Gender Roles

[Esper]

This is a topic I take a particular interest in. There's a lot that can be said and discussed about it and I know some semi-recent threads here have touched on part of this topic, but I don't think we've had one specifically for this. Anyway, here are some potential starting off points:

- The role of gender
- Stereotypes
- Biological and cultural influences, including:
→ Gender as a separate idea from sex
→ Nature vs. nurture arguments
- Anything else that's related to this topic

So I'll just start off the discussion by saying that I was raised by a mother and father who both generally fit into the 'typical' roles: my mother cooked a lot more than my dad did and my dad worked a lot more than my mom did and I think it caused some tension for them. I have to wonder if they'd have been happier without these traditional roles.

Anyway, discuss away. As always, keep things civil.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I think that choice is the good thing here. If a couple wants to have a traditional family with the man as the bread winner and the woman tending to the domestic duties, that's fine with me. It also doesn't affect me at all if a couple wants to sway away from those traditional gender roles.

 

[Rainy Day]

I think that choice is the good thing here. If a couple wants to have a traditional family with the man as the bread winner and the woman tending to the domestic duties, that's fine with me. It also doesn't affect me at all if a couple wants to sway away from those traditional gender roles.

I agree completely with this. It's the choice of the constituents of a relationship how the relationship should go down.

 

[Shining Raichu]

What I really don't like about gender roles is that people seem to fit into them whether they want to or not, like society beats them down. My mother promised herself she wasn't going to live like her mother, yet she has pretty much done exactly that. It makes me sad because she could have had a lot of potential beyond a housewife and part-time toy-store staff.

I don't like traditional values at all. They hold the world back in my opinion, but if that's what makes people happy then that's fine. But what bugs me is the bullying surrounding gender roles - if someone doesn't fit the stereotype (this is particularly true of males) then they're bullied and given grief about it. If someone prefers to dance than play football, just shut up and let them, it doesn't affect your life.

 

[aruchan]

I live in a house where while my mom is stay-at-home, my dad actually cooks the food a lot more-basically only. My mom used to be more of the dutiful mother but due to health problems and the like she is more absentee; while this would have posed a problem when my brother and I were younger, I am less affected by it at my age.]

I would never, ever be a stay-at-home parent. I have too many ambitions and dignity.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I live in a house where while my mom is stay-at-home, my dad actually cooks the food a lot more-basically only. My mom used to be more of the dutiful mother but due to health problems and the like she is more absentee; while this would have posed a problem when my brother and I were younger, I am less affected by it at my age.]

I would never, ever be a stay-at-home parent. I have too many ambitions and dignity.

Some parents take joy in taking care of their children and making sure they are in a safe, sanitary home. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with your ambitions, but it seems like you're suggesting that stay-at-home parents don't have any dignity.

 

[Arkywhitegirl]

Personally I agree with them to an extent, not women should just stay in kitchen but I do believe that men and women serve complimentary roles and are just, by nature, better at doing certain things. There can be some overlap of course, but I think things work better when we have our own roles, not necessarily ones you may think.

For example, I don't care if she is a martial arts master, if someone breaks into a home I would be appalled if a man sent his gf/wife to check it out.

I have just always seen men as providers and protectors and women as nurturers.

 

[Razer302]

I would love it if I could go ot earn the money and the wife could stay at home and be a mum to the kids. I wouldn't even mind cooking the food or anything. Aslong as the kids always had someone there I would be happy.

I see it very old fashioned I know. lol

 

[Shining Raichu]

I think things work better when we have our own roles, not necessarily ones you may think.

For example, I don't care if she is a martial arts master, if someone breaks into a home I would be appalled if a man sent his gf/wife to check it out.

Well that's a fair point, but what about personal roles based on our own personal strengths, rather than based on whether we're male or female?

Also, you can bet your sweet behind that if I were dating or married to a martial arts master and someone broke into my house, I would be sending her, a martial arts master, to check it out :P. No need for me to be a hero when she clearly knows what she's doing lol

 

[Esper]

Personally I agree with them to an extent, not women should just stay in kitchen but I do believe that men and women serve complimentary roles and are just, by nature, better at doing certain things. There can be some overlap of course, but I think things work better when we have our own roles, not necessarily ones you may think.

What would you (or anyone) say should be done with single parents who have to be both providers and nurturers? They can't neglect being one or the other very easily.

 

[StarlightSerenity]

I live in a house where while my mom is stay-at-home, my dad actually cooks the food a lot more-basically only. My mom used to be more of the dutiful mother but due to health problems and the like she is more absentee; while this would have posed a problem when my brother and I were younger, I am less affected by it at my age.]

I would never, ever be a stay-at-home parent. I have too many ambitions and dignity.

I highly doubt you mean that to be offensive but it is - certainly to someone like myself who would much prefer to be a stay at home mum and housewife than have a career. Sadly, I'm highly unlikely to have that as my partner is disabled an unable to work himself, I will be the breadwinner whether I like it or not.

My personal "wants" are stated above, but I definately think that the ability to choose is a good thing - if a person wants to live their life a certain way (excluding criminal, addiction-ruled lives etc) then they should be able to with judgement or pressure to do things a different way. That will never happen though, at least not in any of our lifetimes. Each country, whatever, has its own culture, its own traditions etc which dictate what is the social norm, for everyone to be accepted and left to live their lives without being judged there would have to be next to no culture - other than the social norm that everyone is accepting of each other.

Sorry, slightly off topic I think.

I do think, personally, that the one parent at home, the other the breadwinner is the best family situation for children as it gives two totally different role models, shows them two different aspects of the world and the possibilities out there. Hopefully that makes some sort of sense!

I'm all for choice though, my personal housewife wish stems from other aspects which I'm not allowed to talk about on a forum like this ;)

What would you (or anyone) say should be done with single parents who have to be both providers and nurturers? They can't neglect being one or the other very easily.

Thats just a case of maintaining a balance between the two roles, my mum was a single parent from when I was 10 and she managed to balance the two roles quite well, it's difficult but it can be done.

I dont think that its ideal, neither would more single parents, but you have to deal with what life throws at you. I for one dont agree with couples who stay together "for the sake of the children", kids know much more about their parents situation and feelings for each other than they let on thats for sure.

 

[Steven]

I don't really know what to say, so I am just going to take from the first post and say general statements that sum up my views.

- The role of gender
Gender roles are completely created by society. In my opinion, they shouldn't exist. If a woman wants to be "manly" and be the bread-winner, while the man wants to be "girly" and stay at home, who am I to judge?

- Stereotypes
Stereotypes exist because some people are stereotypical. Just throwing that out there. That doesn't make it the least bit okay to make generalizations about an entire group of people though.

→ Gender as a separate idea from sex
Gender and sex are the same thing, but the don't coincide with what's in your pants all the time.

→ Nature vs. nurture arguments
I see both sides of this argument. However, I lean towards nature as if it was nurture that caused gender issues or determined sexuality I would be completely fine in those people's eyes. And according to them, I'm going to burn forever. :)

 

[TRIFORCE89]

I think whoever is the better cook should do the cooking.

Once a child enters the picture, both should take maternal/paternal leave for as long as possible if their work supports it.

I dislike the idea of daycare or having your parents raise your child, if it can be avoided. Ideally, one parent should be home - I don't care who. I would approach it by evaluating together eachother's aspirations, their current employment, pay, likelihood to advance/be promoted, etc. In short, figure out if its possible to live off one income for the long term, and if so... who's and why? This talk should happen before you plan on having a child, maybe even before you're married.

But, if its not possible and both parents have to work to support the family, that's okay too - just not my ideal situation

 

[Azureth]

Obviously Ideally I do believe it's best when at least one parents can stay home to take care of the kid. Nowadays kids are being raised by TV, Internet, etc. no wonder so many are messed up.

Like it or not nature has suited men and women for different roles, think back to the hunter gatherer society. Obviously it's not like that now, and I agree if the woman makes a very significant amount where the man working wouldn't make near as much it would probably be best for him to stay home, however I believe women are better at understanding a childs needs and giving them what they need.

I like this video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEuaRzCiCh0

 

[Rogue planet]

What would you (or anyone) say should be done with single parents who have to be both providers and nurturers? They can't neglect being one or the other very easily.

Exploit the welfare system. My mum hasn't had a job for 20 years.

If a couple have a child then the one with the lowest paying job takes maternity leave. Situation solved, gender roles rejected.

Gender roles never have to define anyone. In today's society everything is about choice. Like everything else though, society will treat you differently depending on how you act.

All the celebrity chefs I see on TV are male, not sure why cooking is seen as a woman's job.

 

[Melody]

Gender roles in today's world are not the same as they were when our parents and grandparents were children.

I find anyone who attempts to enforce your "Normal" roles for your gender is behind in the times. I myself certainly defy gender stereotypes where society isn't hypersensitive to it, and I'm much happier in doing so! I may never actually wear a skirt in public, but that's not what I'm all about anyway. I'm not a shock value person, I just enjoy expressing myself in unconventional ways. I paint my nails, I have my ears pierced but otherwise I'm typically quite casually dressed.

Gender roles are silly, because quite simply, sometimes a woman can do it better than a man can. Sometimes a man can do it better than a woman can. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, and overall, it's not your gender that makes you who you are, it's only a small portion of what you are. Spiritually, it doesn't even matter if you're a man or a woman, neither are inferior because they're both from the same source.

Now while I see myself as the breadwinner for my own family, that doesn't mean I will reject it if the person I end up dating ends up being the breadwinner. Seriously, it doesn't matter. I just don't date because I'm still in school and I have bigger concerns than dating to be paying attention to. That doesn't mean I will ignore love if it gives me a slap, but I'm not chasing mates down, and I'm a passive person anyway...at least until someone shows mutual interest in me in that way...which typically only happens when you know them anyway. (Oh and there's no one to chase around here anyway)

 

[Dawn]

I think that gender roles are an important part of development. I always find it rash and even slightly shallow when someone starts the whole "They're bad get rid of them or go out of your way to not fit them." thing. Ideally, gender roles should fit the norm and when they stop fitting the norm, should be re-defined to fit the norm. (See: Gender roles should probably not be the same a decade later. The norm changes pretty often.) They're not supposed to be arbitrary.

Reason being, I firmly believe that we as humans are very biased about gender roles. I think that some people just like to take their choice not to fit into those gender roles too far, becoming the type of person who does things just to shock people and that sort of hipster nonsense.

On that note, I do think there's a choice to be made. That choice would be difficult to make without gender roles.

 

[groteske]

I'm a better cook than SO and genuinely enjoy it, so I cook. I clean better and place more value on cleanliness than SO, so I clean. In our relationship, gender roles are assigned on a best-fit approach. It so happens that they're usually aligned with typical roles.

The fact that he has a secure job doesn't deter my jobsearching in the least. Were I to leave and marry some millionaire, I'd still want a career of my own. Just how I am. My mother married a self-made man and doesn't need to work, and I've seen the stress it causes him and despise the blase attitude with which she spends his money.

It does make me cringe to imagine a situation in which I was the more masculine figure. As I get older I get both more and less tolerant of certain things, but that's one idea I will always react with inherent distaste to. For the sake of broad-mindedness, it'd be interesting to hear from someone involved in this type of relationship.

 

[Esper]

I think that gender roles are an important part of development. I always find it rash and even slightly shallow when someone starts the whole "They're bad get rid of them or go out of your way to not fit them." thing. Ideally, gender roles should fit the norm and when they stop fitting the norm, should be re-defined to fit the norm. (See: Gender roles should probably not be the same a decade later. The norm changes pretty often.) They're not supposed to be arbitrary.

How do you tell if someone is "going out of their way" not to fit with gender roles? You're saying that gender roles change, right? So couldn't someone just be going with the change?

Just for a quick example: my grandma has complained about some hair styles that boys have. She says they "look like girls" and to her those boys are basically "going out of their way".

 

[Dawn]

How do you tell if someone is "going out of their way" not to fit with gender roles? You're saying that gender roles change, right? So couldn't someone just be going with the change?

Just for a quick example: my grandma has complained about some hair styles that boys have. She says they "look like girls" and to her those boys are basically "going out of their way".

Because the people who become obsessed with going out of their way not to are generally somewhat eccentric on how they look or act. They are also a bit irritating because they tend to be pretentious hipsters.

Also, a single person cannot change gender roles. For gender roles to change, a majority of people should have each characteristic of the roles rather than not. It's not always completely obvious which is the case, but simply giving it a teensy bit of time to observe others should make it fairly clear. Example: If a woman approaches me wearing pants, and I look around me and notice many other women are wearing pants, I become aware that it is no longer a gender role for women to wear dresses and skirts. On the other hand, if I look around and notice few if any others are wearing pants, I become aware that this person does not fit the gender prototype. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)