First XY Team

[Fayble]

Hello everyone! Thank you for taking the time to offer me some advice. As some background, I've never really worked all that hard on a competitive team - mostly theorycrafting back around Gen4/5 - so I personally don't think I'm very good at it. But Gen6 has really blown me away and I want to put in a lot of time into it. Without further ado, here's my first attempt - any and all advice/criticism is welcome.

Edit 11/18: After reading the feedback and trying some other combinations out, I've remade the team. I didn't feel it necessary to make a new thread, so the old team and all the reasons are still there, in the spoiler tag, although almost all the Pokemon have been replaced.

- - -
Old Team

Spoiler:

Klefki @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD
Nature: Bold
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Spikes
- Foul Play

Reasoning: While I'm not a huge fan of Klefki's appearance (I kind of hate it), I'm a huge fan of what he does. I'd plan to start with Klefki and have him set up Light Screen and/or Reflect, then Spikes. Foul Play is mostly to deal with anyone who happens to have a large Attack stat, especially at the start. After this initial setup, I mostly want to use him to just recycle screens and switch in to any major physical attackers.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 SpA
Nature: Calm
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Flash Cannon

Reasoning: This set is something I threw together, so I honestly have no idea if it's even viable... but based on what I've gathered online (and a few assumptions), it should work just fine. This Aegislash, unlike most that I've seen, is actually geared towards Special Defense more than anything else. Because of this, I opted to use Shadow Ball and Flash Cannon with Shadow Sneak for priority. Basically, if they're going to hit me with special attacks, switch in to this. King's Shield lowers attack stat however, so this may be better suited for something else. It's mostly there to easily switch out of Blade Form.

Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Nature: Jolly
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang

Reasoning: Not sure if I need reasoning here... Garchomp comes in, Swords Dances, wrecks house. Earthquake is especially good for the likes of Mega Gengar and Aegislash. I opted for Fire Fang because I don't really have any other Fire attacks. Depending on the opponent's Pokemon, this would be my go-to sweeper.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Atk
Nature: Timid
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- U-Turn

Reasoning: Greninja was actually the first Pokemon I put on this team because it's the only one that's actually bred. Just needs EV trained and the moves. But it's one of my favorite's and I have no desire to remove it from the team, so please keep that in mind. I've been running a non-EV trained Greninja with the same move set (my starter) all game and I love it.

The last two spots are fairly debatable... for the most part, Noivern is in for another Special Sweeper, with the last spot up in the air between Scizor, Mega Lucario, and Mega Blaziken. Because of Blaziken's involvement in Uber (if I remember correctly) during previous gen games, I hesitate to use it.

Noivern @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Atk
Nature: Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Roost

Reasoning: Like Garchomp, this may or may not be my "go to" Sweeper. The moveset is fairly obvious - hit hard and occasionally use Roost to recover.

For these last three, know that they're supposed to be another physical sweeper. I feel that if I were to use Scizor, I should replace Noivern with some other mega evolution, or potentially use it on Scizor. Possibly Alakazam or Gengar?

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP, 252 Atk, 8 SpD
Nature: Adamant
- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Brick Break

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
Nature: Jolly
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch

Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge

New Team
Forretress @ Left Overs
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Volt Switch

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- U-Turn

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Energy Ball

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Gooey
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
- Dragon Pulse
- Fireblast
- Thunder Bolt
- Dragon Tail

Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed

Aerodactyl @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head / Pressure
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Iron Head
- Ice Fang
- Stone Edge
- Roost

Reasoning: Basically, I plan to open with Forretress, drop Stealth Rocks and Volt Switch out, if viable. I want to keep him around for Rapid Spin and possibly, if SR gets cleared, to lay them down again.

Greninja remains the Pokemon that the team composition is based around, due to his stupidly high speed and wide move coverage. Chandelure comes in to take any fire attacks that Forretress attracts, and also as a Choice Scarfer. Smogon suggests HP Fighting instead of Psychic but because this is for WiFi battles and I'm unsure how viable it would be to try to breed a good IV Chandelure that also happens to have HP Fighting... I put Psychic.

Goodra is just a special tank that can hit back, if need be, and try to force a switch. Lucario is there to setup and sweep, Extreme Speed over Bullet Punch to deal with Talonflame. Aerodactyl is also there to deal with Talonflame, and also just stay in and bully, if possible.

Edits: Changed Goodra's nature to Sassy.

 

[Boilurn]

I'd personally go for Blaziken, as you already have enough Steel types plus the fact that Fire/Fighting have great STAB coverage together to KO Pokemon such as Kangaskhan and Forretress.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Aegislash should never, ever, ever, use a +Defense/Special Defense nature. I'm afraid you don't understand the concept of how Stance Change works. Me and Wolflare have pointed out how Stance Change works in the Simple Questions thread:

Only the base stats are swapped, not the EVs, IVs, Nature, etc. So, you'd definitely want to invest plenty of EVs into the offensive stats.

Not exactly. Physical Aegislash are commonly seen using Adamant natures with 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def. While this seems pointless, when Stance Change activates, the new 150 base Attack of Aegislash's Blade Forme will use the 252 Attack EVs. Mixed Aegislash are occasionally seen as well.

At level 100, the maximum Attack of Shield Forme Aegislash is 218. In Blade Forme, this becomes 438 when the Attack and Defense switch.

Anyways, King's Shield + 3 attacks Aegislash should look like this:
-King's Shield
-Shadow Ball/Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Iron Head/Sacred Sword
Nature: Quiet/Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SAtk
Item: Leftovers

Here are some other Aegislash sets you should try:
-Swords Dance
-Autotomize
-Shadow Claw
-Iron Head/Sacred Sword
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 88 HP/252 Atk/168 Spe
Item: Life Orb

or
-Shadow Ball
-Shadow Sneak
-Iron Head
-Sacred Sword
Nature: Quiet/Brave
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 SAtk
Item: Spooky Plate/Spell Tag/Life Orb

or
-Swords Dance
-King's Shield/Shadow Claw
-Shadow Sneak
-Iron Head/Sacred Sword
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers/Life Orb

or
-Autotomize
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Iron Head/Sacred Sword
Nature: Rash
EVs: 88 Atk/252 SAtk/168 Spe
Item: Life Orb

I also second Boilurn on Blaziken, having half of your team comprised on Steels is kinda problematic.

 

[Fayble]

I'd personally go for Blaziken, as you already have enough Steel types plus the fact that Fire/Fighting have great STAB coverage together to KO Pokemon such as Kangaskhan and Forretress.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think part of the reason I looked at so many steel types is almost entirely because of Fairy. I've found them to be particularly aggravating. Without Lucario or Scizor, that leaves only Aegislash and Klefki with any move that would be super effective against Fairy.

Which leads me to...

Aegislash should never, ever, ever, use a +Defense/Special Defense nature. I'm afraid you don't understand the concept of how Stance Change works. Me and Wolflare have pointed out how Stance Change works in the Simple Questions thread:

This is great advice and was, in fact, something I was unaware of. To clarify, Aegislash's Stance Change swaps only the base stat - the actual IV, EV, and Nature effect on those stats does not change?

That said though, judging by your movesets, I think you misunderstand that I'm not trying to sweep with Aegislash, which is why I question if it's even the right choice. I picked him because he would be very bulky both physical and, more important, specially. The fact that his move pool is primarily offensive is because aside from King's Shield, he lacks any real defensive moves not already covered by Klefki like the Screens. I like his ability to absorb special attacks (and, to a lesser extent with that EV spread/Nature, physical ones) but then also to turn around and start dealing damage back, if I so desired.

If I wanted a more special defensive aligned Pokemon, I suppose I have other (possibly better) options such as Goodra, Florges, the classic Blissey, etc.

 

[PlatinumDude]

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think part of the reason I looked at so many steel types is almost entirely because of Fairy. I've found them to be particularly aggravating. Without Lucario or Scizor, that leaves only Aegislash and Klefki with any move that would be super effective against Fairy.

Which leads me to...


This is great advice and was, in fact, something I was unaware of. To clarify, Aegislash's Stance Change swaps only the base stat - the actual IV, EV, and Nature effect on those stats does not change?

That said though, judging by your movesets, I think you misunderstand that I'm not trying to sweep with Aegislash, which is why I question if it's even the right choice. I picked him because he would be very bulky both physical and, more important, specially. The fact that his move pool is primarily offensive is because aside from King's Shield, he lacks any real defensive moves not already covered by Klefki like the Screens. I like his ability to absorb special attacks (and, to a lesser extent with that EV spread/Nature, physical ones) but then also to turn around and start dealing damage back, if I so desired.

If I wanted a more special defensive aligned Pokemon, I suppose I have other (possibly better) options such as Goodra, Florges, the classic Blissey, etc.

Alright, since the team is half comprised of Steels, Goodra shares an Ice weakness with Garchomp, and Blissey shares a Fighting weakness with Greninja, you'll have to make do with a specially defensive Fairy. I don't think Florges makes the cut because of its shallow movepool. Either Sylveon or Aromatisse will work because of their bulkiness and good support movepools:

Sylveon:
-Wish
-Protect
-Moonblast
-Shadow Ball/Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers

or
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Fire)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers

Aromatisse:
-Wish
-Protect
-Moonblast/Aromatherapy
-Calm Mind/Toxic
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil (note this works even in singles, making Aromatisse itself immune to Taunt)

Regarding Stance Change, Aegislash's Blade forme takes on the IVs and EVs of its Shield forme. Re-read my statement on how it works.

 

[Boilurn]

I actually think Florges can be a usable Specially Defensive Fairy, as its Sp. Atk, Speed and Sp. Def is better than Sylveon, although very slight. It only comes with the drawback of not learning Shadow Ball. So Wish, Protect, Moonblast and HP Fire would work on Florges, with the same EV spread, Item and Nature.

 

[Fayble]

OP has been updated. Previous team has been changed, but put into a spoiler tag for reference. New team is posted.

Mostly wanted to change the old team because while I was using Greninja as a starting point, I was also favoring other Pokemon in the selection process rather than what suited the needed role the best. For example, Klefki was chosen over other leads because of personal preference, even though currently I believe SR to be better than other entry hazards simply because of the "one and done" factor, where Spikes require multiple uses to be effective.

 

[PlatinumDude]

If Goodra is using Dragon Tail, it has to use a Sassy nature to maintain Dragon Tail's power.

If Greninja is using U-turn, a Hasty nature would be preferred.

Aerodactyl is only good in its Mega form. Since your Mega slot is taken up by Lucario, you might as well replace it. Barbaracle or Wash Rotom are good Talonflame checks.

Barbaracle:
-Shell Smash
-Stone Edge
-Razor Shell/Earthquake
-Cross Chop/Poison Jab
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: White Herb/Lum Berry/Focus Sash
Ability: Tough Claws

Wash Rotom:
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Will-o-Wisp
-Rest
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SAtk
Item: Chesto Berry

or
-Discharge
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power (Ice)
Nature: Modest
EVs: 232 HP/56 SAtk/220 Spe
Item: Assault Vest

or
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Trick/Thunderbolt
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf/Choice Specs

 

[Evisector]

On Lucario you'll want to switch out Earthquake for Crunch. This allows you to hit Ghost types for super effective damage. A super effective Earthquake (200 BP) is weaker than a neutral Close Combat (240 BP) due to Adaptability and has redundant coverage.

 

[PlatinumDude]

On Lucario you'll want to switch out Earthquake for Crunch. This allows you to hit Ghost types for super effective damage. A super effective Earthquake (200 BP) is weaker than a neutral Close Combat (240 BP) due to Adaptability and has redundant coverage.

The reason why Lucario has Earthquake is a way to hit Aegislash without triggering the Attack drop from King's Shield.

 

[Evisector]

The reason why Lucario has Earthquake is a way to hit Aegislash without triggering the Attack drop from King's Shield.

Fair reasoning, but King's Shield is a pretty obvious move and you can simply Swords Dance when they try and lower your attack.

 

[Fayble]

Thanks PlatinumDude for the movesets for Rotom-W - I've been looking at using him but I wasn't entirely sure, mostly because any damage that he does do still be special damage. Replacing Aerodactyl with Rotom-W would leave me with only Lucario (and to some extent, Forretress) to be a physical attacker. If a team were able to take down Lucario and throw out a Blissey, I'd pretty much just cry myself to sleep... which basically means "Don't use Lucario unless any/all special walls are dead and buried."

Also, I totally remember you mentioning Sassy nature in the Quick Q&A thread, I just never changed the document. Thanks for reminding me.

And yes, Earthquake is put on Lucario almost specifically for Aegislash and, to some extent, Mega Gengar... who are, from what I've been seeing, two very common and powerful threats. Although if I find that predicting the King's Shield is easy in personal experience, I'll possibly drop EQ for Crunch.

Also, does the threat of Talonflame justify running ExtremeSpeed over Bullet Punch, or should I keep the latter to deal with Fairies?