Bannette

[j3llii3]

put will-o-wisp its a good attack =]

 

[Samson]

yeah if you want to replace knock off, go with will-o-wisp.

omg, i forgot to mention that after it sets up trick room on the first turn, it OHKOs yanmega, OHKOs ninjask, OHKOs Gallade, OHKOs Gardevoir, 2HKOs infernape, 2HKOs jolteon, OHKOs Medicham, 2HKOs Heracross, and 2-3HKOs Dusknoir.

that not enough for you?

 

[Towlie]

Funny how you just make up what it OHKOs and 2HKOs. Let's run some actual damage calculations, shall we?


(All defending pokemon are Max HP/Max Def)

Shadow Claw vs Gengar - [Damage: 70.99% - 83.64%]

So he can 2HKO Gengar.

Thunderbolt vs Skarmory - [Damage: 46.11% - 54.19%]

Hmm, interesting. 3HKO, counting the leftovers recovery and if you don't get max damage twice in a row, which is unlikely.

Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - [Damage: 62.69% - 73.86%]

Wow, are you serious? It can only 2HKO a Gyarados?

Thunderbolt vs Aerodactyl - [Damage: 40.66% - 47.80%]

3HKO on something with defenses that bad.

Thunderbolt vs Slowbro - [Damage: 36.04% - 42.39%]

That's a 3-4HKO when you include leftovers recovery.

Shadow Claw vs Slowbro - [Damage: 40.61% - 47.72%]

A little more, still a 3HKO. Include Slack Off and good luck killing this little guy.


That's all the damage calculations I'm going to do for now, but I have yet to find something that Banette OHKOs.

 

[Anti]

MAybe that's why it's NU/UU. Really, banette is usable, it's just VERY hard to use it. ANyone who thingks banette can survive a powered up EQ from gyarados is crazy. DD + EQ = OHKOed banette. I'm not certain on that, but pretty sure. For a NU pokemon, banette isn't all too bad.

 

[Towlie]

Oh, of course. His base attack is pretty good. Easily usable in NU. I'd say he'd get ranked up in UU though, even though his movepool is really bad.

Not familiar with UU in D/P though.

 

[PlayaFritz]

Thats why you give him the focus sash to sfrew them over...Also, ShadowClaw does have a high crit Ratio...


Edit:Also, when you ran the damage calculations, half the pokemon there would never even touch their defensive stats when ev'ing so Banette would OHKO half of them

 

[Samson]

Funny how you just make up what it OHKOs and 2HKOs. Let's run some actual damage calculations, shall we?


(All defending pokemon are Max HP/Max Def)

Shadow Claw vs Gengar - [Damage: 70.99% - 83.64%]

So he can 2HKO Gengar.

Thunderbolt vs Skarmory - [Damage: 46.11% - 54.19%]

Hmm, interesting. 3HKO, counting the leftovers recovery and if you don't get max damage twice in a row, which is unlikely.

Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - [Damage: 62.69% - 73.86%]

Wow, are you serious? It can only 2HKO a Gyarados?

Thunderbolt vs Aerodactyl - [Damage: 40.66% - 47.80%]

3HKO on something with defenses that bad.

Thunderbolt vs Slowbro - [Damage: 36.04% - 42.39%]

That's a 3-4HKO when you include leftovers recovery.

Shadow Claw vs Slowbro - [Damage: 40.61% - 47.72%]

A little more, still a 3HKO. Include Slack Off and good luck killing this little guy.


That's all the damage calculations I'm going to do for now, but I have yet to find something that Banette OHKOs.

dude, did you even take Quiet Nature, 252 SP ATK and 252 ATK evs into consideration? those calculations are inaccurate.

one, Gengar never has max hp or def. with 60 base def and HP, it's an immediate OHKO unless it has focus sash, which it usually does.

quiet nature to skarm with max hp thunderbolt... no way, it's a 2hko unless someone has the gall to give it sp defense evs.

it would 2HKO a bulky gyara which is the standard... that's still good damage considering its 100 base sp def.

it OHKOs standard Aerodactly. get your facts straight. none, if any, aeros will actually have ANY HP evs or def evs.

i forgot slowbro had 110 base def and is usually held at Bold nature, max hp evs. it would be a 3HKO, but with High CH rate, a Slowbro and Slowking would eventually get KOd with Shadow Claw even if they plan on stalling with Slack Off + leftovers recovery.

so, now that you've made a fool of yourself by insisting that all these pokes have max hp and def evs in competitive battle, why haven't you retracted any of my other damages?

 

[Towlie]

That's how damage calculations are ran. I used max Atk and Sp. Atk Evs on Banette.

Those calculations are not innaccurate. Every pokemon has 510 EVs to use. It's impossible to run a max HP and Def Gengar? No, it isn't. You need to convince me that a Shadow Claw on a Gengar is GUARANTEED to OHKO it. If it can't take down a Max HP/Def Gengar, it's not taking out much else.

And my facts aren't straight when you're saying Skarmory and Slowbro are common leads? Haha. Funny stuff.

But since Banette is so great, why don't you head down to Shoddybattle and use a lead Banette vs a decent player. Then show us the battle log. I'd love to see this Banette taking down all these OUs.

And btw, I ran a calculation on a "Standard Aerodactyl" Let's say it ran a 4 Hp/252 atk/252 Spd.

Damage: 65.23% - 76.49%

Oh yes. That really is a OHKO on a standard Aerodactyl.

 

[Punishment]

Funny how you just make up what it OHKOs and 2HKOs. Let's run some actual damage calculations, shall we?


(All defending pokemon are Max HP/Max Def)

Shadow Claw vs Gengar - [Damage: 70.99% - 83.64%]

So he can 2HKO Gengar.

Thunderbolt vs Skarmory - [Damage: 46.11% - 54.19%]

Hmm, interesting. 3HKO, counting the leftovers recovery and if you don't get max damage twice in a row, which is unlikely.

Thunderbolt vs Gyarados - [Damage: 62.69% - 73.86%]

Wow, are you serious? It can only 2HKO a Gyarados?

Thunderbolt vs Aerodactyl - [Damage: 40.66% - 47.80%]

3HKO on something with defenses that bad.

Thunderbolt vs Slowbro - [Damage: 36.04% - 42.39%]

That's a 3-4HKO when you include leftovers recovery.

Shadow Claw vs Slowbro - [Damage: 40.61% - 47.72%]

A little more, still a 3HKO. Include Slack Off and good luck killing this little guy.


That's all the damage calculations I'm going to do for now, but I have yet to find something that Banette OHKOs.

Your argument is flawed one way though. Why would someone run Max HP and Defense on Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Gengar. Skarmory is a duh and so is Slowbro but the listed three makes me lol if they are sticking those EVs in Defense and HP.

Any Pokemon in the right situation can pull something off. If the guy wants to use Bannete let him.

 

[Samson]

omg, did you seriously just suggest playing on Shoddybattle? lmao shoddybattle isn't even fully developed for one, and two, it sucks. i don't use bannette because i simply don't like it, but it could do considerable damage to any standard team.

and slowbro IS a popular lead. have you ever battled outside of shoddy? otherwise, you'd know.

it seems like you've completely lost point of what you were originally saying... first it can't be offensive, although it has manageable offenses, and then it should just be annoyer, and then flareon is a better offensive poke than it (lol), and now just because it can't OHKO everything, it's crap?

i'll say it again... get real.

 

[sims796]

I don't get how damage calulations are done. Aren't they, now what's the word, ranging? No damage is as set in stone as what Towlie said. Is it?

The only thing that turns me off Banette is speed. Since it has Trick Room, it's better than Flareon to me.

 

[Anti]

Better than Flareon isn't saying saying much. There's a reason n one uses banette, but only pokemon like luvdisc are unusable.

 

[sims796]

Ah, I was just sayin....

But Flareon might be useable, but it'll be a stretch. Banette is, as you stated, UU, but far from unusable.

 

[Anti]

Many UU pokemon are actually very good, like cradily. Banette isn't one of 'em, but, let's forget I said that. It's a matter of the movepool and all that stuff. Most, if not all, UUs are usable, it's the NU we should be targeting, like magikarp (exageration).

 

[Towlie]

Lol. Doesn't matter if Shoddy isn't fully developed. It has everything wifi has, except for Focus Energy I believe. All the damage calculations are pretty right on.

I'm just guessing you can't win with a Banette, tbh.

And no, I can't battle outside Shoddy because my wifi is messed up. Does that mean I don't know the metagame? No.

I haven't lost point of what I was saying at all. If you reread my first post, you'd understand. I actually said there were way better options than Banette, implying that it sucks. And that point still stands.

It's slow. It will be OHKOed by any pokemon. Focus Sash? Oh wow, you get 1 free hit. Since Banette OHKOs barely anything, it will just be an easy 6-5 lead for your opponent.

And since you think Banette does so much damage to a standard team, use it on Shoddy. Everyone uses standard teams there. Let's list some standards that just laugh in Banette's face:

Electivire
Blissey
Cressilia
Weavile
Garchomp
Tyrannitar
Salamence
Hippowdon
Bronzong
Jirachi
Breloom
Weezing

Just to name a few.

 

[Anti]

For the millionth time, that's why he's UU, there are better options. We don't need to keep reiterating that.

 

[sims796]

Oh God, it doesn't OHKO, what a nightmare!!!

 

[Anti]

Yeah, well put. Really, this thread is now more an argument about banette. It isn't amazing or anything, plain and simple.

 

[sims796]

And to add to what you said, it isn't useless, as well. Bad enough not to earn it an honorable mention for UU's, but good enough to use if you really like him.

 

[Anti]

Yeah, so anything else about banette? Anybody want another moveset or something?