Everyone picks on me!

[Malevolent Mismagius]

Hello, fellow Pokecommunity citizens!
This is my first team on the Pokecommunity Forums and for my first team I have gone with full on offensive with a little wall to help slow things down a bit in this fast-paced metagame. While I have a few sets that I normally run, I will run a few ones over my brilliant overused pokemon. SDLuke, Mamoswine and Scarf Rotom-h are among some of the new pokemon that have joined the crew just so I can try them out and see if they are worth running in the future. Any advice is accepted and while I may not make the change, I will take it on board. Now Rate Away, and be harsh. And now, without any further ado, the team:


Overview:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EV: 252 HP / 252 Defence / 4 Sp.Atk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)

- Roar
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Mixpert is a great Swampert set (although the CBpert set is absolutely brilliant!). This is very similar to Mixpert except its defences were maximised to make it more awesome. As a lead this is great because very few leads carry a grass move and this can usually get a Stealth Rock in while the opponent switches to a counter. I wanted a new lead completely new rather than my Metagross and I think this may be the thing I am looking for. And no, I will not tell you my awesome Metagross lead's set. As the game goes on, this also doubles as a Salamence check and a Heatran counter.


---

Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
EV: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)

- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Ice Fang

I needed something that packs a punch and can revenge kill dragons. I completely dislike the use of Weavile so I'm just going to say "No". Dragons in general are really hard to counter so I'll settle with being able to revenge kill them. The EV spread, nature and item are all just things I got from Smogon since I have absolutely no experience at all with Mamoswine. I need some help with it, but it has served its purpose so far. I've used Stone Edge to hit Gyarados. There will need to be a better answer to Salamence in particular before I consider dropping him. Ice Fang hits switchins very hard and it was used over Superpower because that douesn't get much usage.


---

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EV: 108 HP / 176 Sp.Atk / 224 Speed
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)

- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

This is such a fun pokemon to use! His special attack and speed also make him a good candidate for a choice set. The opponent switches in their Blissey and BANG! It's locked to one move and I have eliminated the threat of the opponent's special wall for the rest of the match. I was thinking of using Hidden Power [Ground] over Shadow Ball because nothing screams "Hey Heatran, come get you free Flash Fire boost!" more than Rotom-h and Shadow Ball has seen little usage. As already suggested this Rotom is the best to use because it is Heatran bait and also because it does well countering some of the most overused pokemon such as Gyarados, Scizor and Lucario. I don't anticipate switching this out but if logic and reasoning are used I may consider switching out this trickster for something who does the job better.


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Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EV: 252 Attack / 4 Defence / 252 Speed
Jolly Nature (+Spe,-SpA)

- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch

Swords Dance Lucario was added to the team when I realised just how specially oriented it was. It's a great sweeper that usually grabs an Swords Dance before sweeping. Lots of the teams I play against usually rely on Gliscor to take this out so I have opted for Ice Punch. It is also insanely fun to catch a dragon on the switch as it saves me the energy I would use to revenge them with Mamoswine. I was actually very nearly using AgiliLuke instead of this because I fret a lot when I am outspeeded and must switch to avoid having Lucario defeated. It is very enjoyable sweeping and I won't be changing it anytime soon. Take him out if necessary but I would like to keep him if it is possible.


---

Vaporeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EV: 220 Defence / 216 Sp.Atk / 72 Speed
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)

- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Wish

I was originally running a Suicune here to cover my Heatran weakness. After testing the team, I was disappointed with how little firepower Suicune had. So I reluctantly changed the Suicune for a Vaporeon. This still disappointed so I resorted to.... CHOICE SPECS VAPOREON! This thing is great hitting hard with an underestimated special attack stat and passing Wishes around for the rest of the team. I've resorted to Max Defence for maximum walling capability. Modest Nature was selected to maximise its brilliant attack after I figured I was relying on it less and less to come in and sponge a hit. Wish is very useful for healing up the other members which has proved very useful. I'm liking him but it is not altogether that important for the team's success. Any other suggestion and he will overall be scrapped.


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Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EV: 176 HP / 240 Atack / 92 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)

- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Aqua Tail
- Pursuit

Choice Band Tyranitar. What a beast! This thing terrorizes so many teams its not even funny anymore. I finally gave into the temptation of switching the cautious approach of CBFlygon for the all-out massacre approach of CBTar. Stone Edge and Crunch provide a wonderful double STAB that hammers everything except Lucario. Aqua Tail>>Earthquake so that counters to the beast are minimised, however I am getting used to the idea of running Earthquake because a Metagross set I ran a long time ago did give CBTar some problems. But the best move on CBTar would have to be Pursuit. Coming in on Celebi or Rotom and leaving them with no options but to hope blindly I don't Pursuit is insanely fun! The EV spread I have used was used so that I can outspeed and 2HKO Skarm before it can Roost. I can also outspeed Meta and other Ttar. I may have been doubting his usefullness before but I'm glad I made the switch.


Currently being tested >>Vappy:

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EV: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)

- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover


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I personally feel the team has very little weaknesses and that any are mainly just minor annoyances. But let's see what you think. Vaporeon is debatable and if a pokemon that can do their job better comes along they will most likely be scrapped.

 

[Drapion]

I can tell from looking at you're team that you may struggle against an Electivire. Vaporeon isn't EV'd in speed so I think Electivire may be able to out-speed it and pick it off quite easily with a strong electric attack, maybe even a thunderpunch.

Many Electivires also know flamethrower and ice punch, which could easily take down your flygon and Mamoswine.

On the other hand, as long as you don't encounter an Electivire with thunder punch, ice punch and flamethrower then it doesn't look like a bad team. Just bare it in mind.

 

[PokemonMichael]

I think four choice items is a little excessive, dont you? Ill be back later for a proper rate. Also: Max Speed, Sp attack Electivire +boosting nature+ Thunderbolt = dead Vaporeon. I think.

 

[Alternative]

I'm not sure if this will help, but drop some EVs from Sp. Atk to HP or Sp. Def to take a hit. Also, Leftovers > Choice Specs on Vaproeon.

Life Orb > Choice Band on Flygon, since it gives you more variety on moves and can heal from Vaproeon as well.

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

I've realised how specially oriented this team is so I'm currently trying an SDLuke instead of SpecsLuke. By the way, Specs Vaporeon stays. In my experience all other only Vaporeon sets have their shortlived moments followed by failing (badly).

 

[wolf]

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EV: 252 HP / 252 Defence / 4 Sp.Atk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)

- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Good...

---

Mamoswine (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Snow Cloak
EV: 176 HP / 116 Attack / 20 Sp.Def / 196 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)

- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Toxic

Hmm... This is set is really meant to set up rocks, I see that something could be used>>him. If you want support, I would suggest P2>>him, gives a good counter to Mence, Gyara, and friends, and adds paralysis support:

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
- Thunder Wave
- Discharge / Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Ice Beam

T-Wave shuts down fast and fragile threats with ease, Discharge is chosen>>Thunderbolt because it has a higher chance of paralyzing, but you can opt for Thunderbolt for more power. Recover is for instant recovery, and Ice Beam kills Mence.

You can always switch to Rotom-H to take Fighting hits aiming at P2, which is a good combo. =P

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Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EV: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)

- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Fine...

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Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EV: 252 Attack / 4 Defence / 252 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk,-SpA)

- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch

K.

---

Vaporeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EV: 4 HP / 252 Defence / 252 Sp.Atk
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)

- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Wish

K...

---

Flygon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EV: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature (+ Spe / - SpA)

- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Roost

LO>>CB IMO, because you might want to try to keep a minimum of 2 Choice users.

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I personally feel the team has very little weaknesses and that any are mainly just minor annoyances. But let's see what you think. Vaporeon and Flygon are both debatable and if a pokemon that can do their job better comes along they will most likely be scrapped.

Comments in bold.
Kind of a small rate, I might come back later to do a bigger rate. ;D Yeah, I think P2 would be better>>Mamoswine, it gives a better check on Mence. You might want to change Rotom-H into the defensive version so it covers Vire better (although it is a bit rare since it is 30 on the server usage (or if you call it rare XD)).

 

[Pokedra]

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EV: 240 HP / 212 Defence / 52 Sp.Atk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)

- Roar
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock


Use that Swampert, its much better. LO is better then Expert Belt for Mamo =] Honestly consider Standard Rotom-H, Scarf is decent but Standard Rotom-H would benefit this team ;)

I'll drop by if I see anything else =]

 

[Max™]

Life Orb > Choice Band on Flygon, since it gives you more variety on moves and can heal from Vaproeon as well.

I think his Flygon is perfectly fine with CB considering Flygon needs all the power it needs nowadays, I might not be right though....

Other then that, maybe Roar > Surf? Could help against BP Teams but then again, I don't know who still uses them

 

[Samson]

something i've learned about scarf rotom is that overheat almost NEVER comes in handy. i dropped it for HP Grass and it's been great since. ability to finish swampert off and 2HKO rhyperior in sandstorm is kewl beans.

 

[=major yum!]

Mamoswine (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Snow Cloak
EV: 176 HP / 116 Attack / 20 Sp.Def / 196 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)

- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Toxic

I needed something that packs a punch and can revenge kill dragons. I completely dislike the use of Weavile so I'm just going to say "No". Dragons in general are really hard to counter so I'll settle with being able to revenge kill them. The EV spread, nature and item are all just things I got from Smogon since I have absolutely no experience at all with Mamoswine. I need some help with it, but it has served its purpose so far. I've used Toxic and Stone Edge because Stealth Rock wasn't necessary as Swampert already set the rocks up. There will need to be a better answer to Salamence in particular before I consider dropping him.

I see no reason not to make this an offensive set, as Lucario serves as a great wall breaker and Swampert sets up rocks. Slap a CB or Life Orb on there and keep toxic if need be, as it does help against swampert who gives Mamoswine some trouble. Max out speed and attack and consider a jolly nature along with those speed EVs to outrun Lucario with a neutral speed nature.

I really don't see what specs Vaporeon does for your team, as you already deal with Gyrados pretty well. Swampert kind of holds the place of bulky water, but I have been running a "Crocune" recently, and have found it to be a great defensive core of my team that takes Heatran+Ttar well. Another Pokemon that could hold Vaporeon's place is Latias, as it takes almost nothing from Heatrans attacks (even Dragon Pulse) and hits harder than Vaporeon does. Both specs and CM sets could work well, but it does make your team kind of Kingdra weak.

 

[Dark Azelf]

I can tell from looking at you're team that you may struggle against an Electivire. Vaporeon isn't EV'd in speed so I think Electivire may be able to out-speed it and pick it off quite easily with a strong electric attack, maybe even a thunderpunch.

Many Electivires also know flamethrower and ice punch, which could easily take down your flygon and Mamoswine.

On the other hand, as long as you don't encounter an Electivire with thunder punch, ice punch and flamethrower then it doesn't look like a bad team. Just bare it in mind.

Sorry, Ive only just seen this post. =/

He has a swampert (THE best overall vire counter in the game) and Rotom who is not far behind who takes lol damage from anything vire throws at it. Vire is not a threat to this team.

Oh and use Timid Nature on your Scarf rotom so you can still outrun lucario after Tricking your scarf away.

Noir lancer has a good ev spread for scarf Rotom, you should consider it, its : 188 HP/ 124 Sp.A/ 196 Speed @Timid Nature

LO Swine is pretty sweet, although Adamant i prefer on it because you can 2hko Swampert with EQ and strip ~50% from standard 252 hp/80 def Bronzong with Superpower.

 

[Syaoran]

The first thing I've noticed when viewing your team is the inability to handle sleep. A Smeargle lead or even worse, Breloom, could come and start messing with you. This is why leads like Jirachi that can cause 60% flinch with Iron Head or Taunt leads are better because they give you more control over the pace of the game.

Using a scarfed Rotom myself, it can become a huge liability with Overheat, because of the sp.atk drop. You have a way of handling Heatran (Vaporeon) so I suggest dropping Overheat for WoW to hurt strong physical attackers like Salamence or TTar. Use enough speed EVs to outrun adamnt Lucario and put the rest in HP for a little more bulk.

You could try Endeavor Mamoswine (instead of Toxic) so it's easier to KO with Ice Shard. I would also recommend LO in that case so you hit harder and get your HP lower, making Endeavor more useful. Jolly if you need another check against adamant Lucario or outspeeding Heatran.

 

[StrickeN]

How can scarfed rotom properly check Scizor without Overheat?

Bulky Rotom works better any way

Also, endeavor mamoswine? What? Endeavor + LO? Come on lets be real, its not going to get you any where...

 

[Syaoran]

How can scarfed rotom properly check Scizor without Overheat?

Bulky Rotom works better any way

Also, endeavor mamoswine? What? Endeavor + LO? Come on lets be real, its not going to get you any where...

Rotom hits hard enough with T-bolt and Scizor won't like taking WoW. Rotom already resists its STAB moves so it makes a good enough counter. Rotom needs the Sp.atk EVs to hit stuff hard enough.

I'm being very real, how is Endeavor not a decent option on a Mamoswine? Mamo forces a lot of switches, and being at low HP could help you bring more pokemon down and finish them off with a STABd priority Ice Shard. He also has Extremespeed Lucario to finish them off.

 

[Valeran]

Max Attack and Speed on Mamoswine and toss a Life Orb onto it. Get a Jolly nature so you're able to outspeed Adamant Lucario and anything else in that speed range. Mamoswine can take hits, but due to it's typing, it's weak to a lot of common attacks, like Fire and Steel. Better to surprise people with Mamo's surprisingly decent speed and hit them with a STAB Earthquake.

You might also want to try Superpower over Toxic. Choice Band is another option if you want some more power behind your hits, since you plan to revenge kill. (Unlikely that you'll need it for it though.)

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

Thanks for the rates, guys. I never expected so much. I haven't comented in so long because I was on holidays.

Roar>>Surf for Swampert to ruin Baton Pass chains.

Timid>>Modest on Rotom to outspeed Luke after tricking Scarf onto junk.

LOMamo>>SupportMamo. I hope that works out because SupportMamo was never that great.

I'm not quite convinced about getting rid of SpecsVappy. He's been awesome but I am still considering the swap.

EDIT: And yeh, I'm not weak to Vire.

 

[Noir Lancer]

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EV: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)

- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

This is such a fun pokemon to use! His special attack and speed also make him a good candidate for a choice set. The opponent switches in their Blissey and BANG! It's locked to one move and I have eliminated the threat of the opponent's special wall for the rest of the match. I was thinking of using Hidden Power [Ground] over Shadow Ball because nothing screams "Hey Heatran, come get you free Flash Fire boost!" more than Rotom-h and Shadow Ball has seen little usage. As already suggested this Rotom is the best to use because it is Heatran bait and also because it does well countering some of the most overused pokemon such as Gyarados, Scizor and Lucario. I don't anticipate switching this out but if logic and reasoning are used I may consider switching out this trickster for something who does the job better.

I've honestly always considered 252/252 on Rotom to be absolutely pointless. All that speed puts it nowhere and it's typing and defenses are far too good to completely neglect it by not investing into HP.

Modest: 108 HP/ 176 SpA/ 224 Spe

Is much better. The Special Attack investment hits a jump point, the speed with the Scarf puts Rotom ahead of all Base 130's by two points, to outspeed things that are trying to outspeed them, and the extra EVs went into HP for better swtich in power and for some tanking.

Modest nature is superior, don't use Timid when Flygon already outspeeds Adamant max Speed Lucario. If you want more insurance then run Jolly on Mamoswine instead or on Flygon as well to beat out Jolly Lucario. Timid would decrease Rotom's power and bulk, only to outspeed 1 poke that two other team members can outspeed as well. it's not worth it.

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EV: 252 Attack / 4 Defence / 252 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk,-SpA)

- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch

Swords Dance Lucario was added to the team when I realised just how specially oriented it was. It's a great sweeper that usually grabs an Swords Dance before sweeping. Lots of the teams I play against usually rely on Gliscor to take this out so I have opted for Ice Punch. It is also insanely fun to catch a dragon on the switch as it saves me the energy I would use to revenge them with Mamoswine. I was actually very nearly using AgiliLuke instead of this because I fret a lot when I am outspeeded and must switch to avoid having Lucario defeated. It is very enjoyable sweeping and I won't be changing it anytime soon. Take him out if necessary but I would like to keep him if it is possible.

Ice Punch is fine and dandy, but what's the point of using it when it's supposed "counters" such as Gliscor, Zapdos and Salamence, can switch in on the SD, outspeed and OHKO you before you get the chance to hit them with that +2 Super Effective LO Ice Punch?

Moral is: use a Jolly Nature.

Vaporeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Absorb
EV: 4 HP / 252 Defence / 252 Sp.Atk
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)

- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Wish

I was originally running a Suicune here to cover my Heatran weakness. After testing the team, I was disappointed with how little firepower Suicune had. So I reluctantly changed the Suicune for a Vaporeon. This still disappointed so I resorted to.... CHOICE SPECS VAPOREON! This thing is great hitting hard with an underestimated special attack stat and passing Wishes around for the rest of the team. I've resorted to Max Defence for maximum walling capability. Modest Natur was selected to maximise its brilliant attack after I figured I was relying on it less and less to come in and sponge a hit. Wish is very useful for healing up the other members which has proved very useful. I'm liking him but it is not altogether that important for the team's success. Any other suggestion and he will overall, be scrapped.

I've used Specs Vaporeon before, and can tell you from expereince that Wish looks better on paper then it does well in battle.

I found Roar to be more useful as it forces switches and phazes things out like Suicune and Ninjask before they can set up and wreck havoc.

You may also want to invest into some speed so you can outspeed things such as CB Tyranitar, Metagross, Skarmory, 4 Speed Scizor and other Vaporeon.

192 Def/ 252 SpA/ 64 Spe

Will do just that for you.

Also something to keep in mind, this is not an Infernape counter as it is 2HKOed by it's Close Combat, even without Stealth Rock present.

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

I made the changes to the EV spreads but I wanted to try out Wish before removing it.
My shoddy is screwing up so that could be a while.

 

[Ultima0071]

Here's a good Suicune that might actually work for your team:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Bold
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind

The key is to use calm mind and heal when you take damage. Once you are asleep, keep using calm mind until turn four (when you usually wake up). Then use rest agan until you are maxed out. Then proceed to sweep the opponent's team. This is not only a wall but a sweeper.

 

[.]

Here's a good Suicune that might actually work for your team:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Bold
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind

The key is to use calm mind and heal when you take damage. Once you are asleep, keep using calm mind until turn four (when you usually wake up). Then use rest agan until you are maxed out. Then proceed to sweep the opponent's team. This is not only a wall but a sweeper.

It's obvious you don't know anything about Suicune =/

Suicune @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

This is the correct set, but no, it doesn't fit in this team.