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Help Me Make a Better Team (Competitive)

  • 14
    Posts
    7
    Years
    • Seen Aug 8, 2018
    I've battled competitively for some time now. I battle at Pokemon Showdown. So far, this is my team: (I'll explain why I choose the Pokemon)

    Altaria-Mega (F) @ Altarianite
    Ability: Pixilate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 108 Def / 148 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Facade
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Roost
    Altaria. An underrated Pokemon. I don't know why, but my Altaria is always burned, poisoned, or paralyzed each time she battles. That's why I taught her Facade. Additionally, Mega Altaria's ability, Pixilate, further increases Facade's already devastating 140 damage with STAB. Dragon Dance is for someone who is stubborn enough to teach his Pokemon Outrage. Mega Altaria is an awesome Fairy Pokemon IMO because she's one of the very few Fairy Pokemon to be able to learn Earthquake, as it's an awesome coverage for all of Fairy's weaknesses. Roost is for healing Stealth Rock, burn, and poison damage.

    Aggron (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Heavy Metal
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Heavy Slam
    - Iron Defense
    - Smack Down
    - Payback
    180 Base Defense. What a physical wall. Add an Iron Defense or two and even 4x weakness to Fighting and Ground moves (particularly physical ones) won't bother Aggron a bit. Smack Down, the only physical Rock move that has 100% accuracy also brings down annoying birds from the sky. Thanks to Heavy Metal ability, Heavy Slam is even more devastating than ever. His low speed isn't a drawback for him, since Payback takes an advantage from it.

    Blaziken (M) @ Wide Lens
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Protect
    - High Jump Kick
    - Blaze Kick
    - Dual Chop
    Blaziken. The coolest Fire Pokemon design alongside Charizard IMO. Wide Lens makes Blaziken's move more accurate at almost 100% accuracy. Speed Boost, an ability that made Blaziken and its mega evolution banned from OU, is present here. Protect will stall the opponent so that Blaziken will be one stage faster. High Jump Kick with super high power and Blaze Kick with high critical ratio are perfect for a speedy Blaziken. Dual Chop is a decent coverage move to prevent Focus Sash from ruining the assassination.

    Crobat (M) @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Confuse Ray
    - Poison Fang
    - Haze
    - Aerial Ace
    Confuse Ray, an underrated Pokemon move, has brought so many Pokemon to their knees (if they have one, of course). Confuse them first, Poison Fang them until they get badly poisoned, then leave. Simple. Poison Fang is also useful for the annoying little Mega Sableye and its equally annoying Magic Bounce. Infiltrator is for someone who uses Scolipede with Baton Pass. Haze is to ruin someone's fun for using a Moody Smeargle. Aerial Ace is for STAB damage to any Pokemon who's weak to it. In Anything Goes battles, very few trainers use Stealth Rock, that's why Crobat learned Haze instead of Defog.

    Lapras (F) @ Quick Claw
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs: 188 Def / 252 SpA / 68 SpD
    Modest Nature
    - Freeze-Dry
    - Surf
    - Rain Dance
    - Future Sight
    People are so generous to give our Pokemon status effects, even if we don't want them. That's why Hydration comes in and breaks their bad habit. Water trainers will be annoyed with the presence of Freeze-Dry on the battlefield. Accuracy is more important than power, the same as tactics are more important than brute force. Believing this statement, Surf is better than Hydro Pump. Future Sight is for coverage.

    Heliolisk (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunder
    - Hyper Voice
    - Grass Knot
    - Electric Terrain
    Dry Skin. The desire for water has transformed Heliolisk into a devastating and agile basilisk in the rain. Therefore, Lapras' Rain Dance is useful for Heliolisk as well. Set up Electric Terrain, and start blasting opponents with Thunders of Oblivion. When a Ground Pokemon starts to ruin the fun, Grass Knot (for heavy Pokemon) or Hyper Voice (for light Pokemon) it.

    As you can see, there is a Blaziken in this team. That means this team is for Anything Goes and not OU battles. I tried to find a replacement for Blaziken, but to no avail. I really want to battle in the OU tier, because I'm so tired of seeing Darkrai. Please help me to make my team better.
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
  • 12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
    While Facade may seem tempting for Mega Altaria to ignore burn's Attack drop, it's not that useful in the long run because Mega Altaria won't get statused all the time. That, and Earthquake will be weakened. If you really hate status that much, a bulky version of Dragon Dance Altaria with Refresh, Substitute, or Heal Bell may be ideal:
    -Dragon Dance
    -Return
    -Earthquake/Refresh/Heal Bell/Substitute
    -Roost
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP/136 Def/92 SDef/28 Spe
    Item: Altarianite

    Regular Aggron is one of the worst Pokemon to use in the standard (OU) environment because while base 180 Defense is tempting, its bad defensive typing gives it common weaknesses to Water, Fighting, and Ground, the latter of which are 4x, which not even 180 Defense can save. If you want better Steel Pokemon, you have Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Heatran. They provide entry hazard support, have better defensive typings, and still are very bulky:

    Ferrothorn:
    -Stealth Rock/Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    -Power Whip/Protect
    -Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs

    Skarmory:
    -Spikes/Stealth Rock
    -Iron Head
    -Whirlwind/Taunt
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy

    or
    -Stealth Rock/Spikes/Defog
    -Brave Bird/Counter
    -Whirlwind/Taunt
    -Roost
    Nature: Impish/Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
    Item: Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Sturdy

    Heatran:
    -Stealth Rock
    -Lava Plume
    -Toxic
    -Taunt/Protect
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    or
    -Fire Blast/Magma Storm
    -Flash Cannon/Hidden Power (Ice)/Stone Edge
    -Earth Power
    -Stealth Rock
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Air Balloon

    If you don't believe me on why Aggron's defensive typing is bad, here are example calculations:

    252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 608-717 (216.3 - 255.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 324-384 (115.3 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (even Tank Garchomp's Earthquake OHKOs)

    Blaziken is an Uber Pokemon, meaning it can't be used in an OU team like this. If you want Fighting substitutes, you have Keldeo, Terrakion, and Breloom. Keldeo goes "mixed" with Secret Sword hitting physical Defense instead of Special Defense, Terrakion provides general raw power, and Breloom can put foes to sleep with Spore:

    Keldeo:
    -Hydro Pump
    -Secret Sword
    -Scald
    -Icy Wind/Focus Blast/Hidden Power (Electric)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Choice Scarf

    or
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Scald
    -Secret Sword
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    Terrakion:
    -Stone Edge
    -Close Combat
    -Rock Slide/Iron Head
    -Quick Attack/Iron Head
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Band/Choice Scarf

    or
    -Swords Dance
    -Stone Edge
    -Close Combat
    -Substitute/Rock Polish
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb

    Breloom:
    -Bullet Seed
    -Mach Punch
    -Swords Dance/Focus Punch/Rock Tomb
    -Spore
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash
    Ability: Technician

    Crobat isn't that good of a Pokemon because while it does have interesting support options, its bulk is kind of middling, despite being decent. If you didn't opt for Skarmory as an entry hazard setter, better Flying Pokemon to use are Gliscor (which can heal itself with Poison Heal), Therian Tornadus (which provides generally good offensive presence) and can heal itself with Regenerator, and Therian Landorus (a good revenge killer):

    Gliscor:
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Knock Off/Facade
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 244 HP/8 Def/200 SDef/56 Spe
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal

    or
    -Earthquake/Knock Off
    -Taunt
    -Toxic
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 244 HP/8 Def/200 SDef/56 Spe
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal

    Therian Tornadus:
    -Hurricane
    -Focus Blast/Superpower/Heat Wave
    -U-turn
    -Knock Off/Taunt
    Nature: Timid/Hasty
    EVs: 96 HP/160 SAtk/252 Spe (Assault Vest) or 76 Atk/180 SAtk/252 Spe (Life Orb
    Item: Assault Vest/Life Orb

    Therian Landorus:
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -U-turn
    -Knock Off/Explosion/Superpower
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf

    Lapras has a bad defensive typing, making it not ideal for a team like this. If you want a better bulky Water Pokemon, you have Manaphy (if you didn't opt for Keldeo, as both play similar roles; pure Water is a better defensive typing than Water/Ice; Ice pairing up with a type gives that type any of the nasty common weaknesses to Fire, Rock, Steel, and Fighting the pure Ice type is cursed with), Quagsire (Unaware stops setup sweepers in their tracks), Azumarill (a general hard-hitter), Wash Rotom (for Volt Switch support + a sole weakness to Grass thanks to Levitate), Slowbro, Slowking (for passive recovery with Regenerator for them):

    Manaphy:
    -Tail Glow
    -Scald
    -Energy Ball/Psychic
    -Ice Beam/Hidden Power (Fire)/Rain Dance
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    or
    -Calm Mind
    -Scald
    -Rain Dance
    -Rest
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/240 Def/16 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    Quagsire:
    -Scald
    -Earthquake
    -Toxic/Encore
    -Recover
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Unaware

    Azumarill:
    -Waterfall
    -Play Rough
    -Aqua Jet
    -Knock Off/Superpower
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 172 HP/252 Atk/84 Spe (Choice Band) or 240 HP/252 Atk/16 SDef (Assault Vest)
    Item: Choice Band/Assault Vest

    or
    -Belly Drum
    -Aqua Jet
    -Play Rough
    -Knock Off
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 92 HP/252 Atk/164 Spe
    Item: Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Huge Power

    Wash Rotom:
    -Volt Switch
    -Hydro Pump
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Pain Split/Rest
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/Chesto Berry

    Slowbro:
    -Scald
    -Psyshock
    -Calm Mind/Thunder Wave
    -Slack Off
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/232 Def/24 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator

    Slowking:
    -Calm Mind
    -Scald
    -Psyshock
    -Slack Off
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/188 Def/68 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator

    or
    -Scald
    -Future Sight
    -Fire Blast
    -Dragon Tail
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 248 HP/92 Def/168 SAtk
    Item: Assault Vest
    Ability: Regenerator

    While Heliolisk does have an admittedly good move pool, its physical frailty lets it down. If you want a better Water check, you have Latios, which hits harder:
    -Draco Meteor
    -Psyshock
    -Defog/Surf/Hidden Power (Fire)/Earthquake
    -Recover
    Nature: Timid/Hasty
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb

    or
    -Calm Mind
    -Draco Meteor
    -Psyshock
    -Surf/Recover
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb

    or
    -Draco Meteor
    -Psyshock
    -Hidden Power (Fire)/Defog
    -Trick
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf

    Looking at your team, I noticed you put in some questionable EV spreads. Fast sweepers benefit from max offensive stat of choice/max Speed. They benefit little from bulk investment, as their main goal is to hit fast and hit hard. For walls other than Wobbuffet, max HP takes priority, as this gives them better overall bulk.

    If you ever decide to make an Anything Goes team, Mega Rayquaza should be the first thing that springs into your mind, as it's the very reason why that tier was created in the first place. Not all teams will include it, but most do, as it's very stupidly good. Mega Rayquaza's lightning bruiser stats make it a threat; its signature Dragon Ascent leaves dents in anything that doesn't resist it (and even some that do provided Rayquaza gets Attack boosts from Dragon Dance and Swords Dance). It also doesn't need a Mega Stone to Mega Evolve; it only has to know Dragon Ascent. A good start for you in the format is to use Mega Rayquaza and find good teammates for it:
    -Dragon Dance/Swords Dance
    -Dragon Ascent
    -Earthquake/V-create
    -Extreme Speed
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Lum Berry/Life Orb

    or
    -Dragon Ascent
    -Extreme Speed
    -V-create
    -Waterfall
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Band

    or
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dragon Ascent
    -Earthquake/Surf/Fire Blast
    -Extreme Speed
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
     
    Last edited:
  • 2,107
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Seen yesterday
    First of all, you don't have to ladder for AG, just Ubers. AG is if you want to use Mega Rayquaza (and ignore a bunch of clauses).

    To make your team better, you need to refresh your mind and relearn the basics. Everything either has a terrible spread or a terrible moveset. Because you're battling on a simulator, I would suggest you replace your entire team except Mega Altaria, and build around that.

    If you're still insistent on keeping your members, then you'd have to play in Ubers, but here are some tips anyway (won't touch on Blaziken because you should remove it):
    - Run 252 Atk and 252 Speed on Altaria for offensive or run max HP and invest in defenses for defensive. Your spread makes no sense right now.
    - If you want Aggron to be a physical wall, then invest in HP and Defense, not Attack and SpDef.
    - Change Aggron's moveset. Smack Down, Payback, Iron Defense are all useless. Put Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave (or Toxic, or both) on.
    - Don't know what your Crobat's role is, but most people go for defensive (go for max HP max Speed). Get rid of Aerial Ace and Confuse Ray, and put Brave Bird and Roost or something.
    - Get rid of Quick Claw on Lapras. Get rid of Hydration and put Water Absorb. Also, get rid of Rain Dance and Future Sight, both are not very useful for you. I would probably invest all your other EVs into HP instead of defenses.
    - On Heliolisk, run max Speed and SpAtk. Run Life Orb instead of Leftovers, and get rid of Electric Terrain. Surf or Earth Power are good moves that it learns. (EDIT: I'm stupid and it can't learn Earth Power)

    I would suggest that you put your teambuilding on hold for now, and use some Sample Teams to try and learn the tier (OU) and learn what good teams look like.
     
    Last edited:
  • 14
    Posts
    7
    Years
    • Seen Aug 8, 2018
    Sorry for the long response, I was trying teams based on your advices. Here's what I got:
    1) I changed Aggron to Aegislash. There are simply too many Fighting and Ground moves, not even Aggron's defense can handle them.
    2) I know Lapras is slow, but Lapras is the best Pokemon to be able to learn Freeze-Dry IMO, so I didn't change her.
    3) My team is free of legendaries. Sure, I aim for the win, but winning without legendaries is an even more pleasant experience.
    4) Heliolisk can't learn Earth Power. I would have taught it instead of Electric Terrain if it's available.
    5) Heliolisk's Electric Terrain is changed to Dark Pulse.
    6) I still can't find a replacement for Blaziken (and now for Aegislash too). Ferrothorn is simply too weak against Fire IMO. So, until now, I'm still battling without Smogon rules.
    7) Crobat is the most annoying Pokemon in my team. Unless I find an even more annoying Pokemon, I won't change him.
    8) I'm not changing Hydration and Facade. They have saved my Pokemon so many times.
    9) I changed Lapras' Quick Claw to Leftovers.
    10) I changed some of the EV placements. Blaziken, Lapras, Heliolisk, and Altaria are more offensive now with 252 Attack (for Blaziken and Altaria) or Special Attack (for Lapras and Heliolisk) and 252 Speed, while Crobat is more defensive with 128 Defense, 128 Special Defense, and 252 Speed plus Jolly nature.
    11) I don't know what the best move to replace Future Sight is. Can you suggest one for me?
     
    Last edited:

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
  • 12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
    Sorry for the long response, I was trying teams based on your advices. Here's what I got:
    1) I changed Aggron to Aegislash. There are simply too many Fighting and Ground moves, not even Aggron's defense can handle them.
    2) I know Lapras is slow, but Lapras is the best Pokemon to be able to learn Freeze-Dry IMO, so I didn't change her.
    3) My team is free of legendaries. Sure, I aim for the win, but winning without legendaries is an even more pleasant experience.
    4) Heliolisk can't learn Earth Power. I would have taught it instead of Electric Terrain if it's available.
    5) Heliolisk's Electric Terrain is changed to Dark Pulse.
    6) I still can't find a replacement for Blaziken (and now for Aegislash too). Ferrothorn is simply too weak against Fire IMO. So, until now, I'm still battling without Smogon rules.
    7) Crobat is the most annoying Pokemon in my team. Unless I find an even more annoying Pokemon, I won't change him.
    8) I'm not changing Hydration and Facade. They have saved my Pokemon so many times.
    9) I changed Lapras' Quick Claw to Leftovers.
    10) I changed some of the EV placements. Blaziken, Lapras, Heliolisk, and Altaria are more offensive now with 252 Attack (for Blaziken and Altaria) or Special Attack (for Lapras and Heliolisk) and 252 Speed, while Crobat is more defensive with 128 Defense, 128 Special Defense, and 252 Speed plus Jolly nature.
    11) I don't what the best move to replace Future Sight is. Can you suggest one for me?

    1. What Aegislash set are you running?

    2. Lapras is still a bad Pokemon even with Freeze-Dry access. Even though Mamoswine has lower Special Attack, it can still make decent use out of Freeze-Dry, as it's faster and has a better offensive typing:
    -Icicle Crash
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Shard
    -Freeze-Dry
    Nature: Naughty/Naive
    EVs: 240 Atk/16 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Thick Fat

    The above EV spread allows Mamoswine to 2HKO Wash Rotom and Slowbro with Freeze-Dry after Stealth Rock.

    And if you want to have a bulky Water that can deal with other bulky Waters, you have Wash Rotom, as I already outlined above.

    3. Legendary Pokemon =/= competitive viability. There are legendary Pokemon that are terrible by competitive standards such as Articuno and Regigigas, the former for having a bad defensive typing and the latter for having one of the worst abilities in the game.

    4. I still don't recommend Heliolisk at all. What does Dark Pulse even do for it in the first place? Ghost and Psychic Pokemon are already hit hard by its Electric STABs. If you want a better Dry Skin abuser, there's Toxicroak:
    -Gunk Shot
    -Drain Punch
    -Sucker Punch
    -Swords Dance/Ice Punch
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Black Sludge
    Ability: Dry Skin

    If you're insistent on keeping Heliolisk, though:
    -Thunderbolt
    -Volt Switch
    -Hyper Voice
    -Surf/Focus Blast/Grass Knot
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Choice Specs
    Ability: Dry Skin

    6. A 4x weakness to a type isn't a reason to shy away from using a Pokemon, IMO. Ferrothorn's 4x weakness to Fire is made up for with its vast number of resistances to common types such as Water, Fairy, and Rock.

    7. If you're insistent on keeping Crobat, though, use Brave Bird or Acrobatics as its lone STAB move. Poison Fang and Aerial Ace are way too weak, while Super Fang and/or Taunt makes healthy walls cry, the former for halving the target's HP right off the bat and the latter for stopping threats from setting up with status moves:
    -Brave Bird/Acrobatics
    -U-turn/Toxic/Taunt/Super Fang
    -Defog/Taunt/Super Fang
    -Roost
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 248 HP/48 Def/212 Spe
    Item: Black Sludge/none
    Ability: Infiltrator

    8. I prefer consistency over situationality, hence Return > Facade. For Mega Altaria, it can just use Refresh or Heal Bell to cure itself of status (or other teammates with the latter). Rain teams are uncommon, and they don't warrant Hydration as a main ability.

    9. Some Pokemon prefer bulk over Speed. Slow and bulky Pokemon don't benefit much from Speed at all unless they aim to outspeed specific threats. Also, refer to the above Crobat EV spread.
     
  • 14
    Posts
    7
    Years
    • Seen Aug 8, 2018
    1) Aegislash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 Sp Def / 4 HP
    Moves:
    King's Shield
    Shadow Claw / Shadow Sneak
    Iron Head
    Sacred Sword
    Relaxed Nature
    2) With Thick Fat, Mamoswine might be a great Pokemon in my team, although I see an inconsistency in your moveset, and Mamoswine isn't a Pokemon that should learn Special moves because the high Attack stat will be wasted if you do so.
    3) Whenever there is rain, there is Heliolisk. Its Ability and moves are just perfect for destroying Rain Teams and Kyogre. Heliolisk's Dry Skin works pretty well because rain also helps it to use Thunder effectively. Grass Knot is a surprise attack for Ground (and even Water/Ground) Pokemon. They will never think that my Heliolisk learned Grass Knot. While Toxicroak's Dry Skin helps it recover health in the rain, it can't really make use of the rain since it has no moves that is boosted in the rain. I was thinking about Surf, too, because it's boosted in the rain, but since Water/Ground Pokemon are common in competitive battles, Grass Knot is a better choice. Heliolisk can also be used in conjunction with Lapras' Rain Dance.
    4) My Crobat isn't for 1-on-1 battle, that's why the Attack stat needn't to be so high, and it doesn't need to learn strong moves. Crobat is the main annoyer of the team. Therefore, the Speed stat should be as high as possible. My Crobat has so many use: First, status giver: Confuse enemies, Poison Fang them until they get badly poisoned, then leave. Second, Baton Pass destroyer with Haze. Third, Belly Drum and Swords Dance destroyer with Confuse Ray or Haze. The reasons why I don't just use Toxic instead of Poison Fang are Magic Bounce and Taunt, though the latter is rarely used against Crobat. Super Fang might be a nice addition to annoy Steel Pokemon even more. I'll consider adding it.
    5) You have no idea how many times my Lapras and Altaria have been status'd: About 6 to 9 out of 10 battles! Rain teams are uncommon, that's why I taught Lapras Rain Dance. Also, Rain Teams are uncommon, but Pranksters are not.
     
    Last edited:

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
  • 12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
    1) Aegislash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 Sp Def / 4 HP
    Moves:
    King's Shield
    Shadow Claw / Shadow Sneak
    Iron Head
    Sacred Sword
    Relaxed Nature
    2) With Thick Fat, Mamoswine might be a great Pokemon in my team, although I see an inconsistency in your moveset, and Mamoswine isn't a Pokemon that should learn Special moves because the high Attack stat will be wasted if you do so.
    3) Whenever there is rain, there is Heliolisk. Its Ability and moves are just perfect for destroying Rain Teams and Kyogre. Heliolisk's Dry Skin works pretty well because rain also helps it to use Thunder effectively. Grass Knot is a surprise attack for Ground (and even Water/Ground) Pokemon. They will never think that my Heliolisk learned Grass Knot. While Toxicroak's Dry Skin helps it recover health in the rain, it can't really make use of the rain since it has no moves that is boosted in the rain. I was thinking about Surf, too, because it's boosted in the rain, but since Water/Ground Pokemon are common in competitive battles, Grass Knot is a better choice. Heliolisk can also be used in conjunction with Lapras' Rain Dance.
    4) My Crobat isn't for 1-on-1 battle, that's why the Attack stat needn't to be so high, and it doesn't need to learn strong moves. Crobat is the main annoyer of the team. Therefore, the Speed stat should be as high as possible. My Crobat has so many use: First, status giver: Confuse enemies, Poison Fang them until they get badly poisoned, then leave. Second, Baton Pass destroyer with Haze. Third, Belly Drum and Swords Dance destroyer with Confuse Ray or Haze. The reasons why I don't just use Toxic instead of Poison Fang are Magic Bounce and Taunt, though the latter is rarely used against Crobat. Super Fang might be a nice addition to annoy Steel Pokemon even more. I'll consider adding it.
    5) You have no idea how many times my Lapras and Altaria have been status'd: About 6 to 9 out of 10 battles! Rain teams are uncommon, that's why I taught Lapras Rain Dance. Also, Rain Teams are uncommon, but Pranksters are not.
    1. Aegislash benefits more from offensive-boosting natures than defensive ones. Aegislash's EVs carry over between forms; for example, Aegislash's Blade forme can't benefit much from the Shield forme's Defense EVs, as it's very frail; this is why Aegislash has EVs invested in an offensive stat of choice so it can hit harder in Blade forme. Shadow Sneak is needed on Aegislash to give it revenge killing ability:
    -Iron Head/Shadow Claw
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Sacred Sword
    -King's Shield/Swords Dance
    Nature: Brave/Adamant
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef
    Item: Life Orb/Weakness Policy

    2. Despite its inferior Special Attack, Mamoswine is a fine user of Freeze-Dry; it's Mamoswine's most reliable option against Wash Rotom; Freeze-Dry also does more to Slowbro than Earthquake would. That, and the other users of Freeze-Dry (Aurorus, Delibird, Articuno, non-Mega Glalie, and even Lapras itself) aren't viable in my eyes. Don't believe me? See the calcs:

    16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 143-172 (47.1 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 174-211 (44.1 - 53.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 146-173 (37 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Yes, the Freeze-Dry attacks only 2HKOs, but hitting these Pokemon on the switch is key here.

    3. If you really, really, hate status, I highly suggest you give Mega Altaria Refresh or Heal Bell. The former gets rid of status problems for Altaria itself, but has more PP, allowing you to stall out Toxic or Will-o-Wisp, while the latter cures the party of all status problems, but has less PP, meaning you have to be conservative when using it. In Heal Bell's case, you have to know when to heal and when to set up/attack. If Mega Altaria is faster than the opponent, it can also use Substitute to block an incoming Toxic, Will-o-Wisp, or Thunder Wave, then set up with Dragon Dance as the opponent switches. On another note, Manaphy is a better Hydration abuser because of mono-Water not having a lot of common weaknesses.

    4. True, Toxicroak doesn't have access to Water moves, but it's still an effective user of Dry Skin. It doesn't matter if a Pokemon can't fully benefit from an ability or not as long as it can use it in some shape or form.

    5. The Crobat set I posted is more consistent for these reasons. On another note, it never had any Attack EVs in the first place; please look more carefully at it:
    -It can prevent opponents from setting up with Taunt (which also addresses the Baton Pass problem, as Baton Pass is a status move), followed by statusing them with Toxic (which always poisons the target, as from Gen VI onward, Toxic never misses when used by Poison Pokemon; remember that Magic Bouncing Toxic isn't much of an issue for Crobat, as it's immune to the Poison status condition) or whittling walls down with Super Fang, which has a higher impact than "annoying" them with Confuse Ray, which I don't recommend for the below reason.
    -Confusion is an unreliable status ailment, as it's easily cured by switching out.
    -Crobat has a stronger STAB option in Brave Bird or itemless Acrobatics if it has to attack. If you're using Super Fang, a common tactic is to use Super Fang on walls until they're within the KO range of either move.
    -Poison Fang is very weak and doesn't poison all the time. A 100% chance to poison with Toxic is better than a 50/50 with Poison Fang. Similarly, Aerial Ace is also a rather weak attack unless it's being used by Mega Aerodactyl, whose Tough Claws ability boosts its power to acceptable levels.
    -It has a reliable recovery move in Roost, allowing Crobat to remain in the game longer. The general rule of thumb in competitive battling is if a defensive/support Pokemon has access to a reliable recovery move, such as Recover and Roost, that move is mandatory. Most Pokemon can learn Rest, a full-heal recovery move, but it's not a reliable recovery move because it forces the user to sleep for 2 turns (unless the user is using Sleep Talk, a move not every Pokemon can use effectively).

    While Crobat is hard-countered by Mega Sableye, remember that you have other teammates to deal with it.

    If you hate Magic Bouncing Pokemon that much (the premier ones are Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie), I highly suggest you follow up with the Mega Altaria suggestions, for the reasons I already stated. Mega Altaria hits Mega Sableye super effectively with Pixelated attacks. While it's true that Mega Diancie's Fairy STAB hits Mega Altaria super effectively, Mega Altaria can win if it manages to set up a Dragon Dance:

    +1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 294-346 (121.9 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +1 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 214-253 (88.7 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after Stealth Rock)

    On another note, you need a Stealth Rock setter on the team, as Stealth Rock helps get chip damage on opposing Pokemon to make KOing them easier. Refer to the Stealth Rock setters I posted for options.

    If you're still not convinced about my arguments for Heal Bell/Refresh/Substitute and against Facade, here are quotes taken from Altaria's OU analysis. I have to admit, Substitute is rather prediction-reliant:

    Smogon said:
    Refresh and Heal Bell are alternatives to warding off status, with the former having more PP, allowing it to last longer against persistant status users, while the latter has much less PP in exchange for the ability to support its teammates.

    Smogon said:
    Substitute is a neat support move that protects Altaria from status as well as fatal attacks.

    Smogon said:
    Substitute requires more prediction, as Altaria then can't switch directly into status, but it yields great results when used on the opponent's predicted switches. In such a situation, Altaria can choose to either set up or hit the switch-in with Return while behind a Substitute.

    Smogon said:
    Facade can replace Return to take advantage of any status conditions Altaria has taken. However, it is greatly reliant on the opponent having status users in the first place, making it situational and somewhat contradictory with Heal Bell or Substitute.

    Smogon said:
    Facade benefits from any status conditions Altaria might have taken and is absolutely usable on any set that utilizes Return. However, it is overall very situational, not to mention weak and almost useless if the opponent doesn't happen to have a status user at all.
     
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  • 2,107
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    15
    Years
    • Seen yesterday
    1) Aegislash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 Sp Def / 4 HP
    Moves:
    King's Shield
    Shadow Claw / Shadow Sneak
    Iron Head
    Sacred Sword
    Relaxed Nature
    2) With Thick Fat, Mamoswine might be a great Pokemon in my team, although I see an inconsistency in your moveset, and Mamoswine isn't a Pokemon that should learn Special moves because the high Attack stat will be wasted if you do so.
    3) Whenever there is rain, there is Heliolisk. Its Ability and moves are just perfect for destroying Rain Teams and Kyogre. Heliolisk's Dry Skin works pretty well because rain also helps it to use Thunder effectively. Grass Knot is a surprise attack for Ground (and even Water/Ground) Pokemon. They will never think that my Heliolisk learned Grass Knot. While Toxicroak's Dry Skin helps it recover health in the rain, it can't really make use of the rain since it has no moves that is boosted in the rain. I was thinking about Surf, too, because it's boosted in the rain, but since Water/Ground Pokemon are common in competitive battles, Grass Knot is a better choice. Heliolisk can also be used in conjunction with Lapras' Rain Dance.
    4) My Crobat isn't for 1-on-1 battle, that's why the Attack stat needn't to be so high, and it doesn't need to learn strong moves. Crobat is the main annoyer of the team. Therefore, the Speed stat should be as high as possible. My Crobat has so many use: First, status giver: Confuse enemies, Poison Fang them until they get badly poisoned, then leave. Second, Baton Pass destroyer with Haze. Third, Belly Drum and Swords Dance destroyer with Confuse Ray or Haze. The reasons why I don't just use Toxic instead of Poison Fang are Magic Bounce and Taunt, though the latter is rarely used against Crobat. Super Fang might be a nice addition to annoy Steel Pokemon even more. I'll consider adding it.
    5) You have no idea how many times my Lapras and Altaria have been status'd: About 6 to 9 out of 10 battles! Rain teams are uncommon, that's why I taught Lapras Rain Dance. Also, Rain Teams are uncommon, but Pranksters are not.

    EDIT: got ninja'd

    Why are you running a bunch of garbage 'mons in AG? There are many Pokémon who can do each of your Pokémon's roles, but much better and with much more versatility.

    1) (I can't really comment on this, but seriously - are you building for OU or AG? AG doesn't really have a defined metagame as it is essentially just the banlist of Ubers, aka Mega Rayquaza and some clauses. If you aren't using Mega Rayquaza, then there's basically no point to build for AG. Sure you can play AG for fun with an unorthodox team, but it would be then unwise to ask how to improve your unorthodox team)
    2) Mamoswine can use Freeze-Dry in conjunction with Physical attacks. On PlatinumDude's set, attack is basically maximized. It's also running Earthquake and Icicle Crash, so it's not really "wasting" its high Attack Stat. Even with this set, Mamoswine does much more than what Lapras does, because Lapras is a garbage Pokémon in competitive.
    3) No rain teams run Heliolisk. Most rain teams run Swift Swim users such as Kabutops and Kingdra. The main reason that anyone runs Dry Skin on Heliolisk is to have a Water-type attack immunity. So get rid of Lapras and get rid of Heliolisk. It's useful in UU but will die very easily in higher tiers (especially Ubers and AG).
    4) "Annoyer"? Seriously? Confuse Ray is annoying, sure, but no one uses it because it doesn't do much else (it's very luck reliant). Also you don't have any recovery besides your item, which puts a limit on your "annoyance". Like, if you're relying on Confuse Ray to win, you might as well buy the lottery.
    5) Maybe run Heal Bell? Also because status-inducing moves are common?

    If you're going to ladder in AG, sure go ahead. No one really plays the tier and we can't really give you advice because we don't know it either. As I said earlier, if you want to use a bad/unorthodox team in AG, go ahead - but don't come and ask for advice on how to make your team "good" and then proceed to ignore all advice.

    If you actually want to build for OU, a tier which a lot of people play here, then listen to what people are suggesting. You're asking for help, but then just ignoring what people are telling you because you think you know what's best. What's the point in asking?
     
  • 14
    Posts
    7
    Years
    • Seen Aug 8, 2018
    Hey, calm down. I want to play in OU, but it isn't necessary for me. You may think that my Pokemon choice is garbage, but let me explain:
    1) Human is not perfect. What good things a person see may not be good for others. I'm asking but I'm not necessarily accept all the advices. I need to choose which ones are the best FOR ME.
    2) Isn't it better to use other moves instead of Freeze-Dry if the benefit of Freeze-Dry is only Water advantage? Mamoswine already has Icicle Crash for its main Ice attack and Ice Shard for an increased priority attack. Then, what's the point of Freeze-Dry? Not only it's weaker because it's a special attack, but also does less damage than Icicle Crash. Isn't it better to invest in a more useful move like Knock Off, Superpower, Body Slam, Iron Head, or Stone Edge? That's why I can't accept that Mamoswine's moveset.
    3) I simply can't stand Refresh or Heal Bell. They are a waste of a turn. When I waste a turn healing status effects, my opponent will just Ice Punch or Iron Head me.
    4) Based on my experience, the first thing that the opponent will do when they see Crobat is attack it with Thunderbolt, Ice Beam/Ice Punch, or Stone Edge. Therefore, Taunt is just useless for me. Confuse Ray might be full of luck, but it's a great choice if a Pokemon has strong Attack, but weak Defense. The point of using Confuse Ray is to stall the opponent so that I can land Poison Fangs with taking less damage. After succeeded in badly poisoning the opponent, Crobat will come back and be replaced by other Pokemon until it's needed again.
    5) I'm not with the Rain Teams, I'm against them.
    6) Substitute is great, if Altaria is slower and the opponent doesn't attack. What if Altaria is faster and the opponent keeps attacking? Substitute will just be a waste of health.
     
  • 1,225
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    18
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    • Age 29
    • he/him/his
    • Seen Feb 8, 2024
    I can't really tell what you have or haven't changed since your original post, but I will say Freeze-Dry is a perfectly viable option for Mamoswine. Without it, Mamoswine is easily walled by the plethora of bulky waters in OU. Yes, there are viable coverage options you could use instead like Superpower, Knock Off or Stone Edge. But you will need an answer to Quagsire, Gastrodon, Slowbro, Rotom-W, etc., on your team.

    Taunt is really important for Crobat. It gives Crobat momentum against Pokémon like Chansey and Ferrothorn which otherwise can use Crobat to set up entry hazards and possibly use Thunder Wave.

    When you use Heal Bell or Refresh, you are not wasting a turn. On the contrary, you may well end up buying yourself several turns if you clear the status on a forced switch. For example, you can switch Altaria into Dragonite, Latios, Latias, etc., all of which are forced out by Altaria, and clear status while they switch out.

    I don't want to beat a dead horse, but this team isn't viable in AG. If you aren't going to take advantage of the lack of Smogon-wide clauses in AG there's no reason to battle in AG. There is an extensive variety of Blaziken replacements - Keldeo, Infernape, Terrakion, Conkeldurr, etc. - that will make your team OU legal.
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
  • 12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
    Hey, calm down. I want to play in OU, but it isn't necessary for me. You may think that my Pokemon choice is garbage, but let me explain:
    1) Human is not perfect. What good things a person see may not be good for others. I'm asking but I'm not necessarily accept all the advices. I need to choose which ones are the best FOR ME.
    2) Isn't it better to use other moves instead of Freeze-Dry if the benefit of Freeze-Dry is only Water advantage? Mamoswine already has Icicle Crash for its main Ice attack and Ice Shard for an increased priority attack. Then, what's the point of Freeze-Dry? Not only it's weaker because it's a special attack, but also does less damage than Icicle Crash. Isn't it better to invest in a more useful move like Knock Off, Superpower, Body Slam, Iron Head, or Stone Edge? That's why I can't accept that Mamoswine's moveset.
    3) I simply can't stand Refresh or Heal Bell. They are a waste of a turn. When I waste a turn healing status effects, my opponent will just Ice Punch or Iron Head me.
    4) Based on my experience, the first thing that the opponent will do when they see Crobat is attack it with Thunderbolt, Ice Beam/Ice Punch, or Stone Edge. Therefore, Taunt is just useless for me. Confuse Ray might be full of luck, but it's a great choice if a Pokemon has strong Attack, but weak Defense. The point of using Confuse Ray is to stall the opponent so that I can land Poison Fangs with taking less damage. After succeeded in badly poisoning the opponent, Crobat will come back and be replaced by other Pokemon until it's needed again.
    5) I'm not with the Rain Teams, I'm against them.
    6) Substitute is great, if Altaria is slower and the opponent doesn't attack. What if Altaria is faster and the opponent keeps attacking? Substitute will just be a waste of health.
    1. Freeze-Dry is a legitimate option on Mamoswine because it lets it get past what Earthquake can't accomplish, namely Slowbro and Wash Rotom, as I already stated a couple times before. The former is only 3HKOed by Earthquake, while the latter is immune to Earthquake thanks to Levitate, and Freeze-Dry is the best way for Mamoswine to deal with them, as it 2HKOes both. Ice/Ground has good coverage together, so Mamoswine doesn't really need anything else. Mamoswine's move pool may be small, but it has what it needs to threaten things. Icicle Crash and Earthquake are its main STAB attacks, Ice Shard is for picking off weakened targets, and Freeze-Dry lets Mamoswine threaten bulky Water Pokemon that are weak in the Special Defense department. If you really must use other options on Mamoswine, only Knock Off and Superpower are worth it; the former gets rid of non-Mega Stone items and the latter nails a harder hit on Ferrothorn than Earthquake would. Iron Head and Body Slam don't add anything noteworthy to Mamoswine's coverage.

    Here are some more calculations on what Freeze-Dry can do:

    16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 426-504 (108.1 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 348-421 (81.6 - 98.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 214-253 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    -1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 160-188 (48.3 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    16 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 302-359 (91.2 - 108.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (hit this one on the switch if you can predict it; otherwise, Gyarados outspeeds you by one base point)

    2. Healing yourself of a status condition can make a huge difference. You only cure Altaria only if it's on something it can force a switch on. In this case, it can be on its fellow Dragons or on anything that can only threaten it with a weak attack. Remember that you have other teammates to handle Altaria's checks and counters before it comes in to clean up the rest of the team. The instant you feel that something has a coverage move that can threaten Altaria, switching is the best course of action. You can always bring Altaria in later once its threats have been eliminated.

    3. You use Taunt on defensive/support Pokemon. You never use it on Pokemon that are offensively-oriented. This is common sense in competitive battling. If you want Crobat to deal with walls, you just Taunt them to stop them from setting up, then Super Fang them until they're in KO range of Brave Bird/Acrobatics. Heck, you can even Super Fang the switch-in, then try to go for the finish with the offensive move of choice. I can't stress this point enough. Since Ghosts are immune to Super Fang, just let another teammate handle them. If you really must use bad poison, Toxic is the more consistent option, as it always hits when used by a Poison Pokemon. Confuse Ray is, and never will be, a reliable option for status because it's way too luck-based. Relying on luck is never a good strategy to fall back on in competitive play, as sometimes you can get screwed over in the possibility that the afflicted Pokemon succeeds in all their attacks during the time they're confused. Regarding Haze: Taunt and Toxic are enough to stop setup sweepers, the former stops them from setting up in the first place, while the latter limits how long the Pokemon can stay on the field to sweep.

    I'd like to direct you to Crobat's Smogon analysis: https://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/crobat/ It has the set and how to use it correctly.

    4. If you're running Substitute on Altaria, you might as well run Roost, as it replenishes Altaria's HP by 50%, which is enough for two more Substitutes. Remember that you only use it on a predicted switch. If you know that the opponent will keep hammering on Altaria, just switch out.

    Edit: semi-Greninja'd
     
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  • 14
    Posts
    7
    Years
    • Seen Aug 8, 2018
    Yeah, I agree with you two. My Crobat gets paralyzed sometimes, too. But, I think I will make a brand new team instead of changing the current team. I'm thinking about changing Altaria as the Mega Pokemon to another one. Thanks, anyway. I'll post my new OU team when it's ready. Feel free to comment.
     
  • 14
    Posts
    7
    Years
    • Seen Aug 8, 2018
    Hey, I'm back. This is my new OU team. (I'm still torn between some moves, so please choose which ones are the best moves in your opinion)

    Steelix (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Speed
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Gyro Ball
    - Dragon Tail
    Steelix is a much better physical wall than Aggron. With no double weaknesses, Sturdy ability, and max investment in Special Defense, Steelix is able to set up Stealth Rock without fail. I reduced Steelix's speed as low as possible to maximize Gyro Ball's damage. Dragon Tail is useful to phaze Calm Mind users. Steelix is also useful when someone is going to attack my other Pokemon with an Electric or Poison move.

    Drapion (M) @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant/Impish Nature
    - Poison Fang/Toxic/Toxic Spikes
    - Knock Off
    - Ice Fang/Brick Break/Aerial Ace
    - Fell Stinger/Cross Poison/Roar/Taunt
    My Drapion is rarely attacked with Special moves, so I see no point in investing EVs to Special Defense. Since Drapion's only weakness is Ground, and the most common Ground moves that are used competitively are physical, I think it's better to invest in Defense. With 252 Defense EVs, it's able to survive a STAB Earthquake from Gliscor that has 252 Attack EVs and Adamant Nature, and with Impish nature, Drapion is able to survive a STAB Earthquake from Landorus-T that has 252 Attack EVs and Adamant Nature. Poison Fang is the only damaging move that has a chance of badly poisoning the opponent. Toxic is a reliable status inducing move that cripples strong walls. Toxic Spikes will save me some turns (I don't need to lose a turn giving Toxic to opponents). Brick Break, Ice Fang, and Aerial Ace are decent coverage moves. Fell Stinger is great when finishing an opponent. Cross Poison is a powerful STAB Poison move. Roar is to spread Poison status if Drapion learns Toxic Spikes. Taunt is to prevent enemies from using any non damaging moves.

    Chandelure (M) @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hex
    - Clear Smog
    - Flamethrower
    Air Balloon and Flash Fire are useful when switching in. Will-O-Wisp is another status inducing move specially used against strong physical wall breakers. After status'd, Hex will finish the rest of the job. Clear Smog is to annoy Baton Pass users. Flamethrower is an accurate and powerful STAB Fire move.

    Altaria-Mega (F) @ Altarianite
    Ability: Pixilate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Facade/Return/Body Slam
    - Dragon Claw/Heal Bell/Dragon Dance/Cotton Guard
    - Earthquake
    - Roost
    Pixilate changes Normal moves to Fairy ones and powers them up by 1.3 times. Dragon Claw is a powerful STAB Dragon move. Heal Bell is useful to heal status effects, especially burn. Dragon Dance is to power up Altaria even more if the current power isn't enough. Cotton Guard raises Altaria's Defense by 3, which is useful when dealing with Iron Head and Ice Punch. Body Slam has a chance of inflicting paralysis. Return is the most powerful physical Normal move that doesn't need any special in-battle condition and doesn't have any risks at all. Facade is the best if Altaria doesn't learn Heal Bell. Roost is for recovery.

    Lapras (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Surf
    - Freeze-Dry
    - Rain Dance
    - Psychic/Ancient Power
    With Rain Dance and Hydration, Klefki can't beat Lapras. Surf is an accurate and powerful STAB Water move that is boosted in the rain. Freeze-Dry is an impressive STAB Ice move that has a unique Water advantage. Psychic and Ancient Power are reliable coverage moves. I know that Lapras is bad at typing, but it can survive all but the strongest moves that are super effective against it. With 252 Defense EVs, Lapras can even survive 2 Stone Edges from Gliscor with 252 Attack EVs and Adamant Nature.

    Heliolisk (M) @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid/Modest Nature
    - Thunder/Thunderbolt
    - Thunder Wave/Volt Switch
    - Hyper Voice
    - Grass Knot
    Air Balloon and Dry Skin are useful when switching in. Thunderbolt is a reliable and accurate STAB Electric move, while Thunder is a devastating move in the rain, but is less reliable than Thunderbolt in other weathers. Thunder Wave is another status move that slows even the fastest Pokemon. Volt Switch is useful to gain momentum. Hyper Voice is a powerful STAB normal move that goes through Substitute. Grass Knot is useful for Water/Ground Pokemon.

    What do you think? Please give me your opinion about my team.
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
  • 12,964
    Posts
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    Years
    I'm highly skeptical about Steelix's viability in OU. Yes, it has STAB on Earthquake. Yes, it has Dragon Tail. But I still think Ferrothorn and Skarmory are superior Stealth Rock setters because of their better defensive typings. Re-posting their sets below. Before you bring up Ferrothorn's 4x Fire weakness again, let me say this again: Ferrothorn has an excellent set of resistances to take advantage of to compensate for this. Mega Altaria can easily cover for Ferrothorn's Fire and Fighting weaknesses; it also covers for Skarmory's Electric weakness when Mega Evolved.

    Ferrothorn:
    -Stealth Rock/Spikes
    -Leech Seed
    -Power Whip/Protect
    -Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP/88 Def/168 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs

    Skarmory:
    -Spikes/Stealth Rock
    -Iron Head
    -Whirlwind/Taunt
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy

    or
    -Stealth Rock/Spikes/Defog
    -Brave Bird/Counter
    -Whirlwind/Taunt
    -Roost
    Nature: Impish/Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
    Item: Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Sturdy

    Drapion is questionable too. Yes, its only weakness is Ground, but I don't see much merit when all its stats except Defense are middling. Drapion's good Defense is pretty much wasted when it's weak to the common Earthquake. For this reason, I feel that Dragalge is a better replacement because of Adaptability providing it with a better offensive presence even without offensive presence. Gliscor is also worth considering if you still want a defensive Knock Off user and stallbreaker:

    Dragalge:
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Sludge Wave
    -Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
    -Scald
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 248 HP/232 SDef/28 Spe
    Item: Black Sludge
    Ability: Adaptability

    Gliscor:
    -Swords Dance
    -Earthquake
    -Knock Off/Facade
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 244 HP/8 Def/200 SDef/56 Spe
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal

    or
    -Earthquake/Knock Off
    -Taunt
    -Toxic
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 244 HP/8 Def/200 SDef/56 Spe
    Item: Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal

    While it may seem weird to give Gliscor a specially defensive spread, this allows it to deal with Clefable, non-Hex Gengar, and Assault Vest Therian Tornadus, examples of Pokemon that Gliscor does well against, better:

    252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 156-185 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

    0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 90-106 (25.5 - 30.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal

    160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 135-160 (38.3 - 45.4%) -- 59% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

    I don't like Chandelure in an OU team. It has simultaneous weaknesses to Stealth Rock and Pursuit, limiting its longevity on the field. This combination makes it easy pickings for Pursuit users such as Tyranitar. If you want a utility Ghost, you have Gengar. As weird as this sounds for an offensive Pokemon, it can run a utility set effectively because of the switches it forces. It also stops setup sweepers from setting up in the first place with Taunt:
    -Hex
    -Sludge Wave/Substitute
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Taunt
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 8 HP/248 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Black Sludge

    Dragon Claw is useless on Mega Altaria because Pixilated moves already hit Dragon Pokemon super effectively. Dragon Dance is also mandatory on physical Mega Altaria to make up for its average Attack (by Mega Evolution standards) and not-so-impressive Speed. Even if its bulk is uninvested, Mega Altaria still has decent enough bulk to get off a Dragon Dance before attacking. Return should be the main Pixilated physical STAB, as Body Slam is redundant with Dragon Dance's Speed boost and Facade is very situational:
    -Dragon Dance
    -Return
    -Earthquake
    -Roost/Fire Blast
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Altarianite

    As I already stated many times over, Lapras is a horrible Pokemon in standard. Yes, that set "beats" Klefki, but if you opted for Gliscor, Gliscor can easily beat Klefki by virtue of type advantage and immunity to Thunder Wave. Manaphy is a better Hydration abuser for its better bulk if you still want one of those. Refer to the above sets again. Before you bring up the legendary argument, remember that not all legendaries are viable enough in Ubers or even OU.

    As 5qwerty said, Heliolisk is terrible in OU because it dies to any decently powered physical attack. Wash Rotom is better because it has a natural immunity to Ground thanks to Levitate. Wash Rotom is also a way to deal with Talonflame, which would rip through this team otherwise:

    Wash Rotom:
    -Volt Switch
    -Hydro Pump
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Pain Split/Rest
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/Chesto Berry
     
  • 14
    Posts
    7
    Years
    • Seen Aug 8, 2018
    After seeing your opinion, I've gotten this:
    1) IMO Ferrothorn's presence is so predictable. The opponent will just send out a strong Fire Pokemon and Fire Blast Ferrothorn for good. Skarmory is less predictable, can learn Defog, and has Sturdy as its ability.
    2) My reason why I chose Drapion is because of the unique typing. Not only it has only one weakness, but also it's immune to Psychic and can remove Toxic Spikes from the field. Since I'm thinking about having Gengar on my team, I should think about Psychic moves, too. But, I think it shouldn't be much of a problem since Gengar outspeeds most Pokemon.
    3) When combined with some of your suggestions, this team lacks Fire and Ice moves, which are highly needed. I think I'm not changing Chandelure. I think I'll just change Clear Smog to Taunt. Wash Rotom will take care of the lack of Ice moves with Hidden Power Ice.
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
  • 12,964
    Posts
    13
    Years
    After seeing your opinion, I've gotten this:
    1) IMO Ferrothorn's presence is so predictable. The opponent will just send out a strong Fire Pokemon and Fire Blast Ferrothorn for good. Skarmory is less predictable, can learn Defog, and has Sturdy as its ability.
    2) My reason why I chose Drapion is because of the unique typing. Not only it has only one weakness, but also it's immune to Psychic and can remove Toxic Spikes from the field. Since I'm thinking about having Gengar on my team, I should think about Psychic moves, too. But, I think it shouldn't be much of a problem since Gengar outspeeds most Pokemon.
    3) When combined with some of your suggestions, this team lacks Fire and Ice moves, which are highly needed. I think I'm not changing Chandelure. I think I'll just change Clear Smog to Taunt. Wash Rotom will take care of the lack of Ice moves with Hidden Power Ice.

    1. I don't see Ferrothorn's 4x Fire weakness as a problem. You have Mega Altaria to cover for its Fire weakness.

    2. Gengar has no need for Psychic moves, since Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb/Focus Blast has excellent neutral coverage together. As for Drapion, a sole weakness to Ground means nothing when Earthquake is a very commonly seen attack.

    3. I'm still against the use of Chandelure for the reasons I stated. If you really must need a Fire move, use Talonflame over Chandelure, as despite the 4x Stealth Rock weakness, it puts in work with Gale Wings Brave Bird. I honestly don't think you need moves of every type on a team, as Mega Altaria's Pixilated attacks do a lot to Dragons already, a Fire move already handles Grass Pokemon, and any Fighting/Ground moves cover Steel Pokemon:
    -Swords Dance
    -Flare Blitz
    -Brave Bird/Acrobatics
    -Roost
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Sharp Beak/Sky Plate/none
    Ability: Gale Wings

    or
    -Flare Blitz
    -Brave Bird
    -U-turn
    -Steel Wing/Tailwind
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Gale Wings

    or
    -Swords Dance
    -Brave Bird/Acrobatics
    -Will-o-Wisp/Taunt
    -Roost
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/none
    Ability: Gale Wings

    or
    -Brave Bird/Acrobatics
    -Taunt/Will-o-Wisp
    -Bulk Up/Will-o-Wisp
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 248 HP/252 SDef/8 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/none
    Ability: Gale Wings
     
  • 2,107
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Seen yesterday
    After seeing your opinion, I've gotten this:
    1) IMO Ferrothorn's presence is so predictable. The opponent will just send out a strong Fire Pokemon and Fire Blast Ferrothorn for good. Skarmory is less predictable, can learn Defog, and has Sturdy as its ability.
    2) My reason why I chose Drapion is because of the unique typing. Not only it has only one weakness, but also it's immune to Psychic and can remove Toxic Spikes from the field. Since I'm thinking about having Gengar on my team, I should think about Psychic moves, too. But, I think it shouldn't be much of a problem since Gengar outspeeds most Pokemon.
    3) When combined with some of your suggestions, this team lacks Fire and Ice moves, which are highly needed. I think I'm not changing Chandelure. I think I'll just change Clear Smog to Taunt. Wash Rotom will take care of the lack of Ice moves with Hidden Power Ice.

    1) This is like saying every Pokémon is predictable because the opponent can just send out a Pokémon with a super-effective move and beat it. If they send in a Fire-type Pokémon, just switch out instead of eating the Fire Blast or whatever. That's why you have six Pokémon on a team and not one.

    2) There are many Pokémon with unique typings that are immune to other types of moves. Diggersby, Froslass, and Bisharp all have unique typings and are immune to Electric, Normal/Fighting, and Psychic/Poison respectively. If you're looking for a Pokémon that has only one weakness, Sableye and Spiritomb exist as well. What you need to understand is that having no weaknesses to less types doesn't mean that your Pokémon is stronger. Sure, Drapion is only weak to Ground, but it's still going to get destroyed by strong attackers. You may switch into Lati@s's Psyshock, but what do you have for a Draco Meteor if your Altaria hasn't mega-evolved yet? Also, why not just run a Stunky? It's immune to Psychic, and gets rid of Toxic Spikes, not to mention that it's only weak to Ground-type attacks. You can even make it level one since it still has those attributes.

    3) Changing Heliolisk to Rotom-Wash is a good idea. HP-Ice isn't too great on it, but it's better than Heliolisk.
     
  • 60
    Posts
    7
    Years
    After seeing your opinion, I've gotten this:
    1) IMO Ferrothorn's presence is so predictable. The opponent will just send out a strong Fire Pokemon and Fire Blast Ferrothorn for good. Skarmory is less predictable, can learn Defog, and has Sturdy as its ability.
    2) My reason why I chose Drapion is because of the unique typing. Not only it has only one weakness, but also it's immune to Psychic and can remove Toxic Spikes from the field. Since I'm thinking about having Gengar on my team, I should think about Psychic moves, too. But, I think it shouldn't be much of a problem since Gengar outspeeds most Pokemon.
    3) When combined with some of your suggestions, this team lacks Fire and Ice moves, which are highly needed. I think I'm not changing Chandelure. I think I'll just change Clear Smog to Taunt. Wash Rotom will take care of the lack of Ice moves with Hidden Power Ice.

    1) Funny coming from a guy who originally had Aggron. Sure Ferrothorn has a 4x weakness but so do a lot of competitively viable Pokemon. Ferrothorn's pros outnumber its cons. You wouldn't just leave a Dragonite in against a Weavile would you? Why would you leave Ferrothorn in against a Fire type? Ferrothorn isn't a sweeper trying to 1v6, it's used to check potential threats to the other members of your team.

    2) Drapion does have pretty great typing with only one weakness. You could even get rid of that one weakness by running Air Balloon! Except it's still a pretty weak Pokemon with underwhelming stats across the board excluding Defense. If its sole purpose is to get rid of Toxic Spikes without using a move and to wall Psychic types, it's a pretty big waste of a slot. I'd recommend replacing it with something that has hazard removal as half your team is weak to Stealth Rocks (Altaria pre-mega evo). If you do decide to run Gengar, replace Chandelure as well. Gengar will hit harder with Life Orb than Air Balloon Chandelure, has better speed, no Stealth Rock weakness, and better movepool.

    3) There are many Fire type Pokemon in OU and BL that outclass Chandelure as a Wall Breaker/ Special Sweeper. Entei, Victini, Volcanion, etc. are all Pokemon who hit extremely hard with better bulk and/or speed than Chandelure. For Ice type moves, Rotom-Wash with HP Ice is awful as it can already hit anything Ice can (minus Dragons) with its STABs. If you're in dire need of an Ice Type move, at least run HP Ice on a Pokemon with high Special Attack.

    You say you're trying to build an OU team yet you keep choosing Pokemon from lower tiers, often with inefficient sets. When you climb the ladder and can back up your opinions with results, people will listen to you. Right now all you're doing is building weak teams with little to no synergy and arguing that your choices are good.
     
    Last edited:
  • 14
    Posts
    7
    Years
    • Seen Aug 8, 2018
    1) Well, the fact is, no one uses Ferrothorn as a sweeper. So, when every good trainer sees a Ferrothorn, he knows that it is a Stealth Rock set upper. What if a Ferrothorn coincidentally meets a Fire Pokemon at the beginning (especially if someone loves to send out Stealth Rock set uppers first)? There are two chances: First, Ferrothorn is changed to another Pokemon that resists or is immune to Fire. Second, that Ferrothorn is doomed. About Aggron, well, people learn from mistakes, and I am no exception.
    2) You got that right. Even though I think that Drapion has a well balanced stats. And also, finding a good Pokemon that's able to learn Rapid Spin is hard IMO.
    3) "Entei, Victini, Volcanion"
    All of the Pokemon that you mentioned are legendary Pokemon. I want a fair battle. That's why I always forfeit a battle when I notice that the opponent uses legendary Pokemon. I aim for the win, but I'm not in a competition, where winning is an absolute necessity. I don't even care in what tier a Pokemon is, as long as it can make me win a battle, I'll pick it.
     
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