Legislators preventing quorums in US state legislatures

[Netto Azure]

Indiana Democrats trigger Statehouse showdown over anti-union legislation

Empty seats reside where the Democrats normally sit as Republicans filled their seats inside the House chambers at the Indiana Statehouse on Tuesday.

Seats on one side of the Indiana House were nearly empty today as House Democrats departed the the state rather than vote on anti-union legislation.

A source tells the Indianapolis Star that Democrats are headed to Illinois, though it was possible some also might go to Kentucky. They need to go to a state with a Democratic governor to avoid being taken into police custody and returned to Indiana.
The House came into session twice this morning, with only three of the 40 Democrats present. Those were needed to make a motion, and a seconding motion, for any procedural steps Democrats would want to take to ensure Republicans don't do anything official without quorum.


With only 58 legislators present, there was no quorum present to do business. The House needs 67 of its members to be present.


House Speaker Brian Bosma said he did not know yet whether he would ask the Indiana State Police to compel the lawmakers to attend, if they can be found.
Today's fight was triggered by Republicans pushing a bill that would bar unions and companies from negotiating a contract that requires non-union members to kick-in fees for representation. It's become the latest in what is becoming a national fight over Republican attempts to eliminate or limit collective bargaining.


Gov. Mitch Daniels had warned his party late last year against pursuing so-called "right to work" legislation. While he agreed with it philosophically, he said it was a big issue that needed a state-wide debate and noted no Republican had run on this in the November election.


But now that his party is pursuing it, Daniels has not spoken against it. He has so far issued no statement, has held no news conference and has not been interviewed by any Indiana reporters in the Statehouse. Daniels did do a radio interview Monday with National Public Radio in which he discussed the labor fight which has caused a government stalemate in Wisconsin — where Senate Democrats have fled to Illinois to prevent a vote on a bill that limits collective bargaining --a now, apparently, his state.

Well this is very unusual because most US states only require a simple majority to have a quorum of legislatures.

"Four other states have supermajority quorum requirements, according to Erickson. They are Texas, Indiana, Tennessee, and Oregon."​

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I think this is cowardly and childish. If you want to stop legislation, vote against it. Filibustering is a tactic that the minority party has available if they really feel that strongly against whatever legislation they're opposing. A simple majority (half plus one) quorum is the best system because it dissuades this childishness. a three-fifths filibuster rule is designed to give the majority party and avenue to block legislation should they really be up in arms.

 

[twocows]

I think this is cowardly and childish. If you want to stop legislation, vote against it. Filibustering is a tactic that the minority party has available if they really feel that strongly against whatever legislation they're opposing. A simple majority (half plus one) quorum is the best system because it dissuades this childishness. a three-fifths filibuster rule is designed to give the majority party and avenue to block legislation should they really be up in arms.

That's exactly what they're doing. They don't up and out of state every week, you know. This is obviously an issue that matters to the people they represent enough so that they are filibustering it.

As for the issue itself, I don't really have an opinion at this point.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

That's exactly what they're doing. They don't up and out of state every week, you know. This is obviously an issue that matters to the people they represent enough so that they are filibustering it.

As for the issue itself, I don't really have an opinion at this point.

This isn't filibustering. A filibuster is an orderly procedure than can be stopped by taking won't be brought back to work by evoking cloture, will they? They fail to realize that they're point of few is in the minority because it was voted out by the people of the states they represent. If they're so deep in the minority that they can't even filibuster, that really goes to show how much voters agree with their point of view.

If there are enough members in the minority party that their absence prevnts a quorum, then I'm sure that they can successfully block legislation through a filibuster.

 

[Livewire]

This isn't filibustering. A filibuster is an orderly procedure than can be stopped by taking won't be brought back to work by evoking cloture, will they? They fail to realize that they're point of few is in the minority because it was voted out by the people of the states they represent. If they're so deep in the minority that they can't even filibuster, that really goes to show how much voters agree with their point of view.

It's also a feature the Republican leadership outright abused to stall and delay beneficial legislation from helping the American people.

You're forgetting where this is. Indiana. A state as red as a tomato (Which very ironically was carried by Obama in '08, by the way) And their doing this over an issue that doesn't necessarily follow strict Red-Blue party lines. Look at the Wisconsin situation, over the same issue. Utter chaos.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

It's also a feature the Republican leadership outright abused to stall and delay beneficial legislation from helping the American people.

You're forgetting where this is. Indiana. A state as red as a tomato (Which very ironically was carried by Obama in '08, by the way) And their doing this over an issue that doesn't necessarily follow strict Red-Blue party lines. Look at the Wisconsin situation, over the same issue. Utter chaos.

Congressional Republicans didn't leave the country to stop Obamacare or other legislation they opposed, did they

They have another agenda other than blocking legislation. Lawsuits need to be brought against these politicians.

 

[Esper]

I really don't see how it's any different than a filibuster. They're using what rules exist to stop legislation they don't agree with. It just happens to be in the form of not being present. They're both stall tactics so if you're going to criticize one you have to criticize both.

I'm curious as to what exactly the rules or laws are that say they must be present because if there isn't any legal reason they have to then they aren't doing anything illegal. Of course that might be a setting a bad precedent.

I don't know what exactly is going on in Indiana, but what I read about Wisconsin was that the anti-bargaining legislation was pushed through at rapid speed without much chance for discussion and so on, and that's what prompted this tactic there.

 

[Netto Azure]

I don't know what exactly is going on in Indiana, but what I read about Wisconsin was that the anti-bargaining legislation was pushed through at rapid speed without much chance for discussion and so on, and that's what prompted this tactic there.

Same here actually, except the Governor isn't all gung-ho about it. :U

 

[SBaby]

Look at the Wisconsin situation, over the same issue. Utter chaos.

The difference is that Walker isn't wasting this. He's actually using their absence to pass other legislation like the Voter ID bill (which punishes people that manage ballots with fines and possible imprisonment for not carding voters) without their input. He's stated that if they want to vote on any of this, they're welcome to come back to do so. But he's going ahead with other things while they're in hiding. And I've got a hunch that other governors will start doing this too.

Anyway, being in hiding could technically be conceived as a filibuster. But in a filibuster, they can still be there. They don't have to be in hiding like this. They're not hiding because they're filibustering this. They're hiding out because Walker is one vote away from getting the bill passed, and none of those 14 want to be the one to vote it in, because whoever votes it in will be infamous not only to Wisconsin, but to all of America.

Furthermore, if he has to lay off state workers because they refuse to come back, there will be a recall election, and he WILL get the 22,000 votes necessary for it. This is of course the most time consuming way to get the bill passed (because you have to have a petition, another election, and then another vote among the newly elected members, and the whole process takes about six months), but it's almost a surefire thing. I hate to say, but this bill probably gets passed one way or another. I think this is inevitable.

And on top of that, now we've got the ethics committee threatening to revoke the licenses of any doctors caught giving out those sick notes to protestors. Sum all this up, and you've got a big stick of dynamite that's ready to explode. Remember how I said awhile ago that it's going to come to the point where it only takes one push? I think we're closing in on that moment.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

The difference is that Walker isn't wasting this. He's actually using their absence to pass other legislation like the Voter ID bill (which punishes people that manage ballots with fines and possible imprisonment for not carding voters) without their input. He's stated that if they want to vote on any of this, they're welcome to come back to do so. But he's going ahead with other things while they're in hiding. And I've got a hunch that other governors will start doing this too.

Anyway, being in hiding could technically be conceived as a filibuster. But in a filibuster, they can still be there. They don't have to be in hiding like this. They're not hiding because they're filibustering this. They're hiding out because Walker is one vote away from getting the bill passed, and none of those 14 want to be the one to vote it in, because whoever votes it in will be infamous not only to Wisconsin, but to all of America.

Furthermore, if he has to lay off state workers because they refuse to come back, there will be a recall election, and he WILL get the 22,000 votes necessary for it. This is of course the most time consuming way to get the bill passed (because you have to have a petition, another election, and then another vote among the newly elected members, and the whole process takes about six months), but it's almost a surefire thing. I hate to say, but this bill probably gets passed one way or another. I think this is inevitable.

And on top of that, now we've got the ethics committee threatening to revoke the licenses of any doctors caught giving out those sick notes to protestors. Sum all this up, and you've got a big stick of dynamite that's ready to explode. Remember how I said awhile ago that it's going to come to the point where it only takes one push? I think we're closing in on that moment.

If none of those 14 want to be the one to vote on it, then they're free to vote against it. And how can he get other legislation passed without a quorum? If there is a quorum, just vote on it now.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

It is kind of Crazy that Democrats state legislators are fleeing their states to stop legislature when they can just filibuster it...these people need filibustering lessons from the Senate Republicans...

 

[SBaby]

It is kind of Crazy that Democrats state legislators are fleeing their states to stop legislature when they can just filibuster it...these people need filibustering lessons from the Senate Republicans...

No kidding. Republicans are notorious for filibustering bills. That's the whole reason Obama's looking at legislation to address that.

 

[Melody]

Well here's the low down, non-tl;dr version: By simply not being present for a quorum they are effectively filibustering in the same way their illustrious mascot would. Meaning that they've had ENOUGH OF IT already and will have to be dragged back to the capitol kicking and screaming.

Much like the mascot of the GOP stands it's ground when challenged before stampeding, the Republican form of filibuster, which is the typical standing up and impeding the proceedings with what amounts to hot air. XD

Personally, I like the Democratic way of filibustering. They don't waste time talking about needless crap. If they can vanish to prevent a vote to bring the other side to the bargaining table then they will do it. :P

 

[Netto Azure]

Well when the Ohio GOP Advances Anti-Union Bill After Last Minute Committee Shuffle...both sides are using "dirty" tactics to fight or defend their agendas.

 

[aruchan]

It's democracy at unfortunately its worst. Instead of trying to listen to all the people, both sides are using potentially illegal tactics to get their way. I don't think the bill to remove collective bargaining is fair, and Governor Walker is using really harsh and, depending on who you ask, downright vicious to get his way. As such, while what the Democrats are doing is considered illegal per se, I think it is their only real option at this point.

 

[Livewire]

Congressional Republicans didn't leave the country to stop Obamacare or other legislation they opposed, did they

They have another agenda other than blocking legislation. Lawsuits need to be brought against these politicians.

No they didn't leave, they just flat out abused the filibuster system. They filibustered more this session than any other congressional session in history, so there you have it. Which will hopefully be changed soon to avoid misuse.