gender is weird

[Dawn]

You know, an odd thought occured to me.

No tl;dr in this post, just something that I strangely didn't think of before.

Destroyed the individual? Well gender roles have been around, at least from what we can tell, probably about as long as individuality. So if anything, those gender roles have weakened over the past many years.

Agreeing with this, I'd say Individuality is destroying gender roles. There's my opinion.

 

[Jolene]

Do you mean like how some people think it is weird if you are a girl and you play videogames?

 

[BareBones]

I've never really noticed it, y'know? Genders. It's never concerned me. I have guy friends, I have girl friends. I'm bisexual, they're all just my friends, y'know? It's not like I treat any of them different. I guess it's also because I have a friend who is physically female, but very clearly mentally male. And I'm androgynous mentally, I would class myself as both, so I can't really treat one differently.
Gender only matters when it comes to having sex - and by that I mean it's nice to know if you're having sex with a guy or a girl. Doesn't concern me either way, it's just nice to know.
So I suppose I don't treat girls and boys differently, and I don't think I ever will. I know that people are slipping into their genders stereotype, if you feel comfortable with that, then I'm not one to stop you.

And that's my answer... unless I misunderstood the question?

 

[Jorah]

No we aren't. ._. Humans naturally have very clearly defined genders that very naturally play a role in our lives.

Just Google "difference between sex and gender". Sex is biological, gender is cultural. You can get "feminine" males and "masculine" females.

Of course society can affect how we view males and females, just like everything else. Here's a really simple, basic one. Pink is a "feminine colour". On loads of different products, just by changing the colour to pink, it's now a "female version". I'm sure you must've seen it around, from toys, to bathrooms products, to things as ridiculous as glue sticks. Just look at the genders on this site, pink is for girls, blue is for boys. So, does this mean that, biologically, females prefer pink? Or that socialisation has taught us that pink is a feminine colour? There doesn't even seem to be any advantage to anyone over this stereotype o.o Only that it can help marketing. If males like pink then it seems to be something to be made fun of >_> And everyone knows not all girls like pink, so it seems to be an odd stereotype to have, anyway.

i'll put it in simpler terms. gender roles have, more or less, destroyed the individual in a way.

That's a pretty strong opinion. Why do you think this? You're on a Pokemon forum, so I presume that you like Pokemon, which is considered masculine. But the view that video games are for males hasn't actually stopped you from playing the games, or at least from joining the forum. If there were any reason for that, it would most probably be because it's viewed as childish.

 

[Amaruuk]

I always felt myself not fitting the majority of female 'gender roles'. I've always been a tomboy 'cause when I was little my younger brothers were my only close companions, and all the girls at school were little rich brats with their cliques and wanted nothing to do with me. Due to that I feel more comfortable befriending guys than girls. I guess I'm a bit biased myself about women's behavior in friendships versus men's and can't really understand or relate to a lot of stereotypical female behaviors. I also seem to delight all my guy friends (and my boyfriend) by defying the female roles and stereotypes but still being unquestionably feminine X3

I don't have to be a shoe-hoarding, makeup-caking, glued-to-the-cell-phone, walking stereotype, and frankly I don't know anyone who likes people to be cookie-cutter things like that. It sure is boring and superficial. Everybody has at least something about them that sets them apart; it's why we're humans and not some factory-produced product dreamed up by the media.

I find that yes, as time passes more emphasis is being put on individuality and less on gender roles. I think it's awesome and makes people focus more on liking someone for who they are rather than what mold they fit, and makes it more possible to form deeper, stronger bonds with one another. After all, aren't quirks, differences, and deviations from 'the norm' what make life and people interesting?

 

[Melody]

Part of what I hate is the part about gender roles where girls can act perfectly boyish and not be ostracized nearly as bad as a guy would be for being feminine. Seriously. If you take a close look at how some people treat gay guys who are just naturally feminine, you'll see that they get picked on far more than a girl would for being boyish and acting/dressing like a man. Seriously, it feels so unfair, especially for guys like me who WANT to try feminine things, but simply cannot out of fear that we'll be harassed if we do.

As Kinarii said, I feel like I shouldn't have to be a typical guy, who likes sports, football and other macho things. Who says I have to let the stereotypes define who I am? Who I am is based upon all of those whom I adore, respect, and enjoy. I learn from everyone, not just guys.

 

[poopnoodle]

That's a pretty strong opinion. Why do you think this? You're on a Pokemon forum, so I presume that you like Pokemon, which is considered masculine. But the view that video games are for males hasn't actually stopped you from playing the games, or at least from joining the forum. If there were any reason for that, it would most probably be because it's viewed as childish.

growing up in a small, conservative town where girls are supposed to behave a certain way, appear a certain way, and the boys believe girls are to submit to them. i've always been sort of outcasted for my more liberal and unconventional behavior and views, so that's why i feel a bit more strongly than others about it.

I find that yes, as time passes more emphasis is being put on individuality and less on gender roles. I think it's awesome and makes people focus more on liking someone for who they are rather than what mold they fit, and makes it more possible to form deeper, stronger bonds with one another. After all, aren't quirks, differences, and deviations from 'the norm' what make life and people interesting?

i agree, and for that i'm learning to appreciate generalizations. without social "norms" i suppose we wouldn't discover people who explore beyond the norms, and people-watching wouldn't be as fun xD it's just not cool when people are harassed for expressing themselves in unconventional ways u___u i just wish people were a little more accepting

 

[Guillermo]

This tends to be the case at younger years, rather than adult years. Well from what I've noticed, anyway. I don't let stereotypes define who I am, but a lot of the things I do are indeed what stereotypical males would do.

 

[Amaruuk]

This tends to be the case at younger years, rather than adult years. Well from what I've noticed, anyway. I don't let stereotypes define who I am, but a lot of the things I do are indeed what stereotypical males would do.

Yeah, kids and teens can be cruel little buggers to each other for the most absurd reasons (though adults can be just as irrational). I have found that many people outgrow those ways or learn/figure out how foolish they were.

@Pachy: Yeah, some of my male friends like what might be considered 'girly' stuff but they're still dudes just the same. Real friends don't judge, and if you've got some of those, that's all that really matters, eh?

 

[lx_theo]

I think that gender roles are more prominent at younger ages.

At young ages, you are learning, and socially and often induced by family, you'll be introduced to the stereotypes and as a free mind without much thought to it, will most likely attach yourself (usually the one that is your physical gender) to it and learn to be "that gender" gender role wise. But this isn't solely a social movement in one's life. Hormones and other physical traits about each gender will most likely push you to one path as well, explaining the stereotypes of each role beyond physical traits of the adults of each gender.

Soon enough, after you've learned your gender growing up (maybe even learned the other some should you have been pressured towards yours) you'll come to your independence phase come adolescence and find the area of the spectrum that fits you best. Though society has a tendency to hate things that are different than them, and to go too far on the other side of the spectrum will often be frowned upon, and deters too much movement. Adolescence is also a time of finding belonging, and that factors into the implications of the before mentioned society's status.

Adulthood usually makes people less caring of belonging beyond their family, friends, and possibly community (town, neighborhood, country, etc.) rather than society in general. With that in mind, it'll free up the ability to be whoever you are. Though, there are exceptions of course.

 

[TrainerShane]

Gender roles have existed since the dawn of the human race and shall continue on until the day our species is extinct.

HOWEVER, we need to understand the difference between cultural gender roles(formative) and real gender roles. Cultural gender roles are laughable constructs fabricated by society for a number of reasons but most without any actual basis in reality. The only ground they can claim as foundation is that of real, true gender roles, the roles determined before we were even born. However, these things are separate.

Take me for example. I am a twenty-one year old male in the United States. I enjoy video games, played High School football and baseball, and generally enjoy most things that society has deemed acceptable. However, give me the choice of skirts or jeans and it isn't a contest-I prefer skirts. I also prefer most female clothing, something which breaks cultural gender roles.

However, it does not have any baring on the actual gender role I was assigned, and as such, has no effective rebuttal in the discussion of gender role.

 

[Fluorii]

I hate stereotypes. I never really fit in with other girls; most of my friends are guys. Although, these days, I dress and try to act feminine. I figure I can sacrifice personal expression for social harmony. It's really not that bad. My close friends know what I'm really like.

 

[Alakazam17]

Part of what I hate is the part about gender roles where girls can act perfectly boyish and not be ostracized nearly as bad as a guy would be for being feminine. Seriously. If you take a close look at how some people treat gay guys who are just naturally feminine, you'll see that they get picked on far more than a girl would for being boyish and acting/dressing like a man. Seriously, it feels so unfair, especially for guys like me who WANT to try feminine things, but simply cannot out of fear that we'll be harassed if we do.

As Kinarii said, I feel like I shouldn't have to be a typical guy, who likes sports, football and other macho things. Who says I have to let the stereotypes define who I am? Who I am is based upon all of those whom I adore, respect, and enjoy. I learn from everyone, not just guys.

That sounds quite like my situation. I've associated more with girls all my life, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Though I've always tried to hide it, thinking about the harassment I know I will get if I don't. I decided on my own when I was little that I would never tell anyone about it, but that all seemed to crack up last year when I told my four best friends, and earlier this month when I told my little brother. XD

Without gender roles, I do think the world would be better. However, I also think that I'm in the minority with regards to this sentiment. Legally there has been a lot of progress, though socially I think it will always be a problem. But that can be said for basically any form of discrimination against a specific group of people. :/

 

[Dawn]

Without gender roles, I do think the world would be better.

"In a perfect world..."

There's way too much angst in wishing the death of gender roles. Some of them are completely valid. Some, however, are believed to still be gender roles even after they're no longer the norm for the gender in question. That's a fallacy.

I dare say gender roles are part of individuality, and it would be nothing but censorship to attempt to destroy them. The are after all, just research and statistics.

Bla bla bla Girls n' Boys are not equal and this is a good thing.

TL;DR
Gender roles don't hurt people. People who use gender roles incorrectly hurt people.

 

[Alakazam17]

"In a perfect world..."

Well, I thought that bit was implied. The world would be better without prisons as well, "in a perfect world" where crime doesn't exist.

There's way too much angst in wishing the death of gender roles. Some of them are completely valid.

I don't wish the death of them entirely; in fact, I agree that some of them are valid. Little boys most often prefer to play with trucks, and little girls often prefer to play with dolls. That's not something that is imposed on them in most cases. What I do wish the death of is the notion that a boy playing with dolls or a girl playing with trucks is a bad thing. They break away from the norm, but so what?

Some, however, are believed to still be gender roles even after they're no longer the norm for the gender in question. That's a fallacy.

I'd have used the term 'ignorance,' but whatever.

I dare say gender roles are part of individuality, and it would be nothing but censorship to attempt to destroy them. The are after all, just research and statistics.

I started thinking I agreed with you, but now I'm not too sure. So, for instance, if a male started living under a female's "gender role," would you consider that destruction or not? If yes, I don't agree with you. XD

Bla bla bla Girls n' Boys are not equal and this is a good thing.

Definitely agree here. =P

Gender roles don't hurt people. People who use gender roles incorrectly hurt people.

And here.

 

[Teara]

I enjoy my feminism and use it to my advantage. When I fish, I don't have to bait my hook, because I'm girly :3
On the other hand, I don't carry a purse and like working on cars.

 

[§acred†Beo!]

Gender in my mind is just a word to describe the anatomy of a person. It really can't be used when talking about a persons personality though.

For example i'm a male, but at the same time I tend to be more feminine when it comes to certain things.

 

[lx_theo]

Gender in my mind is just a word to describe the anatomy of a person. It really can't be used when talking about a persons personality though.

For example i'm a male, but at the same time I tend to be more feminine when it comes to certain things.

Nah, technically sex is what refers to biological status and gender is the mental status.

 

[Amaruuk]

@Yellow: I agree with that whole post there.

@Pachy and anyone else in his situation: I forgot to mention. For straight guys, I think it's good to have a feminine side, too. From what I know of chicks, even tomboys like myself like a guy not to be totally macho, but to have a bit of both sides. We think it's adorable when a guy likes something we like, just as much as we might like a guy to be 'manly'. Personally I can't stand overly-macho football-jock-gun-enthusiast types. Though, there are chicks that like that stuff too, so no matter what gender you are or where on the spectrum you are, there are others like you, and if people pick on you for it then they can just buzz off. They're not worth it.

 

[Melody]

Gender Stereotypes

Here's a good discussion point, how many of you have had to tolerate others expecting you to do something which conforms to the norms of your gender (Physical) when the exact thing you're pressured to do is just not within your character? Do you think that the current stereotypes and standards are fair? Discuss them here, but keep it civil and try not to spam the thread up with debates...if it gets heated, Chibi gets crankeh. o.o

Personally I don't think they're entirely fair. Most gender based expectations need to take second seat to the character of the person. Not all men feel like they have to wear drab colors all the time, nor do all girls feel the need to dress up and be girly all the time.

The perplexing thing is that girls can act quite boyish, and no one bats an eye. A guy goes feminine and people either harass him, assume he's gay or generally dislike the person. It seems kinda unfair if ya know what I mean.

If you're going to post hateful things, you will regret them. Please be civil and be extremely careful not to insult others when replying to their side of the debate.