Atheist Alliance

[NurseBarbra]

Slave laws were really only there because the Isrealites, the people to whom God gave the law, wanted them (slaves). Similarily, the Isrealites got a king only because they begged God for one, even if he said they don't need one and shouldn't get one. It eventually leads to their downfall, with bad kings of Israel and Judah leading to the kingdoms being razed and captured by the Assyrians and Babylonians, I think.

What ever happened to threating eachother as you wish to be treated.. Wait... Did all the Isrealites wish to be treated as slaves?
That's just further proof that religion can be bent to a person's individual desires.
(I like this thread.I normally don't get this much intelligent conversation in a month , let alone a day.)

And I think we strayed off topic a SLIGHT bit... So... NEW TOPIC!

If you could create on creature, based on evolution, what would it look like, where would it live, and what would it's value be to the world?

 

[Gymnotide]

What ever happened to threating eachother as you wish to be treated.. Wait... Did all the Isrealites wish to be treated as slaves?
That's just further proof that religion can be bent to a person's individual desires.
(I like this thread.I normally don't get this much intelligent conversation in a month , let alone a day.)

And I think we strayed off topic a SLIGHT bit... So... NEW TOPIC!

If you could create on creature, based on evolution, what would it look like, where would it live, and what would it's value be to the world?

Honestly, I wouldn't change a thing. With the immense diversity we have now, every species on Earth as of now is an evolutionary titan. We have komodo dragons that intentionally infect their mouths to gangrene to make them deadlier predators to sea slugs that can turn themselves photosynthetic by stealing chloroplasts from plants. Axolotls stay infant forever because it grants them regeneration and underwater breathing. Some creatures can break their own bones and use them as weapons while others can speak telepathically using pheromones.

I don't think I can do any better than nature.

 

[Timbjerr]

I'm just here to point out that nitpicking the Bible to disprove Christianity is pure fallacy. The gospels themselves were scribed several generations after Jesus had died by four evangelists from different corners of the known world at the time. Several generations of verbal tradition will make awkward inconsistencies. The important thing is to get the general theme of a passage, not the details.

In addition, every book in the Bible was written, edited, and compiled by imperfect men and translated and re-translated more times than anyone can tell. It's hardly worthy of being labelled "the absolute word of God" anymore...

...but that doesn't disprove anything. It's all human error. This just means that Christians and other theists in general have to find their own way to God rather than put too much faith in their books.

 

[Spinor]

I will start by saying that I was raised Roman Catholic, but very loosely. And I independently decided on the thinking of an Agnostic. Also loosely, so the proper definition would be that I simply do not pay attention to what is not in the material world.

I believe all religions are flawed. People were killed over the beliefs of others throughout history. The source of all this was ignorance. Scary how we still see so much ignorance today, isn't it? I can just smell the World War III within my lifetime.

Socrates said: "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance."

I'm just barely beginning studies in philosophy, and yet I feel like a lot of things are and will become clear to me. Faith is not Knowledge. And if Socrates's words are words to live by, then Faith is not good.

As I said, people killed over their believes- over their faiths- in the past because people were ignorant. So the cause of the spread of one's faith was ignorance. Ignorance being evil, the concept of faith itself should be evil.

And even today, Faith still has elements of that evil as a result of ignorance, the ignorance towards the truth because one is preoccupied with emotions in the immaterial/supernatural. We do not know anything about the immaterial. So there is no good in faith, and faith is based on the evil of mankind.

Ignorance could also mean being blind to the concept of merely seeking the truth. 'Extremist' Christians do not seek knowing the truth, they merely believe blindly. To know means to justify and prove that belief. But of course it's not always a Christian's fault that he is Christian, for the ignorance of the parents is forever imprinted into the wet concrete of a child.

And maybe... that's the greatest evil of all: To forever imprint your ignorance on youth.


I also have to say something about extreme Atheists. These people claim to 'know' there is no God. But that is of course philosophically wrong, because you can't prove there is no God just like you can't prove there is one. By being Agnostic, you refuse to know that God does or does not exist. You might believe, given you can distinguish between belief and knowledge, one or the other. But I also refuse to pass judgment on what I believe.

I believe the bible was written by ordinary men. We don't know if there is a God. So we might not know that the bible is the 'Word of God'. However, it is more reasonable to believe it simply isn't. By claiming the bible is the Word of God, we must assume that God exists. If we claim the bible is not the Word of God, we do not necessarily claim that there is no God, but simply that the book people place so much faith in is just a collection of stories meant to provide moral guidelines, and nothing more.

I also believe people should live a life with two objectives: The avoidance of pain for oneself and others, and the seeking of truth. That is all. I do not believe I need a set of moral guidelines. I can form my own morals from what I can deduce from the truth.

 

[Gymnotide]

Can we ban talking about loopholes in the Bible and other religious texts? They aren't conducive to positive discussion and only perpetuate unresolvable quarrels on the grounds that "things can be interpreted differently". After all, this is atheism club, not disprove religion club. There's a slight difference.

Atheism isn't the rejection of religion; it's the rejection that there are deities, hence a + theos from Classical Greek.
Are there any atheistic Buddhists or Hindus here? :)

 

[HarrisonH]

I also have to say something about extreme Atheists. These people claim to 'know' there is no God. But that is of course philosophically wrong, because you can't prove there is no God just like you can't prove there is one. By being Agnostic, you refuse to know that God does or does not exist. You might believe, given you can distinguish between belief and knowledge, one or the other.

This is a rather common misconception. Agnosticism is not the middle ground between atheism and theism. Agnostic and gnostic have only to do with knowledge of anything, not exclusively the belief in gods. Agnosticism is not knowing for certain, gnosticism is knowing for certain.

Examples:
Agnostic Theist - "I don't think we can know if there's a god or not, but I choose to believe in one"
Agnostic Atheist - "I don't think we can know if there's a god or not, but I don't think there is."
Gnostic Theist - "I know for certain that there is a God."
Gnostic Atheist - "I know for certain that there is no god."

That's just the simplest way to put it. If you want to see the differences more in-depth, see this infographic..


Now, for a question a bit more meaningful:
What do you think of student atheist activists such as these three?

 

[FrostPheonix]

I guess it is good that they are upholding the law, but why are they making such a wind about a simple prayer? I mean, its kinda against the law, but its abt a minute. Whats so bad about that?

 

[NurseBarbra]

I guess it is good that they are upholding the law, but why are they making such a wind about a simple prayer? I mean, its kinda against the law, but its abt a minute. Whats so bad about that?

Unfortunatally, People just can't learn to shut up for all of 5 minutes. Like seriousally, Why can't they just listen to the view point, weigh it objectivally, and then make a rational decision. Just because they don't like a prayer banner, doesn't mean they should go on a warpath. What ever happened to just ignoring the matter for the greater good, It's not like the poster dramatically changes their life so much that they can't live anymore...

(Yes, It's amazing, The one time that I actually DEFEND religion... It burns to think about it let alone do it.....)

 

[Gymnotide]

Now, for a question a bit more meaningful:
What do you think of student atheist activists such as these three?

Radicalism is the bane of rationality.

 

[Steven]

What do you think of student atheist activists such as these three?

Hurray for fighting against hypocrisy in the law!

Freedom of Religion also gives you the freedom from Religion. Schools doing that shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Sonicspeed500]

An atheist thread? Should I be excited or scared?
I am so sick of all the Atheists I've known that completely dumbfound the world around them with stuff that really doesn't make any sense. It's as if people want to rule out something they know nothing about, simply out of spite. They take things a bit too literally and stretch the meaning a bit too far. There is no effort to obtain it, no true research given into it's study. (Jurassic Park anybody?)

Atheists seem to be only driven by PROOF of things (and if you aren't, maybe you should change how you talk about it to other people O.o). Why believe a God is real if you have no proof? You have to agree with that. In reality, it may seem to make sense, but we humans have such narrow concepts and visions of time and space that we don't even truly know the half of it. Just as the world was once thought of as flat, the big bang theory now is seen as false by the scientific community that started it. The news media is constantly bringing up new results that certain foods like Wine and Apples are good for you or bad for you.

If you want to actually PROVE something wrong, do some full research on it, don't just pick other peoples junk up. Before I finish however, I will say that I am a Christian, and I am Horrified at the world today. I'm not outlandishly attacking you Atheists (this seemed like the right place for my rant), but other churches seriously scare the daylights out of me. Despite what they preach, it's a whole new world in their real life. What they live and what they teach are entirely different. When other people see this, I don't blame them for feeling lied to.

If anyone even dares to attack me (lol), please at least read my entire post before assaulting me. lol I have no problem with a debate, but I didn't come here to fight. Atheists are just perceived as a hate group when I'm attacked so blatantly. If you don't believe in God, I won't attempt to force you to love Jesus. Just know that not all Christians are your enemy. Most Christians would love to spit on you, but they don't even follow their own word in that case (which, honestly, makes me sick). The Bible says I should love my enemies unconditionally. I'm not your friend, (maybe yet) And im not perfect, but I will honor that I believe you are from the same creation as me. So yeah... It's pretty bad that I can't even go to a church without feeling a bit disgusted with how gloated some people are, or how hypocritical some others are. Some people are just sue-happy "I love you cause youre a fellow christian, but I dont want to touch or hug you if you payed me a hundred bucks". :/


Also on a different note...
Not trying to stir up too much ruckus...
Atheism is an absent belief in a deity or religion... soooo you are against it...




AROOOOLNUMBATWO

No "anti" clubs.
Let's keep everything positive here. No clubs that are against anything.

....jus sayin'

 

[Gymnotide]

An atheist thread? Should I be excited or scared?
I am so sick of all the Atheists I've known that completely dumbfound the world around them with stuff that really doesn't make any sense. It's as if people want to rule out something they know nothing about, simply out of spite. They take things a bit too literally and stretch the meaning a bit too far. There is no effort to obtain it, no true research given into it's study. (Jurassic Park anybody?)

Atheists seem to be only driven by PROOF of things (and if you aren't, maybe you should change how you talk about it to other people O.o). Why believe a God is real if you have no proof? You have to agree with that. In reality, it may seem to make sense, but we humans have such narrow concepts and visions of time and space that we don't even truly know the half of it. Just as the world was once thought of as flat, the big bang theory now is seen as false by the scientific community that started it. The news media is constantly bringing up new results that certain foods like Wine and Apples are good for you or bad for you.

If you want to actually PROVE something wrong, do some full research on it, don't just pick other peoples junk up. Before I finish however, I will say that I am a Christian, and I am Horrified at the world today. I'm not outlandishly attacking you Atheists (this seemed like the right place for my rant), but other churches seriously scare the daylights out of me. Despite what they preach, it's a whole new world in their real life. What they live and what they teach are entirely different. When other people see this, I don't blame them for feeling lied to.

If anyone even dares to attack me (lol), please at least read my entire post before assaulting me. lol I have no problem with a debate, but I didn't come here to fight. Atheists are just perceived as a hate group when I'm attacked so blatantly. If you don't believe in God, I won't attempt to force you to love Jesus. Just know that not all Christians are your enemy. Most Christians would love to spit on you, but they don't even follow their own word in that case (which, honestly, makes me sick). The Bible says I should love my enemies unconditionally. I'm not your friend, (maybe yet) And im not perfect, but I will honor that I believe you are from the same creation as me. So yeah... It's pretty bad that I can't even go to a church without feeling a bit disgusted with how gloated some people are, or how hypocritical some others are. Some people are just sue-happy "I love you cause youre a fellow christian, but I dont want to touch or hug you if you payed me a hundred bucks". :/


Also on a different note...
Not trying to stir up too much ruckus...
Atheism is an absent belief in a deity or religion... soooo you are against it...




AROOOOLNUMBATWO

No "anti" clubs.
Let's keep everything positive here. No clubs that are against anything.

....jus sayin'

I'll respond to your post properly another time.

You're wrong though. Atheism is definitely not the rejection of religion. It's only the god part. Not all religions have gods.

Also, common misconception... No one except Columbus' expedition thought the world was flat. The Greeks and Egyptians proved that the world was round ages before that era. The Muslims, Andalusians, and alchemists proved this even more later on. In fact, even the Norse have evidence in their literature and artifacts that they knew the shape of the Earth too. The world being round was widely accepted even as Columbus tried to prove otherwise.

Finally, it's not the fact that the scientific community believes the Big Bang is untrue, but rather that they have reformulated their theory from an actual "bang" to a slower, Big "Collapse." It still functions the same way as the Big Bang Theory, only the perception of it is different.

Not trying to be rude, but please ground your examples :/

 

[NurseBarbra]

Also on a different note...
Not trying to stir up too much ruckus...
Atheism is an absent belief in a deity or religion... soooo you are against it...




AROOOOLNUMBATWO

No "anti" clubs.
Let's keep everything positive here. No clubs that are against anything.

....jus sayin'

No.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism,which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

No "Anti" Clubs means that we can't make a "Jewish beliefs only club. No Christians allowed" club and such. But the AA is a free to join club, no matter what you believe in, As we aren't snobby one faced deaf idiots who don't listen to a matter, weight the choices and decide with good judgement. We haven't said anywhere that we were ANTI- anything. Kthxzbai~

EDIT:


It's SO ADORABLE YET SO SAD.... ; _____ ;

 

[Sonicspeed500]

aa

 

[Spinor]

Now... to change the subject back to what I was talking about...
What do you guys think about Time and Space though? Do you guys suspect that maybe in a different universe there lies a God of some kind? a being with the abilities to warp time? Such a thing could be seen as God-like to our human existance.

I'm personally into string theory. Which means that outside our universe are parallel universes with ALL possibilities and ALL outcomes with ALL possible paths and ALL possible beginnings and endings. [This means there's a universe somewhere out there where a cupcake can suddenly pop into your hand at random]

Of course, it's just a theory. But I believe it's a good concept.

 

[NurseBarbra]

[This means there's a universe somewhere out there where a cupcake can suddenly pop into your hand at random]

Does that also mean that there is a universe where you can GROW food such as pizza and Ice-cream? Bacon tree anyone?

 

[Gymnotide]

Well thanks for making me feel bad, you know, because I said exactly that.
If you did post properly you would've seen that:

Next time, take your time to post please...
I put the religion as an "or" because I have met Atheists that consider it that way.
I never said Atheism was specifically the rejection of religion (which you are right about, it's not always.)

I never provided any examples you silly :p
This was merely meant to be a sophisticated talk, not a college essay.
There is a difference between speaking from wisdom and from fact.
And i did ask to take your time to respond to me because I wanted us all to think, not to post quickly.

And about the world flat and all that,
My misconceptions are noted, as I did not know that. Hence, the reason I posted! A-ha!

I didn't take my time to post because I didn't have the time then and I honestly don't really feel like you grasp the concept anyway. Please don't be as impetuous to say that I chose to do this unconcerned. I tried to point out flaws in your argument so that you could go back and revise them. However, you haven't done so (by picking new examples, etc.), so I'll assume you don't have an alternate argument or don't care.

Firstly, I was addressing the fact that you did put or in your sentence. I was not debating that your entire viewpoint was wrong, however the or clause adds unnecessary (and incorrect details). Your rebuttal only omits your transgression and propagandizes out of context. It's like saying "let's end global warming and kill all the animals in the world," having a response saying "no, that's bad for the world's ecosystem," and responding "nuh uh, I said let's end global warming and this is why that's good: ..." You can't just pretend you never said it.

An example of a religious atheist would be a new-age Buddhist or Hindu.

Secondly, if this is a discourse, you must use examples to back your claims. Since your claims were brought in using metaphor of relation, if your related topics aren't true, then your claim can't be valid either. It's not speaking from "wisdom" if your claims are false. It's like saying "this food tastes like chicken. I also have never tasted chicken."

Um, and no... You weren't using the ideas as misconceptions for your argument. You yourself were misconceived and used these misconceived ideas to attempt to fortify your argument. You presented them as true, not misconceived.

Of course, none of this addresses the matter at hand. I'm just suggesting that you yourself put a bit more thought into your statements and state only what you know for the rest of the debate.

 

[FrostPheonix]

I didn't take my time to post because I didn't have the time then and I honestly don't really feel like you grasp the concept anyway. Please don't be as impetuous to say that I chose to do this unconcerned. I tried to point out flaws in your argument so that you could go back and revise them. However, you haven't done so (by picking new examples, etc.), so I'll assume you don't have an alternate argument or don't care.

Firstly, I was addressing the fact that you did put or in your sentence. I was not debating that your entire viewpoint was wrong, however the or clause adds unnecessary (and incorrect details). Your rebuttal only omits your transgression and propagandizes out of context. It's like saying "let's end global warming and kill all the animals in the world," having a response saying "no, that's bad for the world's ecosystem," and responding "nuh uh, I said let's end global warming and this is why that's good: ..." You can't just pretend you never said it.

An example of a religious atheist would be a new-age Buddhist or Hindu.

Secondly, if this is a discourse, you must use examples to back your claims. Since your claims were brought in using metaphor of relation, if your related topics aren't true, then your claim can't be valid either. It's not speaking from "wisdom" if your claims are false. It's like saying "this food tastes like chicken. I also have never tasted chicken."

Um, and no... You weren't using the ideas as misconceptions for your argument. You yourself were misconceived and used these misconceived ideas to attempt to fortify your argument. You presented them as true, not misconceived.

Of course, none of this addresses the matter at hand. I'm just suggesting that you yourself put a bit more thought into your statements and state only what you know for the rest of the debate.

a·the·ist
someone who denies the existence of god.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Source
Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary


Yep, seems an atheist officially is someone who denies God. But, I'm sure he meant the popular belief that atheists deny religion. And how can you be Hindu-Atheist?

also, seems its on the brink of a flame war.
Time for a change of subject!

I'm curious, do all of you believe in evolution, and/or the big bang theory/the big bang collapse? Or whatever its called? Or do you have some other theory?


Oh yes:

Does that also mean that there is a universe where you can GROW food such as pizza and Ice-cream? Bacon tree anyone?

Bacon tree ftw!!!

 

[NurseBarbra]

a·the·ist
someone who denies the existence of god.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Source
Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary


Yep, seems an atheist officially is someone who denies God. But, I'm sure he meant the popular belief that atheists deny religion. And how can you be Hindu-Atheist?

Once again:

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism,which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

I'm curious, do all of you believe in evolution, and/or the big bang theory/the big bang collapse? Or whatever its called? Or do you have some other theory?

And yes I believe in evolution, aswell as the possible Big Rip/Freeze/Crunch.
I also like the multiverse theory, and I personally think "What if our universe was created by two other universes that collided off each other?"


Man I love evolution.... Nature FTW

 

[HarrisonH]

a·the·ist
someone who denies the existence of god.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Source
Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary


Yep, seems an atheist officially is someone who denies God.

Saw this, just came to say: Your sources say the following:
Princeton WorldNet: someone who does not believe in the existence of a god
Dictionary.com: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Answers.com (multiple): One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods, non-believer, someone who denies the existence of a god
Mirriam-Webster: one who believes that there is no deity
The Free Dictionary: One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods

So apparently, the definition that you provided "someone who denies the existence of god" is of your own creation, as each of your sources also included that it means "disbelieves" or "does not believe". The word "deny" is extremely biased when used by itself, as it implies that a god does exist, a claim for which there is no evidence.

Additionally, an atheist doesn't just not believe in God (Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, each is the same), but we also do not believe in any other gods. Don't try to make your god more special by making it sound as if yours is the only one we don't believe in.

In fact, look at it this way: The only difference between my religious beliefs and yours is that I happen to believe in one less god that you do. (Paraphrased quote from someone, not exactly sure who)