I honestly believe Volcarona is a legendary Pokemon (Read the post before responding)

[No Worries]

Alright, well, I'm here to say that I really believe Volcarona is a legendary Pokemon. I know what you're thinking. That this is just another "OMG GUYZ VOLCARONA CAN BE SEENZ BEFORE A FIGHT LIKE LEGENDARIES !!1!" thing. But that's not what this is. I hope to provide much more than just that to justify my belief that Volcarona is a legendary Pokemon. This will be a somewhat long post, so please stay with me. I'l state my points below and I hope you enjoy.

1. Like all other stationary legendaries in BW and BW2, the message displayed when Volcarona is encountered is "Volcarona appeared!" instead of "A wild Volcarona appeared!" Seems a bit random if it isn't legendary, though I suppose you could liken it to Rotom having the legendary battle music in D/P/Pt.

2. Another point is that it has an overworld sprite and is interactable in the overworld. Note that Volcarona is not a weekly or obstacle Pokemon. And unlike weekly and obstacle Pokemon, it has a whole area specificaly dedicated to itself, with a special shrine room containing it at the end.

3. Volcarona was sought after by one of the sages of Team Plasma after the main story. It just seems interesting that they'd decide to go after a supposed "non-legendary" over all the other legendaries they could be after.

4. In Black and White, Volcarona is encountered at an extremely high level 70, which makes it the second highest leveled wild Pokemon in the game besides Kyurem (correct me if I'm wrong).

5. Only one is obtainable in the game (besides the Larvesta egg [in BW only] and breeding, of course).

6. Like the Swords of Justice in BW2, Volcarona respawns at level 65 if the Pokemon League is beaten after defeating it the first time. Although, Volcarona is at level 35 the first time, while the Swords are at level 45, likely because the wild Pokemon in Volcarona's area are weaker than the ones in the Swords' areas, if I'm not mistaken.

7. It's catch rate is in the range of the catch rates for most legendary Pokemon (most legendaries have a catch rate of either 3, 30, or 45). Volcarona, with a catch rate of 15, would be the only non legendary Pokemon besides the Beldum evolutionary chain to have a catch rate below 45.

8. Volcarona's signature move is Fiery Dance, which it learns at level 100. Volcarona and its pre-evolution, Larvesta, are the only "non-legendary" Pokemon to learn moves upon reaching level 100.

9. Larvesta takes the longest to go through a single stage of evolution than any other Pokemon, evolving into Volcarona at level 59. if Indeed Volcarona is a legendary Pokemon that can breed, it would make sense that GameFreak would want to make it hard and time consuming to obtain another one in-game. They even removed the free Larvesta egg that was given out in BW.

10. Volcarona, as a legendary Pokemon should, has some mythology and legends associated with it. It saved Pokemon during harsh winters and it replaced the Sun in ancient times when volcanic ash covered the Sun. Due to this, it was apparently revered and/or worshipped, seeing as how it had a shrine and it had an ancient painting of it right behind it in said shrine. So Volcarona saved both people and Pokemon of Unova from harsh winters and a Sun covered by volcanic ash, and was revered/worshipped in a shrine that one of the two founding brothers of the Unova region built. As such, Volcarona essentially saved Unova and, thus is pretty big in terms of Unova mythology/legends/history. By the way, doesn't the whole "saving Pokemon" thing bring to mind a certain other three legendaries this gen? But, you know, of course this thing is just your average regular Pokemon.

Countering the counter arguments:


Argument: "Volcarona can breed and it evolves from another Pokemon so it isn't legendary..."

Rebuttal: So just because no legendaries have been able to breed so far (which 2 have, actually) and none so far have evolved from another Pokemon, that means none can ever? GameFreak has broken patterns before, ya' know. First, they broke the pattern of legendaries having no genders with Latias and Latios. Then the next gen introduced Heatran, who broke the "rule" of legendaries having set genders, and Manaphy and Phione, who broke the "rule" of legendaries being unable to breed and reproduce in captivity. If GameFreak keeps going like this, the next logical "rule" to "break" is evolution.

Sure you can argue that Phione isn't legendary so there still would have been no legendaries beforehand who could reproduce more of themselves, not that it matters. But anyways, let'stake a look at Phione. It's banned from the "Battle" areas (Battle Tower, Battle Subway, etc.) while every single other Pokemon banned there is a legendary Pokemon (I could be wrong about that, though). Plus, it wasn't in the Sinnoh PokeDex in D/P, while all the other Pokemon not in the regional Dex in D/P were legendary Pokemon. Not only that, but Pokemon.com responded "yes" when asked if Phione was a legendary Pokemon (although the initial answer was "no", but was quickly changed). Phione was also included in the Pokemon Power Bracket, a competition where fans could vote for different legendary Pokemon. Now, the official guide for HeartGold and SoulSilver stated that Phione wasn't legendary, but that's one statement against all the other evidence, not to mention that it's one of those printed Pokemon books and guides, which are commonly filled with errors, and since they're final and official, it's rare that an updated version will be produced unless there's a great deal of errors, as was the case with the "Ultimate Pokemon Handbook" or whatever it was called. Either way, whether Phione is legendary or not is irrelevant, as there's no reason that Volcarona can't be the first legendary Pokemon to be able to both evolve from another Pokemon and breed more of itself. It seems like they're trying to make it easier and easier to get legendary Pokemon, similar to what they're doing with Shiny Pokemon.

Argument: "No legendary Pokemon music plays when Volcarona is encountered, though."

Rebuttal: Neither did any play for Cresselia, Latios, and Latias. Does this mean they aren't legendary? Or are Shaymin and the legendary birds from D/P/Pt not legendary either? Legendary Pokemon music even played for Rotom, who, according to Pokemon.com, isn't legendary, and it can also be traded for casually for a Ditto in BW and BW2.

Argument: "Some trainers in-game have Volcarona! Would they really just happen to casually have a legendary Pokemon?"

Rebuttal: Benga has a Latios and Latias. That argument is invalid.

Argument: "Volcarona's not banned from the "Battle" areas! How can it be a legendary Pokemon?"

Rebuttal: I guess that means the legendary birds, the legendary beasts, the legendary golems, the eon duo, the lake trio, Regigigas, Heatran, Cresselia, three of the Swords of Justice (Cobalion, Terrakion, and Virizion), and the Kami trio aren't legendary either...

Argument: "The legendary trio of each generation ALWAYS comes first in order of the legendaries in the dex. Volcarona comes right before Cobalion, like how Rotom came right before Uxie. It's not legendary."

Rebuttal: Well technically, the Swords of Justice are a quartet, not a trio. The Kami and Tao trios (the two legendary trios of this gen) come after those first three Swords of Juctice. Seems like GameFreak was switching things up a bit this generation, if you ask me. Assuming Larvesta isn't legendary and Volcarona is, Volcarona's placement could also have been to avoid putting a non-legendary Pokemon inbetween the legendaries. Then again, that didn't stop them from putting the Dragonite, Tyrannitar, Salamence, and Metagross evolution lines inbetween them, but last gen's supposed "Pseudo-legendary" Garchomp was far away from the legendaries, and this generation's "pseudo-legendary" Hydreigon, is just seperated from the legendaries by Larvesta and Volcarona, instead of being inbetween the legendaries, so it could be that GameFreak doesn't want to put normal Pokemon inbetween all the legendary Pokemon anymore. And if you want to bring Victini's PokeDex placement into this, just remember that Victini is actually not seperated from any legendaries, as it is placed right after Arceus in the National PokeDex.


Okay, well I think that's about it. Sorry for the long post, and I hope this is in the right section. :)

So do you guys think Volcarona is a legendary after reading this or just this generation's Rotom? I guess the only way to really know for sure is for either Pokemon.com or GameFreak to confirm whether or not it is.

 

[Zeffy]

It seems that you have put a lot of thought into this, even going as far as rebutting the counter-arguments. While yes, I agree Volcarona differs from wild Pokémon in many regards, I don't think a Pokémon should be called a legendary just because it is unique. I can't, however, dispute your belief because for one, it would be rude to do so, and two, you have laid down arguments that one just cannot debunk without knowledge of any official information.

 

[DelightedTurk]

I can honestly say I've never thought about this before reading this thread but wow you've put so much thought into this. While your arguments make it pretty hard to disagree, I don't think that Volcarona is a legendary Pokémon, I don't have any grounds really but I don't know why haha

 

[lmcde22]

I agree with what you've said but i still don't feel that it is. I can't explain but it's just not... special like the other legendaries are. It doesn't have the same feel as Mew or Arceus.

 

[Mithel_Celestia]

Volcarona can be considered a "special" pokemon if not legendary similar to Rotom is a special not legendary pokemon. Aside from that, it seems a bit too common for it to be like other legendaries where as the rest are restricted to at least one per region. The Black Skyscraper and White Treehollow can be considered a battle facility like the Battle tower and etc. which also have trainers that use Legendaries in higher consecutive wins. If whatever you're saying is possible, only Game Freak can confirm.

 

[moon]

I've thought about this some times :] After reading your post, I am even more confused and not sure of what I think really. Buut let's see now.

1. Like all other stationary legendaries in BW and BW2, the message displayed when Volcarona is encountered is "Volcarona appeared!" instead of "A wild Volcarona appeared!" Seems a bit random if it isn't legendary, though I suppose you could liken it to Rotom having the legendary battle music in D/P/Pt.

Not necessarily, as you say later on in your post, Gamefreak changes things now and then. Maybe they felt like changing this to make Volcarona special, but not necessarily legendary in the same sense as the pokémon featured on the game's front. Maybe it is too intelligent to really be called 'wild'?

3. Volcarona was sought after by one of the sages of Team Plasma after the main story. It just seems interesting that they'd decide to go after a supposed "non-legendary" over all the other legendaries they could be after.

In the anime, Team Rocket goes after Pikachu though 8D But then again, the TR trio in the anime can't really be compared to the slightly more serious teams of the games, I guess. Even so, if Volcarona is that strong and has that many myths about it, it isn't that weird that they would like to go after it. Strong, rare pokémon are always sought after by the 'evil' teams.

5. Only one is obtainable in the game (besides the Larvesta egg [in BW only] and breeding, of course).

Sort of how only one Beldum is obtainable in R/S? And Eevee in RBY/GSC? Unless I remember wrong, xD Again, that makes it special but not legendary.

9. Larvesta takes the longest to go through a single stage of evolution than any other Pokemon, evolving into Volcarona at level 59. if Indeed Volcarona is a legendary Pokemon that can breed, it would make sense that GameFreak would want to make it hard and time consuming to obtain another one in-game. They even removed the free Larvesta egg that was given out in BW.

I'll touch on why I think being able to evolve breed is a counter argument later. Being able to evolve shouldn't make it a non-legendary per default though, I think, so yeah.

10. Volcarona, as a legendary Pokemon should, has some mythology and legends associated with it. It saved Pokemon during harsh winters and it replaced the Sun in ancient times when volcanic ash covered the Sun. Due to this, it was apparently revered and/or worshipped, seeing as how it had a shrine and it had an ancient painting of it right behind it in said shrine. So Volcarona saved both people and Pokemon of Unova from harsh winters and a Sun covered by volcanic ash, and was revered/worshipped in a shrine that one of the two founding brothers of the Unova region built. As such, Volcarona essentially saved Unova and, thus is pretty big in terms of Unova mythology/legends/history. By the way, doesn't the whole "saving Pokemon" thing bring to mind a certain other three legendaries this gen? But, you know, of course this thing is just your average regular Pokemon.

I think there are more myths and stories about other pokémon too, I can't come up with some right now though. But yeah, many pokémon have stories of origins and things about them. Volcarona's story sounds pretty epic though, on par with the beast trio of Johto or even more.

I think a factor is - the Volcarona you find in the game, is it meant to be the same Volcarona that saved those pokémon long time ago? Or is it a descendant? Since they can breed and evolve and such, it doesn't seem like it is the very same one. Like Groudon and Palkia and those; they are unique and one single pokémon that has lived forever, sort of.

According to the anime, there exists several different Entei and Suicune and Raikou (we saw shiny ones in the Zoroark movie) but the anime hasn't always had the same interpretation of canon stuff as the games and other media. I have always thought that to be called a legendary, a pokémon had to be one unique being that never breed because well it's alone, there is no one to breed with!

So if that is a factor, I guess Volcarona is not a legendary in my eyes after all. But these points you brought up certainly made me wonder more, about Gamefreaks intentions :) Well written!

 

[Zeffy]

Sort of how only one Beldum is obtainable in R/S? And Eevee in RBY/GSC? Unless I remember wrong, xD Again, that makes it special but not legendary.

There's also Sudowoodo in Gen II/Emerald. Just throwing that out there ;)

 

[Amore]

Your point about Phione being banned from the Battle Towers etc. is flawed - it's because it's event-only, not because it's legendary.
Other than that, I can see how you have a point. Personally I'm not a fan of it, although it's super-powerful. But then again, that'd fit with most of the legends of BW :P
@Red's Hawt Chibi Pelippers: (omg I've only just realised its Pelippers, not peppers!) With regards to point 10 I think it's a descendent of the saviour Volcarona, and its had its own offspring in the form of the Alder's Volcarona, and his in turn bred, with the egg being given to that ranger guy in BW. And the Volcarona in BW2 is one of the two that the player out of BW came to own.

Overall, I don't think it's a legendary though, mainly for the reason that there's proven existence of at least 4 individual Volcarona (presuming the Larvesta from the egg evolves). Whereas all other legends there's only really been one proven existence of each:

Legendaries in RBYFRLG are released by Red when he goes to train on Mt. Silver, return to their locations (Except Moltres, who followed him for a bit, or perhaps he released it a bit late, or perhaps its habitat got destroyed in the alterations to Victory Road so it had to move). They then reappear in GSCHGSS. The legendary birds appear in Pt as Gold (GSCHGSS player) also released them. Or vice versa with Diamond releasing them - DPPt starts the same time as the Lake of Rage, but Cynthia's talk at Sinjoh Ruins suggests due to the length of HGSS that those events all happen before the end-game of HGSS.
RS/E are parallel universes of eachother, hence how Emerald has plot of both previous versions, so only one existence of each of those legends.

To be honest, I could go on...the only real anomaly to my theory of explaining why Volcarona isn't a legend via the multiple occurences theory is Regigigas. This because Regigigas triggers the appearance of the trio in Pt, who in turn unlock another Regigigas. I blame Arceus - thanks to his appearance in HGSS there are two of either Dialga / Palkia / Giratina running around, I guess he also created another Regigigas at some point too.

So in conclusion, I guess I disagree - Volcarona is not a legendary. But it is rare and has a backstory.

 

[TrainerDaniel]

I must say you have good arguments, but legendary Pokémon? There are only one of each kind. And i have seen many NPC trainers with Volcaronas

 

[No Worries]

Glad I got some critical thinking going, lol. Yeah, there are definitely some flaws in my theory, but at least it's a possibility. It really could just be GF pulling our legs again like they did with Rotom though. If so, it's pretty awesome that some Pokemon can be that special yet not actually be legendary.

Overall, I don't think it's a legendary though, mainly for the reason that there's proven existence of at least 4 individual Volcarona (presuming the Larvesta from the egg evolves). Whereas all other legends there's only really been one proven existence of each:

Don't Entei and Latias' PokeDex entries imply there are multiples of them? Or are we only counting in-game/canonical appearance of multiples?

 

[ORegan]

I think this topic all boils down to what world you are using to define what constitutes a Legendary Pokemon. For us, Game Freak states so, with some minor inconsistencies. What criteria it takes to pass is beyond me, so we can't really delve too much into the subject without using speculation.

But Volcarona is no doubt a legendary in some areas of the Pokemon world, but not a universal one. Just like how Slowpokes are legendary in Azalea town, and Arcanine is legendary in China(in the games at least,) some form of cultural has mythos that revere them as creatures to admire and awe at. Quite honestly, that's the best you can hope for.

 

[Turnip]

I think there are more myths and stories about other pokémon too, I can't come up with some right now though. But yeah, many pokémon have stories of origins and things about them.

I think Arcanine strikes me as a fairly similar case.

I still don't think Volcarona is really a legendary Pokémon as such, though it's been argued really well... to be honest, I'm not even sure why I recognise certain Pokémon as legendary any more. What kind of criteria did I use before?

I guess I more or less took it for granted before. It certainly is very interesting, though - what makes Pokémon legendary anyway?

 

[No Worries]

Just noticed that I made a huge mistake in one area of my opening post. There are tons of non-legendary Pokemon with catch rates below 45... *facepalm*

I think this topic all boils down to what world you are using to define what constitutes a Legendary Pokemon. For us, Game Freak states so, with some minor inconsistencies. What criteria it takes to pass is beyond me, so we can't really delve too much into the subject without using speculation.

Well, yeah. It's not legendary unless GameFreak says so. Afterall, the only real criteria for a legendary Pokemon is being officially recognized by GF as one. Although, my thread was mostly trying to get across that GF may very well have intended Volcarona to be legendary, but we won't know for sure until GF confirms it as one or not. But the more I think about it, the more it seems that Volcarona is just another "semi" or "false" legendary like Rotom and Snorlax. Appearing right before the other legendaries in the Dex, having high BSTs and being overworld interactable...

But Volcarona is no doubt a legendary in some areas of the Pokemon world, but not a universal one. Just like how Slowpokes are legendary in Azalea town, and Arcanine is legendary in China(in the games at least,) some form of cultural has mythos that revere them as creatures to admire and awe at. Quite honestly, that's the best you can hope for.

Yeah, but Slowpokes and Arcanine aren't technically legendary Pokemon in the sense Mew and Deoxys are, which are the kind I was referring to.

And I had no idea Azalea town revered Slowpokes that much. o___O*off to Bulbapedia*

I still don't think Volcarona is really a legendary Pokémon as such, though it's been argued really well... to be honest, I'm not even sure why I recognise certain Pokémon as legendary any more. What kind of criteria did I use before?

I guess I more or less took it for granted before. It certainly is very interesting, though - what makes Pokémon legendary anyway?

I'd say they'd have to be extremely rare/elusive, have myths or legends about them (not neccesarily though, as with Latios, Latias, Deoxys, etc.), and be extremely powerful (with the exception of Phione, if it's actually legendary). Honestly, if Volcarona is indeed legendary, it kinda does bring into question what makes a Pokemon legendary. Rarity, myths, extreme power, one obtainable in a save file, and no evolution all seem to be traits of legendary Pokemon, and any less than that would make what distinguishes this archetype from normal Pokemon hard to figure out.

I definitely see that as a problem with my Volcarona theory.

 

[ORegan]

Yeah, but Slowpokes and Arcanine aren't technically legendary Pokemon in the sense Mew and Deoxys are, which are the kind I was referring to.

Maybe not in the Pokemon World regions, but Arcanine's Pokedex entries clearly state that that it has legendary status in China(because China supposedly exists in the Pokemon world.) Also, his species name is the Legendary Pokemon.

If you're only looking for an out of game perspective, than Arcanine, Slowpoke, and Volcarona are not legendaries because GF said so as many*including yourself* have mentioned earlier. In universe, different cultures and customs consider different Pokemon to be legendary. Hell, Azalea's treatment of Slowpoke is akin to the Hindu belief that cows are sacred creatures who mustn't be harmed and allow the things to do almost anything they please in town.

 

[No Worries]

Just remembered something Rowan said. He said he was studying the effect of evolution and its relation to Pokemon, and how legendary Pokemon, which he stated don't evolve came into the mix.

All that writing for nothing, lol.

Maybe not in the Pokemon World regions, but Arcanine's Pokedex entries clearly state that that it has legendary status in China(because China supposedly exists in the Pokemon world.) Also, his species name is the Legendary Pokemon.

If you're only looking for an out of game perspective, than Arcanine, Slowpoke, and Volcarona are not legendaries because GF said so as many*including yourself* have mentioned earlier. In universe, different cultures and customs consider different Pokemon to be legendary. Hell, Azalea's treatment of Slowpoke is akin to the Hindu belief that cows are sacred creatures who mustn't be harmed and allow the things to do almost anything they please in town.

I know, but what I was implying was that they didn't meet the apparent technical requirements to be a legendary Pokemon. Even if China considers Arcanine to be a legendary Pokemon, that doesn't mean he is. It only means that they believe him to be, which, while it'd certainly be a Pokemon of legend, it wouldn't technically be the same kind of legendary Pokemon as Mew, Arceus, Yveltal, etc.

 

[ORegan]

I know, but what I was implying was that they didn't meet the apparent technical requirements to be a legendary Pokemon. Even if China considers Arcanine to be a legendary Pokemon, that doesn't mean he is. It only means that they believe him to be, which, while it'd certainly be a Pokemon of legend, it wouldn't technically be the same kind of legendary Pokemon as Mew, Arceus, Yveltal, etc.

This is the thing; you're only talking about legendary status outside of the game world and using a moniker GF uses to describe currently unbreedable powerful Pokemon(Manphy/Phoine excluded).

Arcanine may very well be incredibly rare in China to garnish that cultural legendary. It is entirely possible(but not likely) for the likes of Arceus and Mew to be plenty in other currently unknown lands and rare in the game regions. The same type of situation could extend to Volcarona, but relies on what source your looking at, Game Freak's official stance or using in-game mythos to paint a broader varied culture throughout the games.

 

[Pikayosh]

i totally agree even before I read this I've considered volcorona a legendary pokemon and I also consider a few other pokemon legendary as well

 

[No Worries]

This is the thing; you're only talking about legendary status outside of the game world and using a moniker GF uses to describe currently unbreedable powerful Pokemon(Manphy/Phoine excluded).

Except it's not just an out-of-game moniker. They're an actual archetype of Pokemon recognized in-game by PokeDex entries, Rowan (who describes one of the defining aspects of this "kind" of legendary Pokemon), and other NPCs. They're different from Pokemon described in legends because they not only have specific technical attributes that apply to all of them, but some don't even have legends (Deoxys, Latias, Latios, Mewtwo). So legendary Pokemon are different from Pokemon of legend. Arcanine also isn't legendary in China for its rarity, or extreme power, but for its beauty, as said in PokeDex entries. Legendary Pokemon aren't legendary because of legends about them, but rather, they have legends about them because of certaina tributes or behaviors of that species.

To be honest I don't really understand what you're saying though, so I guess we should just drop it. I hope not to come off rude by this, sometimes it's hard to tell with written text.