Latest OU Suspect Test: Mega Metagross (voting results are in)

[Nah]

Yeah so a couple of hours ago a suspect test for Mega Metagross was announced on Smogon:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-oras-ou-suspect-process-round-2-spider-man.3529407/

Thoughts people?

 

[Foamster-Whiskey]

I love Mega Metagross, both attack, defense and both Sp. Attack and Sp. Defense makes it virtually unstoppable if used in the right way. How can anyone not like this pokemon, I understand if it's hard to beat but to have this on your team and have the right move set can potentially wipe out a whole team

 

[Omicron]

I'm very glad it is getting a suspect test. It is virtually unstoppable if used in the right way. There are some checks, yeah, but including them in your team purely because of Megagross often results in poor synergy.

I mean, greninja pales in comparison of megagross's power and versatility.

I don't say this often, but I'm 100% in favor of a ban.

 

[Pendraflare]

I don't know. I mean, it is pretty strong, but its typing was cut this generation with the nerf to Steel-types, and without Clear Body after it Mega Evolves it's prone to stuff like Intimidate and Sticky Web. But it does have a built in Life Orb for almost all its significant attacks save Earthquake, so I don't really know how this could end up going.

 

[Tainers]

I actually have never seen mega metagross in OU but I feel like it has the same impact that mega lucario had. Just a sweeper that is tooo hard to stop.

 

[Anti]

might as well give y'all my own thoughts, in the form of a pro/con.

PRO: uhhhhh nothing with any offensive presence can counter this thing lol?
CON: actually kinda mediocre vs. defensive builds

PRO: tons of resists and gr8 defenses, checks the numerous op fairies in the tier
CON: never invests in its defenses and has to run a -def/sdef nature to boost gk, iffier sdef pre-mega, prone to status and somewhat easy to wear down

PRO: can pursuit trap just to screw with you/abuse the latis
CON: then it's kinda easy to stop assuming you're running one of its passive af counters

PRO: meteor mash and zen headbutt have annoying hax side effects that can swing battles against well-prepped teams
CON: if they don't miss

PRO: hits a very cozy speed tier
CON: always screws you on the base 110 speed ties

PRO: can run agility which basically 6-0es the three people who run ho now
CON: agility doesn't help vs its defensive checks

PRO: so good that people stopped using mega gardevoir
CON: even harder to stop than mega gardevoir

PRO: wouldn't it be funny if this guy didn't get banned and it started running toxic or explosion or some other gimmick stuff just to screw with people?
CON: NO

PRO: stole machamp's "best mon with four arms" championship belt
CON: stole machamp's "best mon with four arms" championship belt

PRO: is being suspected tested, thank the lord
CON: was allowed in ou this long

so yeah probably gonna vote this uber too fast strong etc., biggest problem i have is that it's very difficult to both build for and play around (unless you're packing multiple checks then it's a lot easier) and while you could convince me that the meta-game (ha!) needs more time to adapt to it, i just think it's too strong even it's not mega salamence level.

also realtalk screw mm attack boosts they are the worst.

 

[srinator]

Meta breaking meta deserves a ban hopefully not cause then my screwed up team gets more screwed up

But Yh it's fast and really powerful, stall has its answers for it but it's hard to stop if you are running offense builds etc.

 

[Pendraflare]

It seems a handful of the arguments that say to keep it are that "Fairy-types will dominate the metagame otherwise" or that they're worried about what will happen without it present. That and the whole 4MSS argument which can also be given to Mega Gengar, Mega Salamence and Greninja.

 

[Xairmo]

Greninja suffers from 4MSS? I believe that's already been fairly discredited pretty much from the get go of Gren's suspect testing discussion. I think Protean and his insane speed with respectable physical and special attacking power is what made him pretty much immune to 4MSS.

Anyway we're here for Meta, not Gren, though I will say I think Smogon is just a tad on the banhappy side these days. Personally I just haven't had much difficulty taking down a Mega Meta not have I ever been swept by one. His Steels lost resistance to Dark and Ghost really hurt it. His does have bulk, but he's far from the bulkiest and most any variations of him I've seen don't really invest in its bulk opting instead to invest in his speed and attack(s). I think he has become I bit more in the spotlight since the ban of Greninja, but I don't really see him as broken.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Mega Meta needs banning.

Offenses answer is basically "Landorus-T"....lol....aka fail switch in.

It also forces you to use Skarm, Ferro (loses to Hammer Arm), Zong, Slowbro/King or fodder pokes to it every time. It can also trap stuff with Pursuit if it wishes so opens up sweeps or even use Grass Knot to remove bulky grounds and Slowbro. T-Punch is also very viable as is Ice Punch but thats kinda ass.

Also on the "smogon seems ban happy". That would be because megas are actual cancer and need a blanket ban or at least 90% of them need to go, its like allowing poorly disguised uber pokemon in OU. Most of them have better stats, ability and typing than uber pokemon sooooo. That and what are THE most banned things of gen 6 so far? Stupid op megas. This further backs up my point. Alot of them are low key broken and go under the radar too for example, mega Gardevoir which has less viable switch ins then mega metagross and basically kills stall if you dont run niche shit. I hate to be writing this, but mega Slowbro is basically a check to heavy offense because nothing kills it after a CM with ease and all its switch ins take like 50% from unboosted attacks lol. I dont think defensive threats are inherently a bad thing due to the ridiculous offensive threats this gen but seriously. Most of the megas are like this as i said, under the radar bs. I think anti sums it up well "ORAS is about 4/5 bans away from a good balanced metagame".

 

[JJ Styles]

And I've always thought that this would never come to pass.. but if worse comes to worse then our fabled Fairy slaying Metal Gear would have leave the OU scene and let Fairies run rampant even more.

 

[Dark Azelf]

There are a tonne of fairy checks though so i dont get this logic. Plus normal metagross is still usable even if mega gets banned so i mean you havent lost anything bar metas OP stone.

 

[Yoshikko]

jirachi > fairies lol
tbh jirachi is my answer for everything, it usually survives one earth power from diancie and iron head ohko's so

 

[Detox]

While I am happy that my boy Metagross was blessed with such an outstanding mega evolution, I will admit that it is pretty broken and I can't blame anyone for being fed up with it. Though, as Anti said earlier, the vote will probably be a close one because a lot of players don't actually see this thing as a problem. As far as my opinion goes, MegaGross is pretty insane. Tough Claws gives its two STABS of choice what is essentially a free Life Orb boost, it has 80 / 150 / 110 defenses, and also sits at a pretty good speed tier for something with its stat distribution. While no one may invest in its bulk, those defenses are more than enough for a sweeper to get by. Like I previously stated, I think the vote will be close, but I think Metagrossitite gets the ban.

 

[Zeffy]

I don't get how some people don't think this guy is overpowered. Tough Claws + brilliant offensive stats + pretty good speed tier in itself is the whole reason why this guy can tear teams a new one. Without MMeta perhaps the tier can be less matchup oriented because i'm tired of the stupid team building restrictions that ORAS brought with it.

everyone should, imho, try to get reqs if they want mega metagross banned. anti has already pointed out that this might be a close vote, meaning that even 1 vote can actually make a difference because there's much less bandwagoning

 

[Nah]

I suppose the reason why some people don't think that Mega Metagross is broken is because while it looks broken on paper it may or may not be broken in actual practice. This one guy said it pretty good in this post here:

Imagine a mon with 700 BST. It has great coverage, fantastic attacking stats, and good bulk. Its ability is also good. It suffers from some shortcomings, but it has the ability to get past its counters with a different set. It can struggle with steel types since they resist its STABs, but it has a coverage move for them. It can also hold an item.

This Pokemon I just described is Kyurem-B, albeit in a way that makes it sound better than it is.

It's not a perfect comparison, but it's interesting anyway. I think we can all agree that Black Kyurem isn't broken lol.

But I'm not going to argue whether or not Mega Meta should be banned or not. I'm not skilled enough nor knowledgeable enough to make a well-informed decision about this. I just think that this reaction that some people are having (not saying anyone here but in general) of "omfg MMeta is so fucking broken why wasn't this shit suspected earlier omg the meta will be SO much better without it" is going a little overboard imo. I really doubt that the metagame will be that much better if Megagross gets the boot. Sure, there'll be one less problem, but the ORAS metagame will still have the same problems it's always had.

ramble ramble

 

[Howmander]

I genuinely don't see why it's such a big threat all of a sudden, it's got exactly the same typing as before and therefore has all the same weaknesses it did before, it get's a paltry 10 base point boost to both attacks (translating to a maximum of 11 actual stat points at level 50) and 20 points to both defenses, and if it's up against something bulky that's slower than it anyway, the extra speed means nothing, if it was slower than metagross before it's STILL slower than mega metagross. If it were a Mega Metagross with a life orb, sure, I would get that, but if it's just a normal metagross is 11 extra points to attack that big of a threat? Isn't that really more of the opponent trainer training their own pokemon so razor thin that the slightest change will defeat them?

 

[Dark Azelf]

I genuinely don't see why it's such a big threat all of a sudden, it's got exactly the same typing as before and therefore has all the same weaknesses it did before, it get's a paltry 10 base point boost to both attacks (translating to a maximum of 11 actual stat points at level 50) and 20 points to both defenses, and if it's up against something bulky that's slower than it anyway, the extra speed means nothing, if it was slower than metagross before it's STILL slower than mega metagross. If it were a Mega Metagross with a life orb, sure, I would get that, but if it's just a normal metagross is 11 extra points to attack that big of a threat? Isn't that really more of the opponent trainer training their own pokemon so razor thin that the slightest change will defeat them?

You do realize you just outlined why its so good now right lol? You forgot tough claws and outspeeding most of the metgame though. The former is essentially a free life orb boost anyway.

 

[Howmander]

You do realize you just outlined why its so good now right lol? You forgot tough claws and outspeeding most of the metgame though. The former is essentially a free life orb boost anyway.

Exactly, so other than those measly 11 stat points, it's still not very much stronger than it's original form. It's only faster, and my earlier point already dealt with that: if it's going up against something bulkier and slower than it anyway, it doesn't matter if it gets a 9000% speed boost, both pokemon are still going in the same order they were going in originally anyway. If my mega swampert (my NON EV trained, 40 point SLOWER mega Swampert) can take down Steven's mega metagross in two hits, why is it such an indomitable opponent for people that ARE Ev training their pokemon? Yeah, the people using Mega MEtagross will also be EV training, however, again, mega metagross gets a paltry 11 stat point bonus to their attacks, if your pokemon are perfectly fine at 1 form, yet 11 points destroys your entire team, it's pretty obvious that everyone else isn't the problem.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Exactly, so other than those measly 11 stat points, it's still not very much stronger than it's original form. It's only faster, and my earlier point already dealt with that: if it's going up against something bulkier and slower than it anyway, it doesn't matter if it gets a 9000% speed boost, both pokemon are still going in the same order they were going in originally anyway. If my mega swampert (my NON EV trained, 40 point SLOWER mega Swampert) can take down Steven's mega metagross in two hits, why is it such an indomitable opponent for people that ARE Ev training their pokemon? Yeah, the people using Mega MEtagross will also be EV training, however, again, mega metagross gets a paltry 11 stat point bonus to their attacks, if your pokemon are perfectly fine at 1 form, yet 11 points destroys your entire team, it's pretty obvious that everyone else isn't the problem.

K so

1. In game "conquests" are irrelevant as is posting them in this forum and expecting people to take them seriously in a COMPETITIVE forum. Face real opponents.
2. Go look up what the ability "tough claws" does then you will realize why its that much stronger.
3. Go look up metagame speed tiers for oras and why outspeeding THINGS IT COULDNT BEFORE is relevant. Its not just walls and tanks.



edit: Tough Claws Zen Headbutt 2hkos mega Swampert and Tough Claws Grass Knot OHKOs.