Ash Ketchum: Master or Moron?

[Lana.]

Ash lost the little respect i had for him as a Pokemon trainer when he left his Charizard in Johto, i mean WTH, Charizard is the strongest Pokemon he has, and even when he got it back twice, both times he let it go back, the same goes for his Squirtle (although he left him for the right reasons) they where by far some of the stongest Pokemon Ash has EVER had and will ever have and he just walked away from them, if he was any good a Pokemon trainer he would keep the good Pokemon he gets and release the week ones not the other way around.

*Flabbergasted* He walked away from them?! How on earth can you say that!? Ash left his Charizard in Johto so it could become strong! It was easily defeated by the weakest Charizard in that one place (I can't remember the name of it for the life of me), and Squirtle needed to help Officer Jenny's team of Squirtle become better fire-fighters. ( Or something like that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it was so long ago...)

He was trying to make them better Pokemon, not walking away from them! Yes, they were strong, but they had room for improvement. A good Pokemon Trainer recognizes that. Ash did. That's a big reason I respect Ash so much, he's not so vain he realizes his Pokemon have major room for major improvement. He knows he's not the best he can be. It may seem that way sometime, but Gary or Paul or another rival always brings him back down to Earth.

(End rant)

he is not a moron he is good because he has never lost but i could beat all his pokeon with a level 10 lucario or starly or pichu

You sure you're watching the same series we are? I can recall at least six instances where Ash loses. (Ritchie, Gary twice, that one kid in the Johto League, and Paul at least twice). And that's off the top of my head.

 

[Donnie]

You sure you're watching the same series we are? I can recall at least six instances where Ash loses. (Ritchie, Gary twice, that one kid in the Johto League, and Paul at least twice). And that's off the top of my head.

Roark once
But everyone loses
Just because somone loses doesnt make them a moron

 

[Lana.]

Roark once
But everyone loses
Just because somone loses doesnt make them a moron

*Nods* I'm starting to think of more. And I agree, Ash loses more than most of us do in the game. But maybe that's because he's battling real people, not a stupid computer that a five year-old could beat.

 

[ShadowDeeps]

In his defence that's mainly done for the benefit of the new viewers of the show.

I don't think he's an idiot at all. It's all too easy to say that he's an idiot for releasing some of his best Pokemon especially considering the fact that the show is not real and many of us haven't been in the same situations as him. The fact of the matter is that all of the Pokemon he's had to let go (with the possible exception of Primeape) have been the morally right thing to do. I think it shows a certain strength of character that he's able to do the right thing even if it's at an overall cost to him.

He's got some great battle techniques and great improvisational skills. He often comes up with great moves to defeat the opponent midway through battle. I mean you don't win the Orange Island trophy, The Battle Frontier and come top 8 in Hoean and Johto by being a moron. Considering the fact that he's still technically a kid I think that's a terrific achievement.

I find myself in wholehearted agreeance. It's better to have a flawed than flawless character (however one defines that). It leaves breathing space and development, as flaws are more relatable and familiar than that which is never attained. It also adds humanity to the character, and I see nothing askew nor convoluted with adding humanity to an anime character. Heck, Brock is no better - you'd think that he'd know not to handle woman the way he does, no matter if everything he interminately pulls is just for humor. Look at Jessie, James, and Meowth. They're not children, and yet that they're so flawed, human, yet evil and not (even if it's all for drollness, however redundant and overused they've become over the course of the series), is what makes them so popular amongst fans.

Ash was brash, reckless, impetuous, full of vanity, and pompous, but so are many in life. For a kid who is "stupid" and a "moron", he sure did well at the Indigo League, the Orange Islands Championships, the Johto League, the Hoenn League, and the Battle Frontier while still handling his Pokémon with deep care and whilst just being a generally compassionate and admirable person (IMO). We see him fall into a "mentor" role and mature tremendously as the series draws forth. Max may seem more astute at first glance, but he's proven himself to be just as immature, whiney, and even uppity. Again, flaws are okay. Ash certainly established a deeply held connection with Pikachu as well, so given that he started out as naively as he did, to say he's a moron is to say that many other characters are morons too.

 

[Roronoa Zolo]

*Nods* I'm starting to think of more. And I agree, Ash loses more than most of us do in the game. But maybe that's because he's battling real people, not a stupid computer that a five year-old could beat.

exactly. People think they're so good because they beat some computer. Ash go against trainers with REAL pokemon. people who thinks they can beat Ash with a lvl 10 pokemon need a check because, Pikachu can just Thunderbolt your DS, and its Gameover.

 

[Michii]

I'm really discusted at the narrow-mindedness of some of the posters here. Before you get all "WOAHMGUIZTEHSUXXORS" on me, I see that you have your opinions, but some of your reasons for his moronic state are not valid in the least bit. At least by the cartoon-anime standards.

For one, Pokemon is for children, something that every single one of us can agree on. The anime is based for kids several years younger than us. Sure, we still enjoy Pokemon as we are able to, but we're outside the general age that the animators aim for. I can remember being seven, watching the show, and thinking about how cool it was and how I loved it so. Not "Ash is dumb and he should give away Totodile." or anything. All I saw was how Ash was determined and strong-willed, and how he never gave up on anybody.

With that, I'll start with the debate on the strength of his own pokemon and the opportunities he'd have to catch others if he could. The anime and the games are not the same thing. Levels don't matter anymore, and, in general, neither do evolution stages. We've been proven obteen times how pokemon have overcome their evolutions. Pikachu and Raichu, Poliwhirl and Poliwrath, and many other instances have been shown in the anime over time. Ash isn't stupid or idiotic for keeping his Pokemon at their base stages, he just has his Pokemons' desires in mind. Also, the smaller, so called "weaker" Pokemon that he has sets up countless opportunities for the writers to make an underdog kind of episode. And, as we have also seen, whether or not the Pokemon is evolved or not doesn't effect anything. Cyndaquil had defense, Bulbasaur was just awesome, and of course, Pikachu was (debatable now) hella strong. On the legendary subject, once again, anime isn't the same as the game. In the game, the world doesn't get screwed over when you catch Mewtwo or any other legendary. In the anime, it has the potential to. The legendaries had and have many important roles to keep the Earth in balance. The second movie was a strong supporter of this, as was the eigth. Ash knew this, so he didn't catch the legendaries. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't let a whole ecosystem die just to catch my Mew for my own selfish needs, nor would I catch a Lugia and screw up the ocean currents. And the other strong pokemon in the wild in general? Well, there are a lot of reasons for that. Maybe Ash kept in mind that Pokemon have a life in the wild, unlike in the games where they're just data. Maybe he just wanted to put their happiness before his strength. Still argue with me? Well, maybe the writers believed that a lot of Pokemon at one time would make the time that they were showcased thrown off. What about Gary? His were all strong, right? Well, maybe Ash wanted to bond with his Pokemon.

Now, on a flip side, I agree that sometimes Ash's general character is shown as moronic, but once again, the show is aimed towards children, so his character is going to be one that more so represents a child's thinking abilities. I'm not saying that children are stupid, but think about it. Ash sometimes makes stupid decisions that children would make too, and occasionally it's come to bite him in the butt, so to speak. This is almost like a moral for kids to not do crazy things like Ash. Through him, children are taught what the right and wrong things are to do. Ash puts others before himself-children are taught not to be conceided. Ash overeats and has a stomach ache (just go with me on this)-children are shown that overeating is bad. Ash to the children is almost like a hero, as he was to me when I was a young kid watching the show, so his reactions and actions effect them.

I realize that Ash isn't exactly a brain surgen, but please look at my point of view on this. Not all people are Ash fans, I see, but we can try to be open minded to see various aspects of this. Yes, I am an Ash fan, so I may have been slightly (or maybe more, I'll leave it up to you to decide) biased on this subect. Even so, try looking on it from this angle. :]


Not putting post in size one only to not put strain on eyes for entire post. I'll compensate for that here. :3

 

[Symbol]

I say 50% of both.

Moron because he let some of his greatest pokemon go and he couldnt handle some.

Example: THAT HUGE PIDGEOT and Charizard he couldn't handle.




In battles his strategies are amazing and he is a great trainer since he puts his pokemon before himself.

 

[Roronoa Zolo]

I'm really discusted at the narrow-mindedness of some of the posters here. Before you get all "WOAHMGUIZTEHSUXXORS" on me, I see that you have your opinions, but some of your reasons for his moronic state are not valid in the least bit. At least by the cartoon-anime standards.

For one, Pokemon is for children, something that every single one of us can agree on. The anime is based for kids several years younger than us. Sure, we still enjoy Pokemon as we are able to, but we're outside the general age that the animators aim for. I can remember being seven, watching the show, and thinking about how cool it was and how I loved it so. Not "Ash is dumb and he should give away Totodile." or anything. All I saw was how Ash was determined and strong-willed, and how he never gave up on anybody.

With that, I'll start with the debate on the strength of his own pokemon and the opportunities he'd have to catch others if he could. The anime and the games are not the same thing. Levels don't matter anymore, and, in general, neither do evolution stages. We've been proven obteen times how pokemon have overcome their evolutions. Pikachu and Raichu, Poliwhirl and Poliwrath, and many other instances have been shown in the anime over time. Ash isn't stupid or idiotic for keeping his Pokemon at their base stages, he just has his Pokemons' desires in mind. Also, the smaller, so called "weaker" Pokemon that he has sets up countless opportunities for the writers to make an underdog kind of episode. And, as we have also seen, whether or not the Pokemon is evolved or not doesn't effect anything. Cyndaquil had defense, Bulbasaur was just awesome, and of course, Pikachu was (debatable now) hella strong. On the legendary subject, once again, anime isn't the same as the game. In the game, the world doesn't get screwed over when you catch Mewtwo or any other legendary. In the anime, it has the potential to. The legendaries had and have many important roles to keep the Earth in balance. The second movie was a strong supporter of this, as was the eigth. Ash knew this, so he didn't catch the legendaries. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't let a whole ecosystem die just to catch my Mew for my own selfish needs, nor would I catch a Lugia and screw up the ocean currents. And the other strong pokemon in the wild in general? Well, there are a lot of reasons for that. Maybe Ash kept in mind that Pokemon have a life in the wild, unlike in the games where they're just data. Maybe he just wanted to put their happiness before his strength. Still argue with me? Well, maybe the writers believed that a lot of Pokemon at one time would make the time that they were showcased thrown off. What about Gary? His were all strong, right? Well, maybe Ash wanted to bond with his Pokemon.

Now, on a flip side, I agree that sometimes Ash's general character is shown as moronic, but once again, the show is aimed towards children, so his character is going to be one that more so represents a child's thinking abilities. I'm not saying that children are stupid, but think about it. Ash sometimes makes stupid decisions that children would make too, and occasionally it's come to bite him in the butt, so to speak. This is almost like a moral for kids to not do crazy things like Ash. Through him, children are taught what the right and wrong things are to do. Ash puts others before himself-children are taught not to be conceided. Ash overeats and has a stomach ache (just go with me on this)-children are shown that overeating is bad. Ash to the children is almost like a hero, as he was to me when I was a young kid watching the show, so his reactions and actions effect them.

I realize that Ash isn't exactly a brain surgen, but please look at my point of view on this. Not all people are Ash fans, I see, but we can try to be open minded to see various aspects of this. Yes, I am an Ash fan, so I may have been slightly (or maybe more, I'll leave it up to you to decide) biased on this subect. Even so, try looking on it from this angle. :]


Not putting post in size one only to not put strain on eyes for entire post. I'll compensate for that here. :3

You ma'am, just won my respect.

Just to added to it. For people calling Ash Moron for not catching the injured ZAPDOS.
He did this because, he CARES about pokemon.

 

[Lana.]

You ma'am, just won my respect.

Just to added to it. For people calling Ash Moron for not catching the injured ZAPDOS.
He did this because, he CARES about pokemon.

I agree ^^ You stated all of my opinions (only in a much better way xD)

 

[>Feelings<]

This is just my opinion, not taking into consideration to whom the show is aimed at:

Why Ash is not moron:

1. He learns from his mistakes.
2. If he releases his pokemon, he does it sometimes because it is the morally right thing to do.
3. If he doesn't catch a pokemon, he does it sometimes becauese he thinks they deserve to enjoy
wildlife.
4. He doesn't evolve his pokemon just because he wants them to. He lets them decide.
5. He's good at heart, and normally does what's right.
6. Sometimes, he comes up with awesome strategies, specially in gym battles, and pulls of nicely.

Why Ash is a moron:

1. He lets his stupidity get over his abilities and thinking.
2. Sometimes he is absurdly stubborn and headstrong.
3. Even after learning, sometimes he loses to comparatively weak trainers just for stupidity.
4. He releases his pokemon MOSTLY because he is stupid.

Hmm, lets see:

He released Butterfree, Haunter, Primeape, Pidgeot, Lapras, Beedrill, Larvitar, and left Squirtle, Charizard. Out of them, Butterfree, Lapras and Larvitar was the right thing to do; Pidgeot, Squirtle was partly right; Haunter, Primeape, Beedrill, Charizard was just plain stupid.

He should at least maintain contact and friendship with the pokemon he released/left elsewhere. It's like he forgot them. Pidgeot has already served its purpose in Viridian forest and Ash should get it back. In fact, Pidgeot didn't wanna leave Ash even for that while, and ash PROMISED he would come back for it. Haunter has served its purpose of making Sabrina happy and should get back. Beedrill was given to Casey just because she liked yellow and balck striped pokemon - it belongs to Ash. And if he's a good enough trainer, he should train Charizard and Primeape by himself. If other people train it for you home come HE is the TRAINER? Primeape and Charizard didn't wanna get away from Ash either. Charizard had enough training and no longer needs to stay at the Charicific Valley, and Primeape was never trained enough.

I, myself, used to like Ash near the first few seasons, even though he was less mature then. But now I hate him. He has lost all his good sides now, including his emotions...

 

[*MitSuKi*]

Well, I can't really say that he's a master because...*scratch, scratch* But he's not a moron either he's just sorta...reckless(duh, like from that Angels Of the sea Movie, featuring latios and latias, he practically jumped into that revolving thingy that was prisoning latios,probably he knows the consequences, too). But, It's cool!*sigh*

 

[SamuraiMaster]

I'm really discusted at the narrow-mindedness of some of the posters here. Before you get all "WOAHMGUIZTEHSUXXORS" on me, I see that you have your opinions, but some of your reasons for his moronic state are not valid in the least bit. At least by the cartoon-anime standards.

For one, Pokemon is for children, something that every single one of us can agree on. The anime is based for kids several years younger than us. Sure, we still enjoy Pokemon as we are able to, but we're outside the general age that the animators aim for. I can remember being seven, watching the show, and thinking about how cool it was and how I loved it so. Not "Ash is dumb and he should give away Totodile." or anything. All I saw was how Ash was determined and strong-willed, and how he never gave up on anybody.

With that, I'll start with the debate on the strength of his own pokemon and the opportunities he'd have to catch others if he could. The anime and the games are not the same thing. Levels don't matter anymore, and, in general, neither do evolution stages. We've been proven obteen times how pokemon have overcome their evolutions. Pikachu and Raichu, Poliwhirl and Poliwrath, and many other instances have been shown in the anime over time. Ash isn't stupid or idiotic for keeping his Pokemon at their base stages, he just has his Pokemons' desires in mind. Also, the smaller, so called "weaker" Pokemon that he has sets up countless opportunities for the writers to make an underdog kind of episode. And, as we have also seen, whether or not the Pokemon is evolved or not doesn't effect anything. Cyndaquil had defense, Bulbasaur was just awesome, and of course, Pikachu was (debatable now) hella strong. On the legendary subject, once again, anime isn't the same as the game. In the game, the world doesn't get screwed over when you catch Mewtwo or any other legendary. In the anime, it has the potential to. The legendaries had and have many important roles to keep the Earth in balance. The second movie was a strong supporter of this, as was the eigth. Ash knew this, so he didn't catch the legendaries. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't let a whole ecosystem die just to catch my Mew for my own selfish needs, nor would I catch a Lugia and screw up the ocean currents. And the other strong pokemon in the wild in general? Well, there are a lot of reasons for that. Maybe Ash kept in mind that Pokemon have a life in the wild, unlike in the games where they're just data. Maybe he just wanted to put their happiness before his strength. Still argue with me? Well, maybe the writers believed that a lot of Pokemon at one time would make the time that they were showcased thrown off. What about Gary? His were all strong, right? Well, maybe Ash wanted to bond with his Pokemon.

Now, on a flip side, I agree that sometimes Ash's general character is shown as moronic, but once again, the show is aimed towards children, so his character is going to be one that more so represents a child's thinking abilities. I'm not saying that children are stupid, but think about it. Ash sometimes makes stupid decisions that children would make too, and occasionally it's come to bite him in the butt, so to speak. This is almost like a moral for kids to not do crazy things like Ash. Through him, children are taught what the right and wrong things are to do. Ash puts others before himself-children are taught not to be conceided. Ash overeats and has a stomach ache (just go with me on this)-children are shown that overeating is bad. Ash to the children is almost like a hero, as he was to me when I was a young kid watching the show, so his reactions and actions effect them.

I realize that Ash isn't exactly a brain surgen, but please look at my point of view on this. Not all people are Ash fans, I see, but we can try to be open minded to see various aspects of this. Yes, I am an Ash fan, so I may have been slightly (or maybe more, I'll leave it up to you to decide) biased on this subect. Even so, try looking on it from this angle. :]


Not putting post in size one only to not put strain on eyes for entire post. I'll compensate for that here. :3

I caan understand your reasoning. The show is a kids show, and I even laugh at it when I watch it, but still. Ash can be a bit better....is that understandable?

 

[Pilgrim Soul]

Speerows do you hear me? I'm gonna capture and defeat you all. Pikachu get in the Pokeball its the only way. Come and get me.

PICKAHU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 *huge most powerful attack off all time"

Well we beat 'em.

What's that... / .... there is not data.

Ash sees the most important Pokemon of all time. Brock makes a speech that makes me cry every time I see it. The incredible world of Pokemon. Yep he's a total moron.

 

[Jayster23]

Speerows do you hear me? I'm gonna capture and defeat you all. Pikachu get in the Pokeball its the only way. Come and get me.

PICKAHU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 *huge most powerful attack off all time"

Well we beat 'em.

What's that... / .... there is not data.

Ash sees the most important Pokemon of all time. Brock makes a speech that makes me cry every time I see it. The incredible world of Pokemon. Yep he's a total moron.

He makes such a deal about a mouse that uses electric attacks and is super effictive against flying types and he tells pikachu to stand back and battle the Spearows by himself.

He is a total MORON!

 

[Charaxes]

Yeah, that's gravedigging. Besides, I think we talked plenty on this. Locking.