Love instead of EV's! (A letter to all trainers, especially to competitive ones)

[HaloSonic]

well, even though they're just data, i still treat them with respect, and generally train them to maximise their love for me. although, i wouldnt mind a different way of obtaining EVs, probably based on fighting against your weakness type or something like that.

 

[Neelh]

I love my Pokemon. I mean, some I don't feel 'Close' to, so I don't use them, and if I do, it's for Pokeathlon. I mean, I've never really been good at taking care of pets, and I pour all of my animal adoration onto Pokemon, who may just be lines of coding, but they're cute, japanese lines of coding!

 

[dragonite149]

I agree with the creator of this thread. Pokemon should be loved no matter what their EVS,IVS, or natures are. A Pokemon should not be dumped in a box and forgotten about because it has an bad nature,unperfect stats,horrible IVS or rubbish EVS. A truly skilled trainer should win with Pokemon with bad Natures,bad IVS and bad EVS.
I believe trainers should try to win with strategies,not stats.

 

[Zaroas]

A truly skilled trainer should win with Pokemon with bad Natures,bad IVS and bad EVS.
I believe trainers should try to win with strategies,not stats.

Ok, so am I skilled if a I use a party of Ratattas only with terrible stats, terrible IVs, and no EVs? Most strategies involve stats. I don't know one strategy, except maybe the FEAR Ratatta that does not involve stats that are at least vaguely good.

I love my Pokemon. I mean, some I don't feel 'Close' to, so I don't use them, and if I do, it's for Pokeathlon. I mean, I've never really been good at taking care of pets, and I pour all of my animal adoration onto Pokemon, who may just be lines of coding, but they're cute, japanese lines of coding!

Finally someone that thinks that but isn't flaming the competitive battlers for it.

Guys who are flaming competitive battlers because they "Don't treat Pokemon with respect," play something like Pokemon Ranger or Pokemon Mystery Dungeon or whatever. Don't play the main series if you're going to just scream at other people for being competitive and trying to use Pokemon that are actually good.

Guys, point being, nobody is truly skilled or whatever. It just depends on what they're doing. Just because I'm trying to win doesn't mean you're more skilled than I am if you just use love.

 

[Kazbat028]

So guys?
This is Pokemon. Which is a game. Playing the Nuzlocke challenge I agree that they can have some attachment, some can be favourites, etc... But the other fun portion of the game is the strategy behind the mechanics. So it can be played two ways.

But I do want to emphasize. This is a freaking game.

 

[HalfFrozen]

Saddens me how some people are so 'involved' with a damn video game.

 

[PokeTrainer Rob]

I can't believe what I'm reading. Have none of you ever watched Digimon season 2? Remember the lesson that was taught?

 

[Astinus]

I can't believe what I'm reading. Have none of you ever watched Digimon season 2? Remember the lesson that was taught?

Hold onto your dreams, and the darkness will be kept at bay? (After all these years, I still remember that line?) idk. Maybe I missed the other other thing they were talking about, because they sure seemed to mention believing in dreams a lot.

Oh. Wait. Do you mean how the Digital World is a real place, and Digimon are real, and the Digimon Kaiser was hurting them? Because, well, Digimon are real in the universe that they're talking about. Pokemon, on the other hand, aren't really real in the world we're all in now, so... It's kind of a weird point to bring up. I mean, it's not as if creatures who are living, breathing, thinking, feeling are in any harm by people training the Pokemon in their game. In the Digimon Adventure anime, which the line came from? Yes. But here, not so much.

I've been watching this debate since it was posted, and didn't feel the need to post until now. (Because I apparently have the Digimon Adventure 02 finale stuck on my mind.) But really, I can see both sides, and it seems rather ridiculous(?) to fight over this. That's probably because I'm in the middle of both sides.

I EV train. I breed Pokemon for perfect natures, leaving those without perfect natures to sit in my box forever. I look up the movesets for each Pokemon. I spend the time going out into the wild grasses and fighting the same weak Pokemon to get those last sets of EVs. Like Shen, the Adamant Bagon who's being EV trained to be the roughest, toughest Salamance. Or even my Glameow, who was bred to have a nature that likes Dry food, so she can be used to win Beauty contests.

I also have my favorite Pokemon that I get attached to. My Infernape with the bad nature, no EVs, and bad moveset that traveled with me (and his partner Luxray) all over Sinnoh, defeating the Gym Leaders and eventually the E4. My team of NUs in my SoulSilver game who really aren't strong, but they do try their best. Or even my adorable Bulbasaur from the days of Blue, who never evolved.

I still like the Pokemon I'm raising. The Pokemon I use for competitive play are ones that remind me of favorite characters. Exactly the same as the ones I use to simply play through the game (or else they get their own characterization). So I'm at least one person with enough "imagination" to see my Pokemon as individuals and yet I still use some in competitive play.

In fact real life abuse like this does go on, and it comes from the same motive that these gamers have and that's a scary thing. There are people who race horses, and if their horse looses a race, they sent it to slaughter and get a new horse.

Woah. What. Just because I breed Pokemon for perfect natures also means that I am going to throw away my "imperfect" dogs, who aren't suited for the show ring? That's...harsh.

I believe trainers should try to win with strategies,not stats.

Stats are part of the strategy. If you want to win, then you look at the best whatever-you-want-to-call-it for the job. Need someone to do something quickly? You go with the faster one. Things like that. It all comes together to be a strategy.

This whole debate reminds me of the one we used to have in the Sims fandom. Now, for those who know me, it's obvious that I love my Sims, even though they are pixels and data on my computer. I don't care that they aren't perfectly good-looking. Other people, while playing the Sims, have killed off "ugly" Sims that they didn't like. (Are those people also running around killing "ugly" people in real life? Not at all.) But even though we all had different opinions on how to play the same game, it really didn't bother any of us while playing. We played the game how we wanted to, let others play the game how they wanted to, and that was fine. Neither side was more right than the others.

It's like that now. So what if people don't raise their Pokemon by EV training them, and have fun that way? So what if someone does like to EV train, and have fun that way? (I'm still seriously "wtf-ing" at how those who EV train go out and kill real animals.) It's just a video game, and it's not bothering anyone to know that out there, someone is playing a game in a different way.

My first long post here in months, and it's on this subject.

tl;dr: It's a game, everyone. Go have fun playing it however you all have fun playing it.

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

Here you go, I'm going to make a TL;DR post with a wonderful analogy I thought up over dinner.

Pokemon battling teams are like soccer teams.

If you want to be in an elite team and play for your country or something, you need to be picked and be right. That's pretty equivalent to breeding, yeah? The ones who aren't good enough simply get left behind; and out of the good ones, you still need a balance of different people, just like you pick out of good Pokemon to make a good team. They good ones go through to the next part; training.

Training an elite football team is very similar to EV training. I mean, you can always muck around and do random stuff, but your team is going to end up lazy and crap for both things. Train them properly, however, and you will own everything. I can personally say that good training really shows in competition. Our team went from wooden-spoon losers to so good we had to be moved up a division; all because our coach made us buckle down and train properly.

Then, you've got the strategy. You need a good coach to get the right positions and tactics, just like a good Pokemon team needs a good trainer to get the right moves and slots and predict in the game.

On the other hand, just like with football teams, you can use weaker, not-so-fitted for competitive battling Pokemon in-game for fun. You don't need to expect to win against proper people, and you can muck around all you like; just like if you go kick a ball around with your friends at the local park or something.

There's even an analogy for tiers. You know how you've got different levels of play? Like, you can play with your friends down at the park, you can play in a relatively proper team in your district, all the way up to playing for a Premier League team or a country. Tiers, tiers, tiers.

Now, are you going to say football coaches are evil?

 

[.Kaiser]

On Shoddy, you're not even technically using your Pokemon. I admit, once I name them, I'm attached, but not in this kind of way. When it gets down to it, Pokemon are nothing more than pixels.

This. When I play the real series and not shoddy I do kinda get attached and stuff but to limits.

 

[Kirbychu]

Now, are you going to say football coaches are evil?

No, because a soccer coach's well-being depends on the players he picks. It's his job and he makes money for both him and his family by doing so. I seriously doubt any Pokemon player is in a situation similar to that. >.>

 

[RaveSage]

I understand how you feel, dude. Like tiers? Screw that, I'll use all the "UU", "OU", etc. Pokemon I want in my team. I will give the "movesets" that I like. I will not spend hours breeding to get a "spread" of 31 in all stats.

But my real problem actually stems from the fact that these competitive battlers are up in their high horse and mocks everyone who doesn't do what they do -- elitism is one of the worst personality traits a human can have. I have experienced this forehand as I've been on Shoddy Battle for a while... trust me, Smogonites are one of the rudest people I've ever met in my life.

Ok, I'm really sorry but using Smogon's SB server to justify hate (of Smogon, Competitive Play ect.) is wrong. Almost everyone who posts frequently in that chat are messing around and trolling. Many of them aren't even active at Smogon or go to a totally different forum. If you want to hold a decent conversation with people who actually go to Smogon, look up one of their IRC channels.

 

[okjoek]

This thread is a classic arguement.

People just need to find their own spot they can call comfertable on the spectrum:

on this side you have people who been hours for 31 max IVs,natures then once they finally get that they use as many nutrient drinks and EV training tactics untill the pokemon Is Unbeatable.

on the other side you have people who dont care about anything, stats,Evs,ivs,natures or any of that.


I try to meet halfway. I dont really calculate my evs, but If i see my pokemon lacking in a stat like defence for example then I will train on geodude for a few minuites. Which makes training more fun than a grinding job.

I also dont calculate IVs, but I do try to get a good nature.



Sadly as mentioned above as hating elitism, thats kind of the goal of pokemon to become the elite.

========= my view on tiers ==========

yes, I extreemly hate these, It shouldnt matter what pokemon it is aslong as its well trained. and I use pokemon I like.

For example I love some of the following:

Zangoose
gardevoir
sableye
drifblim
aereodactyl

and many others. but tiers is the only one of these training factors that I can really despise.

 

[Shiny Politoed]

I do have a feeling for my Pokemon O-o just not they way your putting it.
it might be because of all the hours i put into training and raising them and that i do have a great imagination or the fact i pray everyday to be transported to the pokemon worlds that i may somehow develop some sort of bond with them,Pixels or not.But i don't agree that people who EV train for competitive battling should be hated on for it :P as much as i hate to admit it Pokemon is a game.

 

[Live in Color]

What happens to the previous Pokemon games you played and loved? Those pieces of data you "loved" are sitting somewhere not being played with for years, oh no!

I play competitively and I EV train, breed, etc., but I do like to pull out other Pokemon, like my in-game team or random Pokemon I capture in the wild and just go around with them for fun. Needless to say, they're just tiny little pixels that are created electronically. There is nothing alive about them. They cannot have feelings, although the anime portrays differently, this is just a video game...

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

No, because a soccer coach's well-being depends on the players he picks. It's his job and he makes money for both him and his family by doing so. I seriously doubt any Pokemon player is in a situation similar to that. >.>

What, so it's all for money? If it was a volunteer, then what happens, ah? ._. He's still going to be kicking people out of a team to make it the best it can be, y'know.

 

[DarkAlucard]

I don't love my pokemon, but i have a bond of friendship with all of them. I do EV'd, i check the IV's, i battle, and i make poweful teams but, as an example, i never never will use Blissey in a team because i don't like anything of it, and the most OU teams have one!!! Instead of be like everyone else or being so dramatic and say "i'll battle only with my 6 favorites", i research what pkmns are in OU tier and OMG, Tyranitar is one of my favs, same as Gengar and of course my second fav of all times, Umbreon. So i have a team with all my favs and i battle.
And i do all this in every tier, what's wrong with make a powerful team?
You can still use your fav pokes in it =)
Pokemon is a great game and of course if you're like me, an old experinced trainer, you know that have a friendship with that piece of code is fine, but just remember that is a game and that love is for your friends, family, etc., nor for your pokes.
PS Altought i hate Ash and pokemon anime, even he that's the LOVE'em all trainer, still train is pokes to learn others moves and be very powerful so...yeah.

 

[.Gamer]

Ok, I'm really sorry but using Smogon's SB server to justify hate (of Smogon, Competitive Play ect.) is wrong. Almost everyone who posts frequently in that chat are messing around and trolling. Many of them aren't even active at Smogon or go to a totally different forum. If you want to hold a decent conversation with people who actually go to Smogon, look up one of their IRC channels.

/server -m irc.synirc.net
/join #stark

if you really care to join a smogon channel on irc there you go.