How do you feel about Same-Sex Marriage?

[Shining Raichu]

It may seem like I'm always just sitting here, clicking refresh on this thread. But I have today off, so this and Facebook is pretty much all I'm doing lol

I actually do believe they are a minority. They are just very hyped on what they believe and so they join into groups and make themselves heard. But if you actually go out and ask around or look at any thread like...this one for example, you will find they are not as common as they seem. That's just talking about Christians as a whole. Yeah there are several Christians but are they really a MAJORITY? Anti-gay Christians? Why are yall targeting "Anti-gay CHRISTIANS" lol why not just anti-gay period? How does a discussion about homosexuality always get christianity involved? It sounds like thats what makes the idea so popular. I'm not christian myself but there are tons of people who believe in "God" nine out of ten of em will say they don't have a problem with gays.

Anyways I'm not homophobic or a "gay hater" I'm just straight so do I like gays...I mean as a friend I guess lol. Do I think that same sex marraiges are right? Eh I don't know I'm not gay. I'll leave that up to the people who want to get married right? The question is do I feel strongly enough that same sex marraiges are wrong to the point that if I was at a wedding and I hear "Is there any reason why these two should not be married? Speak now or forever hold your peace" would I speak? That's the question right? No. Simple.

Christianity always becomes involved because unfortunately, Christianity is involved. It would be my dream for religion not to be involved in this issue at all, but it continues to invest itself in it. It is one of the main reasons for homophobia, or if not homophobia, then at least an anti-same-sex marriage position. It is more than a minority of people who, asked why they hold a stance against homosexuality, would reply with "because God says no". That angers me, because we as a society are past the point where something should be allowed or disallowed at the say-so of a deity that nobody can even prove exists.

It seems the only people who disagree with this, conveniently enough, are Christians who come here to defend the religion and make us think we're imagining things. There is a reason gay people still can't get married, if it's not coming from religion, then where's it coming from? Let me know, and I'll go attack that instead.

Regardless of whether it is a majority or minority who are 'anti-gay', homophobia appears in the Bible, within the very fabric of the religion itself. I won't bore you with specific passages, but if you were to have a look at the book of Leviticus, you'd be getting warm, warmer, hot. So while it would be nice to just attack homophobia in general, homophobia and Christianity are always linked. I'm not saying it's a happy scenario, but it's the way it is.

And just because 9/10 Christians will say they do not have a problem with gays, doesn't mean they don't. And it doesn't mean that if an opportunity to vote for same-sex marriage came up, those Christians would vote in favour of it.

 

[silence27]

I know the scriptures say homosexuality is an abomination and yeah you're right the two are always strung together but, to me, it seems a little redundant the whole christian vs. gay thing.

Homosexuality has been put down by several groups but the one that sticks out the most are the big bad christians.

They vote 'no'. Are they the majority? Well, if so, then what's the injustice? Majority rules. It is also not a happy scenario but its the way it is.
What do you plan on doing? Single handedly thwarting a complete way of life? A religion with a couple of arguments? How do you do that when, in a christian's mind, there is no argument? The Bible told em so. When you stumble in an argument they say it is because it is not God's will. When you come in strong they say you speak with a wise tongue but not the complete truth. Ha.
It's just all too much and there has got to be another way to support it without running yourself to death into a brick wall. You know what I mean?
Go to the kids? Hit em while their young? Lol.
Nah isn't that the same thing they did? Who's to say who's right and who's wrong? And who's to say who's opinion is better? Wether it be right OR wrong?

Believe it or not, gay bashing is NOT accepted in our society lol. There are sites dedicated to this people crying and hollering from both sides because in their hearts they absolutely know for a fact that they are right.
The only thing I can ask myself is put aside all the **** forget this that whatever in that moment in the wedding when he says speak now or forever hold your peace> would I feel strongly to the point I would object?

The answer would be no. I wish people would just put themselves in that situation and simulate it. What would they say?
Wether they feel it is right or wrong would they feel so strongly they would prohibit it right then and there on the spot?
Screw a pen n paper on this one.
Screw an argument
what would they say in that split decision moment? Probably nothing. Why? There are too many reasons to count but they all add up to one thing.
They don't feel strong enough to change it.

They aren't against it THAT much to that extent. What's the point of all this?

Nothin lol. Its not an eye opener i dont guess but it is my perspective for sure

so do i support gay marriage? No.

Do I think it is wrong? Not really I don't care.

Is it important? Yeah its pretty damn important.

But I just don't feel that strong about it.
Maybe that is the problem. Maybe it's not just christians.
maybe it is that even the one's who believe nothing is wrong with it just don't care. maybe the christians are married to their god and not enough people want to object.

Why would they after all? It's rude. Maybe the problem is too deep to really understand. Maybe we should all just live be happy with what we got. But then what happens when the other side takes advantage of that?
Thats a messed up question cause it ruins everything. But the christians have theirs. youll go to hell. Youll pay youll get what you deserve. Not you in particular but those that have done wrong.
I dont know if you are gay but are you directly affected by christians? As of today? And, if so, how are you affected? Marriage? Why would you be so offended of same sex marriage when it was religion that created marriage in the first place?
It seems like people as a whole have a preconception of what life should be and even those who claim to hate religion are affected by it without even knowing it. So in the end you are just hitting yourself in the nuts trying to obtain status in something that was created by the ones you are against. That's some crazy **** lol

Sorry for double posting but it just reminded me on another thread in here where people where switching pokemon in teams n a user said "An attack team all the way" That's whats all about isnt it? All i see is both sides attacking eachother. but when all you have is attack then all you have is literally "a tack" n although it may sting it is sharp it causes pain may even make a dent. Once you know its there it can easily be sidestepped. So instead of trying to attack the world why cant people understand they ARE the world? And nothing that happens is going to change that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having people disagree with a point of view as long as you have your own communtiy your own place to go and chill. Why can't everyone just go where they are wanted. It seems so simple. I guess it aint though. I don't know much but I know that for one person who is crazy enough to say it out loud theres gotta be at least a hundred more that agree but wont say it. That means even what I'm saying SOMEBODY out there agrees lol. Ill go hang with them. screw the rest right?

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I know the scriptures say homosexuality is an abomination and yeah you're right the two are always strung together but, to me, it seems a little redundant the whole christian vs. gay thing.

Homosexuality has been put down by several groups but the one that sticks out the most are the big bad christians.

They vote 'no'. Are they the majority? Well, if so, then what's the injustice? Majority rules. It is also not a happy scenario but its the way it is.
What do you plan on doing? Single handedly thwarting a complete way of life? A religion with a couple of arguments? How do you do that when, in a christian's mind, there is no argument? The Bible told em so. When you stumble in an argument they say it is because it is not God's will. When you come in strong they say you speak with a wise tongue but not the complete truth. Ha.
It's just all too much and there has got to be another way to support it without running yourself to death into a brick wall. You know what I mean?
Go to the kids? Hit em while their young? Lol.
Nah isn't that the same thing they did? Who's to say who's right and who's wrong? And who's to say who's opinion is better? Wether it be right OR wrong?

Believe it or not, gay bashing is NOT accepted in our society lol. There are sites dedicated to this people crying and hollering from both sides because in their hearts they absolutely know for a fact that they are right.
The only thing I can ask myself is put aside all the **** forget this that whatever in that moment in the wedding when he says speak now or forever hold your peace> would I feel strongly to the point I would object?

The answer would be no. I wish people would just put themselves in that situation and simulate it. What would they say?
Wether they feel it is right or wrong would they feel so strongly they would prohibit it right then and there on the spot?
Screw a pen n paper on this one.
Screw an argument
what would they say in that split decision moment? Probably nothing. Why? There are too many reasons to count but they all add up to one thing.
They don't feel strong enough to change it.

They aren't against it THAT much to that extent. What's the point of all this?

Nothin lol. Its not an eye opener i dont guess but it is my perspective for sure

so do i support gay marriage? No.

Do I think it is wrong? Not really I don't care.

Is it important? Yeah its pretty damn important.

But I just don't feel that strong about it.
Maybe that is the problem. Maybe it's not just christians.
maybe it is that even the one's who believe nothing is wrong with it just don't care. maybe the christians are married to their god and not enough people want to object.

Why would they after all? It's rude. Maybe the problem is too deep to really understand. Maybe we should all just live be happy with what we got. But then what happens when the other side takes advantage of that?
Thats a messed up question cause it ruins everything. But the christians have theirs. youll go to hell. Youll pay youll get what you deserve. Not you in particular but those that have done wrong.
I dont know if you are gay but are you directly affected by christians? As of today? And, if so, how are you affected? Marriage? Why would you be so offended of same sex marriage when it was religion that created marriage in the first place?
It seems like people as a whole have a preconception of what life should be and even those who claim to hate religion are affected by it without even knowing it. So in the end you are just hitting yourself in the nuts trying to obtain status in something that was created by the ones you are against. That's some crazy **** lol

Sorry for double posting but it just reminded me on another thread in here where people where switching pokemon in teams n a user said "An attack team all the way" That's whats all about isnt it? All i see is both sides attacking eachother. but when all you have is attack then all you have is literally "a tack" n although it may sting it is sharp it causes pain may even make a dent. Once you know its there it can easily be sidestepped. So instead of trying to attack the world why cant people understand they ARE the world? And nothing that happens is going to change that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having people disagree with a point of view as long as you have your own communtiy your own place to go and chill. Why can't everyone just go where they are wanted. It seems so simple. I guess it aint though. I don't know much but I know that for one person who is crazy enough to say it out loud theres gotta be at least a hundred more that agree but wont say it. That means even what I'm saying SOMEBODY out there agrees lol. Ill go hang with them. screw the rest right?

The scriptures don't say that homosexuality is an abomination. They only say that man-on-man action is an abomination. Homosexuals men who don't engage in that behavior and all homosexual women are in the clear.

 

[silence27]

well...thanks for calling me out on that...major flaw. But I think it's apparent of what the scripture implies no need to beat around the bush about it lol. Ive heard that one before it doesnt convince me n it doesnt convince christians either cause it's a strong passage its obvious what they are talking about. Thats taking things a little out of context cause if you read the rest of the bible and piece it together with that passage you will see it means homosexuality is not a good thing. I dont believe that personally but im just sayin that argument wont work.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

well...thanks for calling me out on that...major flaw. But I think it's apparent of what the scripture implies no need to beat around the bush about it lol. Ive heard that one before it doesnt convince me n it doesnt convince christians either cause it's a strong passage its obvious what they are talking about. Thats taking things a little out of context cause if you read the rest of the bible and piece it together with that passage you will see it means homosexuality is not a good thing. I dont believe that personally but im just sayin that argument wont work.

On the contrary. One of the most famous homosexual relationships in writing was the relationship between David and Johnathan in the Old Testament.

 

[silence27]

I see what you are saying and I don't understand why you are arguing because although what you say can be true...it can also be wrong. One could say maybe when he says his love surpasses that of a woman he is saying the old equivalent of "broes before hoes" haha maybe it was a bromance they were close like brothers to the point they were inseparable. People will find that it contradicts alot of what the rest of the bible says and they WILL rationalize it however they want. And so that puts you back on square one. Why do you want to play their game?

 

[Shining Raichu]

silence27, if you're so against people debating this issue, or if you don't care about it, then perhaps you shouldn't be involving yourself in the discussion. As it is, you're being a bit rude to the people to whom this does matter.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having people disagree with a point of view as long as you have your own communtiy your own place to go and chill. Why can't everyone just go where they are wanted. It seems so simple. I guess it aint though.

If only it were that simple. People's lives are affected by others' bigotry. Gay people are seen as lesser in the eyes of the law and your "shut up and just go where you're wanted" attitude won't change anything. We have to keep talking about it until there is no inequality left to talk about. If the proponents of gay marriage don't speak up just as loudly as those who are against gay marriage, then they will trample ALL over us.

The scriptures don't say that homosexuality is an abomination. They only say that man-on-man action is an abomination. Homosexuals men who don't engage in that behavior and all homosexual women are in the clear.

That doesn't make it better, though the clarification is appreciated.

 

[Nutella]

so do i support gay marriage? No.
Do I think it is wrong? Not really I don't care.
Is it important? Yeah its pretty damn important.
But I just don't feel that strong about it.

You're not making a whole lotta sense. What you're basically saying is this:

"I don't support gay marriage, but I don't think it's really wrong, I don't care about the issue, but it's pretty important and I don't feel strongly about it."

Sitting on the fence is fine, bro, but you could try sounding less stupid and ignorant next time! =D

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having people disagree with a point of view as long as you have your own communtiy your own place to go and chill. Why can't everyone just go where they are wanted. It seems so simple. I guess it aint though.

Ah, segregation! I don't agree with black people, so they should "go where they are wanted." Don't be silly, bro. Of course gay marriage isn't that simple. Why do you think it's being argued over for so many years?

 

[Livewire]

I will make myself clear. All of you, keep this civil and on topic, we don't need to invoke/bash scripture and/or cite every single judicial precedent on the manner. I WILL INFRACT ANY AND ALL OF YOU IF YOU CONTINUE.

CONSIDER YOURSELVES WARNED.
Carrry on~

 

[Oryx]

I dont know if you are gay but are you directly affected by christians? As of today? And, if so, how are you affected? Marriage? Why would you be so offended of same sex marriage when it was religion that created marriage in the first place?
It seems like people as a whole have a preconception of what life should be and even those who claim to hate religion are affected by it without even knowing it. So in the end you are just hitting yourself in the nuts trying to obtain status in something that was created by the ones you are against. That's some crazy **** lol

Marriage is a legal, binding contract that affects things such as whether a significant other is allowed to visit in a hospital. In some places, they're barred from seeing someone they may be in love with and may have been with for decades, because they're not married. You have access to each others' benefits. There are many legal, medical, and financial benefits to marriage (the legal marriage, not the religious one) that a same-sex couple is missing out on. I'm affected by some of my close friends being gay, and watching them have to deal with this. I can't just stand by and let them struggle without trying to help just because I'm not gay myself so I'm not directly affected. It's wrong.

No one's asking for religions to be forced to give same-sex couples a religious marriage. What they want is the rights and title that other couples get under the law. A legal marriage, complete with every right available.

Live_Wire: How is judicial precedent going off topic or bashing anybody? o_O It's not even inherently uncivil, just proof to back something up.

 

[silence27]

Seems like what I said struck a nerve...it wasn't meant to be rude n i think yall missed the point. But it's simple I'll go where I'm wanted no reason explaining myself here if all it will cause is problems.

 

[Livewire]

Live_Wire: How is judicial precedent going off topic or bashing anybody? o_O It's not even inherently uncivil, just proof to back something up.

The argument is more over semantics and interpretation of the law than the actual topic of said law. I was referencing the Christianity bashing, you misunderstand.

 

[Shining Raichu]

I don't see how anything we were doing was so wrong. Christianity is involved in this issue, and without subjecting the scriptures and the religion to due criticism (which I don't believe was that inflammatory, in fact I was priding myself on staying quite calm and on-topic), a lot of the pro-same-sex marriage argument isn't there.

I'm sorry if this is an inappropriate post, questioning a Mod or whatever, you can infract me if you like. But I spent a lot of time and energy here yesterday forming those arguments and I couldn't let it go by without at least defending myself.

 

[Nutella]

The Catholic Church simply refuses to perform a marriage ceremony for same-sex couples.

Which is fine; it's within their right to do so. I think so, at least. For me it's silly to villify the church to perform a ceremony that goes against their own beliefs. The argument is more about the legal viewpoint- what is the justification to refuse gays to marry? Why aren't they allowed to enjoy the same legal/marital rights as heterosexual couples?

Religion is just brought into the mix by the ignorant, because the truth is, there is no real justification, and people like to feel as though they have legitimate convictions because "society thinks so" or in this case, "a big ****ing organisation says so!!11!1!" Refusing gays to marry just because of a religious belief is a form of oppression- why should they have to be refused a basic couple's right just because somebody else's religion supposedly said so?

A life of celibacy is regarded as very holy in the Catholic faith. All clergy are required to take a vow of celibacy; whether or not they are homosexual. Celibacy is very healthy as it is the only surefire way to avoid STD infection and unwanted pregnancies.

Physically, it is technically healthy, but mentally, it is not advisable. It depends on your own take on it- if you're genuinely happy to remain celibate, then it is unlikely to affect your psyche as much, but if you're forced into celibacy, the results are not good. It's as Shining Raichu said.

It is one of the main reasons for homophobia, or if not homophobia, then at least an anti-same-sex marriage position.

Good that he noted it as one of. Think about how many members of parliament are Christian. They're not supposed to, but you can't possibly try to say that their own religious beliefs have no bearing on this decision!

Seems like what I said struck a nerve...it wasn't meant to be rude n i think yall missed the point. But it's simple I'll go where I'm wanted no reason explaining myself here if all it will cause is problems.

"Missed the point?" Well, I apologise for interpreting for your post for what it was: somebody that's clearly unsure with the topic at hand and attempting to debate with conviction, and shimmying side-from-side. I admit, I'm not the most polite person in the world, but you really did contradict yourself!

 

[Trigaradon]

It's fine.

Give me one good reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Ces soirees-la]

When this topic comes up anywhere, I am always reminded of a certain Family Guy episode that explains it perfectly.
It's one where she says something along the lines of;

If two people of opposite sex who don't love each other can get married, why can't two gay people who love each other get married.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

My personal stance on this is complete marriage liberation. That includes same-sex marriage, polygamy, and even marriages between post-pubescent teenagers and adults in some cases. Sure, many of us may have moral objections to those things. We have a right to hold those beliefs, and we even have a right to express those beliefs, but our personal morals shouldn't restrain others.

My objections come from the methods of implementing a liberalization of marriage laws. It boils down to a state's rights issue for me. I also am genuinely concerned about the rights or religious organizations and the parents of schoolchildren. I'll end my discussion of that there so it doesn't stray us off-topic again. I'm done discussing that aspect of it.

I just don't want people in this thread to think that I am against same-sex marriage. I am not.

 

[Nutella]

our personal morals shouldn't restrain others.

I definitely agree. It's essentially what politicians do. It's somewhat a fallacy to believe they represent what "we" think as a whole. At least, in Australia, it's that way.

I just don't want people in this thread to think that I am against same-sex marriage. I am not.

I certainly didn't get that impression. Who did?

 

[^SuitUp^]

It kind of grosses me out but if people want to let them.

 

[Shining Raichu]

It kind of grosses me out

I just feel I should point out that Neil Patrick Harris - who plays Barney Stinson on How I Met Your Mother and is therefore the inspiration for your username - is married (not legally, but for all intents and purposes) to another man, and they have twins together :)