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Dark Souls III

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  • I can see your point, but the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive as far as I'm concerned. The games do market themselves heavily around their apparent difficulty, yes, but things have come a long way since Demon's Souls and pretending that it's ONLY the challenge that makes these games appealing to their audience is a farce. The difficulty hype is built-up mostly around the more rabid sections of the fandom who think other people actually give a damn about how apparently good they are at games. It was what drew a lot of people to the games, but it's not what is keeping a lot of them playing. If that were the case we wouldn't have had three interconnected titles steeped in hidden lore and a complex narrative you take the time to explore it. They would have been standalone titles like Demon's Souls and Bloodborne. They've made their name being challenging titles, but I'd say that is about it.

    I think what bothers me is the attitude of the fandom more than anything else, though. The idea that an easy mode would somehow tarnish the game is utterly ridiculous. Accessibility and maintaining a high level of difficulty are not mutually exclusive; this is why difficulty options exist in the first place. Difficulty options aren't a new thing in games, and taking less damage or whatever they'd do to make Dark Souls less punishing for newer players wouldn't change the default difficulty of the game. It wouldn't stop experienced players from playing how they choose, and it would allow the less experienced to enjoy themselves. The whole point of playing is to have fun.

    Also, using exploits to make the game easier is fine, but having the game actually BE easier because of a difficulty option isn't? It amounts to the same thing.

    That whole video is especially stupid cause invading someone who rolls with 3 other phantoms isn't fun at all. Trying to fight 4 other players at once? No thanks, fam. It's all dumb, but I digress.

    Moving on to the issue of an easier difficulty in a souls game, they've had...what, 3 games to consider that option? And Bloodborne had a stealth version of it, where if you took too long to get past a certain area, that particular boss was substantially weaker and has much less health. I don't have a problem with that because difficulty shouldn't get in the way of progression to a point where you can't enjoy the game. But again, the souls games have been known for difficulty, and as much as I don't really want to say this, if people waited until Dark Souls 3 to give a damn about the souls games anyway, that's their own faults, and they're the only ones who want the difficulty to be lower in the first place. The thing to note is that most of these games are simply learning and using knowledge gained to advance where you couldn't before. Only a few bosses are actually problematic, and most enemies are manageable as long as you use your brain. None of it is unfair enough to warrant wanting an easy mode. Scholar of the First Sin made the game HARDER. No complaints from anyone. DKS3 comes out and suddenly people want to ask for an Easy mode? Where were you guys at when Dark Souls came out? (I'll leave out Demon's Souls cause that was a PS3 exclusive)

    I don't think the whole problem is even the games having an Easy mode, a lot of the problem for me is that people who legit don't play the game/have never had enough interest in the games until 3 lack competence, and want something that the games never had. And when there isn't an accommodating option for said people, they want to cry "THIS GAME ISN'T ACCESSIBLE I JUST WANT TO ENJOY IT AND HAVE FUN". And if we want to use the lore as an argument, then uh...wouldn't it make sense to start with the earlier games in the series? You're going to have to anyway, unless you just go on youtube and watch lore videos, and at that point you should just do the same for 3 and NOT BUY IT. If you bought a game known for its difficulty and expected anything else, that's your own fault, Yes, the point of games is to have fun, but if the game was designed from the jump to be a certain way and have been that way, you can't come in and be like "MUH FUN" when you knew what you were walking into. You don't jump into an MMO game and be like "Well I just wanted to have fun". If you don't learn how to play, you won't get any enjoyment, cause you actually won't be able to do the content of the game. And if you're getting carried, you aren't even really playing. Same with this. What's the point of buying a game and you summon your friends to do all the work? You aren't even playing the game at that point. You're playing a mini-game in a Blu-Ray movie. You could have....WATCHED VIDEOS ON THE LORE. Where's the fun in that?

    But if I go on a tirade about how the game is partially established by the difficulty itself and the idea of getting good at a game and the sense of accomplishment provided by surpassing the trials that the game lays out to me, there's a problem? If the guys at FromSoft actually didn't believe in the "Git gud" thing we would have had an Easy mode long time ago, in DKS3 and in Armored Core. Which, btw, are ALL pretty damn tough. There's Easy mode in any of the Armored Core games whatsoever.

    EDIT: Seeing as the summoning thing is pretty free anyway, I'll retract a bit on the sole fact that I can't tell someone else how to enjoy their game. If you want to summon people, go ahead. But don't go asking for an easy mode when summoning people makes the game easy enough to get through it anyway.

    EDIT 2: The Bloodborne thing was a bug. I apologize, you can disregard that.
     
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    Lumina

    Lucid Melody
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  • It's funny because there are so many ways to make the game easier for yourself. There may not be an "easy mode/hard mode" toggle, but there are plenty of ways to make your own.

    Play a mage.
    Play a ranged spec of almost any kind really.
    Summon phantoms to help you through areas.
    Play offline so you can't be invaded.
    Play a tank with massive stamina and a big-ass greatshield and ultra-greatsword.
    Learn how to dodge effectively to eliminate the need for a shield and improve your options.
    The list goes on. These games let you choose your own difficulty, to a certain degree.
     

    pkmin3033

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    That whole video is especially stupid cause invading someone who rolls with 3 other phantoms isn't fun at all. Trying to fight 4 other players at once? No thanks, fam. It's all dumb, but I digress.

    Moving on to the issue of an easier difficulty in a souls game, they've had...what, 3 games to consider that option? And Bloodborne had a stealth version of it, where if you took too long to get past a certain area, that particular boss was substantially weaker and has much less health. I don't have a problem with that because difficulty shouldn't get in the way of progression to a point where you can't enjoy the game. But again, the souls games have been known for difficulty, and as much as I don't really want to say this, if people waited until Dark Souls 3 to give a damn about the souls games anyway, that's their own faults, and they're the only ones who want the difficulty to be lower in the first place. The thing to note is that most of these games are simply learning and using knowledge gained to advance where you couldn't before. Only a few bosses are actually problematic, and most enemies are manageable as long as you use your brain. None of it is unfair enough to warrant wanting an easy mode. Scholar of the First Sin made the game HARDER. No complaints from anyone. DKS3 comes out and suddenly people want to ask for an Easy mode? Where were you guys at when Dark Souls came out? (I'll leave out Demon's Souls cause that was a PS3 exclusive)

    I don't think the whole problem is even the games having an Easy mode, a lot of the problem for me is that people who legit don't play the game/have never had enough interest in the games until 3 lack competence, and want something that the games never had. And when there isn't an accommodating option for said people, they want to cry "THIS GAME ISN'T ACCESSIBLE I JUST WANT TO ENJOY IT AND HAVE FUN". And if we want to use the lore as an argument, then uh...wouldn't it make sense to start with the earlier games in the series? You're going to have to anyway, unless you just go on youtube and watch lore videos, and at that point you should just do the same for 3 and NOT BUY IT. If you bought a game known for its difficulty and expected anything else, that's your own fault, Yes, the point of games is to have fun, but if the game was designed from the jump to be a certain way and have been that way, you can't come in and be like "MUH FUN" when you knew what you were walking into. You don't jump into an MMO game and be like "Well I just wanted to have fun". If you don't learn how to play, you won't get any enjoyment, cause you actually won't be able to do the content of the game. And if you're getting carried, you aren't even really playing. Same with this. What's the point of buying a game and you summon your friends to do all the work? You aren't even playing the game at that point. You're playing a mini-game in a Blu-Ray movie. You could have....WATCHED VIDEOS ON THE LORE. Where's the fun in that?

    But if I go on a tirade about how the game is partially established by the difficulty itself and the idea of getting good at a game and the sense of accomplishment provided by surpassing the trials that the game lays out to me, there's a problem? If the guys at FromSoft actually didn't believe in the "Git gud" thing we would have had an Easy mode long time ago, in DKS3 and in Armored Core. Which, btw, are ALL pretty damn tough. There's Easy mode in any of the Armored Core games whatsoever.

    EDIT: Seeing as the summoning thing is pretty free anyway, I'll retract a bit on the sole fact that I can't tell someone else how to enjoy their game. If you want to summon people, go ahead. But don't go asking for an easy mode when summoning people makes the game easy enough to get through it anyway.

    There is nothing wrong with getting a feeling of pride or accomplishment from beating something challenging; I never said that. For a lot of people that IS their way of having fun in games, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. It's great you can get that kind of satisfaction from a game. There IS, however, something wrong with acting as though you should be the only person who should be entitled to that. Acting as though your sense of accomplishment will be somehow diminished just because others might get that same sense of accomplishment if they can enjoy it too by playing on easy. Acting as though you can't possibly enjoy the game if it caters to the "filthy casuals" as well. Explain to me, if you can, how and why someone else's - someone less experienced with these titles who wants to try them - enjoyment of these games would affect yours. Would you USE an easy mode if it were included? No? So how would it possibly affect you if it was included? It wouldn't. So why are you so dead set against it? I honestly can't understand the objection to the idea.

    The whole "git gud" thing is pathetic and entirely unnecessary trolling, and it originated more from the fandom than it did the developers, so I'm not going to dwell on it. Sure, they haven't done anything to discourage it openly, but at the same time, they've done a lot to address it - you've already pointed out examples of ways they've done that in later titles yourself. An easy mode at this point, I will admit and agree, would seem out of place, because if they were going to include one it really should have been in the first Dark Souls (well, maybe in the inevitable remaster/trilogy collection we'll probably get once DS3's DLC is all out, hm?) to set a precedent for it, but it would only be confirming what we all already know in this game: the games have gotten easier since Demon's Souls. Substantially easier. The games have ridiculous difficulty spikes at certain bosses and that is it. In some ways it would be BETTER for these so-called "hardcore" fans, because then things like Scholar of the First Sin's difficulty modifications could be incorporated and expanded upon, and these things that have annoyed the fans so much would be consigned to Easy Mode. Ever consider that?

    I wasn't using the lore as an argument for making the games easier, either. It was a point to illustrate that there is more to Dark Souls than it's difficulty level, and that people shouldn't get so focused on it, or use it as a justification for not having an easy mode. That there is lore at all that spans three games shows this; they're not standalone titles, and it's not an afterthought. It's a story all of its own, and it's just as much of a reason to play as anything else. I ask you though, why people who want to experience it should have to watch videos. Why shouldn't they be able to play the games and enjoy them the same as you or other so-called "hardcore" fans? Why should you be the only ones allowed to play and enjoy these titles? Making a suggestion to not buy the game is only harming the franchise as well; the whole point of its creation is to sell.

    Also, I think you'll find different people play games in different ways. Maybe you don't think it's really playing if you're carried through it, but plenty of people would disagree with you. In MMOs you have guilds designed solely for this, and people frequently join their friends until they're confident enough to stand on their own two feet, if ever. They shouldn't be able to do this in Dark Souls...why? They should play as you think they should...why? A lot of people don't really want to learn the finer points of games, either - they just want to go in and have a good time and not get flayed for every little mistake they make. I think, where this is scope for that to happen, it should - the more who can play, the better. I don't agree with that attitude personally, but I don't think people should be excluded from playing because of it. I know I've been impatient enough to get stuck into games sometimes, and if something is TOO hard then it's extremely off-putting sometimes. You want to learn, but you have no viable way of doing so other than frustrating repeated failure. Some people don't have the patience for it. Some do. Why should those that don't miss out when they could have a great time on an easier difficulty setting?

    I think it should have happened with Dark Souls from the beginning; I'm not making a case for DS3 being an exception here. My argument, and my irritation, lies with the reaction that the very idea that other people less skilled might be able to play the games too generates. It's ridiculous. Elitist. Exclusionary. Toxic, even.

    But the fandom object to the very idea of an option for an easier difficulty setting purely because it isn't what they want. It's selfish, plain and simple. I fail to see how an easy mode would damage any part of the experience if it was clearly labelled as such and was entirely optional. If anything, I think it would be beneficial, because if there is an easy mode, there will be a hard mode as well, which could go above and beyond what the games already offer and offer a REAL challenge for experienced players who can just blaze through these things.

    At this point it's just self-righteous fans not wanting other people to enjoy the experience, and nothing more.

    From my own personal view, I wouldn't use an easy mode, because outside of certain bosses I have never really struggled with a Souls game; they're not the type of games I find difficult...although I have yet to finish Bloodborne, but plan on going back to it. It came out at a bad time and I haven't really adjusted to the faster combat flow yet. But I digress. It saddens me that people get so angry at the idea of people less skilled than they are enjoying the games they do. As a fan, shouldn't you WANT the fandom to get bigger, so it continues into the future? Haven't you ever considered the positives that could come from an easy mode - the possibility of a hard mode, an end to artificial difficulty and exploits, etc? Is the perceived difficulty REALLY the only reason people play these games? It's disheartening.

    In any case, I've said my piece. It's up to you how you enjoy your game, and if that is so dependant on others not being able to enjoy it as well...well, whatever, I guess. I suppose I can understand the idea that pride in an accomplishment is diminished if others can do it too, but...eh. I suppose my personal philosophy is incompatible with the idea, which is why I struggle so much to understand it, and I have an automatic bias against fandoms, so there's that. I just thought it was an interesting point to raise is all.
     
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  • Alright I'll go bit by bit on this cause that's a lot to read and I actually can't do it in one go so I'll address the important points that stood out to me.

    Explain to me, if you can, how and why someone else's - someone less experienced with these titles who wants to try them - enjoyment of these games would affect yours. Would you USE an easy mode if it were included? No? So how would it possibly affect you if it was included? It wouldn't. So why are you so dead set against it? I honestly can't understand the objection to the idea.

    Personally? I could care less if some other dude uses Easy mode or not if it's implemented. But Souls games don't implement it, and not every game needs to appeal to every sort of gamer. The fact that an easy mode would be incorporated in the Souls game would quite frankly go against what the Souls games are about. Ninja Gaiden, another game known for difficulty, doesn't even have Easy mode as a default option until you die like...3 times at the same part, and that wasn't until Ninja Gaiden Black. They don't openly tell you about that Easy mode, either. That in and out of itself kinda establishes that they want you to try different things or just play better. Difference being in this case is that you can summon people in Dark Souls 3, but for all withstanding it's the same thing. I'd ask how you'd implement an Easy mode in the Souls games but that's another discussion for another day.

    The whole "git gud" thing is pathetic and entirely unnecessary trolling, and it originated more from the fandom than it did the developers, so I'm not going to dwell on it.
    I disagree on this for a multitude of reasons. Sure it can be unnecessary trolling at times, but it stems from a lot of truth too. The game is hard, and the game is known for being hard, but trial and error is very apparent. You can manage through the game no problem by simply learning. I feel like a lot of people underestimate the amount of complaining that comes from losing to something that seems very dumb, only to have found an answer to it and be like "Huh, that wasn't hard at all! Why didn't I just do that instead, or roll earlier, or attack while sprinting or w/e"
    Prime Example: I had to fight this one NPC yesterday who I thought was extremely unfair. Simply changing my weapon and using a different method made the fight IMMENSELY easier. Are you telling me that other players are incapable of doing the same thing? Just changing how they play to overcome the obstacle in front of them? If you waited until Dark Souls 3 to ask for the Easy mode, you just look like a fool to me, because it wasn't a desired option before and wasn't even thought about because the game was established from the jump /FOR/ its difficulty.

    The games have ridiculous difficulty spikes at certain bosses and that is it. In some ways it would be BETTER for these so-called "hardcore" fans, because then things like Scholar of the First Sin's difficulty modifications could be incorporated and expanded upon, and these things that have annoyed the fans so much would be consigned to Easy Mode. Ever consider that?
    I'd need a bit more elaboration on this one before I say anything. I'm having trouble understanding this one. (I suck I know I'm sorry ;))

    I wasn't using the lore as an argument for making the games easier, either. It was a point to illustrate that there is more to Dark Souls than it's difficulty level, and that people shouldn't get so focused on it, or use it as a justification for not having an easy mode. That there is lore at all that spans three games shows this; they're not standalone titles, and it's not an afterthought. It's a story all of its own, and it's just as much of a reason to play as anything else. I ask you though, why people who want to experience it should have to watch videos. Why shouldn't they be able to play the games and enjoy them the same as you or other so-called "hardcore" fans? Why should you be the only ones allowed to play and enjoy these titles? Making a suggestion to not buy the game is only harming the franchise as well; the whole point of its creation is to sell.
    I'm very aware that you didn't use the argument, and in this case it probably wasn't something that should have been brought up, but many other people have and I felt that it should have been addressed all the same. Moving onto the reason why people who want to experience it should have to watch videos on it, I say that because the game is not going to incorporate an Easy mode to accommodate the select few who are asking for it. The success of the past games says that in volumes, and it's a testament as to why the game doesn't even need such a thing. My grand point there is that people who say it needs an easy mode are probably one of three things:


    1. People who bought the game and got stuck and thought it was too hard. Well From still made their money so....what do they care at that point?
    2. People who want to just have fun and feel like they shouldn't be locked out of that cause the game is too challenging. Now I can somewhat understand this and I want to say I feel for you, but again, not every game is going to accommodate everyone. And that's fine. I don't like RTS games like that, and I don't expect the developers to add something into those games to accommodate people who don't like them. They have their market, and that's fine. This is no different except for the argument of "well if it adds an easy mode and it's an option it doesn't remove anything", but then you're not playing the game the way the developers made it to be played.
    3. Casuals. Quite literally. Not that there's anything wrong with a casual don't get me wrong, but not every game is FOR casuals.

    You want to learn, but you have no viable way of doing so other than frustrating repeated failure.
    If I have issues with a matchup in a fighting game, I can watch videos and ask people on how to approach it. Why can't people look at videos and ask people about how to progress through a certain area of the game or overcome the boss that's giving them problems? Are you saying that they shouldn't have to do that? That's...I don't agree with that.

    I think it should have happened with Dark Souls from the beginning; I'm not making a case for DS3 being an exception here. My argument, and my irritation, lies with the reaction that the very idea that other people less skilled might be able to play the games too generates. It's ridiculous. Elitist. Exclusionary. Toxic, even.
    I don't know about those guys, and I won't speak on them because I don't consider myself among them. I don't mind the idea of new players, don't misunderstand. But the idea and the concept behind the game was established already, and if they didn't do it from the first game, and the games after that, you knew, I knew, and at this point other people KNEW that it wasn't changing. IF the games had an easy mode from the beginning, then it would be a whole different case, because they'd have established that they want everyone to be able to enjoy the game. But since they didn't, well....you know what I'm going to say. That's the issue, and it may be the issue for the people who you call elitist/purists/whatever, even though I think they can definitely be more civil about it.

    It saddens me that people get so angry at the idea of people less skilled than they are enjoying the games they do. As a fan, shouldn't you WANT the fandom to get bigger, so it continues into the future? Haven't you ever considered the positives that could come from an easy mode - the possibility of a hard mode, an end to artificial difficulty and exploits, etc? Is the perceived difficulty REALLY the only reason people play these games? It's disheartening.
    Again, if there was an Easy mode from the first game, there'd be no issue. But there isn't. And to be honest, there's nothing wrong with people playing the games for the difficulty. Games can be hard as hell and still be a good game, just as people can play a game that's casual as hell and it can still be a good. Souls games already established who the game is marketed to, and if they cared about expanding that fanbase, the change would have happened already. And Miyazaki already established that this isn't the last souls game, so clearly he's content in the players who are buying it.
     
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    Nah

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    I should note that I don't personally care much if an easy mode was to be added to Dark Souls so long as I still get to play it on the standard difficulty, I was just commenting on how it'd be strange to do so from a development or marketing perspective is all.



    Something I wanted to ask though is that a couple of people in this thread have said that Scholar of the First Sin updates made Dark Souls 2 harder? Was wondering what exactly it did to make it harder. I'm still in the middle of playing Dark Souls 2 and my copy is a SotFS edition so....

    though I think there's also something wrong with my copy because there are some things that are out of place and stuff
     

    Sir Codin

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    Goddamn I really opened up a can of worms didn't I? The whole git gud is simple: get good. Considerable practice makes you better at the game. It also encourages a healthy behavior of not giving up and this also fit into the lore of the series: if you give up and ragequit, that is you going Hollow. I sucked too at first and tried multiple times to get into Dark Souls before I plowed through and beat it. I will never forget that euphoric feeling of finally beating Capra or Artorias. That's the beauty of the series. It respects you. It won't hold your hand and treat you like someone who got a participation trophy. And what really makes me respect FROM is they have not sacrificed that concept or integrity for the sake of increasing marketing appeal. Not all games are for everyone and no one should expect them to be. And in a grand twist of irony, that ended up being one of its biggest selling points.

    Besides, Dark Souls does have an easy mode besides those already mentioned. It's called The Witcher.
     
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  • Something I wanted to ask though is that a couple of people in this thread have said that Scholar of the First Sin updates made Dark Souls 2 harder? Was wondering what exactly it did to make it harder. I'm still in the middle of playing Dark Souls 2 and my copy is a SotFS edition so....

    Added enemies to certain areas and adjusted enemy placements. DLC was pretty damn tough too for the record. Some of it was pretty unfair in a few ways but that's another story.

    Besides, Dark Souls does have an easy mode besides those already mentioned. It's called The Witcher.

    Yo don't disrespect The Witcher, that game is hot.

    But funny story. First time I bought Demon's Souls, I took it back to GameStop the same day cause it was too hard. Went back and said "You know what, nah, I ain't going down like that".

    Now...well look where I am.
     
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    Sir Codin

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    Dark Souls 2 was controversial partially because it had some fake difficulty, which ended up getting fixed in 3. One irritating aspect was enemy attacks tracking your movement in such a way you'd think they were all psychic. 3 toned that down a bit and yet I've somehow died more times in 3 then I ever did on my first run of 2.
     

    Sir Codin

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    I can't see how this is anything other than a good thing, myself. If anything, they should take it one step further and have options like this in offline PvE gameplay.

    They are called NPC Summons. Exhibit A: Solaire.
     

    machomuu

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  • I do find it pretty interesting that these walls of text spawned from something that doesn't actually exist.

    Even moreso the backlash behind the game being for the player. Surprisingly relevant to what we were talking about in regards to localization, actually.
     
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  • I do find it pretty interesting that these walls of text spawned from something that doesn't actually exist.

    Even moreso the backlash behind the game being for the player. Surprisingly relevant to what we were talking about in regards to localization, actually.

    It's an interesting subject, I think. There's lots of ways to look at it, but honestly, from the outside it kinda just seems like purists/elitists saying "piss off" when it really isn't the case at all. But I digress, not everyone thinks like I do. Beauty of opinions.
     

    machomuu

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  • It's an interesting subject, I think. There's lots of ways to look at it, but honestly, from the outside it kinda just seems like purists/elitists saying "piss off" when it really isn't the case at all. But I digress, not everyone thinks like I do. Beauty of opinions.
    One thing I'll disagree on (potentially among others), though, is this idea that the Souls series has a targeted audience in terms of its difficulty. I think that's 100% opposite the design of the games both as Action RPGs and in terms of how they were designed to be played. Which is to say, Souls is hardly a game that can't be beaten with dedication by just around anyone. I suppose you could liken it to a Rhythm game in that sense, where, generally, you aren't good at Rhythm Games as a genre, you just get better at the ones that you're playing. That's how they work. Souls is the same. And you can have all the strats you want, but it doesn't really matter since Souls accommodates your playstyle, anyway. Because that's what Souls is.

    There's no right way to play. Efficient, sure, but not right. That's the fun of a good ARPG.

    Sure, the games are known for their difficulty, but the idea that some casual could come up and beat the game without dying? Not out of the cards, and really, not all that unlikely (hell, I daresay a non-gamer Souls virgin might have an easier time than a gamer simply due to expectations and how the series uses that against you). This is why pretty much anyone can come in from being a fan of any genre and just enjoy themselves. Dark Souls isn't Kaizo or IWBTG or Eryi's Action, and it was never trying to be.

    And honestly, if people want to complain about Souls' difficulty or tone it down with an easy more or whatever, I say let 'em. Because there's no substitute. There is no Souls-lite, no matter how much you dress up another ARPG to seem like it. Elder Scrolls isn't. The Witcher isn't. Dragon's Dogma isn't. Ys isn't. There just isn't a Souls-lite or Souls alternative, and until we get that clone/successor/ARPG that feels just as good- which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon, I don't give a good shit about whether people wanna tone down the difficulty in their game. Well, I don't in general, but I think the people crying out against the notion should be a little more patient, because until a substitute does exist, I think it's a perfectly valid idea.
     
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  • One thing I'll disagree on (potentially among others), though, is this idea that the Souls series has a targeted audience in terms of its difficulty. I think that's 100% opposite the design of the games both as Action RPGs and in terms of how they were designed to be played. Which is to say, Souls is hardly a game that can't be beaten with dedication by just around anyone.
    Editing cause I misread. I don't disagree with the idea that the game can be beaten by anyone. But...then we're going back to the stuff we already talked about in earlier posts and I don't want this particular topic to go on further than it already has.

    Sure, the games are known for their difficulty, but the idea that some casual could come up and beat the game without dying? Not out of the cards, and really, not all that unlikely (hell, I daresay a non-gamer Souls virgin might have an easier time than a gamer simply due to expectations and how the series uses that against you). This is why pretty much anyone can come in from being a fan of any genre and just enjoy themselves. Dark Souls isn't Kaizo or IWBTG or Eryi's Action, and it was never trying to be.
    Well no one is beating the game without dying except for the very VERY dedicated/those bossman speed runners but they've learned the game inside out for a very long time. But that's besides the point. I can vouch on the "some casual can come in and just be aight" cause I have some friends that haven't really played Souls games that heavy. Beat the first boss in one go. Sure it's just the first boss, but for someone who doesn't actively play the Souls games, that's pretty damned impressive in my book.

    And honestly, if people want to complain about Souls' difficulty or tone it down with an easy more or whatever, I say let 'em. Because there's no substitute. There is no Souls-lite, no matter how much you dress up another ARPG to seem like it. Elder Scrolls isn't. The Witcher isn't. Dragon's Dogma isn't. Ys isn't. There just isn't a Souls-lite or Souls alternative, and until we get that clone/successor/ARPG that feels just as good- which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon, I don't give a good **** about whether people wanna tone down the difficulty in their game. Well, I don't in general, but I think the people crying out against the notion should be a little more patient, because until a substitute does exist, I think it's a perfectly valid idea.
    Well actually there is Lords of the Fallen which is....well it's as close as you're getting to a Souls game. Salt and Sanctuary isn't a ARPG but it follows a similar concept as the Souls games do. But I feel what you're saying.
     
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    Sir Codin

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    This video provides some nice insight into this whole "difficulty" issue and some other topics:



    Also, Hakuman, you know how we spent a half-page on the topic of me thinking katanas are BS?

    LOOK AT ME, I'M A HYPOCRITE:
    Spoiler:
     
    Last edited:
    1,121
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  • Also, Hakuman, you know how we spent a half-page on the topic of me thinking katanas are BS?

    LOOK AT ME, I'M A HYPOCRITE:
    Spoiler:


    If it makes you feel ANY better, I rock the Uchigatana heavy on my STR build simply because Hold stance is so damn fun.

    Also, I think I might have found the best glamour in the game. Blind Swordsman, here we come.

    Spoiler:
     

    Sir Codin

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    My character will use Int or Fire buffing with a Sharp katana.
    SL 125

    VIG 40
    ATT 30
    END 30
    VIT 15
    STR 12
    DEX 30
    INT 25
    FAI 25
    LCK 7
     
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  • Go for Chaos. No reason not to lol.

    I'm going all quality build myself for SL 125.

    VIG 35
    ATT 10
    END 37
    VIT 25
    STR 40
    DEX 40
    INT 10
    FAI 10
    LCK 7
     

    Sir Codin

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    Go for Chaos. No reason not to lol.

    I'm going all quality build myself for SL 125.

    VIG 35
    ATT 10
    END 37
    VIT 25
    STR 40
    DEX 40
    INT 10
    FAI 10
    LCK 7
    Thing is, I wanna do Fashion Souls crap like what's pictured above with my katana with Flame Arc or Magic Weapon and you can only do that with weapons that are Regular, Sharp, Heavy, Raw, or Refined.
     
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