[Spoilers] I think it is pretty much confirmed that series is set in a different universe

[weedle_mchairybug]

Old characters don't need to return or be heard of or spoken about again. It is not mandatory and writers don't owe the fans anyway. SM anime series is canon to XY and the others. To believe it is not is just plain sad and false.

After what the 20th movie did (and unfortunately, thanks to that manga, we have to assume it's canon for the sake of the manga at least, as making a pretty clear tie-in manga non-canon defeats the entire purpose of a tie-in manga), they DEFINITELY need to give Misty and Brock at the very least a mention specifically to PROVE the 20th movie isn't canon. I know if I were the writers, I'd make SURE to have Misty and Brock mentioned in an episode of SM specifically to avert any ideas that SM is an AU if I didn't want that.

 

[Alexander18]

After what the 20th movie did (and unfortunately, thanks to that manga, we have to assume it's canon for the sake of the manga at least, as making a pretty clear tie-in manga non-canon defeats the entire purpose of a tie-in manga), they DEFINITELY need to give Misty and Brock at the very least a mention specifically to PROVE the 20th movie isn't canon. I know if I were the writers, I'd make SURE to have Misty and Brock mentioned in an episode of SM specifically to avert any ideas that SM is an AU if I didn't want that.

Sorry but no. Movie is not canon and the anime is canon to all seasons. We don't need a mention of any kind. SM is canon to XY and past. That is fact.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Sorry but no. Movie is not canon and the anime is canon to all seasons. We don't need a mention of any kind. SM is canon to XY and past. That is fact.

If it wasn't canon, they shouldn't even bothered with a tie-in manga to Movie 20 in the first place. None of the other movies did a tie-in manga between the anime and manga, not even Best Wishes, which came close to being a reboot for the anime prior to Sun and Moon's airing.

And if that's not enough, even Rica and the Sound Director indicated that it's a reboot, and they're pretty high up in the ranks, and I've seen plenty of examples of actors actually giving canon information about franchises (Malcolm McDowell when discussing his role as Mr. Lindermann indicated that he was like that because he had a bad childhood, and the second half of Volume 3 proved that much to be not only true, but a MASSIVE understatement.). And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have allowed Rica to mouth off that Sun and Moon was an AU if it wasn't actually that, not without very costly consequences for her (the actresses for the Village Lasses in the BATB 2017 live action remake were extremely reluctant to divulge their character backstory for the triplets they came up for themselves, to such an extent that they were unwilling to divulge it even when I made clear that I'd use it in a fanfic and make clear I'd note it isn't canon to Disney specifically because it wasn't officially sanctioned by Disney. If they wouldn't do that out of fear of being read the riot act by Disney for something like that, imagine how the production staff for Pokémon would react if Rica said those things and they weren't sanctioned by them). It's pretty obvious that SM is an AU. You're just in denial. And for the record, I don't like the idea of it being an AU either since I utterly hate mass retcons, but I've learned to accept it by now.

 

[Rad Dudesman]

Rica Matsumoto's words are a good example of "Word of Saint Paul".

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfSaintPaul

Once a work has been published to general acclaim, speculation runs rampant. What did X really mean? How could Y do that? How are we supposed to interpret Z? For some reason or another, the primary creator keeps quiet, so when someone else with at least some authoritative status to the work says something, it can be easily accepted and incorporated into the common view.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/WordOfSaintPaul

Word of God doesn't (or can't) confirm this, so someone with close connections does.

 

[Alexander18]

If it wasn't canon, they shouldn't even bothered with a tie-in manga to Movie 20 in the first place. None of the other movies did a tie-in manga between the anime and manga, not even Best Wishes, which came close to being a reboot for the anime prior to Sun and Moon's airing.

And if that's not enough, even Rica and the Sound Director indicated that it's a reboot, and they're pretty high up in the ranks, and I've seen plenty of examples of actors actually giving canon information about franchises (Malcolm McDowell when discussing his role as Mr. Lindermann indicated that he was like that because he had a bad childhood, and the second half of Volume 3 proved that much to be not only true, but a MASSIVE understatement.). And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have allowed Rica to mouth off that Sun and Moon was an AU if it wasn't actually that, not without very costly consequences for her (the actresses for the Village Lasses in the BATB 2017 live action remake were extremely reluctant to divulge their character backstory for the triplets they came up for themselves, to such an extent that they were unwilling to divulge it even when I made clear that I'd use it in a fanfic and make clear I'd note it isn't canon to Disney specifically because it wasn't officially sanctioned by Disney. If they wouldn't do that out of fear of being read the riot act by Disney for something like that, imagine how the production staff for Pokémon would react if Rica said those things and they weren't sanctioned by them). It's pretty obvious that SM is an AU. You're just in denial. And for the record, I don't like the idea of it being an AU either since I utterly hate mass retcons, but I've learned to accept it by now.

You are in denial. The SM series is canon to XY. Accept it or move on. It is pretty obvious SM is not an AU so accept that fact. I know what i am talking about. I would not listen to Rica or the sound director. Movie is not canon. The end.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

You are in denial. The SM series is canon to XY. Accept it or move on. It is pretty obvious SM is not an AU so accept that fact. I know what i am talking about. I would not listen to Rica or the sound director. Movie is not canon. The end.

No, I'm not in denial at all. Actually, I'd be in denial if I were to say that SM is still canon to the original anime, especially when I've made it very clear that I utterly HATE retcons, especially massive ones that destroy the story for no real reason.

And even you have to admit, it is at least a little odd that XY ended with literally no foreshadowing as to what would happen next. Most of the other shows when they ended had at least one element that clearly foreshadowed the next saga. The Original Series had Ash deciding to go to Hoenn alone by following Ho-Oh, and then Pikachu getting sick again and thus causing trouble that's set up for AG. The ending for AG had Ash deciding to go to Sinnoh at the advice of Professor Oak. The ending of BW had Ash deciding to go to Kalos upon learning that Alexa's sister is a gym leader there. Even DP briefly foreshadowed BW by having Team Rocket being called in by Giovanni to give them an assignment, and DP otherwise left no foreshadowing of BW at all, not even having Ash mention Unova. Sun and Moon literally had nothing foreshadowed in XY. Far from it, Ash just returned home, and made absolutely NO mention of Alola at all, let alone deciding to go there, and Giovanni didn't even bother calling in Team Rocket for a special assignment.

The only way to actually PROVE it's not a reboot (and believe me, I desperately WANT it to not be a reboot since I utterly hate that kind of thing) is to have it explicitly mention Misty and Brock being former companions of Ash. I know if I were the writers and I wanted to make sure everyone got it's not a reboot, I'd make sure there's at least one reference to Ash having traveled with Misty and Brock.

 

[Alexander18]

No, I'm not in denial at all. Actually, I'd be in denial if I were to say that SM is still canon to the original anime, especially when I've made it very clear that I utterly HATE retcons, especially massive ones that destroy the story for no real reason.

And even you have to admit, it is at least a little odd that XY ended with literally no foreshadowing as to what would happen next. Most of the other shows when they ended had at least one element that clearly foreshadowed the next saga. The Original Series had Ash deciding to go to Hoenn alone by following Ho-Oh, and then Pikachu getting sick again and thus causing trouble that's set up for AG. The ending for AG had Ash deciding to go to Sinnoh at the advice of Professor Oak. The ending of BW had Ash deciding to go to Kalos upon learning that Alexa's sister is a gym leader there. Even DP briefly foreshadowed BW by having Team Rocket being called in by Giovanni to give them an assignment, and DP otherwise left no foreshadowing of BW at all, not even having Ash mention Unova. Sun and Moon literally had nothing foreshadowed in XY. Far from it, Ash just returned home, and made absolutely NO mention of Alola at all, let alone deciding to go there, and Giovanni didn't even bother calling in Team Rocket for a special assignment.

The only way to actually PROVE it's not a reboot (and believe me, I desperately WANT it to not be a reboot since I utterly hate that kind of thing) is to have it explicitly mention Misty and Brock being former companions of Ash. I know if I were the writers and I wanted to make sure everyone got it's not a reboot, I'd make sure there's at least one reference to Ash having traveled with Misty and Brock.

You are. SM is canon to past seasons whether you like it or not. It is not normal to ignore facts. You actually need proof of AU but you don't. So this is the same universe. And no, we don't need references to past seasons as it is not mandatory.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

You are. SM is canon to past seasons whether you like it or not. It is not normal to ignore facts. You actually need proof of AU but you don't. So this is the same universe. And no, we don't need references to past seasons as it is not mandatory.

I'm not ignoring anything. Yes, we have Tauros being mentioned in SM001, but we still need something more concrete. We can't say that just because we don't see Ash capturing Tauros in the movie, that must automatically mean it's referring to the original series. We need more solid meat for this, especially after how Misty and Brock were replaced.

And I actually DID give proof for an AU, which is the tie-in manga for Movie 20 and Rica and that Sound Director's statements. Heck, Unown Lord mentioned the latter proof before I did and even provided direct links backing up his statements.

And considering the fact that I utterly hate retcons far more than even Ash losing a league in a crappy manner, utterly erasing the past, do you REALLY think I'd even entertain the possibility of Sun and Moon being a reboot if I was simply in denial of it being canon? NO! If anything, I'd actually WANT SM to be canon precisely because the idea of the show rebooting itself is a very bad thought for me.

 

[Piii]

You are. SM is canon to past seasons whether you like it or not. It is not normal to ignore facts. You actually need proof of AU but you don't. So this is the same universe. And no, we don't need references to past seasons as it is not mandatory.

No, I'm not in denial at all. Actually, I'd be in denial if I were to say that SM is still canon to the original anime, especially when I've made it very clear that I utterly HATE retcons, especially massive ones that destroy the story for no real reason.

And even you have to admit, it is at least a little odd that XY ended with literally no foreshadowing as to what would happen next. Most of the other shows when they ended had at least one element that clearly foreshadowed the next saga. The Original Series had Ash deciding to go to Hoenn alone by following Ho-Oh, and then Pikachu getting sick again and thus causing trouble that's set up for AG. The ending for AG had Ash deciding to go to Sinnoh at the advice of Professor Oak. The ending of BW had Ash deciding to go to Kalos upon learning that Alexa's sister is a gym leader there. Even DP briefly foreshadowed BW by having Team Rocket being called in by Giovanni to give them an assignment, and DP otherwise left no foreshadowing of BW at all, not even having Ash mention Unova. Sun and Moon literally had nothing foreshadowed in XY. Far from it, Ash just returned home, and made absolutely NO mention of Alola at all, let alone deciding to go there, and Giovanni didn't even bother calling in Team Rocket for a special assignment.

The only way to actually PROVE it's not a reboot (and believe me, I desperately WANT it to not be a reboot since I utterly hate that kind of thing) is to have it explicitly mention Misty and Brock being former companions of Ash. I know if I were the writers and I wanted to make sure everyone got it's not a reboot, I'd make sure there's at least one reference to Ash having traveled with Misty and Brock.

You are in denial. The SM series is canon to XY. Accept it or move on. It is pretty obvious SM is not an AU so accept that fact. I know what i am talking about. I would not listen to Rica or the sound director. Movie is not canon. The end.

If it wasn't canon, they shouldn't even bothered with a tie-in manga to Movie 20 in the first place. None of the other movies did a tie-in manga between the anime and manga, not even Best Wishes, which came close to being a reboot for the anime prior to Sun and Moon's airing.

And if that's not enough, even Rica and the Sound Director indicated that it's a reboot, and they're pretty high up in the ranks, and I've seen plenty of examples of actors actually giving canon information about franchises (Malcolm McDowell when discussing his role as Mr. Lindermann indicated that he was like that because he had a bad childhood, and the second half of Volume 3 proved that much to be not only true, but a MASSIVE understatement.). And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have allowed Rica to mouth off that Sun and Moon was an AU if it wasn't actually that, not without very costly consequences for her (the actresses for the Village Lasses in the BATB 2017 live action remake were extremely reluctant to divulge their character backstory for the triplets they came up for themselves, to such an extent that they were unwilling to divulge it even when I made clear that I'd use it in a fanfic and make clear I'd note it isn't canon to Disney specifically because it wasn't officially sanctioned by Disney. If they wouldn't do that out of fear of being read the riot act by Disney for something like that, imagine how the production staff for Pokémon would react if Rica said those things and they weren't sanctioned by them). It's pretty obvious that SM is an AU. You're just in denial. And for the record, I don't like the idea of it being an AU either since I utterly hate mass retcons, but I've learned to accept it by now.

Old characters don't need to return or be heard of or spoken about again. It is not mandatory and writers don't owe the fans anyway. SM anime series is canon to XY and the others. To believe it is not is just plain sad and false.

Ash's Tauros also apparently mattered enough for him to mention them to Lillie in SM001.

But yeah, at the least I'd say it's open for interpretation.

You can choose to either view SM as a follow-up to XY in the continuity or as taking place after M20.

Yeah, like Path to Power. And I don't care what the writers say: Any movie that neglects to have Misty and Brock in it at all, much less as major characters despite being set in Kanto is most certainly AU.

Sorry but no. Movie is not canon and the anime is canon to all seasons. We don't need a mention of any kind. SM is canon to XY and past. That is fact.

SM is canon to the anime and to the other past series. M20 is the only thing that will not be canon to the anime.

 

[Alexander18]

I'm not ignoring anything. Yes, we have Tauros being mentioned in SM001, but we still need something more concrete. We can't say that just because we don't see Ash capturing Tauros in the movie, that must automatically mean it's referring to the original series. We need more solid meat for this, especially after how Misty and Brock were replaced.

And I actually DID give proof for an AU, which is the tie-in manga for Movie 20 and Rica and that Sound Director's statements. Heck, Unown Lord mentioned the latter proof before I did and even provided direct links backing up his statements.

Those are not proof. Movie 20 is consider an alternate universe of the anime series. And no we need anything concrete. The SM series in canon to XY and older. That is fact so denying is pointless.

 

[Unown Seer]

There are two posters (with eerily similar style, if you know what I mean) in this thread that haven't said anything new for a good while and will keep passing off their opinion as fact no matter what the rest of us say. Just saying.

Rica Matsumoto's words are a good example of "Word of Saint Paul".

There really is a trope for everything, huh? Anyway, "Word of Saint Paul" is as good as it gets in this case. Gotta admire Rica for not keeping silence on the issue.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Those are not proof. Movie 20 is consider an alternate universe of the anime series. And no we need anything concrete. The SM series in canon to XY and older. That is fact so denying is pointless.

No, if SM series is canon to XY and older, they would specifically reference Misty and Brock in dialogue from Ash about having traveled with them before specifically to ensure audiences got M20 wasn't canon at all. And besides which, if Rica said those things and the writers didn't approve, whether it dealt with an AU or something else, there would have been severe consequences for her. I know this because the likes of Sophie Reid, Carla Nella, and Rafaelle Cohen actually indicated such was the case if they even divulged the backstory they created for the characters specifically BECAUSE it wasn't officially-sanctioned, not willing to divulge it even when I made clear that I only intended it for a fanfic and would have made note it wasn't actually canon.

And don't forget, this is the first movie to even feature an actual tie-in manga between the movie and the anime, which was unprecented by a significant degree. While the fact that the movie contradicts the original series does suggest it's not canon to it, the fact that a tie-in manga was released tying it and the SM anime together strongly suggests its canon to SM at least (which indirectly implies that SM is not canon to XY or any of the older series). And you still haven't addressed why it is that SM literally had no foreshadowing in any way during the last stages of XY, something prior series have had, even DP to BW had it in the form of Team Rocket being requested by Giovanni for a "special assignment," and before XY to SM, that was the transition that had very few foreshadowing elements.

SM is canon to the anime and to the other past series. M20 is the only thing that will not be canon to the anime.

What makes you think it won't be canon? Yes, the movie has a lot of contradictions to the original anime, meaning it's most likely not canon to the original anime. However, the movie also managed to do a tie-in manga between SM and itself, which is definitely unprecedented especially when, unlike most other animes such as Dragon Ball Z (where only two movies, three including Dead Zone, are actually canon, and that's only because those two "movies" actually acted more like back door pilots for Dragon Ball Super), the Pokémon Movies were generally assumed to be canon to the anime, if not from the specific events being referenced in there or specific locales being referenced, heck, even specific items being shown that characters only got in the movies and not in the anime such as Dawn's Lunar Wing, then at the very least due to Ash recognizing certain Legendary Pokémon that he encountered solely in the movies. That suggest that, at the very least, it's canon to the SM anime (not much point in doing a tie-in manga, if the movie isn't intended to be canon to SM, ESPECIALLY given how, unlike the other movies, there were quite a bit of contradictory elements that suggest it isn't canon at all), and by extension, SM is not canon to XY (and bear in mind that, unlike prior series, even BW to a certain extent, which usually had Ash going the next region, and thus the next series, actually foreshadowed and actually hinting at the next series in some form, there was literally nothing pointing to Sun and Moon).

Besides, it's not just M20 that's leading some of us to believe it, there's also what Rica and that Sound Director said as well (and if the writers didn't approve of what they had to say, at the very least they'd be brought to the office and read the riot act, at worst, they'd be fired).

 

[Alexander18]

No, if SM series is canon to XY and older, they would specifically reference Misty and Brock in dialogue from Ash about having traveled with them before specifically to ensure audiences got M20 wasn't canon at all. And besides which, if Rica said those things and the writers didn't approve, whether it dealt with an AU or something else, there would have been severe consequences for her. I know this because the likes of Sophie Reid, Carla Nella, and Rafaelle Cohen actually indicated such was the case if they even divulged the backstory they created for the characters specifically BECAUSE it wasn't officially-sanctioned, not willing to divulge it even when I made clear that I only intended it for a fanfic and would have made note it wasn't actually canon.

And don't forget, this is the first movie to even feature an actual tie-in manga between the movie and the anime, which was unprecented by a significant degree. While the fact that the movie contradicts the original series does suggest it's not canon to it, the fact that a tie-in manga was released tying it and the SM anime together strongly suggests its canon to SM at least (which indirectly implies that SM is not canon to XY or any of the older series). And you still haven't addressed why it is that SM literally had no foreshadowing in any way during the last stages of XY, something prior series have had, even DP to BW had it in the form of Team Rocket being requested by Giovanni for a "special assignment," and before XY to SM, that was the transition that had very few foreshadowing elements.



What makes you think it won't be canon? Yes, the movie has a lot of contradictions to the original anime, meaning it's most likely not canon to the original anime. However, the movie also managed to do a tie-in manga between SM and itself, which is definitely unprecedented especially when, unlike most other animes such as Dragon Ball Z (where only two movies, three including Dead Zone, are actually canon, and that's only because those two "movies" actually acted more like back door pilots for Dragon Ball Super), the Pokémon Movies were generally assumed to be canon to the anime, if not from the specific events being referenced in there or specific locales being referenced, heck, even specific items being shown that characters only got in the movies and not in the anime such as Dawn's Lunar Wing, then at the very least due to Ash recognizing certain Legendary Pokémon that he encountered solely in the movies. That suggest that, at the very least, it's canon to the SM anime (not much point in doing a tie-in manga, if the movie isn't intended to be canon to SM, ESPECIALLY given how, unlike the other movies, there were quite a bit of contradictory elements that suggest it isn't canon at all), and by extension, SM is not canon to XY (and bear in mind that, unlike prior series, even BW to a certain extent, which usually had Ash going the next region, and thus the next series, actually foreshadowed and actually hinting at the next series in some form, there was literally nothing pointing to Sun and Moon).

Besides, it's not just M20 that's leading some of us to believe it, there's also what Rica and that Sound Director said as well (and if the writers didn't approve of what they had to say, at the very least they'd be brought to the office and read the riot act, at worst, they'd be fired).

Stop it. SM is canon to past series and they don't need a reference to prove. Stop acting like that it is mandatory. It is not. Movie is not canon this time. Live with it.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Stop it. SM is canon to past series and they don't need a reference to prove. Stop acting like that it is mandatory. It is not. Movie is not canon this time. Live with it.

Ah, yeah, actually, references ARE mandatory, especially when most series, even BW and to a certain extent XY, utilized a whole LOT of references to the past. And considering that Ash at least used to do leagues, having to do the current league automatically requires references to the past, mentioning what rank Ash got in the prior regions. Other than Tauros and Charizard (and the latter's debatable largely because he has a Charizard in M20), we've barely got any actual references to the past (and Tauros is still in the gray area. We need more solid proof, not mere opinion. The news media also spouted off opinion during the 2016 election cycle about who was going to win, and look how THAT turned out). This is not the Simpsons which deals with negative continuity all the time, this is more like something like, say, Dragon Ball (only unlike Dragon Ball, the movies ARE actually canon).

And for the record, the topic is literally about whether the Sun and Moon series is set in a different universe, so I literally can't stop, not unless you want me to go off topic.

 

[Alexander18]

Ah, yeah, actually, references ARE mandatory, especially when most series, even BW and to a certain extent XY, utilized a whole LOT of references to the past. And considering that Ash at least used to do leagues, having to do the current league automatically requires references to the past, mentioning what rank Ash got in the prior regions. Other than Tauros and Charizard (and the latter's debatable largely because he has a Charizard in M20), we've barely got any actual references to the past (and Tauros is still in the gray area. We need more solid proof, not mere opinion. The news media also spouted off opinion during the 2016 election cycle about who was going to win, and look how THAT turned out). This is not the Simpsons which deals with negative continuity all the time, this is more like something like, say, Dragon Ball (only unlike Dragon Ball, the movies ARE actually canon).

And for the record, the topic is literally about whether the Sun and Moon series is set in a different universe, so I literally can't stop, not unless you want me to go off topic.

No it is not mandatory. It is a lie to say it is. Writers don't have to do anything for fans especially to you. Because you keep spreading false stuff, i am gonna click on ignore now.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

No it is not mandatory. It is a lie to say it is. Writers don't have to do anything for fans especially to you. Because you keep spreading false stuff, i am gonna click on ignore now.

I tried the ignore function once via a user named PDL on Serebii.net forums, that didn't work since it only resulted in my reading the posts anyways via the archive, so I suggest you don't do that.

And so far as whether references are mandatory, it's actually a lie to say it isn't. In case you haven't noticed, the writers would NEED to reference the past to even do Pokemon Leagues, since every Pokemon League mentions the current accomplishment (ie, the ranking he won the previous league) that Ash has. And besides, if references weren't at all mandatory for canon, please explain why they had Ash mention his Pidgeot to Falkner, why Ash's win at the Battle Frontier and especially against Brandon was mentioned to Paul in DP, why Ash has Misty's Lure and it played a central role to the episode regarding what would become Dawn's Buizel (and later Ash's Buizel), why Charizard even returned at all, much less aid Ash in multiple instances from Clair to the Johto League to Noland's Articuno to Brandon's third battle, to even the final moments of Best Wishes (and the latter even managed to have a full-on flashback explaining WHO Charizard was with reanimated sequences even). And none of those were even stuff fans requested or pestered the writers about. Heck, why would they even MENTION Ash's encounter with Lugia during the Orange Islands in the Whirl Islands arc? And why even BOTHER having May and Dawn reappear if references truly weren't mandatory.

So no, the fact that, Tauros aside (I'm not counting Charizard because M20 has Charizard in there as well), they haven't actually referenced the past in any meaningful way (and most certainly have yet to mention Misty and Brock being former companions to Ash specifically to offset M20) suggests, alongside that tie-in manga and some comments from Rica and that Sound Director, even how XY ended with absolutely no foreshadowing of Ash's next trek to Alola or even the Sun and Moon series itself, that SM was a reboot.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

We don't need past characters or pokemon to prove that SM is in the same universe as the others. SM is in the same universe as previous seasons. Alternate universes don't exist in pokemon anime.

Last week's episode of SM mentioned Mega Gyarados, so that means it still takes place in the same universe.

 

[Rad Dudesman]

Well there was this one thing referencing Sun/Moon in XY's final episode.

But it's just a little visual gag and not anything substantial like Ash preparing to go to Alola. In the actual series, it's just, Ash and Delia are suddenly on vacation in Alola and flashback to them winning the vacation while going shopping together and then fastforward to Ash dropping off five Pokeballs at Oak's before leaving.

 

[Piii]

No, if SM series is canon to XY and older, they would specifically reference Misty and Brock in dialogue from Ash about having traveled with them before specifically to ensure audiences got M20 wasn't canon at all. And besides which, if Rica said those things and the writers didn't approve, whether it dealt with an AU or something else, there would have been severe consequences for her. I know this because the likes of Sophie Reid, Carla Nella, and Rafaelle Cohen actually indicated such was the case if they even divulged the backstory they created for the characters specifically BECAUSE it wasn't officially-sanctioned, not willing to divulge it even when I made clear that I only intended it for a fanfic and would have made note it wasn't actually canon.

And don't forget, this is the first movie to even feature an actual tie-in manga between the movie and the anime, which was unprecented by a significant degree. While the fact that the movie contradicts the original series does suggest it's not canon to it, the fact that a tie-in manga was released tying it and the SM anime together strongly suggests its canon to SM at least (which indirectly implies that SM is not canon to XY or any of the older series). And you still haven't addressed why it is that SM literally had no foreshadowing in any way during the last stages of XY, something prior series have had, even DP to BW had it in the form of Team Rocket being requested by Giovanni for a "special assignment," and before XY to SM, that was the transition that had very few foreshadowing elements.



What makes you think it won't be canon? Yes, the movie has a lot of contradictions to the original anime, meaning it's most likely not canon to the original anime. However, the movie also managed to do a tie-in manga between SM and itself, which is definitely unprecedented especially when, unlike most other animes such as Dragon Ball Z (where only two movies, three including Dead Zone, are actually canon, and that's only because those two "movies" actually acted more like back door pilots for Dragon Ball Super), the Pokémon Movies were generally assumed to be canon to the anime, if not from the specific events being referenced in there or specific locales being referenced, heck, even specific items being shown that characters only got in the movies and not in the anime such as Dawn's Lunar Wing, then at the very least due to Ash recognizing certain Legendary Pokémon that he encountered solely in the movies. That suggest that, at the very least, it's canon to the SM anime (not much point in doing a tie-in manga, if the movie isn't intended to be canon to SM, ESPECIALLY given how, unlike the other movies, there were quite a bit of contradictory elements that suggest it isn't canon at all), and by extension, SM is not canon to XY (and bear in mind that, unlike prior series, even BW to a certain extent, which usually had Ash going the next region, and thus the next series, actually foreshadowed and actually hinting at the next series in some form, there was literally nothing pointing to Sun and Moon).

Besides, it's not just M20 that's leading some of us to believe it, there's also what Rica and that Sound Director said as well (and if the writers didn't approve of what they had to say, at the very least they'd be brought to the office and read the riot act, at worst, they'd be fired).

SM is atleast canon to the anime because Ash and his Mom were seen leaving Kanto for the Alola region. M20 will not be canon to the anime and i doubt that it will.

 

[Alexander18]

I tried the ignore function once via a user named PDL on Serebii.net forums, that didn't work since it only resulted in my reading the posts anyways via the archive, so I suggest you don't do that.

And so far as whether references are mandatory, it's actually a lie to say it isn't. In case you haven't noticed, the writers would NEED to reference the past to even do Pokemon Leagues, since every Pokemon League mentions the current accomplishment (ie, the ranking he won the previous league) that Ash has. And besides, if references weren't at all mandatory for canon, please explain why they had Ash mention his Pidgeot to Falkner, why Ash's win at the Battle Frontier and especially against Brandon was mentioned to Paul in DP, why Ash has Misty's Lure and it played a central role to the episode regarding what would become Dawn's Buizel (and later Ash's Buizel), why Charizard even returned at all, much less aid Ash in multiple instances from Clair to the Johto League to Noland's Articuno to Brandon's third battle, to even the final moments of Best Wishes (and the latter even managed to have a full-on flashback explaining WHO Charizard was with reanimated sequences even). And none of those were even stuff fans requested or pestered the writers about. Heck, why would they even MENTION Ash's encounter with Lugia during the Orange Islands in the Whirl Islands arc? And why even BOTHER having May and Dawn reappear if references truly weren't mandatory.

So no, the fact that, Tauros aside (I'm not counting Charizard because M20 has Charizard in there as well), they haven't actually referenced the past in any meaningful way (and most certainly have yet to mention Misty and Brock being former companions to Ash specifically to offset M20) suggests, alongside that tie-in manga and some comments from Rica and that Sound Director, even how XY ended with absolutely no foreshadowing of Ash's next trek to Alola or even the Sun and Moon series itself, that SM was a reboot.

No they don't. They don't have to reference things everything. You are the one lying. Stop annoying me. I know what i am saying. SM anime is canon to past seasons. That is fact. Accept it or don't watch the show because you are clearly not watching it properly in my opinion. Stop replying to me if you are gonna disagree every time.