HM Slaves and Civil Liberties

[Shhmew]

Heh, I actually have thought about this before. I usually refer to them as "HM buddies", don't really know why, I don't exactly have a problem with the term "slave" being used. I just get a strange connection to my Pokemon, even the "slaves" and "HM buddy" just kind of stuck for me.

I read through some posts and while I do agree it's just a game and the Pokemon do not have feelings, this is an interesting topic to discuss, regardless. It seems to be more about what the individual feels comfortable referring to them as I guess.

I also agree that generally, the Pokemon community understands that calling pixels a slave is different and a smaller deal than referring to something breathing as a slave. It's kind of similar to the term "grammar nazi", except in that case you're labeling a breathing human. I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually offended by that term either, though.

All in all, I don't mind either way, no one seems truly upset about it as far as I know :3

 

[SadfaceSquirtle]

I'll have to mention that there are RSE playthroughs where my Zigzagoon slave is the Pokémon that I've had the longest.

 

[ZetaZaku]

I see no problems with using this term. Unlike my fellow team members, the HM slave is just one Linoone having four HMs on it, and I box it as soon as I finish the area that needs HMs.

 

[Venia Silente]

I think it's just much ado about people wanting to feel morally rightous and politically correct for intellectual circlejerking, which is pretty much the same as much ado about nothing.

It reminds me when back in my time where was a whole argument in the IT industry because people complained that the interface for multiple disks in computers assigned the terms "master" drive and "slave" drive, same as "master" database and "slave" database. In the end the circlejerkers won the first battle, and left the lasting harm of mistrust in the IT community towards the legalese and the ability to actually refer to things that has actually hindered the inclusion of other kinds of people in the discipline. Just search last year IT news for "donglegate" and you're golden. Or better yet, don't.

The truth is, maybe the term is derogatory by design and maybe people have to feel bad about it, but there is a reason behind usage of the term - its meaning (or whichever meanings it has that can be applied to the concept) fits better than the alternatives - for the people who introduce the term. And that, eventually, creates custom. This matters because we as a culture take and spread ideas from their originators without digesting and processing them much ourselves, so when we get around to see damage it is already too late for us to even mostly want to change things.

No matter what the complainers said there is no simple, single pair of terms that better describes the relationships between my disks than "master / slave" and, taken from the perspective of the games's world and implementation and the kind of people who put the forethought on it (ie.: competitives, smogonites, etc) there is no simple term that better describes the function of such mons in my team than "HM slave" - note that it could be taken to mean a slave to HMs, just as we sometimes say that big screen stars are "slave to PR"; not necessarily "slave to the player".

If another term naturally comes around thanks to the evolution of the language? By all means, I'm taking it. But forcing it down my throats just because the Token Ethnic Minority of the Week needs to complain for social equity? I have been well fed of it in the last 20 years to now having to take it in Pokémon, thanks.

 

[Aeroblast]

I think it's just much ado about people wanting to feel morally rightous and politically correct for intellectual circlejerking, which is pretty much the same as much ado about nothing.

It reminds me when back in my time where was a whole argument in the IT industry because people complained that the interface for multiple disks in computers assigned the terms "master" drive and "slave" drive, same as "master" database and "slave" database. In the end the circlejerkers won the first battle, and left the lasting harm of mistrust in the IT community towards the legalese and the ability to actually refer to things that has actually hindered the inclusion of other kinds of people in the discipline. Just search last year IT news for "donglegate" and you're golden. Or better yet, don't.

The truth is, maybe the term is derogatory by design and maybe people have to feel bad about it, but there is a reason behind usage of the term - its meaning (or whichever meanings it has that can be applied to the concept) fits better than the alternatives - for the people who introduce the term. And that, eventually, creates custom. This matters because we as a culture take and spread ideas from their originators without digesting and processing them much ourselves, so when we get around to see damage it is already too late for us to even mostly want to change things.

No matter what the complainers said there is no simple, single pair of terms that better describes the relationships between my disks than "master / slave" and, taken from the perspective of the games's world and implementation and the kind of people who put the forethought on it (ie.: competitives, smogonites, etc) there is no simple term that better describes the function of such mons in my team than "HM slave" - note that it could be taken to mean a slave to HMs, just as we sometimes say that big screen stars are "slave to PR"; not necessarily "slave to the player".

If another term naturally comes around thanks to the evolution of the language? By all means, I'm taking it. But forcing it down my throats just because the Token Ethnic Minority of the Week needs to complain for social equity? I have been well fed of it in the last 20 years to now having to take it in Pokémon, thanks.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Sopheria]

Something else worth pointing out is that all Pokemon in your possession are technically slaves. They can be HM Slaves, Battle Slaves, or Sit inside a computer twiddling your thumbs" Slaves. If you were a Pokemon, which would you rather be? At least the HM Slaves get some exercise without having to get bitten, poisoned, burned, electrocuted, tackled, scratched, bitten, and maimed.

HM slaves are living the good life compared to the others.

 

[Tek]

I think it's just much ado about people wanting to feel morally rightous and politically correct for intellectual circlejerking, which is pretty much the same as much ado about nothing.

Morals are, in my estimation, a subject deserving of serious discussion and debate. All the better that the conversation has relevance even in the make-believe world of Pokemon.

I don't share your rejection of political correctness as "intellectual circle-jerking". I find it practical, fulfilling, and enjoyable to give attention to the nuance of meaning within language.

No matter what the complainers said there is no simple, single pair of terms that better describes the relationships between my disks than "master / slave" and, taken from the perspective of the games's world and implementation and the kind of people who put the forethought on it (ie.: competitives, smogonites, etc) there is no simple term that better describes the function of such mons in my team than "HM slave" - note that it could be taken to mean a slave to HMs, just as we sometimes say that big screen stars are "slave to PR"; not necessarily "slave to the player".

If another term naturally comes around thanks to the evolution of the language? By all means, I'm taking it.

I nominate HM Buddy.

Heh, I actually have thought about this before. I usually refer to them as "HM buddies"...

Several people have pointed out that the HM carrier is an essential part of many teams, and a debt of gratitude is owed to any pokemon that has an HM move. HM buddy is more functionally fit than HM slave - it acknowledges that debt by affirming the pokemon's value, rather than enumerating its shortcomings.

But forcing it down my throats just because the Token Ethnic Minority of the Week needs to complain for social equity? I have been well fed of it in the last 20 years to now having to take it in Pokémon, thanks.

I've forced nothing down your throat, any more than I controlled your hands and made you type a scathing response to this thread. I am suggesting a way to think a little differently; I'm inviting people to listen carefully, and speak carefully. I'm not up in arms about the issue, nor am I in anyone's face and/or throat, because I'm not angry at the people who disagree with me. Your veiled insults - that I'm a self-righteous, whiny, crusader - are very poor form, sir, especially from someone who is clearly very sharp and intelligent.

Something else worth pointing out is that all Pokemon in your possession are technically slaves. They can be HM Slaves, Battle Slaves, or Sit inside a computer twiddling your thumbs" Slaves. If you were a Pokemon, which would you rather be? At least the HM Slaves get some exercise without having to get bitten, poisoned, burned, electrocuted, tackled, scratched, bitten, and maimed.

HM slaves are living the good life compared to the others.

Household pets and zoo animals live their entire lives in a state of captivity and obedience to their human owners. Sometimes we ask these animals to learn skills or do tricks to assist or amuse us. But we don't call them slaves. We call them pets, and companions, and we call them friends when there is mutual caring between pet and owner.

I should mention, I guess, that Pokemon can never be our friends in that same way because there's no interior space that is sufficiently complex; a pokemon, as far as we know, does not experience comfort, hunger, familiarity, fear, or any other emotion that mammals are capable of experiencing.

But really, pokemon are tough and many enjoy fighting other pokemon, trainer or no. And then there's the timid or non-combative pokemon. Not only do they not hesitate to fight for a trainer that they respect, they appear to enjoy the feeling of helping out however they can. For these reasons, I contest the idea that capture and battle are immoral aspects of the pokemon world.

 

[Venia Silente]

Sorry that you feel like I'm threatening or insulting when I'm merely describing how things are, YZN.

Nowadays with the internet and stuff, when some minor group of people raise to demand changes in every little thing, they create a wave of annoyance that tends to wash over any common sense and practicality for implementation of ideas in people. I've seen it a lot to simply ridiculous degrees, such as semaphore signs with "woman symbols" when the person symbol is intended to represent a verb (walk / stop), not a noun. I wouldn't want such silliness to trench itself into what is Pokémon by the fandom when the canon has already run through enough issues with it as well (Jynx colouration, anyone?).

And good thing that you propose a term. I am just saying I'm hoping it be let grow naturally from usage from its alternatives, instead of it being preached like a sort of One Sane Holy Word that one would have be some sort of stereotypical 70's racist to be against of.

 

[Tek]

I imagine I do sound a bit preachy at times, heheh.

I agree that political correctness can be, and has sometimes been, taken too far. Political correctness for its own sake is too often self-indulgent and too rarely productive or meaningful.

A previous poster asserted that the only way to get rid of the term HM slave would be to ban it from the forums. Such an action is precisely going too far, and besides that it doesn't really even address what I consider to be the important issue here. Such a ban would mainly engender frustration.

What strikes me is that so much of an average person's waking life is filled with unconscious behavior. Simply talking about the usage of the term HM slave is an invitation to think about, to be aware of, the intentionality one's words - or lack thereof. The idea is to create a clearing in which grace and thoughtfulness may arise.

 

[SadfaceSquirtle]

I think it's just much ado about people wanting to feel morally rightous and politically correct for intellectual circlejerking, which is pretty much the same as much ado about nothing.

If you're going down that route, I'd say this describes your post much better than anything else I've seen in this thread.

 

[Gigabeat]

Sure, if you didn't want to call it a "HM Slave" you could name it anything else that you wanted, maybe the term "slave" dosent convey the right message across. Or you could just use HMs on your Pokemon. Then again, every Pokemon does have a role to play in a team, and using HMs on certain capable pokemon to aid you in your journey shouldn't be a problem, as far as I know. Though not everyone may agree.