Is Pokemon getting worse?

[tetrahedronX900]

I mean gen 9 has a motorcycle lizards is it a sign that pokemon are getting worse since gen 5?

 

[KalloFox34]

I think that Gen 5 was inherently going to have some designs be better than others due to the sheer number of new Pokémon introduced that gen. There are some really good designs like Bisharp and Haxorus, but also some pretty bad ones like Garbodor and Emboar. Gen 6 only introduced about half the new Pokémon that 5 did, but it was also a mixed bag. Gen 7 introduced a lot of designs I really didn't like. Gen 8 designs had a few issues, but I maintain that it has some of the best-looking Pokémon in a while. As for Gen 9, I don't really know what to feel. Not many Pokémon have been revealed yet, but I don't care for much of what has been revealed other than Sprigatito and Smoliv. Of course, that could change once we get the whole picture.

EDIT: I guess as long as people are talking about the franchise's quality in general, I might as well throw in my two cents for that as well.

While Gens 3 and 7 were weak points for the franchise (in my opinion) and nothing has really topped Platinum on my list, I don't believe it's dipped in quality. The games have their problems, sure, but a good number of them (e.g. low difficulty, weak storylines) have been there since its inception. BDSP may have been a bit disappointing, but SS and PLA were my favorite entries in a good while and I'm looking forward to SV from what has been revealed of it.

 

[Devalue]

Ran an official poll in 2020. Named Greninja (Generation 6) as #1, Mimikyu (Generation 7) as #3, Sylveon (Generation 6) as #6. Lists more in the top 30. Produced some popular Pokemon since Generation 5, clearly.

Admits to being no fan of most of the revealed Pokemon so far, minus Sprigatito and maybe Fuecoco. Dislikes Pokemon designed to be a tool first and foremost. (May make an exception if made by humans.) Advises waiting for the full roster. Could have made some knockout final evolutions...or some Simisears.

 

[ReKoil]

Every gen has both awesome mons and total duds, no matter one's preferences. The ones I consider duds will be considered favorite by others. Tastes differ after all.
There's no real decline nor can any gen unanimously be considered the peak.

I'll admit I'm not particularly smitten with what I've seen so far for gen 9. But I'm confident I'll see enough mons I love while playing it once it's out.

 

[Corveone]

We have yet to officially establish what's the actual criteria to determine whether a Pokémon design is bad, or worse than others. So it's a very subjective topic.

Every gen has some popular, and some less popular designs. Some people will instantly fall in love for cute-looking mons, some will prefer those that look strong and badass, etc.

Generally speaking, Pokémon that are too humanoid, object-based Pokémon, and multi-head mons are not among the most popular ones as far as I know, which doesn't mean they're necessarily all bad designs.

 

[Palamon]

Not really? It's very hard to say Pokemon is getting worse with that criteria.

Pokemon is doing fine.

 

[Orion☆]

I'd be inclined to say yes on my end, because outside of the aforementioned Cyclizar, Miraidon and Fuecoco (and Paldean Wooper), none of the Gen IX Pokémon have appealed to me so far.

Nevertheless, I can see why other would find the designs charming. I know that ScaVio represents a change in art direction for the franchise, so perhaps it's not just my cup of tea. I don't have much faith that I'll find most of this Generation's designs charming, but I won't hold it against those who do. In the meanwhile, I'll just hope for the best.

 

[colours]

it depends on who you ask.

i mean, that's... what it comes down to, right? the responses in this thread so far is evidence enough - some people think it's fine, and others think it's slipping in quality. the thing about pokemon and pokemon games is that may appeal to some people, and they won't appeal to others. i haven't gotten LGPE because the GO catching mechanic isn't my thing, but i'm not going to say that the franchise is going to shit because of it. it's clear that it has an audience that enjoys that kind of experience, which pretty much sums up the franchise in its entirety.

you're going to have fans that pound their chests and exclaim their opinion with gusto that this franchise has been rolling down the hill fast "since gen 5" (gen 5 isn't as perfect as people like to think it is but that's a can of worms i'm not opening in this thread). that doesn't mean that other generations are objectively worse, it all comes down to preference in the end. if you don't like motorcycle lizards, that's fine! they may be future pokemon that might be to your tastes. if not, don't play it. no one's making you, after all. you're more than fine to wait until another game or generation releases that you may like.

as far as how i feel on a personal level? i'm of the more quieter, less outspoken opinion that pokemon has been doing fine and will continue to do so. sure, there are improvements to be made, but i play pokemon because i love the cute little creatures and the battling and that's enough for me.

 

[Nah]

I wouldn't say that it's getting worse over time, but rather that people are becoming increasingly tired of how Game Freak continues to refuse to deal with long standing issues and just churns out a game ever year or two with little real refinement or change (with one exception). Gen 6 was more the point where people became collectively vocal about it, and not so much that "Gen 5 was the last good gen".

It was one thing back in Gens 1 and 2 where Game Freak was little more than a small indie studio that could barely code its way out of a paper bag, but these days it's a bit absurd that the company that is directly backed by one of the 3 big gaming corporations and makes a core part of one of the most lucrative franchises to ever exist does what it does (although I know why they do).

 

[The Foogle]

Absolutely. In my opinion, Pokemon's been on a downward spiral since Gen 6 and i don't think it's ever going to recover. The games post BW are far too easy, the rivals are all friendly instead of being a threat, and the gen to gen gimmicks are becoming more horrible with every game. (Mega evolution was the only exception, though. That was cool.) XY was where the cracks started to show, but fortunately ORAS was there to pick up the slack. Gen 7 was fine, but it felt like it could have been a BIT better. Almost like there was something that could have improved it greatly. I can't quite say what that is yet. Gen 8 was unbearable for me, though. I finally stopped caring about modern Pokemon after the fact that i realized i had completely lost motivation to finish Shield, and i'm never going to, either. Oh, and don't even get me started on the atrocious DP remakes. They are consistently showing that they aren't putting any true effort into the main games, and thank goodness for the fans who make incredible ROM hacks that satisfy our needs!

I'm calling it right now, Scarlet/Violet will have DLC. Because of course Nintendo will do it.

 

[Sheep]

Personally I don't think so. Each generation has something about it I strongly adore, even new generations - for SwSh it was the incredible music and character designs. I also loved Bede and Marnie's personalities on top of that, even if they weren't the strongest rivals.

While I respect people who prefer older generations and think the current ones aren't as good, for certain individuals I feel that kind of feeling is caused by nostalgia/getting older though. Sometimes people don't really realize that. Feeling the older gens are better is still absolutely valid and I'm not saying everyone just has nostalgia glasses on, I just feel certain people are overly attached to their first few generations they played as kids. Honestly I am too and if I could choose to replay only specific Pokémon games it would probably be gen 2 or 3 haha..but I don't think the series has really gotten worse as there are things I still adore about it now. Certain aspects are worse, sure, but certain ones are also better.

 

[pkmin3033]

I find this idea that Pokemon could be "getting worse" to be interesting, because from my perspective Pokemon hasn't changed in any significant way since the first games. Whilst Game Freak have built upon the basic concept that they started with in Gen I, they haven't really refined or improved it in any meaningful way, preferring instead to focus on other aspects of the game in some attempt to make them feel different: the regional setting, the Pokemon available, and the NPCs. Even then these have all followed the same sort of tropes, making the differences cosmetic only.

But they have been very much stuck in a rut due to the overwhelming success of the franchise, and how founded upon nostalgia the video game industry is, especially now. People don't like change, they want something that is familiar and comfortable. Change is not necessarily bad, but from a business standpoint it IS very risky, and the Pokemon games spearhead the success and development of the largest global media franchise in the world. If they release a bad Pokemon game (some may argue they already have, but I'm taking about a game that completely departs from the traditional formula and flops hard because of it) then they're in trouble. Better to stick with what works, what is old and familiar, and they know will sell millions.

I think the more you examine a concept, and the more you revisit it, the more its flaws become more readily apparent, and the more quickly you tire of it. Pokemon has been giving us the exact same gameplay since Gen I, and the exact same plot since Gen III, and the few changes they DID make - being the Pokemon, the regional setting, and since Gen VI the regional gimmick - being just enough to keep fans satisfied...at least to a point. Where the cracks will begin to show will depend upon your preferences as an individual - where you started with the franchise, what else you play, what you believe constitutes meaningful change in a video game, etc. - but it does seem like the more time goes on, and the more Game Freak release what are essentially re-releases of the Gen I games set in a new region with a few new Pokemon, NPCs, and gameplay that is enhanced by the current generation hardware, but not changed by it in a lasting meaningful way, the more people are going to drop off from it due to fatigue, disinterest, and general disatisfaction.

But I don't think that means the franchise is getting worse, because for it to get worse would imply a negative change, and there is NO change. It's aging. Fans are aging. Nostalgia is becoming a negative force where once it was a positive one, because they're so bored of the same thing over and over that they long for the days when it didn't feel stale, so even though the experience is exactly the same, they are attributing that to a negative change in the franchise, without realising that they're actually just playing what they played all those years ago and now they're tired of it.

 

[Corveone]

I thought this thread was more about whether Pokémon designs were getting worse, not the Pokémon franchise itself.

Well, if we're talking about the franchise, yeah, some things are getting worse from a gameplay standpoint, like having forced Exp. Share and Affection bonusses is objectively worse than having those features optional. But we are getting improvements and QoL in other areas as well.

 

[Duck]

I always find it funny that people say "Look at this Pokémon! It's literally >insert thing here<" as if Pokemon based on goofy concepts weren't a thing from the start.

Why is a motorcycle lizard inherently worse than say, half a dozen cracked eggs (Gen 1)? Or a pile of trash (Gen 5)?

If anything it's a more imaginative concept than just ">object<, but alive actually".

To piggyback on Dawn's answer, it's important to analyze your biases and realize whether something is truly "bad" (by any given definition) or just "I'm not used to it."

And it's also important to keep in mind that Pokémon is first and foremost a game for children. Game Freak axed the Game Corner because they explicitly wanted to keep their games rated E+ (instead of 12+).

So what's goofy or handholdey to you, might be perfectly reasonable choices when catering to children under the current game market, who has a very different set of expectations for games than you had when you were a kid.

A lot of people are aging out of Pokémon games and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[_confused_piplup_]

Not at all. It just goes on the personal taste and about the good ideas they have and also the style they want to follow. For example, I find that gen 5 pokemon seem to be more realistic and similar to animals than the other pokemon. I think it was a choice of style as well. I liked gen 6 pokemon more than gen 7 ones, but I preferred all the Galarian forms to the Alolan ones. Lastly, while I am not super excited for all the new pokemon shown, I am crazy fond of Miraidon, who is definitely becoming one of my fav legendaries. Koraidon is good as well. So, from my personal experience is just ups and downs and I guess there's not an objective answer to this, it mainly goes by personal taste.

 

[Sweet Serenity]

I have to strongly disagree. Pokémon is not getting worse simply because I dislike a Pokémon's design. In fact, I honestly couldn't care less about a Pokémon's design when actually using it in battle. I also don't believe that Pokémon is getting worse overall as a franchise, but instead, is getting better and has done so with each passing generation.

Beginning with generation I, despite being the beginning of the Pokémon franchise that introduced us to the video game series that we all love, generation I was an unbalanced glitchy mess of a game. Psychic-type Pokémon were too powerful, moves missed more often, type matchups that were supposed to have worked did not work such as Ghost-type vs. Psychic-type, and so on.

Generation II improved upon generation I by adding some more balance to the game by introducing the Dark and Steel-types, correcting the glitches that caused the type matchups not to work properly, added more features and content such as a day/night cycle, real-time clock and events that occur on certain times, PokéGear, the ability of Pokémon to hold items for battle, the addition of Kanto, along with Johto, and 100 new Pokémon, all of which made Pokémon better.

Next, with generation III, while the game did slightly regress by not including a visible day/night system, generation III changed the landscape for competitive battlers by introducing Pokémon having different abilities in battle, revamped the EV system that gives trainers more freedom to control their Pokémon's stat growth, and so on. The changes in the battle mechanics signified that Pokémon took a step in the right direction and improved, even though generation II had better overall games in my opinion.

Game Freak definitely stepped their game up with generation IV, in which they made changes that changed the game of Pokémon in ways that have become useful staples today. Generation IV determined physical and special attacks based upon the individual move rather than the typing, which made many Pokémon that struggled to be good much better. For example, despite a Pokémon like Gyarados having good stats, Gyarados was never good in games before generation IV because its primary Water typing only dealt special damage and it had a bad Special Attack/Special stat. In addition, it had a great Attack stat, but couldn't make good use of it because it couldn't learn a single move of its secondary Flying typing that did physical damage. Generation IV also provided many Pokémon with much needed evolutions that made them more relevant.

Generation V went in the direction of generation IV and only made the games better. Generation V introduced the most new Pokémon in the series, created a plethora of Pokémon that became mainstays in the competitive scene, introduced the concept of Hidden Abilities, which made many different Pokémon (such as Ditto and the starter Pokémon) much better competitively, introduced fully animated sprites, and put more emphasis on the storytelling aspect of Pokémon. Game Freak also seemed to notice that many Pokémon players weren't all children at this time and seemed to aim generation V more towards teenagers and young adults as opposed to just children like the other games. I believe the changes in generation V really helped the series improve drastically.

Generation VI improved upon the Pokémon franchise by converting Pokémon into a fully 3D game, which greatly improved upon Pokémon's visuals when battling and exploring the vast open worlds of the Kalos and Hoenn regions. Generation VI also introduced battle gimmicks, with started with Mega Evolution, which could give trainers an edge in battle if they use certain Pokémon. Generation VI also introduced the Exp. Share, which made training Pokémon to certain levels much less of a grind. They also created the much needed Fairy-type that added some balance to the game, since Dragon-types were just too powerful, especially Pokémon such as Hydregion and Haxorus.

Generation VII made improvements upon many features in Pokémon that made playing the games more user friendly. For example, generation VII removed HM moves entirely, which allowed players to finally choose whatever moves they wanted for their Pokémon without making them HM slaves. They also took a lot of chances and deviated from the traditional gym badge challenge in a more positive way, as well as introduced many different ways to earn money and items through various side-quests throughout the game. The spin-off games such as the Let's Go series introduced the ability to swap Pokémon from the party and the boxes without necessitating the use of a Pokémon Center PC. The series also introduced wild Pokémon free-roaming in the open world, which is a vast improvement from being randomly attacked in the grass, caves, and bodies of water, which made movement often difficult and annoying.

Lastly, generation VIII improved upon the franchise in a big way as well. They took everything generation VII improved on and upgraded it. They also especially made improvements for the competitive players. Training Pokémon has never been easier, as you level up your Pokémon easily with Exp. Candies that the game generously gives up throughout your play-through. They also made it so that vitamins can completely max a Pokémon's EVs. In addition, the competitive battling scene is probably at its best on a meta level, as the Battle Stadium has ranked battles in both singles and doubles that allow players to achieve master rank, as well as many official competitions with varying rules. Pokémon Legends: Arceus also introduce several new features in Pokémon that made all sorts of Pokémon fans happy, such as deeper RPG elements, pseudo-free roaming, and a new way to catch Pokémon entirely.

Thus, all in all, Pokémon is only getting better. Sure, while each generation might introduce some features that we might dislike, overall, the good definitely outweighs the bad. I am looking forward to seeing what improvements Game Freak made for the generation IX as well.

 

[tetrahedronX900]

Geez I got a lot of response, okay pokemon is getting worse is a matter of an opinion not a fact.

 

[Commander Saturn]

I am personally loving where Pokemon has been, and also where it is going.

 

[moon]

The first three generations will always be nostalgic and fun for me. But the newer gens have brought different vibes and themes, different styles and gameplays, and that's been necessary - and always a part of the pokémon franchise, moving forward. Making the same game over and over again would get tiresome real soon. But pokémon keeps reinventing itself and even though some of us might prefer the first generations and the themes and feels of those games (or that anime etc.) forever, that's just preference yeah. It's really rather impressive that pokémon never died off as a franchise and rather just keeps evolving (pun intended).

 

[Squirtkipfan01]

Its a complicated view. Way i see it, if you want a game like gen 4 or 5 then yea they have gotten kinda worse. If your ok with accepting the newer title and trying the new things the attempt then id argue pokemon is as good as always. Also depends on what you like out of a pokemon game. The fact that x and y have basically no post game make them the worse mainline games for me