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Then he would have had poor tastes then. I enjoyed AG and D/P a lot, even the Frontier battles. No, especially the Frontier battles. Regi Trio, anyone?
Poor tastes?! He was the guy who pretty much wrote the entire anime series up to the end of Johto. Considering it did very well while future series are actually tanking, he definitely has a lot of taste.
So the writers felt that it was a risk to suddenly replace the protagonist in between the transition of each generation. Big deal. So they were poor writers. This is Pokemon. You hardly need to be Shakespeare, as can be seen from the games' story department. Yes, even B/W due to B/W2's existence.
I'm not asking that they do Shakespeare in Pokémon, just that they do decent writing. And BTW, having decent writing is actually how various things actually profit. Last Action Hero is an example of a film that had poor writing, and the results were obvious as it was a box office bomb. Also take a look at the Howard the Duck movie, which was so bad that when Guardians of the Galaxy premiered, people were put off by Howard's cameo at the end of the film and made clear they don't want another Howard the Duck movie.
And getting profits means absolutely nothing in the long run anyways. Disney under Eisner still made profits which by your logic meant they did something right as it wasn't put out of business. Guess what? Because of Eisner's hijynxes and mismanagement, even though Disney was technically making a sustainable profit, it suffered so badly Eisner ended up fired.
Poor tastes?! He was the guy who pretty much wrote the entire anime series up to the end of Johto. Considering it did very well while future series are actually tanking, he definitely has a lot of taste.
Implying that the worst seasons of all time (next to B/W) were a good thing. AG > Indigo > Johto. The guy poured tons of pointless fillers into Johto and you're supporting him? Give me a f-ing break! D/P was the best thing that ever happened to the Pokemon anime! Shinji being a representation of real life Pokemon gamers, Hikari being a non-whiny version of Kasumi, and Satoshi actually using his brains for once, and you think that it sucks? Troll-much?
I'm not asking that they do Shakespeare in Pokémon, just that they do decent writing. And BTW, having decent writing is actually how various things actually profit. Last Action Hero is an example of a film that had poor writing, and the results were obvious as it was a box office bomb. Also take a look at the Howard the Duck movie, which was so bad that when Guardians of the Galaxy premiered, people were put off by Howard's cameo at the end of the film and made clear they don't want another Howard the Duck movie.
And getting profits means absolutely nothing in the long run anyways. Disney under Eisner still made profits which by your logic meant they did something right as it wasn't put out of business. Guess what? Because of Eisner's hijynxes and mismanagement, even though Disney was technically making a sustainable profit, it suffered so badly Eisner ended up fired.
So explain to me why the Pokemon games sell? Right, because of the gameplay, a gimmick to sustain profit. A gimmick, that's all a franchise needs to continue breathing. Just throw people a bone and they'll follow like mindless dogs. People are so stupid.
Implying that the worst seasons of all time (next to B/W) were a good thing. AG > Indigo > Johto. The guy poured tons of pointless fillers into Johto and you're supporting him? Give me a f-ing break! D/P was the best thing that ever happened to the Pokemon anime! Shinji being a representation of real life Pokemon gamers, Hikari being a non-whiny version of Kasumi, and Satoshi actually using his brains for once, and you think that it sucks? Troll-much?
Actually, I didn't see how bad Johto was. At least Ash actually improved during that saga and rose in rank. How was AG even that good, especially when he did absolutely nothing to actually show he got stronger? And BTW, he viewed replacing Misty as a mistake, a huge one at that, and TVTropes at least actually agrees with him somewhat regarding how the new shows were going against his vision and that the franchise is going down the crapper (heck, right now, Ash and Pikachu are under the "Americans Hate Tingle" category, that's how bad the anime is at right now).
And the ratings on both sides of the pond would disagree with you there, AG did WORSE than Johto did, and DP did worse than AG, and don't make me state how BW did even worse than DP.
I watched Dawn, BTW, and she actually turned out to be very much a whiner, and Misty wasn't really a whiner either. I'd know, I watched Princess vs. Princess where I was first exposed to Hinas (the Fiorello Fangirls, which my mom absolutely hated the episode for how it depicted women precisely because of how those fangirls behaved.).
And BTW, Dogasu, who otherwise has little problem with the anime itself, pointed out that the marketing it purely to kids bit was a very bad move.
So explain to me why the Pokemon games sell? Right, because of the gameplay, a gimmick to sustain profit. A gimmick, that's all a franchise needs to continue breathing. Just throw people a bone and they'll follow like mindless dogs. People are so stupid.
Disney did that a lot of that as well, and it suffered for it, to such an extent that Michael Eisner ended up fired after countless cheapquels, releasing a lot of movies under different companies that frankly was not even family-friendly, huge mismanagements, and promoting stuff that frankly shouldn't be promoted at all. Heroes did much the same thing, and look what happened. They made Claire Bennet into a lesbian in what was ultimately the show's final season, and it ended abruptly (since the final episode made clear there was supposed to be a new season afterwards).
And anyways, the games don't need the anime even if it was meant to advertise the games. I know the Mario, Sonic, Zelda, and Mega Man franchises long outlasted the DiC-created (and Anime based, in the case of Sonic and its short-lived anime series, and I'm not talking about Sonic X, though it still applies) shows and in the case of Mario, Sonic and Zelda are still making new games.
Actually, I didn't see how bad Johto was. At least Ash actually improved during that saga and rose in rank. How was AG even that good, especially when he did absolutely nothing to actually show he got stronger? And BTW, he viewed replacing Misty as a mistake, a huge one at that, and TVTropes at least actually agrees with him somewhat regarding how the new shows were going against his vision and that the franchise is going down the crapper (heck, right now, Ash and Pikachu are under the "Americans Hate Tingle" category, that's how bad the anime is at right now).
And the ratings on both sides of the pond would disagree with you there, AG did WORSE than Johto did, and DP did worse than AG, and don't make me state how BW did even worse than DP.
I watched Dawn, BTW, and she actually turned out to be very much a whiner, and Misty wasn't really a whiner either. I'd know, I watched Princess vs. Princess where I was first exposed to Hinas (the Fiorello Fangirls, which my mom absolutely hated the episode for how it depicted women precisely because of how those fangirls behaved.).
And BTW, Dogasu, who otherwise has little problem with the anime itself, pointed out that the marketing it purely to kids bit was a very bad move.
Hah, well that's rich, an OS supporter for once. I kinda like that, yet fail to see the logic at the same time.
Satoshi did nothing? Satoshi did a hell lot more than he did during Johto's filler-seasons. It was battle after gym battle after frontier battle. It was cram-packed with action and character development on Haruka's part, much more than that stupid Togepi-wielding Kasumi deadweight. Seriously, her attractiveness as a woman was practically sucked up by Togepi ever since she became a motherly character. Mothers are not attractive. Single girls with short skirts (Hikari) and strong personalities (Haruka) are.
D/P is worse than AG in ratings, so what? That's a stupid response from the audience, as the writing was obviously raised by several bars with its story-centric script. Just go read the wiki article for D/P - "D/P is the first season to focus mostly on story," non-verbatim. The characters are far better as well, since Masato is non-existent (everybody hates Max), Misty is non-existent (many people hates Misty, that you've gotta agree), and Hikari is the first true female character that's lack of any tomboyishness, making for an appealing female character (because making everybody tsunderes and tomboys was such a good idea in anime).
Disney did that a lot of that as well, and it suffered for it, to such an extent that Michael Eisner ended up fired after countless cheapquels, releasing a lot of movies under different companies that frankly was not even family-friendly, huge mismanagements, and promoting stuff that frankly shouldn't be promoted at all. Heroes did much the same thing, and look what happened. They made Claire Bennet into a lesbian in what was ultimately the show's final season, and it ended abruptly (since the final episode made clear there was supposed to be a new season afterwards).
So Disney returning to family-friendly isn't on the same note as Pokemon keeping it family-friendly? I'm not on the same page as you. And how is Heroes changing a different formula the same as Pokemon repeating the same formula?
lol Meant to advertise the games. You kid. Likewise, I could say that the anime doesn't need the games to profit, since the liberties taken might as well make it a separate franchise altogether.
Hah, well that's rich, an OS supporter for once. I kinda like that, yet fail to see the logic at the same time.
Satoshi did nothing? Satoshi did a hell lot more than he did during Johto's filler-seasons. It was battle after gym battle after frontier battle. It was cram-packed with action and character development on Haruka's part, much more than that stupid Togepi-wielding Kasumi deadweight. Seriously, her attractiveness as a woman was practically sucked up by Togepi ever since she became a motherly character. Mothers are not attractive. Single girls with short skirts (Hikari) and strong personalities (Haruka) are.
If he did more, please explain why he didn't get Top 4 in the Hoenn league? Battle Frontier was pretty much the only time that Ash actually seemed to be doing fairly well and actually proving himself to be skilled and strong. Oh, and BTW, the Hoenn gym leaders were total pansies except for possibly Brawley, especially when they lost against a rookie team save for possibly Pikachu. They were about as bad as Team Rocket during Ash Catches a Pokémon. Remember how they lost pathetically to a caterpie that they really shouldn't have lost to? And mothers are certainly a lot more attractive than Hina-types, and the latter two qualify as such. And Misty, even in Johto, actually showed strength, helping out a Marrill, doing the Whirl Cup, doing quite a few things that actually solved the events of that episode, and the like. When did May actually show herself to be very strong (and BTW, you yourself stated Pokémon Contests were stupid in another topic, meaning that wasn't a show of strength there)? Heck, in her movie, she abandoned Manaphy to Phantom late into the movie, even though she had at least two Pokémon on hand (a squirtle and a beautifly) who most certainly could retrieve it, meaning she effectively acted as a coward regarding what was effectively her own child. I hated that ending because she basically abandoned her own child out of fear when it needed her most. And she also cried when she lost in the second Grand Festival, despite actually doing better than it, and she proved she wasn't even a good friend to Ash by basically saying goodbye without even giving any indication that she was conflicted with having to leave Ash.
D/P is worse than AG in ratings, so what? That's a stupid response from the audience, as the writing was obviously raised by several bars with its story-centric script. Just go read the wiki article for D/P - "D/P is the first season to focus mostly on story," non-verbatim. The characters are far better as well, since Masato is non-existent (everybody hates Max), Misty is non-existent (many people hates Misty, that you've gotta agree), and Hikari is the first true female character that's lack of any tomboyishness, making for an appealing female character (because making everybody tsunderes and tomboys was such a good idea in anime).
Actually, Misty was one of, if not the most popular female character in the franchise. Popular enough that she has a Wikipedia article dedicated to her while the others don't. She also was mentioned to have a profound impact for the audience at large, and she was actually rated among the top 100 females in the Zetta's anime character lists. She was not hated by many people at all. Actually, May and Dawn were actually hated more. I will agree with you on Max though.
Oh, and BTW, the original series was story-centric. For starters, we got backstories for various characters, and we actually have Ash actually increasing in rank by Johto. AG basically was a non-event largely because he didn't even increase in rank at all. It didn't take until DP for Ash to actually increase in rank again. And while I do tolerate Dawn a bit more than May, she still is a Hina (characters with similar personalities from Love Hina, Battle Vixens, and the Pokémon Episode Princess vs. Princess). The only girls I have some reasonable tolerance over are Bonnie, Serena, and Iris due to their status of whether or not they were Hinas being indeterminate. Even then, Serena is even worse as she doesn't even have a goal at all. At least Max had his age as an excuse.
So Disney returning to family-friendly isn't on the same note as Pokemon keeping it family-friendly? I'm not on the same page as you. And how is Heroes changing a different formula the same as Pokemon repeating the same formula?
Actually, they changed the formula in Johto when they replaced Misty, which actually did result in a tanking of the ratings. That caused a decline. And they actually increased the fanservice for May and Dawn, even shamelessly admitting that they were only using the girls for fanservice and eyecandy as if that's all they were. And this was stated by the former director from the original series up to the end of AG on Pokebeach, so don't even attempt to deny it, and it becomes family unfriendly when sexual fanservice is involved, no ifs ands or buts.
Also, Disney, outside of the main films and possibly the sequels hasn't returned to actually being family friendly (Modern Family basically is promoting gay marriage, for example, and that's not getting into GCB).
lol Meant to advertise the games. You kid. Likewise, I could say that the anime doesn't need the games to profit, since the liberties taken might as well make it a separate franchise altogether.
Maybe, but the problem is they clearly intended for the anime to actually advertise the games since AG, something production materials make very clear. And so did the other DiC shows.
If he did more, please explain why he didn't get Top 4 in the Hoenn league? Battle Frontier was pretty much the only time that Ash actually seemed to be doing fairly well and actually proving himself to be skilled and strong. Oh, and BTW, the Hoenn gym leaders were total pansies except for possibly Brawley, especially when they lost against a rookie team save for possibly Pikachu. They were about as bad as Team Rocket during Ash Catches a Pokémon. Remember how they lost pathetically to a caterpie that they really shouldn't have lost to? And mothers are certainly a lot more attractive than Hina-types, and the latter two qualify as such. And Misty, even in Johto, actually showed strength, helping out a Marrill, doing the Whirl Cup, doing quite a few things that actually solved the events of that episode, and the like. When did May actually show herself to be very strong (and BTW, you yourself stated Pokémon Contests were stupid in another topic, meaning that wasn't a show of strength there)? Heck, in her movie, she abandoned Manaphy to Phantom late into the movie, even though she had at least two Pokémon on hand (a squirtle and a beautifly) who most certainly could retrieve it, meaning she effectively acted as a coward regarding what was effectively her own child. I hated that ending because she basically abandoned her own child out of fear when it needed her most. And she also cried when she lost in the second Grand Festival, despite actually doing better than it, and she proved she wasn't even a good friend to Ash by basically saying goodbye without even giving any indication that she was conflicted with having to leave Ash.
Kasumi's achievements were among the worse achievements compared to Haruka (who actually win battles legitimately, not use a cheap cop-out like Togepi) and Hikari (who's better at what she does than Kasumi, even if I'm biased against contests). The Whirl Cup? More like the nobody gives a damn cup, since really, nobody gives a damn. It doesn't even exist in the games. The contests, on the other hand, not only do they exist in the games, but were much harder to win in the anime. Seriously, the anime's logic and the realistic appealing methods made the contests twice as hard to win, since the games were bogged down by game/RPG logic that made winning easy if you know the trick (even without cheating).
Also, what about her irrational fear of bugs? At least crying when you suffer two major losses is relatable (Hikari). Don't get me started at how annoying her temperament is. She won't get married if she's in real life. Probably live in a house full of Fuglies upon reaching old age.
Actually, Misty was the most popular female character in the franchise. Popular enough that she has a Wikipedia article dedicated to her while the others don't. She also was mentioned to have a profound impact for the audience at large, and she was actually rated among the top 100 females in the Zetta's anime character lists. She was not hated by many people at all. Actually, May and Dawn were actually hated more.
And when was that, exactly? Ten years ago? Five years ago? Even if she did win at some random popularity contest, it's undeniable that Kasumi's a thing of the past, and future characters are here to stay. For a long time too, if Serena is a success. Also, popularity means s*** when her personality sucks. Justin Bieber is popular too.
Actually, they changed the formula in Johto when they replaced Misty, which actually did result in a tanking of the ratings. That caused a decline. And they actually increased the fanservice for May and Dawn, even shamelessly admitting that they were only using the girls for fanservice and eyecandy as if that's all they were. And this was stated by the former director from the original series up to the end of AG on Pokebeach, so don't even attempt to deny it, and it becomes family unfriendly when sexual fanservice is involved, no ifs ands or buts.
That may be true, BUT the end products speak for themselves, and they were clearly much more decently-written than hot-headed Kasumi. Haruka and Hikari are the ideal women in the Japanese's eyes. Virginal, subservient, gentle. And a little panty-shot every now and then wouldn't hurt.
Also, Disney, outside of the main films and possibly the sequels hasn't returned to actually being family friendly (Modern Family basically is promoting gay marriage, for example, and that's not getting into GCB).
Maybe, but the problem is they clearly intended for the anime to actually advertise the games since AG, something production materials make very clear. And so did the other DiC shows.
Also, long-ass debates aside, I caught mentioning of not treating the anime as separate shows, but as one gigantic show... Yeah, that's a foolish thought, considering that with every Japanese season (OS and AG as two separate seasons rather than eight seasons) was a revamp to introduce Pokemon to the new generation. Hell, it was even stated in the season two title, "Advanced GENERATION." Naturally, Satoshi is going to make the same ol' mistakes again, and also bringing up his Pokedex upon Pokemon that he had previously seen in previous seasons. It's a gimmick, live with it. Otherwise, don't watch it and shut up. Please, for the sake of everyone.
I get the feeling this was directed to me. Obviously each new saga Ash travels through carries different title. And thanks to poor lazy writing every new journey is formed from scratch rehashing plots, depowering Pikachu and having Ash skills be regressed. But thing of the matter is that its still anime which is set in same timeline and universe. It follows journey of permanent main protagonist called Ash and JJM trio which chase him across the world(like One Piece follows Luffy, Naruto carrier of show name, Dragon Ball Goku, SAO Kirito etc journeys set in same continuity. It doesn't change fact how occasionally there exists flashbacks and references to past like return of Charizard in Best Wishes, reappearance of Gary in Sinnoh, replaced girls coming in next saga for few episodes etc.
Showing how pokemon is still treated as one anime. Because reboot, complete change of cast and removing every tie to past regions, characters and plots didn't happened.
However are writers making this anime live up to status of being considered some big long on going story, series which are placed in one continuity?
Hardly with so called close bonds and meaningful friendsgips formed between Ash and his companions being erased like they never existed or mattered losing every contact or keeping their legacy alive. Due to once writers replace Ash traveling friend and give him one cameo after departure he/she forever falls down in oblivion, With unfinished job started on its story, pokemon team, insecurities and issues introduced with being left forever linger in air.
Depriving people from chance to see companions they grew to like and feel sorry for taken in new directions just like Ash is doing follow up on their stories, careers and affinities having already history, established friendships and experience with already somewhat developed personality to go on deeper, more challenging development. With fruits of their labour and hard work leading them somewhere eventually.
Whether we are talking about May, Misty, Brock, Dawn, Max, Cilan etc. Receiving introduction and tangle to their story and personality development but culmination and resolution never happening. Leaving their introduced goals, interests, personality flaws, concerns and doubts irerelevant, as well inclusion in this anime in first place. If in so called entity based story they after being dumped never return again.
We constantly witness Ash character stuck in repetitious limb of never making concrete development on his career of becoming pokemon master or his character evolution. New challenges not being revealed, his effort, pain and learning on mistakes formed in one saga not meaning much if its going to be dropped in another. With any impact other protagonists, events and pokemon left on him being forgotten about.
Which is shame because Ash as characer has so much potential to go on deeper, more profined development. With win of one league being only one step on road of becoming master as E4 Lucian in DP series confirmed. Showing there exists new tournaments, new examinators and tasks to accomplish in earning master title(possible master league for every champion of region or special quests like Battle Frontier was). Expand on Ash family and his father, connection to legendary bird Ho-oh which only shows up to choosen trainers being determined for something big etc.
Keeping storyline consistent and smooth with previous knowledge, skills and vectors which pushed protagonists and story to certain point not being discarded. But instead keeping connections to past and anime history adding to story credibility.
I don't dislike pokemon anime. I dont dislike Ash or characters. I understand why are directors and writers in charge of this show pulling out such strategy.
But at same time woukd i be honest in saying how writers of this anime are doing "perfect job" with no flaws in this anime?
Far from it simply wanting to see pokemon anime i grew up with and still like to be better written. Have more continuity, dont forget about its roots and previous characters acknowledging their existence in this continuum going in new fresh adventures. While at same time Ash journey feeling more rewarding maturing and growing as character(not necessarily by aging but going on bigger better things as person and trainer). Coming closer toward his ultimate aims.
Nothing more, nothing less. Simply offering constructive criticism of what i consider to be poorly written and not most productive way in keeping viewers loyal toward some show.
Satoshi did nothing? Satoshi did a hell lot more than he did during Johto's filler-seasons. It was battle after gym battle after frontier battle. It was cram-packed with action and character development on Haruka's part, much more than that stupid Togepi-wielding Kasumi deadweight. Seriously, her attractiveness as a woman was practically sucked up by Togepi ever since she became a motherly character. Mothers are not attractive. Single girls with short skirts (Hikari) and strong personalities (Haruka) are.
Actually majority of Johto werent fillers. Out of 158 episodes for what Johto was long only about 65 were fillers where absolutely nothing important happened. Everything else was plot related where it contained character development for Ash,Misty or Brock, focused on their goals, involved new pokemon capture or evolution,involved TR organization,had appearance from recurring characters (like Gary,Casey,Sakura,Duplica or prof.Oak) etc.
With third season(Johto Journeys) before GS ball got dropped and especially 5th season(Master Quest) once Ecruteak gym battle was passed being anything but "filler fest", feartured with heavy plot centric arcs, development and sensew of direction which pushed journey and its character forward.
People who didn't bothered to watch whole Johto but only select few filers somehow developed unfortunately prejudices and misconception of whole Johto being just one big bag full of "fillers". Many episodes people haphazardly mark as fillers for example had Misty, Brock, Ash etc play interesting role to them, and by labeling them as fillers they miss out on several things getting out wrong picture how main cast never did anything there.
As for so called "Togepi Wielder" Misty battled alot more in Johto than Kanto/Orange combined, she had whole arc and mini journey dedicated to her in form of Whirl Islands, she had more character development and episodes focusing on herself. We get to see her play role in various subplots helping Ash fight TR, other villains, try to resolve mysteries like who is Gligarman, mystery of arachnid thief, pleading hwrself to dr. Foster assistant making Brock grab Misty ear(this didnt hapopened very often, it was episode "Fossil Fools" or "Corsola Caper" for example). When Misty went too far in fangirly mode or with her passio toward water pokemon, being hilarious to see Brock for change grabbing her by ear telling her to chill down lol.
Along with Misty well interacting with wide amout of characters producing with her vivod character lot of humor, spirit, tension, clash, touching moments in main cast.
Misty is non-existent (many people hates Misty, that you've gotta agree), and Hikari is the first true female character that's lack of any tomboyishness, making for an appealing female character (because making everybody tsunderes and tomboys was such a good idea in anime).
Many people hate Dawn, May, Brock, Ash etc. too. No character in this show is immune to dislike, demeaning and attempts to bellitle its worth.
However Vocal minority=/=represent public opinion on characters appeal, role and impact they left on show.
In fact Misty is among most popular female protagonists of pokemon(if not the most) among western audience(America, Europe, Australia etc). As evidenced with so many fans wanting her back in pokemon series with Misty departure causing huge backlash among fandom(bigger than any other character departure caused). Im sure you noticed on internet all those petitions and campaigns of returning Misty back to anime, so many people on facebook, twitter, deviantart, youtube etc saying how pokemon anime jumped the shark once Misty left. Losing on lot of identity, mystery and energy her character brought.
Kasumi's achievements were among the worse achievements compared to Haruka (who actually win battles legitimately, not use a cheap cop-out like Togepi) and Hikari (who's better at what she does than Kasumi, even if I'm biased against contests). The Whirl Cup? More like the nobody gives a damn cup, since really, nobody gives a damn. It doesn't even exist in the games. The contests, on the other hand, not only do they exist in the games, but were much harder to win in the anime. Seriously, the anime's logic and the realistic appealing methods made the contests twice as hard to win, since the games were bogged down by game/RPG logic that made winning easy if you know the trick (even without cheating).
You dont need to be someone fanboy though to acknowledge character merits, entertainment value and importance to grpoup dynamic, other protagonists like Ash and structite of plot.
Speaking of Misty achievements something not coming from games doesn't devalue its importance and influence left on show storyline.
With Misty adamant passion for water pokemon, desire to one day live up in skills and prestigueness to her idol E4 member Lorelei. Lot of dedication, effort and energy out in learning as much as she can about specie she adores becoming master in that field.
With her water master career having myriad of directions under which writers could illustrate her character development adding for more diverse and exciting storyline. In foirm of elemental or regular tournaments having to find defense vs types which have advantage, become E4 member or their apprentice since theyre highest aurhority and most skilled mono trainers, be involved wiuth crisis centered around legendary pokemon trying to prevent destruction and establish bond with it learning to read its feelings(which is expected from type masters).
Etc, etc.
Containing more potential, unpredictability and certain charm to it.
Due to not having in advance set up direction and formula imposed on it like game quests with its structure, background and direction to take things forward. Not having much liberty and room for changes so that writers culd deliver more unpredictable and versatile growth of someone journey and dreams.
Being one of things Misty character was liked, acknowledged for despite not getting as much expansion like coordinators did due to various turbulences gpoing among pokemon staff at that time not deciding in what direction to take show at that time.
Ok maybe her achievements didn't meant anything to you, i understand that. But thing is various people perceive things differently and form different criteria on what can be considered interesting and eventful, and what cannot.
With less often being more not needing quantity, but quality when there are such moments for character they like to appreciate its presence and importance left on show in general.
Its typical matter of taste, nothing else really.
That may be true, BUT the end products speak for themselves, and they were clearly much more decently-written than hot-headed Kasumi. Haruka and Hikari are the ideal women in the Japanese's eyes. Virginal, subservient, gentle. And a little panty-shot every now and then wouldn't hurt.
This is well highly debatable and matter of opinion. Tsundere chnaracters are heavily liked and popular among Japanese audience, being among most used character tropes in various anime and manga out there. Especially more refined ones which go beyond typical stereotypical personality traits like Misty .
Representing strong image of female which can be feminine, gentle and loyal, but also strongwilled, tough and competitive, have courage to stand up for herself, know how to battle, act under pressure resolving tough situations and be succesful.
In fact her mother, girly tendencies which contrasted more hotheaded nature were one of key elements contributing to popularity coming of as deep and highgly relatable character(especially among western viewers).
Down below ill post article from critics(professonal writers and various experts who offered their view and conducted research on impact and appeal Misty had among students, kids and teenagers) Describing her as someone unusually deep and three-dimensional in characterization for children anime.
Scoring her run of 5 years in pokemon anime positively.
With Misty not bering classified as "garbage" but appealing character which brought identity, stamina and emotion into cast contributing a lot in pokemon becoming popular and globally recognized in first place along with Ash and Brock influencing series plot and development more than she is given credit for. Measuring quality of character not by quantity, but quality and overall influence he leaves on characters and plot and how important his deeds and merits on grand scale of things were when he did something.
Spoiler:
Critical reception
The book The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture described Misty's portrayal in the anime as a mother figure, calling her a "nurturing component" for the original trio of herself, Ash and Brock.[5] It further described her as an "unusually 'complete' girl of the cartoon world", noting both her feminine sentimentality and her "explosive rage".[6] Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces praised the character as being "particularly nuanced" and described her as contributing heavily to the series' appeal.[7] Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon stated that the anime focused on Ash, Misty was a distinctly significant character especially to young female consumers, neither "butch" nor "dizzily feminine", seemingly "carefully constructed to appeal to preadolescent girls".[8] It added that unlike other aggressive female characters in the series, Misty did not sacrifice her femininity to succeed, making the character further popular with young American women, a contrast to Japanese children who focused more on the individual Pokémon species to identify with.[9]
In studies on the reactions boys and girls had to the concept of Misty as a heroine in the series, girls accepted it and were eager to associate themselves with the character,[10][11] while boys attempted to belittle her efforts.[10] On the other hand, children of both genders felt the character alongside Brock gave Ash a sense of identity and moral support, which researchers attributed to the concept of group identity.[12] In another study, children were shown to associate the attributes of attractiveness and aggressiveness, while college students described the character as romantic.[13] Pikachu's Global Adventure additionally stated Misty also served as a source of non-threatening sexuality for both older and younger male viewers, though the context of such was presented in a more subtle for North American localizations of the series.[14]
[edit] Notes and references
5. ^ West, Mark I. (2008). The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 58. ISBN 0810851210.
6. ^ West, Mark I. (2008). The Japanification of Children's Popular Culture. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 78. ISBN 0810851210.
7. ^ Camp, Brian; Julie Davis (May 2007). Anime Classics Zettai!: 100 Must-See Japanese Animation Masterpieces. Stone Bridge Press. p. 283. ISBN 9781933330228.
8. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. p. 21. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
9. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 231-232, 282. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
10. ^ a b Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. p. 176. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
11. ^ Katch, Jane (2004). They Don't Like Me: Lessons on Bullying and Teasing from a Preschool Classroom. Beacon Press. ISBN 0807023213.
12. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 169-170, 177. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
13. ^ Ogletree, Shirley M.; Cristal N. Martinez, Trent R. Turner and Brad Mason (2004). "Pokémon: Exploring the Role of Gender". Sex Roles (Springer Netherlands) 50, Numbers 11-12 / June, 2004: 851-859. doi:10.1023/B:SERS.0000029102.66384.a2. ISSN (Print) 1573-2762 (Online) 0360-0025 (Print) 1573-2762 (Online).
14. ^ Tobin, Joseph Jay (2004). Pikachu's Global Adventure: The Rise and Fall of Pokémon. Duke University Press. pp. 284. ISBN 0-822-33287-6.
^Agreed, DBZ Fan, on all your points. You put it far better than I ever could. Especially the bit about Misty doing far more in Johto than she did in Orange Island and even Kanto, certainly far more than just holding Togepi (and I'd know from actually WATCHING Johto episodes during that CN marathon leading up to DP, I even stayed up late at night and got up early just to watch all of them, only missing most of Don't Touch that 'Dile because I was stuck trying to find summer reading books at an especially busy day at Barnes and Noble). And the majority of Johto, contrary to the anti-Johto line, wasn't "Fillers." Heck, unlike AG, Ash actually improved in Johto (He was Top 16 in Kanto, then Top 8 in Johto. That sounds like the textbook definition of "Improvement" to me. And unlike in Kanto, Ash didn't lose because of the dumb luck of having a disobedient Pokémon act out during the match, or being forced to be tardied for the match by Team Rocket in a dirty attempt to get Pikachu, which also cost him two more-abled Pokémon.).
And besides, AG was hugely overrated anyways. Even IF Ash did more there than in Johto (which I highly doubt. Heck, at times May got more focus than Ash did with her goal. Famon can attest to that, as he even pointed out that was part of the reason why the ratings decreased even more in AG.), the fact that he doesn't advance AT ALL in the league meant it was a meaningless, skippable region, heck, even season that was not any different than filler regions in the long run even if it did technically have important stuff such as captures. You could skip AG as a whole and instead go right to DP from Johto, and probably the only things you might be wondering is why Ash all of a sudden has an Aipom now and why Pikachu has Volt Tackle. Even then, the audience would have reasonably assumed Ash just caught it off-screen and that Pikachu learned it off-screen. After all, we never actually saw James catch his Weepinbell, either, yet he did and left it unknowingly at Butch and Cassidy's scam spa when it was introduced (In fact, we don't even get a hint at when he captured it until the episode it was removed, where James used Koffing to capture it). It may have been better than BW's outcome since he at least didn't decrease in rank, but it was still one of the worst outcomes, and besides, in one respect, BW's outcome, no matter how tasteless and bad, was also better in the sense that it at least actually measured Ash's progress, even if in the opposite direction, as it actually does give an indication that it happened.
Not to mention technically Misty's, heck, Iris's goals ARE in the games. All you need to do is start out with a Water Type (for Water Pokémon Master), make sure you have an all-Water Type team (or all-Dragon Team), then fight the leagues and champion. Voila, you're a Water Pokémon Master or a Dragon Pokémon Master. If anything May and Dawn's goals of being a Pokémon Coordinator aren't even in the games at all. Pokémon Contests in the games were just a side entry you could do, and if you win them all, great, you've got a trophy for your secret hideout for bragging rights, you don't get to the credits at all, nor is there an actual ending. There isn't even a Coordinator league or whatever it is called in the games.
Oh, and BTW, I know two Japanese women (and by that, I don't merely mean a woman who was born in America who simply has Japanese heritage. I mean two women actually FROM Japan or who spent a lot of time in Japan and hailed from there) who definitely hated the stereotype of women Japan was pushing out with May, Dawn, the girls from Love Hina and Battle Vixens, etc., and one of them even signed my petition to bring Misty back.
And when was that, exactly? Ten years ago? Five years ago? Even if she did win at some random popularity contest, it's undeniable that Kasumi's a thing of the past, and future characters are here to stay. For a long time too, if Serena is a success. Also, popularity means s*** when her personality sucks. Justin Bieber is popular too.
Misty's personality doesn't stink, actually. In fact, her personality is PRECISELY the reason why Misty was popular, at least with the Western Market, even the Japanese market as well. There are a lot of studies making this very clear. DBZ Fan even posted some sources backing this up as well.
That may be true, BUT the end products speak for themselves, and they were clearly much more decently-written than hot-headed Kasumi. Haruka and Hikari are the ideal women in the Japanese's eyes. Virginal, subservient, gentle. And a little panty-shot every now and then wouldn't hurt.
Misty was Virginal (Come on, she's ten, maybe 12 at the oldest if we go by Ono's adaptation, There's literally no way she could NOT be a virgin since she's underage), actually. And Misty was also fairly gentile and compassionate as well (Her attempting to help Pikachu, apology and befriending of that Oddish, not to mention her compassion for that Mikey kid, heck, helping the magician in the Exeggutor episode makes this very clear, and she also stuck up for that Prep school student and, after beating him after he snottily commented that Water Types were weak against Grass Types, actually acted in his defense when that snotty lady basically humiliated him, granted she did get beaten, but she still stuck up for him. Also helping that Marrill in one of the Johto episodes.). Heck, at times she also was submissive when it actually was needed (like for example, The Misty Mermaid, where she submitted reluctantly to her sisters' request that she participate in that Mermaid show). Oh, and unlike May and possibly Dawn, Misty has little problem actually risking her life to solve some problems (heck, she did exactly that when the Tentacool and Tentacruel attacked Porta Vista, and that's no feat when the Tentacruel are smashing buildings, meaning she was while climbing very much in danger of being killed.).
And BTW, May's fanservice was not merely a "panty shot", I definitely remember them being a lot more crass with their fanservice of her, like having Brock and Max staring at her butt in a very obvious manner, or how May stripped into a bikini in public (and considering Max's reaction when she did so, its pretty clear that May wasn't actually wearing a bikini underneath and just put one offscreen, meaning she effectively was the first female to get naked in public, albeit offscreen and briefly). And having sexual fanservice on what are 10 year old girls is actually very disgusting as the implications of that are that they are peddling child pornography (which, BTW, even in Japan, that's highly illegal). It's bad enough that Maron and the Love Hina girls are subjected to it, but at least they weren't kids (for the most part anyways, Motoko unfortunately was one).
Also, what about her irrational fear of bugs? At least crying when you suffer two major losses is relatable (Hikari). Don't get me started at how annoying her temperament is. She won't get married if she's in real life. Probably live in a house full of Fuglies upon reaching old age.
Dawn at least lost in instances that were her first time for her so that's forgivable, though Misty didn't cry over her losses at all (I think the closest she came to crying regarding losing a match was regarding Togepi). And let me point out that May crying during the Kanto Conference was definitely bad, since she actually did better. Did Ash cry when he lost in Johto? No, not at all, and he had the exact same circumstances May had, especially improving in rank and it being his second actual league (Orange Cup is debatable). Crying from losing a match is forgivable when it's the first time. Heck, it's forgivable in times other than the first time when you lost and did even worse than before. When it's the second time, and it wasn't because you did worse, you honestly shouldn't cry at all, regardless of gender.
And Misty may have a temper, but hey, at least that also means she won't be taken advantage of. I've heard of a lot of women who lack a temper and who do in fact let themselves be taken advantage of foolishly. I can even name one: Maron from DBZ (and I mean Krillin's first girlfriend). Besides, she also demonstrated kind, sweet-natured aspects to her character in other instances as well, as well as a lot of loyalty, and those are traits I admire in a woman.
I haven't watched B/W yet, so I'd just assume you're right (considering that I've heard similar rumors). And yet again, this has nothing to do with the games, aside from butthurt gamers *****ing about. This anime is a business meant to target at naive children who don't give a damn about such nerdy subjects. If it's not your taste, then **** off.
As long as anyone buy or collect Pokemon Merchandise , Card , figure & Game , They are target audience.
Pokemon is not your Educational Anime that teach ''Lying is Bad'' , ''How to make a Nest'' , ''How to treat a Bubu'' Its an anime only meant to Advertise & Sales Merchandise . Like Digimon , Yokai Watch , Beyblade.
Bandai chart show How Pokemon fallen from 2nd Place to 8th place.
Also . According to Serebii source , The Anime Merchandise are having hard time now . I guess Writer doing an Amazing Job to accomplish that.
Ever Watch Digimon Cross War , It increase Toy sales which is the good thing.
However , Digimon Cross War is way more serious then Pokemon.
Its in the same level as PokeSpe manga .
So Saying Writers are competent despite their idiosy is simple saying ''Kids Anime are so easy , You just need a cute Animal and the whole series will super popular while making you rich.''
Truth is , Pokemon Anime Writer are Oversmart ! They overthink everything rather then keeping it simple . Which is why most good idea were ruined . For example , Serena would be popular if she was like your typical childhood friend who always argue with the Protagonist while keeping a secret crush.
But god know why , Writer decide to make Serena a ''Mature Shoujo Anime Herion'' instate of a ''Kids Anime heroin''.
No wonder She's so blend .
Misty didn't had a stable goal for over 100 episode But she was still more popular and interesting because she was based on a ''Kids Anime Heroin''. Who put a ''Shoujo Anime Heroin'' in a ''Kids Shouene Anime'' .
FYI : Anime like Pokemon , Digimon , Bakugun , Beyblade are call ''Kids Shouene Anime'' .
As long as anyone buy or collect Pokemon Merchandise , Card , figure & Game , They are target audience.
Pokemon is not your Educational Anime that teach ''Lying is Bad'' , ''How to make a Nest'' , ''How to treat a Bubu'' Its an anime only meant to Advertise & Sales Merchandise . Like Digimon , Yokai Watch , Beyblade.
Bandai chart show How Pokemon fallen from 2nd Place to 8th place.
Also . According to Serebii source , The Anime Merchandise are having hard time now . I guess Writer doing an Amazing Job to accomplish that.
Ever Watch Digimon Cross War , It increase Toy sales which is the good thing.
However , Digimon Cross War is way more serious then Pokemon.
Its in the same level as PokeSpe manga .
So Saying Writers are competent despite their idiosy is simple saying ''Kids Anime are so easy , You just need a cute Animal and the whole series will super popular while making you rich.''
Truth is , Pokemon Anime Writer are Oversmart ! They overthink everything rather then keeping it simple . Which is why most good idea were ruined . For example , Serena would be popular if she was like your typical childhood friend who always argue with the Protagonist while keeping a secret crush.
But god know why , Writer decide to make Serena a ''Mature Shoujo Anime Herion'' instate of a ''Kids Anime heroin''.
No wonder She's so blend .
Misty didn't had a stable goal for over 100 episode But she was still more popular and interesting because she was based on a ''Kids Anime Heroin''. Who put a ''Shoujo Anime Heroin'' in a ''Kids Shouene Anime'' .
FYI : Anime like Pokemon , Digimon , Bakugun , Beyblade are call ''Kids Shouene Anime'' .
I'll just say this. Misty is a beach. She gave Ash a hard time, she gave Brock a hard time. And she is especially frosty to Team Rocket (even more so than anyone else). I hope she never ever comes back. Serena seems to be an improvement over any female lead who has ever traveled with Ash. And I hope Serena remains as nice as she is, and does not take notes from Mirror Serena. Afterall, Max got worse after the first season of AG. Look the the opening of Advance Challenge, and Brock's ear. All Serena needs is a few more Pokemon. I don't care if she doesn't get to do anything, just as long as doesn't turn into Misty or Sakura Haruno.
I'll just say this. Misty is a beach. She gave Ash a hard time, she gave Brock a hard time. And she is especially frosty to Team Rocket (even more so than anyone else). I hope she never ever comes back. Serena seems to be an improvement over any female lead who has ever traveled with Ash. And I hope Serena remains as nice as she is, and does not take notes from Mirror Serena. Afterall, Max got worse after the first season of AG. Look the the opening of Advance Challenge, and Brock's ear. All Serena needs is a few more Pokemon. I don't care if she doesn't get to do anything, just as long as doesn't turn into Misty or Sakura Haruno.
As I've never watched XY, and thus never actually saw her character to determine whether she's a Hina (unlike May or Dawn), I have no comment for or against Serena (I might be slightly miffed that she was treated as Ash's first female friend, but not too much I can say for or against her regarding character, though I do wish she actually has a goal so she actually has a point being on the cast.). I will mention that Misty did have good elements (such as helping out Mikey in the Eevee episode and that magician in the Exeggcute episode), and she did support Ash in his journey (heck, if it weren't for her, Ash and co. at the very least wouldn't have been able to advance to the league, and at worst would have been dead, heck, she effectively saved the world when she saved Ash after Lawrence III nearly killed him in his selfish desire for Lugia, so give her some credit), and at least Misty wasn't a Hina (you know, characterizations of girls like the ones from Love Hina and/or Battle Vixens, Maron [Krillin's old flame] from Dragon Ball Z, the Fiorello Fangirls from Princess vs. Princess, which BTW is how I learned Misty isn't a Hina, not to mention how I first learned of Hinas.).
Aha! See?! I told you people hate Misty. Seriously, just Google that b****. You'll see thousands of search results of "Misty SUCKS" everywhere, from misogynistic names to fairly-driven criticisms of her blend personality in Johto episodes.
Seriously, you OS/Johto fans are worse than Genwunners. In fact, you ARE Genwunners.
"First of all she's very bland and boring. Second of all, I'm NOT trying to ****-shame, but she literally dresses like a prostitute.
Another thing that still bothers me to this day, is that in the Japanese version, she originally slapped ash, because, he said thank you, after he thought she was asking him if he was okay.
pokemon scene
Ash makes a mistake
Misty bruises his face on purpose
Fans forever worship misty, and think she's absolutely charming
You see? And now most people brush aside all the bad things misty does, but then nit picks at dawn, may, and iris.
She's mainly worshipped because
the male fans think "OMG SHE'S SO HAWT SHE CAN DO WHATEVER SHE WANTS"
HAWT = NICE
Female fans: "OMG THE SLAPPING AND WHINY TEMPER MAKES HER MORE INTERESTING!"
"OMG ASH AND MISTY 4EVER ALL THE OTHER GIRLS ARE JEAULOUS BAKA WH*RES!!11!1!!"
Plus most people (especially gen 1 fanboys) only like misty because she's the original BECAUSE CHANGE IS APPARANTLY BAD AND EVIL"
"There are many reasons that someone would hate Misty, most always loop back to "genwunners" insistence that everything was better in the first generation.
In the Kanto arc she was just your typical short tempered character, nothing all that special. Her goal wasn't something she ever explored or even an interesting one, just be the best Water type trainer. She worked at the time but as the back then we had no one to compare her to.
Then comes Togepi. It hatches and slowly Misty's short temper starts to die, only ever being used to cock block Brock. Without the temper Misty had nothing to her character, Johto Misty was such a useless and boring character that it was a relief when she finally left.
So far that's not enough to hate her. Consider her overrated sure but nothing hate worthy. No the hate comes from her fans constantly insisting she needs to come back.
See the girls we've met since Misty have all been better characters. May and Dawn had their own quest that we got to see them work towards, love or hate Contests these two were the first companions we saw actively pursuing their goal. Iris' type themed goal actually had a title she wanted and while Serena doesn't have a goal of her own yet she is thinking about what it might be and has been entertaining without one.
But despite this people insist Misty was the best, that she should come back, that she and Ash are meant to be, that everything went downhill ever since she left. The mindset behind the OP image is why certain people hate Misty.
Not that I care; I prefer the Misty from the video games."
-She is overrated. It irritates me because I don't like how all the fans go crazy for her. They keep on saying like, "MISTY IS THE BEST POKEMON GIRL BECAUSE SHE IS THE ORIGINAL!!!" I didn't mean to offend anyone when I said that I was annoyed with her fans. Most of the fans won't shut up about it. I just wanna say, "We get it, fans! You like Misty, that's fine. But don't keep boasting about her and bashing fans that don't support her."
-She is selfish, abusive, and bad-tempered. During the the beginning of the franchise, she often torments Ash and Brock. After she left, I was relieved that Ash and Brock would stop getting abused.
-Her fear of bugs annoys the hell outta me. I can't stand her fear of bugs. It's so annoying. I mean they're not a big deal but she doesn't have to act like the world's gonna end.
This is purely the reasons why I don't like Misty everyone thinks she can get away with murder and that would be hottest thing ever. All Misty needs is for her to flash some of her boobs and people will love it. It's pathetic how this world is turning out to be. Anime used to be fun and delightful now it's disgusting and shameful.
I love Dawn, May and Iris. Misty is probably the worst dressed and she is treated like a queen. Dawn is treated like a **** just because her skirt rides up a bit how is that fair when Misty's outfit barely covers anything? It's insulting how Misty fans abuse these websites and manipulate everything to make her look better.
Ash doesn't deserve such cruelty from her and she has hit him numerous times for so-called ' stupid mistakes' She holds a grudge over him for the bike when she could easily buy a new one. It's called getting a life and getting over it =w=
Everyone, please remember that the main topic of this thread is whether or not you think the writers and/or dub voice actors are incompetent. It's fine if you want to debate about Misty but please keep it relevant to the topic. If you want to talk about why you prefer Misty's appearance over the other female traveling companions' (or why you prefer one of the other traveling companions' appearance over Misty's), then do so in "The cutest ash's female partner" thread. If you want to talk about Misty in general, then feel free to create a thread with that topic in this forum.
Without hating Kasumi or agreeing at all with the ugly turn this thread is taking (seriously Ominous Flare, I agree with some of your points, but the ad hominem attacks aren't needed), I like that comment by RockoAndHamtaroFan64. While I have nothing against people who prefer Kasumi or would like to see her come back, I'm of the opinion that she truly was the weakest link of the original cast of main characters and the one who was the most expendable. Satoshi was the central protagonist, Takeshi was the parental figure who provided necessary information about Pokémon, the Rocket trio were the primary antagonists, Kasumi was... ? I think that the inclusion of Haruka and Pokémon Contests in Advanced Generation went a long way towards improving the anime franchise from what I had felt had been a very tedious Jouto saga that had way too much in the way of boring filler episodes, which I feel was at least partially because Satoshi was the only one truly pursuing an objective.
I would actually go as far as to argue that the writing of each of the subsequent female protagonists represents at least one area in which the writers have improved from the days of the original series, in intent if not necessarily execution. Haruka and Hikari both had Pokémon Contests, and two different stories that centered around their attempts to win the Grand Festival that saw a lot of focus that allowed both characters to exit in a more satisfactory and complete way than Kasumi did. Iris may be somewhat controversial, but that the writers even attempted build a story for her represents more of an effort than what Kasumi got. And if the thirty-ninth and fortieth episodes mean anything, even XY is starting to build a goal for Serena that will receive more focus than Kasumi's did. Kasumi's ambitions weren't really revealed until long into OS' run, and even then most of the focus episodes she got did little to show how much closer she was getting to achieving them (excepting the well-done Whirl Cup, of course). We rarely saw her bond with her Pokémon the way Satoshi, Haruka, Hikari, Iris, Citron, and even Serena do with theirs. As I said earlier, this is the real issue with Kasumi: not that she was written out, but that the writers did little with her when she was actually on the show as a main character so that her exit would leave her feeling like a character who actually accomplished something when she was around.
This is not to suggest that every other character has been perfect (none of them have been, because none of the Pocket Monsters shows are really that good), or even to suggest that Kasumi is the worst one. This is to say that the writers actually deserve some praise in the way they attempted to improve on what they did wrong with Kasumi and try harder with their other characters, and argues against their supposed incompetence.
What I want? An entirely different anime. The show has become horrible. They had him battle and defeat Grant on Episode 25, have him take a whole 18 episodes to defeat Korrina, and now the scripters aren't doing an Episode involving Ash getting the Mega Ring. You just ruined everything, scriptwriters! They should start everything all over and have a different trainer that actually follows the timeline properly without skipping anything.
As far as Ash traveling companion treatment being indicator of writers becoming better orgnized and more skilled; implying Misty served as test subject on which they learned how to do better job with others later on.
We have to understand how pokemon anime was very, very different and initially strived to reach toward different viewer demographic unlike its case nowadays being primarily and only oriented toward small kids. On big part reason behind Misty never receiving enough fleshing out and development storywise was because of pokemon series having different undertone to it. With Kanto, Orange, Johto being focused in general more on adventure, development of friendship and introspection of character personalities, fears abd emotions. Treating pokemon series more like journey where friends explore world, enjoy in each other company and work in learning more about pokemon creatures and world which surround them.
That and a that time they didnt had developed template through which anyone would be more actively focused on and develop other than Ash.
Misty role in pokemon series was in bringing consciousness, identity and passion in main cast. providing comedy, lighthearted humor and great chemistry to cast. Her purpose was in being supporting character who acted like Ash coach/mentor. And give viewers opportunity to follow pokemon journey and world through eyes of shafted female which desperately wanted to break free from family shadown, prove her worth and vaue to herself and others while giving insight in how one type specialists function. What are their needs, motives and desires serving as healthy counterbalance to generic career profession we were following with Ash.
But most of all serve as intermediate who would keep under check Ash impulsiveness, naivety and Brocks pervert affinities with her outspoken, strongwilled and feisty nature being kind hearted but also assertive not letting others to put her down.
She didnpt received alot of focus like girl coordinators did, but for many people she made up for that with engaging personality and her antics and dynamic with group made this show interesting to watch. She served not only as coach but motivator in main cast pushing others to try their best(thanks to her Ash became better trainer with this not being only Brock merit). She often brought encouragement to others playing role of classical heroine saving other lives and pokemon,bringing group out of danger(St.Anne or Hoot Hoot Forest comes to mind),providing moral support etc. contributing more to anime plot than i can say for others(Ash not being included). While having unique story of herself having to grow in older sister shadow without parents , and prove herself to everyone with life not being shiny and easy for her. There is also many hobbies which interested her keeping character fresh, and her dream of becoming water pokemon master was unique having interesting premise behind it.
On big part reason behind Misty never receiving enough fleshing out and development storywise was because of pokemon series having different undertone to it. With Kanto, Orange, Johto being focused in general more on adventure, development of friendship and introspection of character personalities, fears abd emotions. Treating pokemon series more like journey where friends explore world, enjoy in each other company and work in learning more about pokemon creatures and world which surround them.
For that reason and writers themselves not being sure what they want from pokemon show to become majority of Misty character development came in emotional, personality sense expanding and buildiong on her quirks, fears and character traits.
Becoming more tolerant and acceptable toward other people like Ash, Brock, Pikachu etc, learning how to be more open and discover her own qualities. Getting over complex of feeling inferior compared to pthers which was imposed on her by older siblings, explore on her own qualities and strength she posessed without knowing it yet and becoming more compassionate and independent as person.
Explanation:
Spoiler:
When Ash met her, she was short tempered girl exploding over everything, trying to cover up her own lack of confidence with temper not having much thrust toward anyone and giving out impression how she can take care of things on her own eve when that wasn't true. With time after she got know Ash and Brock better she started to soften up and open as person sharing with them her backstory and problems, gradually growing in more mature and level headed character which learned how to be more patient and take care of issues by her own not relying so much on her friends anymore which came to expression the most during Johto series and onwards in AG.
As result she earned sister respect, regained confidence which was staggered through constant disparage from older siblings and questioning from various people about her abilities as trainer, confront her childhood trauma Gyarados learning how to use it and toughen up/became more self reliant with various achievements such as win of races or water based competitions, placing high in tournaments like Whirl Cup and recognition from various characters serving as confirmation of what she learned and improvement she went through as trainer.
Granted in goal sense May, Dawn, even Iris to extent were more fleshed out with more being explored regarding their dreams. But as far as characterization goes and emotional growth ill be willing to say how Misty developed most as person.
Which added more layers to her character and personality being very versatile and complex character imo.
This development was distributed in slow and at times even subtle way portraying Misty as character which gradually grew forward, And to unskilled eye which wasnt paying attentio to specific details and episodes focusing on character any change in personality would come of as step for worse, rather than better. Due to not understanding background and direction in which writers attempted to take Misty starting to show signs of teenage like behavior in late Johto, Hoenn. Which can be noticed in becoming more sassy, feisty in lighthearted rebellious kind of way as showed in interactions with Daisy in hosos or her frustration showed toward Brock obsession over girls or Ash immaturity when coming for visit. More playful, confident and flirty realizing what love and commitment toward it is(came better to expression when she got asked on date by Georgio)., Accompanied with becoming more tough, independent and responsible as person developing sewlfcriticism and acceptance toward differing views.
Thus developing misconceotion of her "not gaining anything" from journey.
So while we could say that writers competence and increase of skills in planning out and developing storyline may have improved in giving more development and expansion on companion dreams. Paying attention to better treat each pokemon individually showcasing in more detailed way their personalities and motives. Gave girls better explanation behind desire to become best in what they wanted to accomplish with more concrete sensew of direction being provided.
Things arent black and white and as far as emotion, balance and cogency of emotional development goes. In portraying character in more three dimensional way, coming of as realistical, deep and complex. In my opoinion writing took a plunge since Misty left in that aspect. She struggled, had emotional crisis and worked hard for everything she got. Which we see for every future travel companion.
But character also gave us more concrete examination of someone feelings. With lot of sides, various interests and conflicts going inside Misty or selfdoubts below her abrasive, assertive nature tending to keep personal issues to herself sucking things up and dealing with it rather than crying(making it all that more endearing when behind that tough, strongwiled attitude of hers due to growing up fast to learn to take care of herself because of sisters neglect and lack of parents were exposed her own insecurities and bad experiences when diving deeper in thoughts and motives revealing much more to character).
Something which critics also brought up in article i posted, which could be nusproduct of head writer at that time mr. Shudo wanting to treat pokemon series as more mature, deeper and family oriented show. Which would have certain realism and complexity brought into storyline and its characters.
So for that reason i can understand why many people i met online tend to say how pokemon series decreased in quality in that aspect believing Misty brought soul and heart to pokemon anime with, lot of that charm and deep, genuine emotion disappearing once she left show.
Wich may or may not be reflection of writers laziness or in essence decision to change formula cutting down on emotional and individual aspect of treating anime as separate media which explore on itself , cast and surrounding by straying away to higher degree from games in telling its own story. In return delivering more plot based show filled with more consistent and coherent sense of progression . Depending on how you look at it.
Without hating Kasumi or agreeing at all with the ugly turn this thread is taking (seriously Ominous Flare, I agree with some of your points, but the ad hominem attacks aren't needed), I like that comment by RockoAndHamtaroFan64. While I have nothing against people who prefer Kasumi or would like to see her come back, I'm of the opinion that she truly was the weakest link of the original cast of main characters and the one who was the most expendable. Satoshi was the central protagonist, Takeshi was the parental figure who provided necessary information about Pokémon, the Rocket trio were the primary antagonists, Kasumi was... ? I think that the inclusion of Haruka and Pokémon Contests in Advanced Generation went a long way towards improving the anime franchise from what I had felt had been a very tedious Jouto saga that had way too much in the way of boring filler episodes, which I feel was at least partially because Satoshi was the only one truly pursuing an objective.
I would actually go as far as to argue that the writing of each of the subsequent female protagonists represents at least one area in which the writers have improved from the days of the original series, in intent if not necessarily execution. Haruka and Hikari both had Pokémon Contests, and two different stories that centered around their attempts to win the Grand Festival that saw a lot of focus that allowed both characters to exit in a more satisfactory and complete way than Kasumi did. Iris may be somewhat controversial, but that the writers even attempted build a story for her represents more of an effort than what Kasumi got. And if the thirty-ninth and fortieth episodes mean anything, even XY is starting to build a goal for Serena that will receive more focus than Kasumi's did. Kasumi's ambitions weren't really revealed until long into OS' run, and even then most of the focus episodes she got did little to show how much closer she was getting to achieving them (excepting the well-done Whirl Cup, of course). We rarely saw her bond with her Pokémon the way Satoshi, Haruka, Hikari, Iris, Citron, and even Serena do with theirs. As I said earlier, this is the real issue with Kasumi: not that she was written out, but that the writers did little with her when she was actually on the show as a main character so that her exit would leave her feeling like a character who actually accomplished something when she was around.
This is not to suggest that every other character has been perfect (none of them have been, because none of the Pocket Monsters shows are really that good), or even to suggest that Kasumi is the worst one. This is to say that the writers actually deserve some praise in the way they attempted to improve on what they did wrong with Kasumi and try harder with their other characters, and argues against their supposed incompetence.
According to various studies (which DBZ Fan even posted), she also served the parental figure role as well (more specifically maternal). And besides, she also got a goal in Johto, or rather, it was more explicitly noted. Misty at least had a goal, what exactly did Serena have? And bonding with her Pokémon? Serena rarely even trains the one Pokémon she actually has. How exactly is she bonding with it? Even Misty in the first few episodes at least bonded with her Staryu and Starmie. And let's be frank, Misty did several things that, were it not for her, Ash and co. definitely would not have gotten far at all, maybe they would have been killed.
And to OminousFlare, as I noted above, if Misty was truly not a popular character at all, she definitely would not have gotten a Wikipedia article at all. I'm willing to bet that any number of hate posts about Misty you would find on the web, there are ten times more proclaiming love for Misty. Heck, in Super Smash Bros. Melee, Misty was also given a trophy, and not just any incarnation of Misty, but Anime Misty. The fact that she got a trophy over the other main casts at the time is a testament to how popular she is.
And regardless of Misty being there or not, Ash's retaining Top 8 in the Hoenn League (which, BTW, was the only league in AG) basically made the entirety of AG skippable. What's the point in watching the league if he's only going to retain the same rank as before?
Either way, yes, the writers have been very incompetent.
Weedle, I often see you saying that AG and BW were bad solely because Ash didn't increase in rank at the Pokémon league. If Ash was to increase in rank during each series, then he would have had to place really low in the first series, or else it wouldn't be possible for him to increase any further past BW. But that's not my point. There is much more to a series than Ash's results in the Pokémon league, and I really don't think that Ash's position in the league should have that much of an impact on your opinion of an entire series. Something that the writers attempted during AG through BW was putting less emphasis on Ash and giving some of the spotlight to other characters. It worked fairly well in AG and DP, with May and Dawn, but they took it a step further by trying to juggle an entire group of rivals for Ash, Iris, and Cilan during BW, which didn't work so well (although it had great potential).
Because OS put so much focus on Ash, many viewers tend to think of him as the only slice of importance in the entire medium. Ash is certainly an important character, but there is more to the anime than just Ash. The writers have been trying to tell us that for over ten years by putting more focus on other characters, but many viewers still aren't listening.
Does Ash retaining his position of being in the top 8 qualify AG for being skippable? Well, it's a matter of opinion. Some viewers watch the show to see Ash improve, which is fun but also a very one-sided view of the medium. Other viewers watch the show for the experience; seeing a different and more immerse side of the Pokémon world that they can't experience through the games, which is something that the writers have been excelling at imo, and has consistently been improved on since OS. How do they do that? By taking the features that were creating during OS and expanding upon them and taking them a step further throughout each series.
Weedle, I often see you saying that AG and BW were bad solely because Ash didn't increase in rank at the Pokémon league. If Ash was to increase in rank during each series, then he would have had to place really low in the first series, or else it wouldn't be possible for him to increase any further past BW. But that's not my point. There is much more to a series than Ash's results in the Pokémon league, and I really don't think that Ash's position in the league should have that much of an impact on your opinion of an entire series. Something that the writers attempted during AG through BW was putting less emphasis on Ash and giving some of the spotlight to other characters. It worked fairly well in AG and DP, with May and Dawn, but they took it a step further by trying to juggle an entire group of rivals for Ash, Iris, and Cilan during BW, which didn't work so well (although it had great potential).
Because OS put so much focus on Ash, many viewers tend to think of him as the only slice of importance in the entire medium. Ash is certainly an important character, but there is more to the anime than just Ash. The writers have been trying to tell us that for over ten years by putting more focus on other characters, but many viewers still aren't listening.
Does Ash retaining his position of being in the top 8 qualify AG for being skippable? Well, it's a matter of opinion. Some viewers watch the show to see Ash improve, which is fun but also a very one-sided view of the medium. Other viewers watch the show for the experience; seeing a different and more immerse side of the Pokémon world that they can't experience through the games, which is something that the writers have been excelling at imo, and has consistently been improved on since OS. How do they do that? By taking the features that were creating during OS and expanding upon them and taking them a step further throughout each series.
I get what you're saying, but the problem is that the main goal of the anime franchise is stated to become a Pokémon Master, which the anime (especially DP) strongly implied involved beating the leagues. When you are to have Ash improving in his journey, the only way to do so is to show him increasing in rank, since that actually demonstrates that he has in fact improved and grew experienced compared to the last time. When Ash doesn't increase in rank at all, there's literally nothing indicating that he actually learned anything, or grew stronger, or anything like that. Think of it like annual sports matches. Generally, if a team is doing better, they advance higher in rank compared to last time, and if they are doing worse, they generally decrease in rank. A similar trend can also be found in grading for tests in the school system.
And from the way Takeshi Shudo was commenting in his blogs, AG and DP were focusing too much on game elements (heck, the OS barely even focused on many in-game features, and actually had more anime-only stuff, even instances where the implication existed that the trainer can go for gyms in any order. Take Gary Oak in Kanto, for example: Gary Oak had ten badges, only four of which were actually from the games. And there were also two minor characters who had eight badges, one of which only had four, and the other didn't even have any badges from the games. In DP, however, they kinda had a pre-determined limit for badges, as evidenced by the slots in Ash's badge case).
And there was a way to settle that: Have Ash win Top 2, or better, have him actually win the league, yet lose to the first Elite 4 member. After all, DP made clear that even when he wins Top 1, he still has to fight the elite 4 and champion before he actually won the league.
I only find BW to be bad writing. Everything else I enjoyed a lot. Even XY is a major improvement over BW. It was obvious BW was trying to reset everything and around the end of season 1 they were like screw it. The BW games were good and if that was brought into the anime I would like to think BW would of been bearable. I still feel as if BW was dumbed down. It just seems so out of place to me when compared to OS,AG,DP and XY. I'm not sure what it is but it feels weird. Maybe it is due to (for me) everyone was just unlikeable Ash was terrible,Iris was horrible,Cilan was annoying Team Rocket had no personality the rivals were meh except Georgia? (I forget her name). Even the league felt very idk.... Heck even Dawn was OOC to me.
I do like XY a lot better. Sycamore has had tons of screen time in season 1 alone and Ash is back in his game. Plus the trio are enjoyable again. Not to mention the friends are fun. Again my opinions so I';m not claiming anything to be like "That is fact so deal with it" XD
As for Ashwinning a league this could be the time and here is why the league was mentioned by him early and idk but it felt like this time he wanted to win. Not saying he did not want to before but I felt the writing was foreshadowing something. Plus the first gym brought back Ash and training like he did in AG and DP but was gone in BW. Now take Grant's gym into consideration. It was not a simple gym battle but had him using all his Pokemon for a twist. Now it would seem he needs to take on his first mega vs Korrina. I would not be shocked if each gym in Kalos is going to be a twist challenging Ash in new ways. Also this could be the last league maybe or even the last Ash focus series since the 20th is coming up and I would not be shocked if we get a time skip with Ash being a mentor to a new trainer. I would rather have that than replace him all together. But again my opinions.
