from scratch. This 'discovery' is basically a very misleading fraud, from what I'm seeing. That means it's 9001 miles away from anything that could lead to what you're imagining.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ot-really-say-experts/articleshow/5966474.cms

Quite frankly, I think you are oblivious to the implications of the loss of the value of human life. If hundreds of people suddenly gain the power to play god with lives, then the human race is screwed. It would either be peace, or infinite war.

There would never be any reason to end a war.

...And we all know humans can't keep peace forever.

So... basically life turns into Unreal Tournament 3

I'm actually somewhat offended by this carefree attitude in an area of science that deserves so much caution. You don't screw with the future of the human race just because you can. Things can go very wrong.

I'd also like to note that there would be intense difficulties cloning a brain if they ever tried to take on that challenge. In fact, science and medical knowledge as I know it says that it's not possible.

 

[Sneeze]

You're batshit if you thought this wasn't gonna happen. I, personally, being an atheist and pro-science kinda guy, think that this is amazing for the human race. Now wars can be fought without really losing any lives, You can clone yourself and then put your brain in that clone to live, well, as long as you can keep cloning, and hell, to be blunt, if a rich guy wants a perfect girl, he can just order one to be spliced.

People, the world is about what people want, not what we need. If you've got money, and we've got science, why the hell not?

This world is business, and baby, business is always booming.

A bacteria is a far cry from growing a "perfect" human in a cryo cylinder, and I doubt we'll go that far because imo that is immoral.

Also, not to go off topic, but isn't the whole point of a war to take lives? Represent your country in combat, fight for what you believe in etc? If an army can just send in the clones everytime their numbers start to dwindle it will be an eternal stalemate. No risk, no reward.

 

[sgspacemonkey]

I think that people watch too many Hollywood movies and that's why they get worked up when new scientific developments happen. I'm personally more interested in the development of robots, but some people will go as far as to blow up computer factories because they think that the future of the world is going to be like Terminator or something. I'm not sure if this new bacteria is going to be dangerous to humanity or not, but so far it's in the very early stages and I doubt we're advanced enough to start blowing it out of all proportions. I'm not worried though, I think it's fascinating and I'll count myself as lucky if I get to live long enough to see some exciting scientific discoveries.

 

[Dawn]

A bacteria is a far cry from growing a "perfect" human in a cryo cylinder, and I doubt we'll go that far because imo that is immoral.

Also, not to go off topic, but isn't the whole point of a war to take lives? Represent your country in combat, fight for what you believe in etc? If an army can just send in the clones everytime their numbers start to dwindle it will be an eternal stalemate. No risk, no reward.

No risk... except... you know, completely ravaging the economy. Setting us up to be viewed as sick, emotionless savages. Just saying. Any normal people that figured out what we did, would think us uncivilized savages...at best.

Not to mention that the resources to do something like that would have to come from SOMEWHERE.

The idea is just incredibly unrealistic.

 

[Zet]

Creators are just destroyers, much like we were created. Everything that humans have made has ended up destroying people's lives.

Though when humans create a perfect being, call me.

More money can always be printed. Always.

And yet the economics depression still lives on to this day.

 

[Dawn]

More money can always be printed. Always.

That's not how it works...

Like we arn't already?

You =/= the entire human race :\

Just asking, who are these normal people, and why are they looking at an entire race of beings?

Resources are embryos and labs? We got plenty of guns. Just convert some factorys for the rest. I think it can be done. Easily. We just need the technology.

I assure you it takes a lot more than your average lab to support the cloning and speed growing of a human embryo.

Normal people, being any sentient species that hasn't devalued life to the point where a dollar is worth more.

 

[SIN1488]

More money can always be printed. Always.

I would be really saddened if you think that's how simple it is. :facepalm:

Now wars can be fought without really losing any lives, You can clone yourself and then put your brain in that clone to live,

Human clones are already possible, but as far as we know, nobody has experimented with growing them because that is illegal in every developed country. Also, don't you think if your brain was in a clone, and you got shot in the head/blown up, this would destroy your brain and make the whole cloning thing pointless?

I think we will have a more useful technology making body parts from scratch. Scientists have already done this with a heart valve, or something like that. It was creepy looking to see something like that pulsing by itself. And that's just the beginning, they will be able to make more complex things. Like did anyone hear about that new form of carbon they discovered? Because of it's shape, it will work as a better chip than silicon can ever be, especially since you can make them smaller than silicon chips. So maybe as they develop nanotechnology more, and develop this new technology, there will be all kinds of amazing breakthroughs, and not just medical ones.

 

[Sneeze]

Just saying. Any normal people that figured out what we did, would think us uncivilized savages...at best.

Not to mention that the resources to do something like that would have to come from SOMEWHERE.

The idea is just incredibly unrealistic.

That true actually, I mean if someone with power found out they might declare war on us or something. D:

 

[Gymnotide]

Since I cbf reading this thread because I've read the same arguments a hundred times on PC already --

I don't really see a point in cloning, nor genetic engineering. It only complicates things, since even with regulations so that the procedures can only be used to remedy genetic disorders, etc., there's always going to be someone who wants to crack the barrier. Then we'll have cosmetic engineering, intellectual engineering, and the likes, which only leads to more social hierarchy than we really need. As if society wasn't already messed up enough!

Watch Gattaca. It's a good movie.

As for cloning, I really see no point whatsoever, since normal birth is a completely viable alternative -- unless you want children who look exactly like you. What cloning does isn't duplicate a person or animal, but rather creates an identical in its likeness. They will still grow up differently, their brains will develop differently, and their personalities / preferences will remain unique. What could you do? Make an army of like-bodied people, vegetize them and use them as pawns in warfare?

We've even made our own chimaeras using rats. Now, I'd much rather not try to alter the world even more by creating our own species when we haven't even discovered or tamed all the ones already on Earth. On top of that, it's unnecessary because we have little to gain from playing with animals like they're Transformer toys, unless you're talking making a cow that lays chicken eggs, but that's gross.

- - - - -

Furthermore, to address the idea of a scientific experiment actually wreaking havoc on the world: that probably won't happen anyway. Experimentation has usually ended in failure. You can't merge two already existing animals together to make some form of demonspawn, and genetic engineering on a single embryo usually destroys it if you're talking massive-scale, terror-from-the-depths sort of thing. What's more likely is some sort of bacterium or virus is modified to be the most lethal in the world, but we've already got a lot of other things that can kill us. Besides, microorganisms are fickle and easy to get rid of anyway.

- - - - -

edit I would also like everyone to consider the fact that physicists are the ones who are more likely to end the world than biologists. Chemists too, to a different degree.

 

[SIN1488]

edit I would also like everyone to consider the fact that physicists are the ones who are more likely to end the world than biologists. Chemists too, to a different degree.

Cool, I was already planning on taking chemistry and physics when I start college, but this just makes it final. :badsmile:

 

[.Gamer]

I support this entirely. The benefits greatly outweigh the risks. I fail to see how anything bad can come of this other than some quasi-House of the Scorpions type scenario, but I still think thats unlikely.

For those of you who haven't read it, its a pretty good story.

Im going to go and read though the rest of the thread right now, probably gonna edit with counter arguments.

As for the whole "playing God" thing, assuming God is real, ask yourself, would he have allowed this opportunity if he didn't like it?

EDIT: (as promised)

All the people who are all *gasp and shudder* artifical life maybe???????? Why? Why would it be bad to be able to create new sentient beings? We could create beings to fight wars, mine resources or perform otherwise dangerous/laborous tasks that we wouldn't normally do. "OH NO GOD SED ITZ BAD" isn't a valid argument, not everyone believes in God or what the bible says, why should everyone have to follow the guidelines of one religion?

We could create life for organ transplants or blood transfusions. Admittedly, it does sound gruesome and creepy, but people wouldn't have to wait months at a time for vital organ replacements or surgeries. Whats more important, saving countless lives, or making sure you follow a book?

 

[Dawn]

EDIT: (as promised)

All the people who are all *gasp and shudder* artifical life maybe???????? Why? Why would it be bad to be able to create new sentient beings? We could create beings to fight wars, mine resources or perform otherwise dangerous/laborous tasks that we wouldn't normally do. "OH NO GOD SED ITZ BAD" isn't a valid argument, not everyone believes in God or what the bible says, why should everyone have to follow the guidelines of one religion?

Morals say it's bad.
But only the bolded part.

I think it's rather prejudice to pair morals with religion. I think you're insinuating that atheists are moral-less monsters, which insults me because I have friends that are atheist and perfectly nice people that recognize the value of morals. Atheists don't follow any particular set of rules or lifestyle, so why even attempt to stereotype them? =/

Just because you're against religion, or so it would seem apparent to me, doesn't give you a solid base to be against morals, mmkay?

Now, why's it bad? What you are speaking of is creating slave clones, and we as human beings have absolutely no right to do that. Not only would that be, I repeat, slavery, but it would violate the value of human life to the point your average dollar would be worth more. That's your life you're making worth the dirt on someone's shoes. Not only that, but my life too! Now I ask you, who has the right to do something like that? You? A scientist? How about, nobody short of absolutely everyone including the clones themselves.

It's a sick and horrible thing to do, morally.

Also, once again the guy is misleading in what he says. This scientist that did this has not developed a new technology or created synthetic life so much as he has taken already existing life, and reconstructed it. A far simpler task than creating life from scratch, which we cannot do.

There's a big difference from having to destroy something of equal scale to 'create' something equivelent, than creating something from scratch.

As for cloning, I really see no point whatsoever, since normal birth is a completely viable alternative -- unless you want children who look exactly like you. What cloning does isn't duplicate a person or animal, but rather creates an identical in its likeness. They will still grow up differently, their brains will develop differently, and their personalities / preferences will remain unique. What could you do? Make an army of like-bodied people, vegetize them and use them as pawns in warfare?

THANK YOU! It seems to be a popular misconception that the 'cloning' we can do is that which can be seen in video games or movies and the likes. It really isn't. Clones can wind up really different than their original.

edit I would also like everyone to consider the fact that physicists are the ones who are more likely to end the world than biologists. Chemists too, to a different degree.

I'm curious, how? o.O