[Discussion] Can you really call it your "game"

[Poeman]

When using poccil's kit with little to no customization how can you call something your own game? It's more like a mod.

I suggest we change this subforum to pokemon essentials modding community.

It speaks for what the community is more, and will help people understand what we do.

:shocked: Also is this smiley the Caterpillar from Mario? wut

 

[assasinn]

Well, not everybody is using poccil's essentials right? The kit was made to be a base for pokemon fangames, hence the term "essentials kit", and never meant to be a game in the first place. Also, the kit itself was based off the work of Flameguru, as you can see from Pic_1.

 

[thepsynergist]

Its no different than modern game companies using other peoples development kits. I say keep it where it is.

 

[cruciFICTION]

Yes, yes, I can call it my game, thank you very much.

I mean, you have to start somewhere, and using Essentials is better than starting from scratch. It means that when it comes time to write code for the parts that I actually want for my game, all I have to do is remove a bit of Essentials and replace it with the thing that really does make it my own.

 

[DarkDoom3000]

Essentials is a cool idea. So people won't have to slave away making all their own battle systems and whatnot- and actually concetrate on content.

Sadly, the vast majority of games DO feel like mods,

I remember back in the old days, where RMXP was just new, and game development section felt like the wild west, with lots of games making their own battle engine.
These days the game dev section feels just like the rom hacking section. New region, new storyline, new pokemon. blah.
It's no mystrey why we see so much people thinking they are roms. lol


It would be grand if more pokemon games... did stuff unique. Had features not seen in essentials or other games.

that said, I only see the problem in the beginners lounge. I think the showcase fillters out the men from the boys.

EDIT: I don't use rmxp-essentials btw.

 

[Rossay]

Well considering all the games I have made, I have coded from scratch in Game Maker & not used any of these "kits", then yes, I feel I have the right to call my projects "games".

The point I'm making is that not everyone here uses "kits". There isn't anything wrong with using a "kit" as a starting point for a project -- but make sure you make some worthwhile modifications to it so that it doesnt just feel like a bad copy of an existing "kit".

 

[Arma]

There isn't anything wrong with using a "kit" as a starting point for a project -- but make sure you make some worthwhile modifications to it so that it doesnt just feel like a bad copy of an existing "kit".

What I'd like to know is what qualifies as a "worthwile modification". Explaining this claerly to beginning developpers will result in more original ideas for games. The downsize is that the majority of good ideas have to be scripted, which an awful lot of people wouldn't like to learn simply because it takes to much effort.

I can't see how it's wrong to use a starterkit, why should I go and program everything only to end up with the same battle system etc. ?

 

[Cilerba]

Almost all of the members here that are working on a game, are doing it just for fun. They're not looking to learn a coding language and make a game from scratch.

But I somewhat agree with you with the fact that if there are very little modifications it isn't really a game. However, if a game has a good amount of modifications, then yes, it is reasonable for the game creator to call it his/her game.

 

[Maruno]

A game is much more than the system behind it. It's a set of maps and events, a story and an immersive experience (ideally). Those things don't come with Essentials.

If you're going to say that it's not really "your" game because some kit gave you a starting point, you might as well say that nothing you program is your own because someone else invented the programming language. I falsely dichotomise, of course, but the point is that the battle system doesn't define a game.

The imperfect nature of Essentials means that anyone who doesn't make their own tweaks will end up with an imperfect product, but if they're happy with that, I see no reason to degrade that product. It's what they wanted to make. I don't like being elitist about this kind of thing (which is partially why I'm improving Essentials as best I can).

There's nothing wrong with knocking something up in Essentials and calling it "your game". Essentials isn't a game in the first place, it's a starting point, so you can't be said to be making a mod of it rather than your own game. It may be a cookie cutter game, but it's "your game" nonetheless.

:shocked: Also is this smiley the Caterpillar from Mario? wut

It's a yellow Diglett. That red part is its nose.

 

[Poeman]

you might as well say that nothing you program is your own because someone else invented the programming language.

Yes but when using a programming language the work isn't done for you.
If it is, I'm doing it wrong.

Also to everyone saying they don't use essentials, this is why I said "When using poccil's kit" I understand not the whole community does.

Also

but make sure you make some worthwhile modifications to it

Wouldn't that then be a mod?

 

[cruciFICTION]

Well, if you understand that not everyone in the community uses Essentials, then why did you even bring the matter up? I mean, what does asking your question even accomplish?

 

[taimao]

Believe you me when I make my game. It will be MY GAME, and not some mod. Any way like was said by someone else essentials isn't a game you mod. It's just a tool giving you a starting point to make your game with.

 

[Ephemeral Euphoria]

Unless you're doing everything from scratch, no.

 

[taimao]

Unless you're doing everything from scratch, no.

Who is this a reply to though because it probably isn't replying to the OP? Just currious?

 

[Ephemeral Euphoria]

Who is this a reply to though because it probably isn't replying to the OP? Just currious?

I was saying that if you're borrowing off another game to make your own like hacking then it isn't really your own game.

Then again I was thinking of the Pokemon hacks when posting that though.

 

[taimao]

I was saying that if you're borrowing off another game to make your own like hacking then it isn't really your own game.

Then again I was thinking of the Pokemon hacks when posting that though.

Yeah, as my game will not be hack. And as has been said essentials isn't game. I would compare essentials more to a modification of RMXP.

 

[Poeman]

So the way I take it you guys think we're better than the hacking community because the majority of people use a point and click interface with preloaded scripts?

Please don't insult the hacking community if you are making your game with RMXP it really isn't too different.

 

[Rai Rai]

So the way I take it you guys think we're better than the hacking community because the majority of people use a point and click interface with preloaded scripts?

Please don't insult the hacking community if you are making your game with RMXP it really isn't too different.

My thoughts of what you're saying from that is everyone who uses RPG Maker XP instead of coding their own interfaces to make their games are noobs then? As that is what you're basically pushing across to everyone. If you haven't noticed about half of us here are making a game for fun, not all of us are here to portray a career making our own editing program from scratch, when it comes to pokemon, most of us grab the best resource there is and make a game.

 

[The 100 Mega Shock]

Collectively, a game is the sum of its parts.

If you tried to make an entire game out of just the stock Essentials Content you probably wouldn't get that far without running out of steam and leaving with a mediocre product. Even if you don't particularly touch the code aspect of the engine (and surely anyone would have to make some adjustments at the code at some point to suit their game), to make a good game with original graphics, design and sound is more than enough to consider your own creation even if the backbone is based upon the work of others.

This isn't even mentioning the writing and dialogue. Having any writing at all is required to make a game even if everything else was composed of stock assets, and strong writing can often make or break a game entirely. It's just one more thing that involves work going forward to making a game truly your own.

 

[taimao]

So the way I take it you guys think we're better than the hacking community because the majority of people use a point and click interface with preloaded scripts?

Please don't insult the hacking community if you are making your game with RMXP it really isn't too different.

There is no insult to the hacking community at least not from me. But essentials is not a game its a tool (kinda like the user interface you speak of, i guess). There is no already finished product/ROM that we are editting. I'm not saying what we do is better or harder. Its just different.