Does religion work in practice?

[Abnegation]

Please avoid saying anything offensive about any faith or to any person about the faith that they hold. This thread is for sensible posts and interesting discussion, be a bias, headstrong, offensively opinionated poster and you may run the risk of getting yourself into trouble. Be mature, I urge you.

This discussion has been rolled around for centuries, but in which context and what phrasing, has been subjective. The question is whether or not the concepts of the 5 major religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism), follow through in practice. Are these religions hosts to fantasy, or do they truly back up their claims across the board and whether or not being religious will ultimately end in success (in the idea of relational ethics). Religion is often thought of as a way to control the masses, and certainly there are strong arguments to back that statement up. However, is religion something "man made", or is there in fact spiritual links to it, or perhaps, something completely different and off the wall in which you believe? What do you think, does it work? State your beliefs on the matter, and debate whether it works, or whether religion is something that can't be proven to be completely true, or is false to begin with. So, is religion correct, to put it simply.

Now, before you delve straight into the thread, take your time to glance over the main beliefs of each of the 5 religions, do your research, make sure that you can back up your points. However, just remember that not all branches and sects of each of these religions has the same view.

Again, I urge you, back up your points, avoid insults, be tolerant. This is a discussion/debate, not an argument.

 

[Bluerang1]

Well yes. My Church is brilliant. The people there practice what they preach which is why one will find it hard to not believe. So yeah my Church works, International Church of Christ is it. I might dwell on this subject more later, when it gets more active. Let's see how long this one will last before being closed xD There was a previous one which did great. Go PCers!

 

[lx_theo]

Oo, a religion thread. This will end well.

To start, the question is a bit hazy. Does what work exactly? I'm not sure if it means that the religion's parts work to actually make sense, or whatever you may mean.

But to get to the questions in it. It is simply is something that can not be proven true or false. In any logical debate, feelings and faith (which literally means belief without proof) do not stand as any sort of evidence of anything. Mathematical and scientific research, both of which are basically designed to prove things true or not, needs to find hard evidence that actual puts it into a realistic sense we can validate or devalidate. At no point so far, no real parts of either suggest that any of the major religions, let alone the basic concept of religion, exist in any sense. At the same time, the whole concept of religion basically requires for use to scour all the universe and all possible dimensions in search of it in order to prove it untrue. That is also not feasible.

In short, I don't understand the point of this thread.

 

[Oryx]

I have to agree with lx that "Does religion work" is a very vague phrase, so vague that it could mean almost anything. Is this a debate of morality and ethics, or is it a debate of which religion (if any) holds the divine truth? Is this a "Does God exist" thread, or is it a "Does religion do a good job of proving that God exists" thread, or something else entirely? Could you elaborate?

 

[Abnegation]

Oo, a religion thread. This will end well.

To start, the question is a bit hazy. Does what work exactly? I'm not sure if it means that the religion's parts work to actually make sense, or whatever you may mean.

But to get to the questions in it. It is simply is something that can not be proven true or false. In any logical debate, feelings and faith (which literally means belief without proof) do not stand as any sort of evidence of anything. Mathematical and scientific research, both of which are basically designed to prove things true or not, needs to find hard evidence that actual puts it into a realistic sense we can validate or devalidate. At no point so far, no real parts of either suggest that any of the major religions, let alone the basic concept of religion, exist in any sense. At the same time, the whole concept of religion basically requires for use to scour all the universe and all possible dimensions in search of it in order to prove it untrue. That is also not feasible.

In short, I don't understand the point of this thread.

You answered the thread with your opinion, which is what I'm looking for. But there's more than just yours, so the "point" is to discuss religions, and whether or not their beliefs and teachings are practical, and whether or not religions do really have truth to their teachings also. It's straight-forward enough.

I have to agree with lx that "Does religion work" is a very vague phrase, so vague that it could mean almost anything. Is this a debate of morality and ethics, or is it a debate of which religion (if any) holds the divine truth? Is this a "Does God exist" thread, or is it a "Does religion do a good job of proving that God exists" thread, or something else entirely? Could you elaborate?

It's a discussion on whether you think religion works, and if it is true. Tie in morality, ethics, anything, to support your points. I could name out 100 terms that refer to religions such as you mentioned, but I left it open for a reason since it's a broad subject. But it is very much both questions, do you think that the beliefs of the religions work in practice and whether the truth is found in religion. It's pretty much all in the first post.

 

[Oryx]

It's a discussion on whether you think religion works, and if it is true. Tie in morality, ethics, anything, to support your points. I could name out 100 terms that refer to religions such as you mentioned, but I left it open for a reason since it's a broad subject. But it is very much both questions, do you think that the beliefs of the religions work in practice and whether the truth is found in religion. It's pretty much all in the first post.

I asked you what you mean by "working", and you replied by saying it was a discussion about religion "working". ._.; That really cleared it up for me...It sounds like you MIGHT be asking if belief in God is something that can be supported, or you still might be asking whether the doctrines of each faith are usable in everyday life. Those are two very different questions that honestly are completely unrelated to each other except for the common area that they reside in, religion.

Also, when I asked you to elaborate on the first post and you say "It's in the first post", that also doesn't help explain what you mean either. xD;

 

[lx_theo]

So its basically just say whatever your opinion is? So its not about "whether it works", its just religion in general.

 

[Livewire]

I think it's important to not automatically tie human spirituality and organized religion together. Humans are naturally spiritual in nature, but not necessarily religious, If you get that. Religion evolved as a way to explain the unexplainable, and from our natural spiritual tendencies, i.e, our notion of a higher power beyond ourselves. Every single culture to ever walk this earth has had their own notion of spirituality or of a religion, which lends credence to the idea that humanity as a whole has a centralized belief in the spiritual, whatever it might be.

Does religion work? I think that depends what religion you're referencing, and who is referring to that religion. Everybody likes to think they're right, and the heathens be damned. A benevolent God wouldn't condemn billions of others to an eternity of fire and brimstone, but an over-zealous religious person would.

 

[Abnegation]

I asked you what you mean by "working", and you replied by saying it was a discussion about religion "working". ._.; That really cleared it up for me...It sounds like you MIGHT be asking if belief in God is something that can be supported, or you still might be asking whether the doctrines of each faith are usable in everyday life. Those are two very different questions that honestly are completely unrelated to each other except for the common area that they reside in, religion.

Also, when I asked you to elaborate on the first post and you say "It's in the first post", that also doesn't help explain what you mean either. xD;

Oh well, it's very much an open topic, you see, OVP is the section pointing at specific questions, but you're free to simply post your view on religion here, if that helps. And like I said, feel free to discuss whatever question you interpret, so long as you're talking about your view on religion, other chat is all about a general discussion, this one is simply just aimed at what your view on religion is. But yes, the questions I asked are in the first post. But like I said, this is a section where you simply post your opinion on a specific topic, so I'll simply ask you, what is your view on religion? And do you think that the teachings of various religions actually work the way they intend them to?

So its basically just say whatever your opinion is? So its not about "whether it works", its just religion in general.

very much so yes, but when you talk about religion, people always tend to question its effectiveness.

 

[twocows]

The basic philosophies behind most major religions are within my range of moral tolerance. I disagree with some (or many) of the tenants of each, but not to the point where I think that they can't be interpreted in a way that's, for the most part, in line with what I see as "morally good." Many great things have been done in the name of religion, and I think it's a positive thing for many people (which is one of the main reasons I never try to convince others that their beliefs are wrong regardless of what I may think). However, I will say that when I look at the people who have done good in the name of religion, I don't really associate their actions with religion, I see them as the actions of someone who is a good person at heart, someone who wishes to do good for others.

The major problem I see with most religious doctrine isn't that it encourages immoral behavior; I don't believe any religion explicitly encourages people to be jerks. The real problem is that any two people will likely interpret the same message differently, or selectively interpret parts (for instance, the people at WBC tend to focus a lot on the Old Testament, disregarding many of the teachings of Jesus). This can be compounded when a religion is translated out of its original language, which can lead to some ambiguous or even contradictory statements amongst different translations (I seem to recall some issue of whether a certain statement in the Old Testament read "man must" or "man should" or "man will" or something, which dramatically changes the meaning of the statement). My belief, though, is that people tend to interpret doctrine in a way that most falls in line with their way of seeing things. This isn't a problem, per say, it's just that we're now in the same position we'd be without religion. People who are naturally jerks will interpret doctrine in a way that allows them to be jerks. In other words, people who wish to be jerks will find a way to be such, religion or no.

As for whether I think any religion is correct in their mythos, I will say that I don't. However, I don't think that's a question that really matters. How things happened thousands of years ago doesn't concern me beyond being a minor curiosity. What matters to me is what effect religion has on people now. I think that largely it's a force of good that some just twist to their own ends. I'm not atheist because I don't believe in the creation myth pushed by any of the major religions (though I don't), I couldn't care less about that. I'm atheist because I don't and never will agree 100% with the philosophical teachings of any religion, largely because my interpretation of and answers to the bigger questions are always changing.

 

[Timbjerr]

Similarly to what twocows just said, I believe that religion itself has fulfilled its role to provide some basic moral guidelines for humanity and in that regard, it does work. There is the unfortunate side-effect of zealotry however...people that hold their own beliefs as superior than anyone else's. I was raised by one such woman, and as a result I was becoming one without my even realizing it when I was in my late-teens. Even though I still gladly label myself as a Catholic, I've since learned humility and compassion for my fellow man. When the day comes that zealots the world over learn this most basic of life lessons, the world will become a much more peaceful place overall, no?

Ironically, despite the variety of cultural and historical differences between them, every major world religion preaches the same basic thing: "Be kind to your fellow man and spread peace and a favorable afterlife awaits you." ...makes you wonder why nobody can get along, huh?

 

[Corvus of the Black Night]

Honestly, I've always felt that the reason why religion "goes bad" isn't because of the religion itself, but selfish people using an interpretation of religion to try to get their own way.

 

[I Laugh at your Misfortune!]

I think religion can work very well on a small scale or individual level. We've all heard about how hardened criminals have had their lives turned around through religion. The only problem is when it gets to a large scale. The larger the number of people, the higher the chance that some of them will be insanely stupid or evil, regardless of whether they're banding together because of faith, politics or whatever. Hence the crusades, suicide bombings, etc. It's not a problem inherent in religion, more just in humanity in general.

Although individual people can still do stupid things because of their beliefs. I know one guy who's decided to believe in the Norse gods because Thor would beat up Jesus in a fight. I kid you not.

 

[Riku]

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what to label myself. I guess, for all purposes, I am technically Christian. I believe in those basic principles of Christianity, even the one about Jesus as savior and whatnot I guess. However, that last part is always the thing that sparks a much broader range of questions. First and foremost being: why SHOULD a person have to believe, for example, that Jesus is savior and through him we shall find salvation? Take for example a person who goes their entire life always seeking to make the lives of their fellow man a better one. A person who is benevolent. Who is humble. Who never tries to force anyone into believing or doing something that the person doesn't want. A person who seeks to amend all "sins" and atone for them in earnest. Now, compare that to someone who DOES in fact say they believe and do, but in no way comes close to being the kind and compassionate person of the first man. Why would a truly loving, benevolent, fair and just God condemn the first man when he is a far better human being in almost ALL spiritual communities' standards than the second simply because of one little thing? And if he does condemn such a man, then this is where my own faith would sort of falter: is such a God truly worth believing in? I'm not saying that I don't adhere to my own beliefs in God, but... I do not believe that such a God that I believe in would be so unjust to a person simply because of such a thing as not believing in Jesus or whatnot.

I believe what I believe but I do not force my beliefs onto others because I know two things: 1- I am not meant to truly understand a power far beyond myself and thus am not meant to force that belief onto another, and 2- my own interpretations and feelings might in fact be wrong. I choose to BELIEVE to the contrary, and feel personally that I am right, but I do acknowledge that my own feelings and interpretations aren't 100% accurate for the same reason as number 1.

====

As far as organized religion goes, I must admit that I myself am not a particular fan. At least, not in such a large scale. I do not agree that one man should lead an entire group of people and that his/her teachings should be adhered to. I believe that you should take what they say to heart yes, but not follow every word said. I believe in smaller groups where people can gather and talk as equals and share and learn from one another. True fellowship is not going and listening to one person's interpretation. It is about the bonding between people in general and coming to terms and realizing and accepting new things. The way I personally feel I obtained through having these discussions with various people. There was no judging going on between us. There was simply conversation and a mutual desire to grow in friendship, in knowledge, and in spirituality.

As someone previously stated, most religions are honestly the same in the most basic of principles. There is a spiritual presence, one beyond our understanding, that determines our fate for an "afterlife." Benevolence, goodwill, openness, compassion, humility, understanding, and unrequited love for fellow humankind... all these religions preach that through these acts and devotion to that spiritual presence, as well as seeking to atone for their actions when they do something "sinful" or "humanly." Where they differ? It really is based on humanly interpretations of that divine power. Christianity and Catholicism were once one in the same. Even Islam and Judaism and Christianity all share a common belief in Adam, Moses, Abraham... even the God of each of those faiths are, in all honesty, one in the same. They are all the God of Abraham. It is merely in how people have chosen to follow and believe and interpret this God that is where those similarities seem to end. I am not trying to discredit any one faith as more false than another, mind you. In fact, I am always willing to learn more about all faiths and religions. But when it's all said and done with, it's still going to be me who must decide how I choose to believe, simply because I am the only one who can truly decide that for myself. I am understanding, and accepting, but accepting and understanding does not equate to agreement. But never shall I ever try to change what someone else believes. I shall always simply offer my opinion to those who wish to hear it.

 

[Mr Cat Dog]

For the most part, whenever I think of ethical quandaries like this, normally South Park episodes are the first things to spring into my head. For this one, the lesson in "Red Hot Catholic Love" seems to apply, and I agree with it wholeheartedly: the fundamental nature of religion - essentially to treat people nicely - is great, but when it becomes clouded in dogma, and rules, and spurious interpretation, and followers of religion become more concerned with following the dogma rather than the underlying principles that the negative effects start to show.

 

[aruchan]

I can't say religion works for me, because that's a relative question. Z_Z I mean, what does 'work' mean? I don't go to any religious body partly because I'm against the practice of organized religion and partly because I'm agnostic. xD

 

[lx_theo]

I can't say religion works for me, because that's a relative question. Z_Z I mean, what does 'work' mean? I don't go to any religious body partly because I'm against the practice of organized religion and partly because I'm agnostic. xD

Lol, we already covered the whole 'what does work mean for this' stuff. Check the first few post for more detail, but it basically means give your opinion on religion.

 

[Everyone Esplode Noaw]

I really wouldn't know what to call myself. I believe in the Christian God, pray a bit, and accept Jesus as a savior and all that jazz, but I just don't know what I might call myself. Really, I cannot stand organized religion at all. All it leads to is bloodshed and senseless fighting. God would not want that.

I don't believe your sexual orientation, religious preference, or anything else shallow attributes to your punishment / flourishing in the afterlife. The only thing that I think counts is character. However, if you're someone who goes around defecating on and burning religious texts, you don't deserve Heaven. Yet, I don't see a virtuous person doing that, either.

Religion works until you mix in a lot of people, crazy people, ignorant people, airplanes, firearms, fire, bombs, knives, etc. Nothing but another life is worth a life. My religious beliefs are quiet and unannounced. I don't shove it down peoples' throats because I am obligated to by a man - called preacher - that could very well tell us whatever he pleases. Christians can be extremists, too.

 

[Livewire]

I really wouldn't know what to call myself. I believe in the Christian God, pray a bit, and accept Jesus as a savior and all that jazz, but I just don't know what I might call myself. Really, I cannot stand organized religion at all. All it leads to is bloodshed and senseless fighting. God would not want that.

I don't believe your sexual orientation, religious preference, or anything else shallow attributes to your punishment / flourishing in the afterlife. The only thing that I think counts is character. However, if you're someone who goes around defecating on and burning religious texts, you don't deserve Heaven. Yet, I don't see a virtuous person doing that, either.

Religion works until you mix in a lot of people, crazy people, ignorant people, airplanes, firearms, fire, bombs, knives, etc. Nothing but another life is worth a life. My religious beliefs are quiet and unannounced. I don't shove it down peoples' throats because I am obligated to by a man - called preacher - that could very well tell us whatever he pleases. Christians can be extremists, too.

Everybody can be an extremist, regardless of the faith. Also, the religion itself isn't hateful, the practitioners of the faith are. The penchant for violence and hate comes from the human element involved.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Everybody can be an extremist, regardless of the faith. Also, the religion itself isn't hateful, the practitioners of the faith are. the penchnat for violence and hate comes from the human element involved.

Agreed it's the people not the religion that goes bad...
I think Religion can work if only it's leaders or followers don't become power crazy or hateful...