4th Gen Legendary Pokémon

[Azonic]

I have notice that a great deal of members of the PokéCommunity consider Legendary Pokémon "too strong." I'd like to hear about different opinions why or why not Legendary Pokémon are considered too strong. The reason I bring up this topic is that many trainers are not willing to battle Legendary Pokémon. I'd like to share my opinion about this. ​

First of all, there are a categorized rank of Pokémon who are truly considered "too strong." Its called the Uber Tier. The reason that some Pokémon are considered uber is that they might have the advantage over regular pokémon. The majority of the Uber Tier consists of Legendary Pokémon, only with the exception of Wobbuffet and arguably Wynaut. But what exactly makes normal, un-uber legendary Pokémon have the upper hand in battling? Just because they require a special way to be obtained or if there's only one or two in the game does not make them have the superior power. ​

Take a look at Entei, for example. The majority of the Overused and approximately a half of the Borderline Pokémon can take it down. But it is still banned in many of the battles I see. Its stats could be a lot better and is not very durable. So why ban it? For me, I am willing to accept any battles involving legendary Pokémon (outside of ubers). So I have some questions to ask you members:

- Are you willing to accept battles involving Legendaries (outside of ubers)?
- Why or why not?

---

Are you willing to accept battles involving Legendaries (outside of ubers)?

- Yes, I definitely am willing to.

Why or why not?

- Explained in the post.

 

[Lustful_Envy]

Just because they are legendary doesn't mean there unbeatable. I can beat most legendaries if there strategy involved, it just a lot harder than other pokemon. I would be able to battle them but i'd put on some restrictions limiting how many you should use. Likewise it would be fair to have a legendary in your team to balance it out. But I'd say there are better alternatives to the legendaries.

 

[mcash7]

clade is hawt^_^, jk, I dont personally use legendaries but i dont see a problem fighting them

 

[Azonic]

This is what I'm talking about. You're treating Legendaries differently than other normal Pokémon.

I can beat most legendaries if there strategy involved, it just a lot harder than other pokemon.

But what makes them so much harder to beat? Entei can be easily taken down by Earthquake or Stone Edge. But why do so many trainers think they're superior?

Meh, I'm going to rephrase the question.

- Do you think Legendary Pokemon are stronger than other Pokemon?

 

[umbros]

Some legendaries, yes. The Uber Tier is ridiculously strong; my Vileplume should never have to take a Psychic from a Mewtwo. That's why they have battles entirely for people to use Ubers.

However, that's not to say that all legendaries are too strong. I have no issue with someone having a legendary bird (except maybe Ho-oh or Lugia), and I definitely take out one of those craptacular legendary dogs on a regular basis (though I love Raikou, myself). The Regis are totally doable with normal pokemon, and actually, a lot of the Uber tier can be taken out, as long as you have the right pokemon. I fought against someone 3-on-3 once using Marowak, Umbreon and Ninjask, and took down their Ho-oh, Lugia, and Mewtwo. It all comes down to strategy, some of the time.

My problem is when people use only Ubers, or only legends in general, or when their legend beats a UU pokemon of mine and they claim it's invincible. It doesn't make you a better trainer to train legends, and IMHO, it usually makes you a little lazier if you only fight in the Uber tier. They DO have much higher stats on average, after all. They're harder to catch, but not harder to train, and you can beat most pokemon without even having much strategy. I guess some legends are just meant to be in their own rank.

 

[Sajiri]

I probably wouldnt mind if someone used legendaries or not, because I know I can beat them. My problem with people using legendaries is the people who think they are unbeatable tend to use them and only them. Thats where you get those 9 year olds thinking they're oh so tough and the battle just isnt much fun.

If the person actually uses strategy, then Im fine with them. They're using a good pokemon the way it should be used and putting thought into it. There's plenty of legendaries I would like to use, and only because I LIKE them, not because they're uber. I like to use my lugia, manaphy and suicune, but I dont bother with things like giratina and mewtwo which are ugly ^^; Okay I know they're good but I just dont like them.

There's also the fact that alot of people hack legendaries. What fun is it to go up in a battle with someone who's gone and hacked arceus, mew, darkrai etc and given them impossible IVs/EVs. Its just not fair.

Well thats just my opinion. Admittadly I havent battled on wifi much yet and maybe one day I will hate legendaries, but at the moment I dont see the problem with it as long as they arent hacked

 

[Myzou]

No. Why? Because legendaries do have better moves and stats then regular pokemon, people who use legends don't know how to properly raise non legends.

 

[BeachBoy]

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that legends, that arn't labeled as Ubers, get treated unfairly. Seriously everyone is like "BeachBoy used a suicune!!!11!1!, cheater!1!1!" < that right there alone irritates me. Gamefreak put a majestic feel into the game with legends, and some legends in fact that are ubers, should not be used. Though legends today get kicked to the corner and used as "He cheated with legends" It sickins me to see, in normal forums such a marri and sere that they think every legend is too strong.

I think and strongly believe, that any legend that isnt labeled uber, is just as fair as a pichu.

I in fact love using legendaries, they don't have an advatage over anyone else, so I can use them. Yes they are hard to obtain competitively. Though if anyone has looked at my last RMT, how many legends were there? four! one two three four. Now does that show I dont play competitively? HECK NO, I made it to the top 100 in players and Im proud of that, with FAIR legends.

Legends are completely fair and shouldnt be treated so badly for just have a Majestic and meaningful label of "Legendary."

And @ myzou, your entitled to your opinion, but your exactly what im talking about. If they had unfair stats and movepools they would be banned into uber, that is the entire point why we have tiers people.
Honestly. Anyone that doesnt allow legends, isnt a true competitive battler, as some of the great OU's heatran, suicune, and cresslia get thrown out, the legends in the ou, somewhat do balance it out. If we had no cresslia, I bet garchomp would be uber. Actually yeah Id bet ten bucks on that.
So it isnt they are unfair and it show the person doesnt know how to train them, It's they worked there butt off to get a decent iv and natured legend, and are even more competitive then anyone around.

Again no offense to anyone that says no, but that's my opinion.

People we have TIERS, for a reason, it is to divide the metagame up and show who is both unfair (ubers) and who is competitive (ou) and not (nu)
Seriously Legends are treated extemely unfairly and they are just as equal as anyone other pokemon in their tier and that is the truth.

Now on the other hand, using uber is completely a no. They arnt a competitve person and I refure to play in the unblanced uber metagame.

Also, many state the fact many legends are hacks, this is true. But any pokemon on the block can be hacked, if they are hacked, report them and then problem solved.

So in conclusion, Heck yeah ill let them use legends, they are allowed, in terms of ubers: no, but legends not labeled uber are competely fair. And shouldnt be kicked to the curb for being a legend

 

[Myzou]

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that legends, that arn't labeled as Ubers, get treated unfairly. Seriously everyone is like "BeachBoy used a suicune!!!11!1!, cheater!1!1!" < that right there alone irritates me. Gamefreak put a majestic feel into the game with legends, and some legends in fact that are ubers, should not be used. Though legends today get kicked to the corner and used as "He cheated with legends" It sickins me to see, in normal forums such a marri and sere that they think every legend is too strong.

I think and strongly believe, that any legend that isnt labeled uber, is just as fair as a pichu.

I in fact love using legendaries, they don't have an advatage over anyone else, so I can use them. Yes they are hard to obtain competitively. Though if anyone has looked at my last RMT, how many legends were there? four! one two three four. Now does that show I dont play competitively? HECK NO, I made it to the top 100 in players and Im proud of that, with FAIR legends.

Legends are completely fair and shouldnt be treated so badly for just have a Majestic and meaningful label of "Legendary."

And @ myzou, your entitled to your opinion, but your exactly what im talking about. If they had unfair stats and movepools they would be banned into uber, that is the entire point why we have tiers people.
Honestly. Anyone that doesnt allow legends, isnt a true competitive battler, as some of the great OU's heatran, suicune, and cresslia get thrown out, the legends in the ou, somewhat do balance it out. If we had no cresslia, I bet garchomp would be uber. Actually yeah Id bet ten bucks on that.
So it isnt they are unfair and it show the person doesnt know how to train them, It's they worked there butt off to get a decent iv and natured legend, and are even more competitive then anyone around.

Again no offense to anyone that says no, but that's my opinion.

People we have TIERS, for a reason, it is to divide the metagame up and show who is both unfair (ubers) and who is competitive (ou) and not (nu)
Seriously Legends are treated extemely unfairly and they are just as equal as anyone other pokemon in their tier and that is the truth.

Now on the other hand, using uber is completely a no. They arnt a competitve person and I refure to play in the unblanced uber metagame.

Also, many state the fact many legends are hacks, this is true. But any pokemon on the block can be hacked, if they are hacked, report them and then problem solved.

So in conclusion, Heck yeah ill let them use legends, they are allowed, in terms of ubers: no, but legends not labeled uber are competely fair. And shouldnt be kicked to the curb for being a legend

Cresselia/Celebi/3 Legendary Birds + Ubers are what I don't fight, as well as blissey (though my milotic just beat on on shoddy, ice beam lasted 7 turns for freeze :/). Other legendaries I'm fine with.

Those legendaries are the ones that gave legendaries bad names.

Whether you like it or not, Ubers and some OU legendaries have More stats then other pokemon, and in no way can be competed against from non ubers.

 

[BeachBoy]

Cresselia/Celebi/3 Legendary Birds + Ubers are what I don't fight, as well as blissey (though my milotic just beat on on shoddy, ice beam lasted 7 turns for freeze :/). Other legendaries I'm fine with.
Those legendaries are the ones that gave legendaries bad names.
Whether you like it or not, Ubers and some OU legendaries have More stats then other pokemon, and in no way can be competed against from non ubers.

Now yes, by far, the OU tier has many legends that have great stats, they are in that tier for that reason, they are good.
If we moved alllll the legends away from the ou, BL metagame, do you know what would happen? Probably some of the pokemon you use, like a garchomp or other various sweepers, would be banned, that's right, teh legends balance the game, and are completely fair.
Ubers are label as pokemon with a BST over 600 (Kyogre/ arceus), or incredibly vast movepools or move (Darkrai & mew) or pokemon way to unfair for ou. Now every day we destroy ou legends, they arnt hard, a person with skill in building teams thrives in OU, it's the fun of the game to have them in the OU tier, banning blissey and such makes things unbalanced.

How do they give legends bad names when the most common move, Stealth rock in todays metagame pretty much nulls out all the birds, and halfs Articunos and Moltres's health by 50% upon entry. The legendary birds arnt even that great in movepool coverage. SR (stealth rock is the most common move you'll see out there)

Secondly Cresslia, she is perfectly fine, She lacks a valuable recovery with weather being common, and she lacks attacking force, meaning she's very easy to deal with in many cases. She is a top tier pokemon but by far not bannage with all the pursuit and dark in todays game.

Thirdly, Celebi? Is like 7 weakness and all the pursuits in todays game not enough for you?
Honestly the legends you say give a bad rap, are fine.

Also, you say about its the stats that are the problem when its not that much, Its how to counter and makes them to take them on. Their are reasons for phazers, Stealth rockers, and pursuiters in every main competitive team.

And I think you banning those ones can give you the unfair advantage, when other pokemon, not legends, can destroy if blissey and cress arnt there to balance things out.

Now I know you probably wont change your foot in this, but honestly, competitive battlers deal with those legends daily and regulary, and its a major part of the process when making a team. And to all of you that ban legends or some. You taking them away gives you the advantage, the stats arnt the big deal, you can show me various other pokemon that arnt legend and have way better stats

Tyranitar, garchomp, many many NORMAL pokemon, are btter then legends... In the OU tier, and the reasons we have tiers is to divide them, and the legends that arnt uber, have a reason and right to be playable. (ps. not trying to be mean, just opinion)

 

[ShadowofTime01]

I know i don't have much say in this because my pokemon battling skills haven't evolved much from the first generation in that I just use my starter and blow through the game with it, but I think there's really no advantage to Legendary pokemon. I mean, i faced my friend's brother's AR Darkrai in a two on two battle, and i didn't lose to him the first time around because his pokemon was better than mine, but because I relied solely on brute strength to win the battle. I revised my strategy and used some TMs, and i ended up beating him. I acknowledge that some legendaries have great stats and movesets, but so do regular pokemon. And a good battle isn't just about strength as i learned, but about a good strategy.

 

[El Gofre]

I do, but not for your reasons. Legendres obviously have more power than regular pokes (This is just ubers im talkin about btw), so they should only be used in their tier. Pokemon like mespirit who arent that powerful are fine to use.

 

[PokeFlora]

Meh i'm new might as well voice my opinion. To start things off theres a huge difference between non-uber legends and uber's in general. Firstly Uber's should never be let in the metgame due to the fact of the huge move pools,great base stat's,good type listing to their advantage and there ability's. The sigle handed reason is you can never guess their move set's. Thats why there banned form the metagame. The plain legends meh i use them and so does evryone else. Calm-cune,celibi,cress there to predictable. Sure they got alright type listings but their movepool isn't diverse enough to send them the title uber. They are great threats to alot of teams but these days all our teams are built to counter them skarm/bliss,zong the common walls. I ahte it when ppl abn legends in all because why dont you just ban meta,dragonite,chomp,mence, tehy all have 600 base stats with great ability's and great type listings and there move pool are pretty diverse to boot. Mos of them can be mix or physical or specail. T0tar was one thought to be the only physical one but introduction to 'Boah' thx to smogon and the 4gen split of types makes it a force to be reckoned with. In all only Ubers should be banned form the standard metagame and non-ubers should by fine.

Pokeflora
kthxbi

 

[Myzou]

Leech Seed/Recover with Celebi is extremely annoying. Cresselia can use Moonlight, as well as massive SpD.

 

[Arch_2008]

No. Why? Because legendaries do have better moves and stats then regular pokemon, people who use legends don't know how to properly raise non legends.

Let's take a look at Moltres:
90 100 90 125 85 90

yeah, those base stats are pretty high, but it can easily be taken down by any rock-type and water type pokemon, legends aren't stronger then most OU pokemon

 

[PokeFlora]

Leech Seed/Recover with Celebi is extremely annoying. Cresselia can use Moonlight, as well as massive SpD.

>__> lawl i don't know what noobs you battle but cress moonlight is not the moveset to fear. Cress was made into a Sleep talker which inflicts status of bur/poisen combined with full hp recover and pycho shift. Celibi counter is heatran the most used or my preferred is scizor pursuit form adamant scizor is 1 hit k.o on a bold celibi and of coarse they will switch on a sscizor. Cress counter its soo easy from breloom to heracross. Anything that can atke staus for advantage or divert it will do fine. Your saying its harder to beat cress then a chomp with SS runing whos holding bright powder and has sub,sword dance,dragon claw,EQ after one SD it can k.o a impish skarm sitting at 419def hp and 252 hp ev's. Not thats something to fear ohh and blinsey can atke on cress like nothing walls it completely. >__> if you want damage calc's i can post them up for ya.
Next part shoddy did test with wabbu to let it in OU environment and its still banned form most standard metagames and i agree with that. It ability+stats+move pool lets it garente an ohko on you. Deoxy-E has become a legend and not an uber. Why the move shoddy and smogon declared it official because in the OU environment it posses no threat. In the UU environment my gastrodon can manipulate the same moves of a wabbu(not encore sadly) and pull it off and does it to perfection. Ubers are banned non - ubers are nothing >__>. Next shoddy wants to try out manphy who should be uber because during rain dance it makes a full recovery in 1 turn which is too powerful for the OU metgame. Latious is up next on shoddy without sew due of coarse without that item it can compete in the OU enviroment with great success without over powering or throwing the game into a battle of latious.

kthxbi

 

[Clark]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xTkLDGtu36Q
^Heh. Watch this and tell me that legendaries are undefeatable. Sure, the guy he was battling was probably a bit of a n00b, but Arceus and Darkrai would kinda make up for that, don't you think?

- Are you willing to accept battles involving Legendaries (outside of ubers)?
I'd do it. I mean, come on. Just because it's hard to catch Raikou (actually, not really if you know how, but meh) doesn't mean it's oh-so-strong. Whining about crud like that just proves how stupid people can be.

- Why or why not?
The point of Competitive Battling is a challenge, for crying out loud! Even if these non-uber legends had stats like uber-legends, it would be a greater test of strategy. But, of course they aren't that powerful. With some super-effective STAB and a bit of stratagy, they're no worse than the average Pokemon you'll come across.

- Do you think Legendary Pokemon are stronger than other Pokemon?
Depends on what Pokemon as well as a lot of other things. Obviously an Arceus is stronger than a Bidoof, but compare Suicune to an EV-trained Blissey, and the Blissey may still be a better Wall in some situations. If you actually know what you're doing, I can't imagine it being too hard to handle a legend. It is not that big of a deal.

As that video shows, it really shouldn't matter what Pokemon you're using. If Lv.1 Rattata can KO Lv.100 Empoleon with the right moves, item, and tactic, then that's really proven. I once owned a guy with Celebi and three Deoxyses (Normal, Defense, and Attack forms) on PBR's WiFi using mainly Floatzel, Arcanine, and Espeon. Had he been an experienced trainer, he would probably be the one owning me, but a few correctly-decided Flamethrowers, Ice Fangs, Crunches, and Shadow Balls were all it took.

 

[N-XIGE]

Actually, in most pokemon games like fire red, leafgreen ruby , sapphire...etc, the only problem I encounter with legendary pokemons is catching them...for God sake, I could easily take down mewtwo with my vapoureon who knows bite! They only seem strong because we use weaker attacks than we would use in normal battle so as not to faint but weaken them. So a fully equiped mewtwo would be a problem, but he would just be like a psychic elite 4 pokemon...not much of a challenge!

 

[Myzou]

Also: You asked for my opinion, I gave it. If you call me a noob, I will report you. Period. (Yes, someone did, in case it gets deleted)

Do not argue with someone for giving an opinion when you asked for it.

 

[El Gofre]

Going by this thread it seems it's down to the difference in skill as well as the difference in stats. One of the sites top battlers (Ooka as an example) would probably kick a n00b's uber ass with his regular team, due to his knowledge of team composition, EV training and so. But he would have a VERY hard time up against someone like Dark Azelf's ubers, simply because they are on par knowledgewise but DA's ubers would give him the edge stat-wise.