Black and Blue.

[Outlier]

Understanding the context of something doesn't mean someone will accept anything that comes from it. Like, we know that sometimes men will catcall and make gross gestures and say threatening things to women as they walk down the street or sit on the subway. They may laugh and make jokes at someone's expense while making them uncomfortable. That's the context, but knowing it doesn't make it any better.

That's more extreme than, say, a comedian on stage or course. There's a spectrum of contexts that range from wanted and expected (like going to see a comedy performance by a comedian who you already know is known for racy jokes) to unwanted and unexpected (like having strangers accost you, making jokes based on your race, gender, etc.) and a lot of grey area in the middle.

Most of what you're describing sounds like sexual harassment to me. Trying to be "funny" doesn't give you the right to harass or threaten anybody. That goes without saying. There are laws in place to prevent those kind of things from happening.

I thought this thread was about jokes.

 

[Esper]

Most of what you're describing sounds like sexual harassment to me. Trying to be "funny" doesn't give you the right to harass or threaten anybody. That goes without saying. There are laws in place to prevent those kind of things from happening.

I thought this thread was about jokes.

It is, but there's always that person who wants to defend their offensiveness by saying it's a joke so there's a kind of blurry line between what is and isn't a joke. You know, "Don't get upset. I'm just joking."

 

[Outlier]

It is, but there's always that person who wants to defend their offensiveness by saying it's a joke so there's a kind of blurry line between what is and isn't a joke. You know, "Don't get upset. I'm just joking."

Yeah I'm sure it happens. If someone is being passive aggressive and hiding behind sarcasm or "jokes" just to be intentionally hateful or to try and hurt someone then that's not true humor. That's just someone being a douche lol.

 

[twocows]

To add on to what I said earlier, I think the correct response to someone getting offended (by anything, not just comedy) should be "so what?" Why are we suddenly so obsessed with whether someone gets offended by something? Why does it matter? Unless you're also offended, there's no reason for you to care about it in the slightest. People can and should deal with such trifles on their own without society having to make taboos to make them more comfortable. Now if they go further than just telling jokes, well, we already have laws for such things.

 

[Kanzler]

To add on to what I said earlier, I think the correct response to someone getting offended (by anything, not just comedy) should be "so what?" Why are we suddenly so obsessed with whether someone gets offended by something? Why does it matter? Unless you're also offended, there's no reason for you to care about it in the slightest. People can and should deal with such trifles on their own without society having to make taboos to make them more comfortable. Now if they go further than just telling jokes, well, we already have laws for such things.

Of course it matters, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist, right? Some of us are curious as to why certain people get offended at certain things. I mean, there's an explanation to everything and it's part of human curiosity to want to learn more. And just because you think their offence is trivial doesn't mean /they/ do nor does it mean however many people do either - so the fact that other people find it interesting makes it something valid to care about at all. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you in a narrow sense in that it doesn't affect your material world, but understanding other people's irrationalities is part of understanding the bigger picture.

 

[LoudSilence]

To add on to what I said earlier, I think the correct response to someone getting offended (by anything, not just comedy) should be "so what?" Why are we suddenly so obsessed with whether someone gets offended by something? Why does it matter? Unless you're also offended, there's no reason for you to care about it in the slightest. People can and should deal with such trifles on their own without society having to make taboos to make them more comfortable. Now if they go further than just telling jokes, well, we already have laws for such things.

Society is a unit, and we like cohesion. A "so what?" attitude causes needless friction and is not conducive to good relations with other people.

Everyone's got their values: we think certain taboos are silly, others don't. It's best to explore why rather than shrugging at them and not caring, you know?

 

[twocows]

Society is a unit, and we like cohesion. A "so what?" attitude causes needless friction and is not conducive to good relations with other people.

You know what causes needless friction? Getting bent out of shape because someone said something you didn't like. I'm all for urging people not to act like jerks, but if a person is not actively trying to be malicious and merely says something you don't like in the course of speaking their mind, that is not just cause to get outwardly upset and intimidate them into submission. And that's the key issue is that this whole political correctness thing is a war on personal expression, meant to intimidate people into staying quiet lest someone get upset.

Everyone's got their values: we think certain taboos are silly, others don't. It's best to explore why rather than shrugging at them and not caring, you know?

I never said we shouldn't "explore taboos," I said people should either take things less seriously or deal with it in their own way if they get offended. The problem is people trying to force their views upon everyone else and create an atmosphere of "walking on needles" where everyone is too afraid to speak their mind. This is bad, this is de facto censorship. Personal feelings are not a legitimate reason to stigmatize free expression.

 

[LoudSilence]

You know what causes needless friction? Getting bent out of shape because someone said something you didn't like. I'm all for urging people not to act like jerks, but if a person is not actively trying to be malicious and merely says something you don't like in the course of speaking their mind, that is not just cause to get outwardly upset and intimidate them into submission. And that's the key issue is that this whole political correctness thing is a war on personal expression, meant to intimidate people into staying quiet lest someone get upset.

I agree, if you're not going out of your way to offend someone then people should learn to chill out.

That said, in the context of this topic (black/blue jokes), these are known to be taboo and many people do take this personally. I'm not saying to stay bottled up no matter what, but decorum should be observed when you know that a certain subject matter is "offensive" to some/many. Consider your audience first and foremost.

Personal feelings are not a legitimate reason to stigmatize free expression.

I agree to a point. Forced censorship is unhealthy, but people should be willing to censor themselves on certain issues out of consideration for others (on certain issues, like I said).

Wanting to be able to say anything at any time just for the sake of is selfish.

 

[Kanzler]

Yunno, right now we've been talking about jokes and focusing on the joke and the joke teller - that is, whether a person's behaviour is seen as acceptable or not. But we don't have to limit it - it's black /humour/ as we're well aware and humour can be seen as a way of looking at the world in addition to the explicit action we call a joke.

If somebody put a banana peel on the floor where a friend of his would fall, he would have just played a practical joke - which may be in good or poor taste. But what if nobody put the banana peel there as a joke? If practical humour humours you, then you'll probably notice that was funny even though no joke was "told" or played. ;)

Similarly, taking a serious subject and laughing at it is part of black humour too. Take the following exchange for example:

Theatre because of my cutting habit...

A: Okay this is scaring me Bob.
B: omg i legit lol'd at that soooo hard. black humour thread anyone?
C: Cutting as in skipping class LOL

It's clear that Messrs B and C had a bit of a laugh over it (and knowing A he would have as well). It was a misunderstanding over what could have been very serious and taboo - or at least hush-hush - topic, yet we found it funny. Question is, why?

Are you one to laugh at things that may offend or are you more of the type that finds it disturbing? If you're somewhere in between, what's okay and what's not okay? What's a no-go zone? If you are somebody who enjoys it, how big of a role does it play in your life? I say that in some of the social circles on PC, black and blue humour is part of the daily routine. Why do you think we laugh at things that are supposed to be off-putting?

And what do you think of people who disagree with you in this respect - depending on who you are, are people who don't like black and blue humour prudish or are the people who enjoy it sick-minded?

The questions in the OP still apply, except that I'd like to take this discussion away from the "joke-teller" and towards the "humour-receiver".

Also, I only have Messr B's express permission to make this public. If Messrs A and C don't want this shared, then I will take it down. But only if they find it first :P