Changing the Type Chart?

[Lain Vesper]

Personally I dislike the Type Chart for being unbalanced. Rock, Ice, and Grass are too vulnerable. Poison and Dark are too weak overall. Steel and Ghost (mostly Steel) are too defensive, ect...

What do you guys think about the Type Chart in pokemon? Would you change it? If so, how and why?

However, there's a problem because the Type Chart is based on natural entity which the type represents and not against pokemon of that type. For example, get a metal stick and wack a Magikarp with it should realistically be no different (damage-wise) than smacking a Rattata with a metal stick, yet it would do "not very effective" in the video game - which is what we're talking about here.

And then there's the problem of changing the type chart based on balance of the game, or basing it on reality. The both are very difficult to deal with because obviously, a game with this many types, based on varying degrees of fiction and reality, it would be impossible to balance fully. Also, when basing it on reality, we come along roadblocks... Steel has many resistances, most/all of which make sense. However, Normal and Fighting would be awful types because, what's a normal person going to do against a fire, or an electric current, or a bird? You try to punch an open flame or get a metal stick and shove it into a pool of water?

So yeah. What do you guys think about it, ect...?

 

[psyanic]

I'd keep it the way it is. If you think about it, Normal-types may not have much advantage over anything, but not much will damage them as effective in the first place. Normal-types also carry the niche of being very versatile and learning a wide variety of moves. Even Zigzagoon can learn Thunderbolt. Sure that's changing with the changing meta game, but still. The exact same doesn't go for Fighting-types though.

Fighting-types have the advantage with a lot of sheer power. This wasn't as evident in past generations, but nowadays, Fighting-types pretty much dominate the meta game. This and with Steel-types, they already make up a fair portion. They also have very high Attack stats.

A person against a Flying-type? Seeing that many people are well... kinda bigger than birds I don't think we'd be pulverized or something. But the Fighting-type did note that with their weakness. As for your point about Fire and all, I believe the type's effectiveness is compared to other types as well. You know you can't light a match underwater. And fire would melt ice faster than it would melt people (gruesome image now that I think about it...). Fire would burn down forests, but not at the same rate as it would, let's say a dirt road.

 

[Sydian]

The type chart is definitely in more than just the Advance Gen, that's for sure. Moving this to PGC.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Ice lacking resistances other than itself does make sense in the real world. While real-world ice is solid (and somewhat crippling in most cases, as seen in frostbite), it can easily be broken or shattered, and even melted.

 

[Arma]

Most of the resistances/weaknesses make sense to me. However, there are some things bugging me.

Why is the bug type super-effective against the Dark type, while not very effective against ghosts?

Shouldn't electricity and water also be weaknesses for the steel type?

Why are fighting attacks weak against poison typed Pokemon?

All in all, I think the type chart is more-or-less balanced. Some things may not make any sense, but it hsa never bothered me that much.

 

[Lain Vesper]

Oh, I was also actually going to ask about what you guys thought about switching the Ghost and Dark types (in terms of pokemon and attacks) for the simple reason that Dark is special when it very clearly should be physical and Ghost involves the opposite. Not sure if that constitutes a new thread, but it is G3 specific (other than G2).

I know a lot of them do make sense, but I find that the chart inhibits many types in the higher ups. Like Grass - offensively: +3, -7 (awful) defensively: +3, -5 (again, awful). Of course, Rock, Ground, and Water are some of the most common types around, however, 7 types is almost half of all of them and Flamethrower, Wing Attack/Fly, and Ice Beam aren't exactly hard moves to come by. (Unfortunately, Grass' weaknesses are pretty much not up for discussion as they make perfect sense.) While Steel - offensively: +2, -4 (awful as well), defensively: +11, - 3 (holy...). Steel's defense, is also entirely logical with the exception of possibly Electric, Water, and (a stretch) Psychic.

I find that the Normal type may not be great, but Normal is very reliable offensively, and they get a great STAB boost for the most common attack type.

We see a good number of Steel types end up in OU and this is pretty good reason.

Oh and, Fighting would do half to Poison because it involves actual "poison" which is why Rock, Ground, Ghost, Poison, and Steel all resist/immune to it. Some have said that it also could refer to "pollutants" which is why Grass is weak to it (but strangely not Water). Trying to punch/kick some acid or poisonous plant, or poisonous liquid isn't going to help much.

Some have speculated that Psychic could be connected to the ability to "heal" mentally and physically, hence the 2* effectiveness. It seems a bit of a stretch, but hey, Poison needed a weakness so I'm game.

But why Ground doubles Poison when Rock or Steel doesn't? Can't tell ya.

 

[Sheep]

I'd definitely make ghost types weak to fire. Gastly specifically is a ball of gas, so I can see something like that working out. I'd probably make ghost types immune to flying, too; always confused me how Scratch wouldn't do anything to them but something like Peck worked.

If we were to go a bit more advanced, I'd make water moves heal grass Pokemon... unless it were something like Hydro Pump. No plant wants to have that to the face, lol.

Other than that, I'm probably good with the types. :3

 

[Keyaki]

I'd definitely make ghost types weak to fire. Gastly specifically is a ball of gas, so I can see something like that working out.

Not all ghost Pokemon are gaseous so it plus its not like the gas Gastly is out of is flammable, so it really wouldn't make much sense.

I'd make water moves heal grass Pokemon

That'd completely un-balance and break the game.



The type chart's fine, just keep it the way it is.

 

[Elite Overlord LeSabre™]

Only change I would make is make Poison super effective against one or two more types. Having it only beat Grass really limits its usefulness, especially since a good number of Grass types are dual Poison types.

Otherwise, the type chart is fine as-is.

 

[Yoshikko]

The type chart is pretty unbalanced imo, I've always thought it was. Steel for example has overall low special defense and its main weakness is fire, which pretty much ohko's it because of that. Same goes for rock, with a main water weakness (and it's a very frail type in general, it has 5 weaknesses in total). Ice is a very weak type seeing how it has 4 weaknesses which are all more than common, and no resistances apart from itself. Combined with another type it either becomes even worse or gets some of it weaknesses cancelled out, which makes it about as good as a monotype while being a dualtype, at best. And while poison is a good defensive type with only 2 weaknesses and 3 resistances, it's only super effective to grass and like someone already pointed out, lots of grass types are also poison type. Same goes for ghost, defensive wise. All of this might make sense in regards to real life, but that causes that it's unbalanced yeah. Lol rock and ice are about the worst types out there even.

 

[XEL]

If anything, I'd give Dragons more resistances, to be honest. But they are already plenty powerful they are, so I really have no arguments for the cause other than what I believe. For one, how can Dragons resist Grass but not the similar Bug? And you're telling me they can resist the elements but not a Normal type? I also thought Poison and Fighting resistances might've worked, due to how thick Dragon hide is in mythology.

 

[Overlord Drakow]

The thing that screams out at me is why the hell does Dark have a weakness to Bug? Couple of other things but that is the one that stands out for me.

 

[Sheep]

That'd completely un-balance and break the game.

Big changes to the damage mechanics would need to be implemented for it to work, hence the "if we were to go more advanced" part of my post. It's a semi-realistic idea but at this stage probably wouldn't be a good change to actually implement. Just throwin' out ideas lol.

And as for ghosts being weak to fire, it's just something I can personally see happening. :P Some of the current type strengths and weaknesses don't make much sense either - it's not all about what makes sense and what doesn't.

Oh, gotta agree with making poison types a bit better. The fact that they're only super effective against grass types completely slipped my mind.

 

[Jellicent♀]

I never understood some things about the type chart. Like, why isn't Bug weak against Poison? Don't the y make poisons specifically for BUGS? Why is Dark WEAK against Bugs? How is darkness weak to a housefly? I don't get that. Why isn't Steel super-effective against a Flying type? Can't you kill birds with a bullet, or are they just pretending? I never understood how Psychics are strong against Poison types, though. That's one of the few that really get my confused.

 

[Legobricks]

I'd make Bug resist Dragon, remove its weakness to Rock and restore its weakness to Poison.
Why? The notion to resist Dragon came to me from Monster Hunter, and it would make useful a type with many weak constituents (ie. low average base stat total). As for the weakness changes, bugs often live among rocks, and Rock is already a strong offensive type, along with the fact that many bugs are also part Flying which makes them doubly weak (having most members of a modestly-powered type as that is wholly unfair in my opinion); restoring the weakness to Poison also comes partly from Monster Hunter, though it was already there in the first generation and would help the Poison type be at least as offensively strong as it used to be.

 

[bobandbill]

I suppose it would be rather hard to adjust the typing system so everyone was happy with it tbh... to make it balanced and not too unbelieveably so would be a challenge in itself. Then you have the whole 'it'd contradict several years of canon' - sure, they introduced two new types in the 2nd gen, but have kept it the same ever since and to change it now would be quite an odd move, and beg the question of 'why not change ____ too?' as well. In any 'realistic' system (or as realistic as the Pokemon games are going to get anyway without having fire beat water or whatnot) there's going to be some types that are worse off than others. Which isn't that bad a thing; it'd be more boring if everything was equal, imo.

So despite the minor issues it has now (which are smaller than what they were in gen one, which was why they brought in the two new types in the first place) I'm fine with it staying as it is and envision that to be the case too.

 

[Lain Vesper]

If anything, I'd give Dragons more resistances, to be honest. But they are already plenty powerful they are, so I really have no arguments for the cause other than what I believe. For one, how can Dragons resist Grass but not the similar Bug? And you're telling me they can resist the elements but not a Normal type? I also thought Poison and Fighting resistances might've worked, due to how thick Dragon hide is in mythology.

Dragon's way fine the way it is. Dragon was meant to "resist the elements", similar to the "dragons are impervious to magic" myth from mid-evil times: i.e. Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric. It's weak to Ice, however, because Dragon types are inherently Reptilian/cold-blooded and or because many are fire-breathing. However, Dragon does half to Steel becomes many dragons in myth have been slain by special, mystical swords (although that logic makes more sense if Steel doubled Dragon). Either way, Dragon has no need for a type change, except that I too thought it'd be nice if Dragon did half to Bug, but I think Dark and Psychic should do that.

I never understood some things about the type chart. Like, why isn't Bug weak against Poison? Don't they make poisons specifically for BUGS? Why is Dark WEAK against Bugs? How is darkness weak to a housefly? I don't get that. Why isn't Steel super-effective against a Flying type? Can't you kill birds with a bullet, or are they just pretending? I never understood how Psychics are strong against Poison types, though. That's one of the few that really get my confused.

I think Bug isn't weak against Poison partly because of well...Parasect. That thing is 4* weak to both Flying and Fire as it is. Besides, I think it makes more sense that Poison doubled Water (in the sense of pollution) and definitely Fighting.

Steel doesn't double Flying because Steel's already hugely defensive and doesn't need anymore boosts...If anything, it should either do half or not effect Ghost types. Bullets will kill any living thing (Normal, Fighting, Bug, in this case), except like trees, so it's not too good of a reason.

Dark (and Bug in some cases) is a very conceptual type. When I talked about the type chart years ago to some other pokemon players, based on Dark's advantage over Psychic and Ghost, we came to the conclusion that the Dark type embodies dirty, intelligent, calculated fighting. Psychic and Ghost don't do well because Dark types are mentally very stable therefore cannot be outsmarted or possessed. They prefer calculated fighting (although Dark type MOVES themselves do not follow this description), therefore they are weak against Fighting because Fighting simply overpowers them, and because Fighting embodies "the hero" of the story and Dark embodies "the villain," and we all know the "hero always defeats the villain."

As for Bug, in the case of Fire, Grass, Bug, Fighting, Poison, Rock, Flying, and to Steel, it is very biological in logic. But in it's case towards Dark and Psychic, it seems conceptually based on the "hive-mind" notion. Psychic and Dark can't defeat them mentally or outsmart them because there are simply so much of them and they are so bent on the same goal(s). Balance wise - Psychic and Dark needed weaknesses, and Bug is one of the worst types to exist.

Why Bug does half to Ghost, I can't tell you.