Male Genitalia Mutilation

[Oryx]

I honestly don't understand the desire of keeping the entire foreskin, besides the increased sensitivity (which, as a male during sex, isn't necessarily a good thing; virgins need not comment on this). IMO, as a straight female, it's extremely unappealing to look at.

Both of these are completely subjective and have no place in this discussion. The people that I know that regret circumcision and wish it had never been done do so because they know that they're not experiencing sex the way they were designed to; they're experiencing a watered-down version because of the circumcision. They'll never be able to have the full experience and it disappoints them. Claiming that circumcision should be allowed because more stimulation isn't always good is a terrible argument.

And I'm not going to even get into how your idea of aesthetically pleasing should not be used as the basis for all medical procedures.

 

[groteske]

Both of these are completely subjective and have no place in this discussion. The people that I know that regret circumcision and wish it had never been done do so because they know that they're not experiencing sex the way they were designed to; they're experiencing a watered-down version because of the circumcision. They'll never be able to have the full experience and it disappoints them. Claiming that circumcision should be allowed because more stimulation isn't always good is a terrible argument.

And I'm not going to even get into how your idea of aesthetically pleasing should not be used as the basis for all medical procedures.

Those were subjective asides, not arguments, dear. Don't read into what isn't there.

If you're already circumcised, bemoaning the fact just makes you appear foolish and bitter, and accomplishes nothing. Choosing whether or not to let your child decide is the only proactive difference you can make. If I have children, any male will be circumcised for the health reasons listed throughout this thread. That's it.

 

[Oryx]

Those were subjective asides, not arguments, dear. Don't read into what isn't there.

If you're already circumcised, bemoaning the fact just makes you appear foolish and bitter, and accomplishes nothing. Choosing whether or not to let your child decide when he's old enough is the only proactive difference you can make.

Discussing it with others may also affect their decision. For example, I never looked into circumcision, and had no opinion on it at all, before I heard from people why they wish it had never been done. That caused me to research it and ask other people and form an opinion of my own about it. So speaking about it to other people, "bemoaning" it to use your (totally unbiased, I'm sure) word, is effective in my personal experience. I was moved by it to think of circumcision as an actual issue instead of something that doesn't really matter, since it did matter to those people and they had no way of reversing what was done to them.

If someone thinks that it shouldn't be done and has personal experience with it, I would encourage them to talk to people, in context of course. The opinion of someone who's been through it holds much more weight than us girls, if only because they're the one dealing with the consequences; all we can do is theorize.

 

[Esper]

I have not read through this thread and avoided it since I didn't want to get dragged into another controversial thread so apologies if I'm bringing up something already discussed, but I do want to say that I am against medically unnecessary procedures without consent. From what I understand this isn't a necessary procedure. To me, it's along the same lines as forcing a newborn with ambiguous genitalia to be surgically altered to appear as a boy or girl based on the parent's preference. Obviously they aren't nearly the same thing, but the idea behind them is.

 

[I Laugh at your Misfortune!]

Since you can't argue number three, you law is unconstitutional.
It looks like the courts are seeing things my way.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that article say that the main problem was that:

the proposed law prohibiting circumcision of male children violates a California law that makes regulating medical procedures a function of the state, not cities.

I'm not familiar with USA law so I might be completely misunderstanding it, but I thought that the judge took the ban off the ballot because it was dependant on a state-wide law, not something to be decided by individual cities. The actual context of circumcision never came up in the striking off. The ban was only taken off the ballot due more to bureaucracy than due to the actual matter at hand.

Or am I reading this article completely wrong?

 

[#Emochu]

Look, for females, it's bad and barbaric.

Males, it's a very good thing!
I had it done when I was like 3 weeks old.
Muslims do it, Jews do it, they do it in Japan and some other places.

It's very hygenic and makes your willy not look like an alien.

If you want to keep your dirty foreskin, then keep it!

 

[sirboulevard]

Ok, new blood on this argument.

I personally am circumcised. Was shortly after I was born. Personally I am opposed to it (and I have researched it). I do not, however, think it should be outlawed as there are plenty of people who are happy being circumcised as an infant. I may wish I had my foreskin, but my penis is my penis and I'm happy with it.

I do, however, think there needs to be more regulation as I have heard about people who's child was circumcised without the parents consent because of oversights and that it's the norm. There needs to be more information out there on the subject and parents should not make the decision for their child without knowing what could happen. There are also doctors who encourage it (older physicians) because for years medical schools labeled foreskin as something that had to be removed and no treatment options were added to textbooks (circa 1950s - 1960s).

As for legal rammifications, one of the Scandanavian countries banned circumcision (with included exemptions for religious and medically proven conditions [aka they have to show documentation the child NEEDS a circumcision]). I don't remember which one, Finland or Sweden I think...

I personally live in one of the Pacific Northwest states of the US and our rate is down to about 18% right now. So, up here it's going down regardless. I will leave my son intact and if he chooses to remove or modify his penis as an adult it's his choice. But I know there will still people who do that to their kids. Thank god we have the internet to become more aware of these things.

 

[Black Ice]

If you want to keep your dirty foreskin, then keep it!

too bad babies can't make that decision then huh

 

[Bluerang1]

I haven't commented here?

Your parents gave you life, let them do it to you if they wish.

 

[m2287]

it shouldnt be done to babies, only with consent

 

[#Emochu]

too bad babies can't make that decision then huh

It's like this:
Two choices: Clean and preventing diseases, looks better.
OR
Alienatic and gathers bacteria under Fskin, must always pull up if you need to pee to prevent a mess and getting urine under there. And then theres phimosis.

Theres no choice, it's best to be circumsized. Babies don't really make choices, it's up to the parents. I seriously don't see whats with you people thinking that boys shouldn't get circumsized. It's disgusting.

 

[Sire]

Look, for females, it's bad and barbaric.

Males, it's a very good thing!
I had it done when I was like 3 weeks old.
Muslims do it, Jews do it, they do it in Japan and some other places.

It's very hygenic and makes your willy not look like an alien.

If you want to keep your dirty foreskin, then keep it!

Circumcision being healthy is a plain myth. There is no advantage to being circumcised; in fact, foreskin sometimes enhances the pleasure of sexual intercourse. Your "alien" theory is an opinion, so stop spitting it in our faces like it's true. I also love how it's very wrong for females but good for males, apparently. Again, that's an opinion. If you think a female looks more attractive without circumcision, that's your opinion.

These certain religion groups do it because it used to be believed that foreskin was unhealthy to have, you generally wouldn't be accepted if you weren't circumcised, and their religious books or bibles told them to do it. It's also not right just because a few different religions support it.

I believe that circumcision is generally wrong. This is something that the child should make a decision about at an adult age. Foreskin won't grow back and I think the person getting circumcised should follow their opinion on the matter.

 

[twocows]

Being familiar with California law, I can assure you that circumcision does not fall under the banner of child abuse here.

You keep confusing "legal" with "morally tolerable." They're completely different things. Legalized child abuse is still child abuse and it's still wrong.

 

[Shining Raichu]

I haven't commented here?

Your parents gave you life, let them do it to you if they wish.

Uh... what? Just... huh? I don't even know what to do with this...

It's like this:
Two choices: Clean and preventing diseases, looks better.
OR
Alienatic and gathers bacteria under Fskin, must always pull up if you need to pee to prevent a mess and getting urine under there. And then theres phimosis.

Theres no choice, it's best to be circumsized. Babies don't really make choices, it's up to the parents. I seriously don't see whats with you people thinking that boys shouldn't get circumsized. It's disgusting.

Yeah, it is up to the parents, but that shouldn't be the case. This is something that should be taken out of parents' hands and given to the child when they're old enough to make such a decision. This is just another case of religion making a mistake and then sticking to it, no matter the evidence stacked against it.

And everything you've said about the benefits of circumcision is, as Sire has already said, a myth. And alien? Really? If that's not completely subjective I don't know what is.

 

[Anders]

I'm in two worlds about it. Despite not agreeing at all, I guess it should be a choice to make.

I just don't see why. I strongly believe nobody here is arguing it because they feel unhappy with their circumcised penis, that doesn't mean they can't argue against it but if the only argument is freedom of choice, I don't believe that's enough of a reason not to do something.

But like I said, I can't tell you you're wrong. I just know I'm happy to have been circumcised. If I grew up with foreskin it would suck to make the decision to have it cut off, which I would, because it's easier to have it done when you're a baby.

 

[twocows]

It's like this:
Two choices: Clean and preventing diseases, looks better.
OR
Alienatic and gathers bacteria under Fskin, must always pull up if you need to pee to prevent a mess and getting urine under there. And then theres phimosis.

Theres no choice, it's best to be circumsized. Babies don't really make choices, it's up to the parents. I seriously don't see whats with you people thinking that boys shouldn't get circumsized. It's disgusting.

So because you personally think it's cleaner, it should be forced on every child ever?

The human body is disgusting and dirty in plenty of ways. For instance, the intestines are the most bacteria-ridden organs in the body, with millions of times more bacteria and viruses than any other part. The appendix, which is attached to the intestines, can often times get blocked and infected, plus it is a completely useless organ. I still don't want to have mine removed unless the circumstances are life-threatening. Choice is the issue here, not your personal take on hygiene.

 

[-ty-]

I'm in two worlds about it. Despite not agreeing at all, I guess it should be a choice to make.

I just don't see why. I strongly believe nobody here is arguing it because they feel unhappy with their circumcised penis, that doesn't mean they can't argue against it but if the only argument is freedom of choice, I don't believe that's enough of a reason not to do something.

But like I said, I can't tell you you're wrong. I just know I'm happy to have been circumcised. If I grew up with foreskin it would suck to make the decision to have it cut off, which I would, because it's easier to have it done when you're a baby.

Please do not make generalizations about other people's reasons for their stance on this issue. I have had to undergo surgery twice after I was circumcised as an infant. First off, their is a nasty scar still. Secondly, adhesion are very common in this procedure. The skin, in an attempt to grow back, can extend over the glans creating a "bridge". This adds additional friction during sexual activity which causes redness and throbbing pain. And, like I said, this has happened to many people including myself; I think the article I referenced earlier from Men's Health stated that it was about 17% of men who have circumcision develop adhesion over the glans and/or scar tissue that causes pain and discomfort, resulting in sexual dysfunction. Every man has the right to a full anatomy and sexual function; just because you have not experienced any procedural mishaps, it doesn't mean that others haven't.

 

[Shizz]

Don't mean to be rude, but it's done as an infant for two reasons that I know of; They don't remember the pain of it, and then it's not as hard to clean, because it doesn't have foreskin to go back into, and when it does, I hear it requires a lot of maintenance to ensure that it doesn't get infected or something like that.

Besides; I /personally/ can't handle *ahem* uncircumcised sizes. I can't imagine how difficult it'd be for me and my fiancé to share tender moments. >n>;

 

[Rogue planet]

All surgery should take place with the consent of the individual it is performed on.
As children are too young to make the decision, no surgery should be performed on them unless it's for purely medical reasons.

That's all there is to it, imo.

Just because the parents want something for their child doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Parents wouldn't be allowed to surgically alter their children in any other way for no good reason, it shouldn't be allowed just because they "believe" it's the right to do. We're in 2011 now people.

 

[Bluerang1]

Please explain the flaming to my argument. You say "one of the worst arguments". "I don't know what to do with this". If you have nothing to say, don't quote. Even though it's your body, you can't make the decision as a baby, d'uh. It'll hurt too much when you're older and you probably won't want to do it which if fine. If your parents want ti for you, it's their choice, when you're a baby. Deal with it. Some of you just like making people look dumb when you don't agree. Make valid statements.

One more thing, this debate is a tad silly no? What does it matter if you're circumcised or not. Worse things happen to people, way worse.