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[Sword & Shield] Dexit

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  • SwSh are the first main series games to not include all available Pokémon. Some people say this is inevitable with the number of Pokémon we have now totaling almost 900, while others still find this unacceptable. Do you care about this, or are you not bothered? Have any of your favorites not made in in?
     

    pkmin3033

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    In a lot of ways I'm not bothered because I haven't actually enjoyed a Pokemon game since Gen IV - it's been failing for me for a very long time. But honestly, I care about this because it is a very clear message that Pokemon is changing for the worse if this happens in future titles. It's a loud sign that there is something VERY wrong at Game Freak and/or TPC. Louder than the overall low quality of SnS in the grand scheme of things, if this is going to carry over into future titles.

    I realise that "Gotta catch 'em all" is a Western slogan and hasn't really been used in years, and outside of some of the spinoff titles it hasn't really been possible because of the diabolical way that certain Legendaries have been handled in limited-time events (for crying out loud, stop treating your goddamn infinite electronic products like limited run toys!) but there has always been a strong emphasis on continuity within the franchise, which is part of what has made it appealing to so many, myself included: the fact that you can carry over your favourites to the next game. That you can build up your collection, and that everything is valued and relevant. The element of choice. Don't like what's available in one game? Transfer your favourites across and play with them!

    Dexit not only undermines this in the worst possible way it also sends the message that some Pokemon just don't matter, which completely flies in the face of the idea that every Pokemon is relevant and important...and if that Pokemon not included is your favourite, then it also implies that you don't matter. Because the choice is very clearly based on what is popular, despite claims to the contrary. That is the main reason why Dexit is a very bad thing: it spits in the face of that continuity and the values that Pokemon as a franchise is built on.

    There are also Game Freak's numerous lies about the reasons for Dexit, which make it even harder to swallow. The models, which are exactly the same. Game balance, which has been completely undermined as they're adding in almost everything with the DLC, so clearly there wasn't much thought put into that. It being a "creative decision" which shows just how out of touch they are with their fans, because I haven't seen this much outrage on the internet about something since...god, I don't know. Final Fantasy XIII? Wind Waker? I think this eclipses both of those because those two WERE creative decisions, and a lot of people liked them. I have yet to meet someone who sees Dexit as a positive force for change. I have yet to see any tangible benefits for Dexit that outweigh the negatives.

    There has been absolutely no honesty regarding Dexit, which is part of what makes it such a disgusting thing: it's dragged Game Freak's reputation through the mud because they have deliberately lied to fans. There is no getting around that: some very blatant lies have been told. So even THEY know it's not acceptable. The cherry on the cake is Pokemon Home, which is a disgustingly overpriced subscription-based service which in no way lives up to the promise that it keeps your old Pokemon relevant. Combined with Home it is very obvious this was a decision born of marketing and desperation. It's about money. Because of course it is. But there is in benefit whatsoever to the consumer, so it's not acceptable. Asking more money for the same thing we've been getting previously either for free or at a lower price, to the cost of game quality, is not acceptable no matter which way you cut it.

    The idea that this was "inevitable" is laughable. Because time has very clearly demonstrated that it is entirely possible for Game Freak to code the Pokemon in: if this was REALLY such a monumental task, why is it that as we approach the release of The Crown Tundra less than a year later, almost everything has been patched back in? If TPC were willing to allow Game Freak to have more time to finish their products then they would have been in there from the start. The only thing "inevitable" about Dexit is that eventually Game Freak, TPC, or whoever would realise that Pokemon could be treated as generational gimmicks, and that completely excluding some in favour of others could be a very handy marketing tool. This is YOUR Pokemon game, because YOUR favourite Pokemon is in it! How much more appealing and exclusive does that sound than just having them all in there by default?

    So yeah, I care about Dexit because of what it represents: a slackening of the values that have underpinned the franchise for years, and a shift towards the AAA corporate bullshit that runs rampant through the industry. There is nothing positive about this.
     
    3,786
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    Dawn summed up basically everything I and the movement had in mind.

    Dexit is not inherently a malicious movement, as it is built on the series's stress of valuing how every Pokémon and love are equal and important, regardless of strengths.

    There are many Pokémon such as Venomoth, Donphan, Purugly, and Zebstrika, who haven't been part of any subsequent regional PokéDex as long as a whopping 20 years for some of them if you remove remakes from the equation. It's even more frustrating when Charizard is pampered more than Venusaur or Blastoise, who aren't even part of the main Galar Dex! Before DLC, the overall Pokémon programmed into the game were well short of the halfway mark.

    The excuse for their removal is apparently "High fidelity/High quality animations", which is immediately invalid the very moment Scorbunny's sprite was shown just hopping when using Double Kick, even though Pokémon like Clefable and even Snorlax have made the effort to use their feet when pulling off such a move in Pokémon Stadium of all things! Not to mention, we have Blaziken running up to the opponent to deliver a legitimate kick in Pokémon Battle Revolution, a visually pleasing game over 10 years old.

    Another deadbeat excuse GF claimed is "balancing", which hasn't meant squat for several years. Dynamaxing/Gigantamaxing is straight up busted by granting practically every available Pokémon stat boosts, debuffs on foes, summoning Weather and Terrains for even more STAB under the right circumstances. Max Geysers allow Swift Swimmers like Barraskewda to outrun to many Pokémon, and Max Knuckle also makes the aforementioned fishy a deadly brute that can plough through teams! There's also some Pokémon that are ridiculously OP like Galarian Darmanitan, Cinderace, and Dracovish, who have been banned to Ubers in no less than a year, which we haven't even reached just yet since SwSh's release! The removal of Mega Evolution also hurts a lot of viability, meaning Pokémon like Mawile and Sableye are easily overwhelmed and no longer as usable as before.

    It doesn't end there, sadly, as it also applies to moves, which saps even more Pokémon of vital tools like Pursuit or Hidden Power. The omission of Hidden Power is especially bad, because without it, special powerhouses like Jolteon or Salazzle have absolutely no reliable means of handling threats like Landorus-T (Who will no doubt return in the Crown Tundra) or Ferrothorn. Some Galarian special sweepers such as Inteleon or Frosmoth are also denied HP Fire, which is just as important as HP Ice. It gets even more ridiculous when the games had the gall to strip Vespiquen of both Heal Order and Roost, leaving the poor tanky queen with absolutely no means of self-healing.
     
    3,786
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    An honourable mention, continuing from my recent post, is the distribution of Pokémon.

    There's a surprising load of Yokai-based Pokémon that take up the 400 slots, rather than Pokémon that you'd think would fit right into Galar like Stoutland, Misdreavus, Dewgong, Miltank, Tauros, Mareep, Muk, Swanna, and Granbull.

    Bear in mind, Ireland has a close and lengthy history with Britain, which is more than enough proof of some of my choices.

    This might not seem important, but it is something I do feel obliged to bring up if I have been aware of it for some time now.
     

    Nah

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    It's not something that has bothered me personally since I don't really breed or battle much anymore, so there's little need for me for there to be all the Pokemon available in any given game. I even lucked out and Zekrom and Volcarona were added with the IoA DLC.

    I can also understand how enormous of a task it can be to do stuff for a series with ~900 creatures that will easily exceed 1000 and then some in our lifetimes.

    But the reasons given for doing it are a load of shit (as has already been touched on in this thread), and really they probably could be able to include every single Pokemon in each game if they wanted to. The insistence on putting out a game every year or two and the noticeably lackluster product that comes from a lack of development time is an issue I've had with the franchise for years.
     
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    I'm not bothered by the removal. I am bothered that they removed Pokemon only to sell them back as DLC.
     

    Inky

    :pleading_face:
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    Honestly it didn't bother me at all as I've never been one to complete the Pokédex or transfer mons between games, tho I understand why others were upset. I'd agree it is a bit sucky that they essentially make you pay to access more Pokémon unless you trade for all of them, but I kinda expected that's what they'd end up doing.
     

    Reyzadren

    Arid trainer
    360
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  • I am not bothered by it at all, because I always have no expectation that they would even allow most/all pokemon in any game. Incidentally, my top 2 favourite pokemon are included, so that's always a plus point. It's just the fanbase bringing up non-issues over nothing as usual~
     

    Palamon

    Silence is Purple
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  • I wasn't really bothered by it, and I'm still not. They're gonna patch them all in eventually before generation 9. I knew some of my favorites weren't gonna make it in, and I can live with it. I'll continue to live with it. Some of my favorites did make it in like Sneasel, Litwick, Vulpix and Malamar. DLC added Slowpoke and the next DLC is adding Treecko.

    Even if they didn't make it, I can always just play the older games or use the Pokemon available to me in Sword/Shield. It's not a big deal to me. I don't really use Pokemon home much, anyway, aside from sometimes putting my dupes in there to trade away in the Pokemon Home GTS, so.

    Back during X/Y, Pokemon Bank/Transporter wasn't even out yet, so some Pokemon weren't available then, either but there wasn't any outrage about that, I guess.

    I'm sure next year, we'll get one last part to the DLC to patch the rest of the Pokemon in. Except maybe a few like Unown since Hidden Power is dead. I do understand why many people were upset, though, and their thoughts and feelings are not invalid about it. But, the people that harassed the game devs about it is NOT the way to go. This is why I'm numb to the discourse over it. Harassment is never okay.
     
    Last edited:
    1,440
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  • I don't like the move personally. It's tough too because my standards for the game go down every generation because it feels like the story is being phoned in and they make the games for the lowest common denominator (the insane hand holding in Sun and Moon as well as Sword and Shield). Now with the new gen games being on the most powerful console a Pokemon game has been on and the textures are terrible, the game is actually very small because you really only use the wild area postgame and compare the size to something like Breath of the Wild that came out years prior and it is pretty embarrasing.

    The Pokemon that did come back are disappointing as well. A lot of the models were brought over from the 3DS without updating the models and you can see it on some Pokemon where instead of a smooth curve, it is angular and looks sloppy. Now I don't know anything about game design but it really feels like Gamefreak has become complacent and they know they will sell millions of copies and suckers like me will pay 90 dollars for something that equates to a full 60 dollar game. Isle of Armour was what, MAYBE 5 hours? It looks like Crown Tundra will be even shorter and we paid 30 dollars for the content and Pokemon that we should have already had.

    I wish Pokemon had a serious competitor that would make them step their game up but I put about 30 hours into TemTem in hopes that it would be a good game but it sucks. Hopefully next years game (rumored gen 4 remake) knocks it out of the park and restores same faith in the franchise...
     

    _pheebee

    [I]Gosh! What's poppin'?[/i]
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  • I'm not bothered.

    The limited number of Pokémon has allowed me to go outside my comfort zone and find new favourite Pokémon, and now the DLC has added my favs back, I've got 3-4 teams now. So I have a lot of variety for online, local, and the League~!
     
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  • That option was already there lol... the option to try any Pokemon was always available to you but now it isn't because all of the Pokemon aren't there. I am sure there were people excited to try Pokemon they hadn't used but weren't included. There really isn't an upside for not including Pokemon. The meta game had been limited and boring if you play Smogon and if you just play Wifi you are still more limited in what you can use.
     

    PageEmp

    No money puns. They just don’t make cents.
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  • I seriously don't care, and I feel it's really a fucking dead horse that is still beaten to this day. I'm personally getting incredibly sick of it even though I do understand why people complain about it. I hope this post is the last post on this thread.
     

    pkmin3033

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    I think part of the problem with Dexit is how it's generally been regarded when it comes to how people have approached it. It's a very difficult thing for some to approach calmly and rationally, and those are the people who have had the most spotlight as they've been making death threats against the developers and spreading toxicity on social media. Neither of those things are OK and are very clear instances of misplaced anger. Be angry if you care, sure, but be reasonable about it. Nobody deserves to be threatened. But whilst the #GameFreakLied tag on Twitter was entirely true in how it came about, what it turned out to be was an absolute cesspit that only devalued the point that people were trying to make, and it only sparked a reactionary movement that got more attention because games journalists - and people in general - like to focus on the positive. To the point that criticism becomes invalid. There is an awful stigma against negativity on the internet that often applies to constructive and valid criticism when the two things overlap...which they often do, because people are overly sensitive when it comes to the things that they like.

    From what I've seen, most people who aren't positively invested in it associate Dexit with those people who make the wrong kind of noise about it, which is really bad for it. It's a legitimate complaint and a valid source of concern if you've been invested in the franchise for a long time and value the continuity the franchise has always offered by including every Pokemon in each game. It's not "making something out of nothing" or anything of the sort. But the way in which it has been approached focuses on entirely the wrong aspects of it - i.e. the negative backlash - and so...yeah, it's exhausting. There IS a degree of entitlement to the viewpoint that every Pokemon should always be in every game, but Game Freak are absolutely to blame for that by fostering this culture of continuity that has always been present in the franchise. If you don't like it then you don't have to buy it, and the developers owe you nothing, but you can't call people out for having expectations if those expectations have always been met prior to this, and there is nothing wrong with a consumer voicing a complaint about a product they are interested in. It goes both ways.

    Anyways, I hope the net outcome of Dexit will be positive, because this is the first time that Game Freak have ever responded to fan criticism, and whilst it's died down now a lot you can't ignore the impact it's had on the franchise. I somehow doubt that they would have patched in as many Pokemon as they have with the DLC if not for Dexit, and nor do I think that those Pokemon would have been made available as free patches; you would have had to pay for them as part of the DLC. Despite Masuda's insistence that this will be a practice that continues moving forward, I somehow doubt that will be the case now simply because Game Freak can't really afford the bad publicity and, for relatively little work - because these Pokemon are now on Switch - they can rake in an enormous amount of goodwill by using a National Pokedex as a selling point, and that can only improve sales - people who don't care won't bat an eye and will just buy the games anyway, and those who didn't buy SnS because of this will buy the next games. In short, what was probably the actual reason for Dexit - i.e. simply not having enough time to get all the 3DS models put on the Switch - is now gone. So we probably won't have an issue like this again.

    ...but we're still going to be left with Pokemon Home, and that is something far more problematic...
     
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  • I agree completely, of course threatening the devs and posting stupid shit on Twitter (i.e. anything on Twitter) is an unbalanced response to your pixels not being in your game. My issue with Dexit is that nothing in the game, to me, felt complete. We have seen much better textures from games much older on the Switch, the story felt half assed and not engaging. What was that scene with Rose and Leon where, at one point, there wasn't even animation it was just still frames?? It is all of these things compounding when you are the biggest intelluctual property in the world and you can't release a complete game. You are right as well since we continue to pay and you, "vote with you wallet" but this was the first time I felt Gamefreak really phoned it in with the game and they have been killing it for nearly 25 years so of course I'll give them a pass. I have still logged 170 hours in the game and I value games for my time at about a dollar an hour so 90 dollars for 170 hours and counting is still great value.

    The only reason I continue to voice my displeasure about Dexit is because I really hope it doesn't happen again and if Gamefreak keeps hearing about it then hopefully they will step it up. I think it was a good move making their first main series game on the Switch a two year plan because they should have had plenty of time to smooth out the kinks and, moving forward, the game coming out on the platform should be much better.
     

    pkmin3033

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    I'd be more inclined to blame TPC than Game Freak, at least to a point - it's difficult to really say without knowing what goes on behind the scenes, but looking at what we do know, it comes down to their deadline vs. Masuda's work ethic. At what point does their deadline become too short for them to make a higher quality product, and at what point does Masuda's insistence on smaller teams compromise their ability to do that with the time they have? Because really there was no sound business reason for them to not include every Pokemon in the games from the get-go: the models are the 3DS models, there is no competitive game balancing that justifies a smaller roster, and there is no way the Pokemon included in the games are all thematically suited to the Galar region, so it wasn't a creative decision. It was clearly a compromise, but was it due to a lack of time, a lack of resources, or some combination of both? Masuda's reaction makes me inclined to lay the blame on his shoulders, but what they've done with the DLC and the Pokemon they've added back in is very illuminating as it does suggest time was a major factor, and that'd be down to TPC putting pressure on Game Freak to release new games to tie in with the merchandise, because Nintendo definitely wouldn't apply pressure to have the games out by the holiday season.

    With SnS Dexit is definitely only one part of the problem, though - whether you enjoyed the games or not, I don't think there can be any denying that they cut corners in other areas of the games, as you say. You can excuse the narrative if you enjoyed it (after all, there is something to be said for minimalism as a storytelling tool if it is done correctly, your mind fills in the gaps and fandom theory runs wild; it works like a charm for the Zelda franchise to name but one) but there is no way the visuals can be excused. There is a shocking discrepancy between the new move animations and the old ones (people do focus a lot on the old moves, but they neglect to mention how flashy the new moves look, and I think it's important to give credit where credit is due in this instance) and the Wild Area visuals can only be described as poor, even going beyond the N64 trees. Part of this can be excused as Game Freak working on new hardware, but at the same time, the resources they have at their fingertips must be staggering, and they're not using them. Pokemon is definitely a series that should have a huge development team and a colossal budget, and there is no excuse for it to NOT have these things. But with SnS it clearly didn't. That compounds the issue really, as it's not just Dexit that is the problem with SnS, so it's all too easy to write it all off as haters gonna hate. It would be nice if Dexit was only a problem with SnS, but Masuda's comment that this will continue in future games is extremely concerning...honestly, every time Masuda has opened his mouth about SnS it's only been to twist the knife in an already irate part of the fandom.

    I think Dexit is still worth discussing because whilst it's unlikely Game Freak read all the comments on the internet, it's always worth voicing your displeasure, and only by doing this can you effect change...and you can definitely effect change by doing this. It's already happened within the confines of SnS, and the backlash could be all that prevents them from doing it in future titles. Given how close-mouthed Game Freak are about their business, you never know.
     
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  • I also have to wonder how much of it if GameFreak growing complacent? If you're right, and it seems likely you are, and TPC is pressuring GameFreak it might be sucking the life out of them as devolpers. We have all had shitty bosses and maybe haven't given it our best if we are doing something we don't totally believe in. Maybe this needed to happen for GameFreak to become inspired again, when there is more hype around a Gen 4 remake that has never been confirmed than your main series game there needs to be reevaluating. If TPC is set on these deadlines that squeeze GameFreak then two year plans for the main series games with 30 dollars of DLC may be the new move so that they have more time to develop better games.
     
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    Hi, guys. According to Dexit, I'm just wanting to know why you think some gens 1-7 Pokémon were excluded from Pokémon Sword and Shield, The Isle of Amor and The Crown Tundra? And do you think that they will return in the next games, whether Diamond and Pearl remakes, Let's Go Johto, Master Collection or gen 9 Pokémon games, besides third-to-final SwSh DLCs not actually going to become released?
     

    Setsuna

    ♡ Setsuna Scarlet Storm!!
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  • Overall, I think Pokémon as a series gets a lot of easy hate for a bunch of things and "Dexit" was just something that was easy for people to get mad at. Everyone seemed to be getting really upset about things like framerate slowdown in Sun and Moon, and the visual quality and animations of the pre-release content we got for Sword and Shield. I think it kinda shows that Pokémon games are just trying to become bigger than what the games themselves can handle and it's been like that since the start, with how many glitches and everything are in Red/Blue. The only reason for Dexit in my mind that makes sense is just that programming nine hundred Pokémon into a single game, with all their different moves, abilities, and other aspects while still trying to develop a good game, hell, just a game at all, that'd be something massive that would eventually just catch up to them with time, and I think it just got to a point that was too much. I'm not gonna be upset about not being able to bring my favourite Pokémon over, because I'll still own them, and they'll still mean just as much to me. Removing about half the Pokémon from the original games before DLC effectively cut their work for that part of the game in half. Games are already hard to make as it is...

    Hi, guys. According to Dexit, I'm just wanting to know why you think some gens 1-7 Pokémon were excluded from Pokémon Sword and Shield, The Isle of Amor and The Crown Tundra? And do you think that they will return in the next games, whether Diamond and Pearl remakes, Let's Go Johto, Master Collection or gen 9 Pokémon games, besides third-to-final SwSh DLCs not actually going to become released?
    For the reason I talked about above (All these Pokémon simply being too much for the games to handle) I think it's likely that future games in the series will only contain a certain amount of Pokémon just like Sword and Shield. If the limiting of Pokémon was just something they removed after these games, or this generation, it would make it feel like a weird gimmick they discarded after it made fans upset, which would just put them back in the same problem that Dexit prevented. While it's unfortunate, especially when considering remakes, I think it's just the decision they have to make. With how long the series has been going on for, and how successful it's been, I think it's just unfortunately a cliff the series had to inevitably drive off of at some point. ;;

    Personally I hope that at the very least, if Sinnoh remakes end up happening (please) that there's a way that Dex limiting won't feel so... well, limiting. I'm praying.~
     
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    • Seen Dec 4, 2020
    I wasn't all that bothered by the cut either. Shocked when I heard the announcement? Yes, but not angry. What did anger me was how GameFreak handled the situation. I actually waited for the number of pokemon that were going to be cut...and we got nothing but radio silence. I mean, we were GIVEN a reason for the pokedex cut (whether it was a good reason is debatable), but they never told us how many pokemon were going to be cut. THIS information, I end up having to learn about it through a leak. A few weeks away from the game's release too! The leak also revealed that over 100 moves were being cut, as well as other things being removed for the game, or to be resold in a different way (GTS not being included to be put into Pokemon Home).

    That is my reason for being for Dexit. Don't get me wrong, I understand that GameFreak probably went silent after the strong negative reaction to them cutting the pokemon roster, but the amount of information that they held back...Honestly, the reactions might have been worse if it wasn't for the leaks. During Dexit's growing support, I was surprise to learn from a japanese reddit user, on the Pokemon Subreddit, that fans in Japan never receive the news of the Pokemon cut. They were left in the dark, while everyone over hear continued to complained about it. Then, the game released over in Japan...not a pretty reaction from what those Japanese twitter posts showed.

    Anyway, a part of me is hoping that this will be a lesson for GameFreak, and TPC, about how to handle the future pokemon games...but seeing how things are so far...I can't help but have a not-so-good feeling with how with how things are running now.
     
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