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marijuana legalization

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Well it's generally understood by anyone who's taken an economics course that more government=less growth and less government=more growth. Government regulation, subsidization, taxation, trade blocks, tariffs, and welfarism/wealth redistribution hurt business. When a business makes less money there's less money for the government to take in. When those restrictions are lifted, economies boom and business flourishes. It's why laissez faire economics has been so prominent in capitalist, western nations. They're more developed, more industrialized, and generally freer. Free markets for free people as is said. The best thing a government can do is promote business, not deter it.

An economic course taught by whom? Glenn Beck? Besides shouting out talking points from a disgraced political party, do you have anything else to say?

Gahhh. I am just in utter disbelief how people can ignore what rampant greed has done to our country. Letting us have free reign over the economic scene has given us CEOs taking massive kickbacks. Businessmen CANNOT govern themselves.

You think when MONEY IS AT STAKE the people who are APT TO GAIN THE MOST are really going to think of the CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. GROW UP.

The Republican party, and anyone else who has consistently supported letting Wallstreet run wild, HAS ENABLED THE RECESSION WE ARE IN. THEY HAVE ENABLED GREED. THEY HAVE ENABLED COMPANIES TO MILK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR ANY PROFIT THEY CAN GET.

Why is MONEY your life and death? You know for all your christian points before, you sure as hell could care a little more about your fellow man. Not everything begins with a dollar sign. And taxes? Yes, it sucks to not get every cent you make. But so what. We, together, make up the United States of America. And we need to help pay for that. And you know what? Damn if I'm not proud that my tax money goes in part to support things like welfare for people who are down on their needs. Public schools so kids can get a better education. Roads so our country can have a stronger infrastructure. We need to help each other and focus less on how far we can independently get ahead.

Oh and by the way: ENRON.

ps- I love how much you love money though. It's always nice to see someone fight for something they love. Like the root of all evil.
 
Well it's generally understood by anyone who's taken an economics course that more government=less growth and less government=more growth. Government regulation, subsidization, taxation, trade blocks, tariffs, and welfarism/wealth redistribution hurt business. When a business makes less money there's less money for the government to take in. When those restrictions are lifted, economies boom and business flourishes. It's why laissez faire economics has been so prominent in capitalist, western nations. They're more developed, more industrialized, and generally freer. Free markets for free people as is said. The best thing a government can do is promote business, not deter it.

Hahaha I like the completely out of place reference to Economics

As a student who has taken Macro and Microeconomics (with a Conservative Professor--how's that for valid Agent Cobalt!), the only conclusion one can draw from government intervention is that the government corrects market failures. That would include when there's a recession; the government spends money in order to start up the economy again in order to have growth occur!

The thing that's killing small businesses these days are health care costs (wow what a nice transition into the other thread), which are the cause of privately owned businesses who happen to have an antitrust exemption, meaning that the government does not regulate how much the health insurance companies can force its customers to pay through premiums. That means that, in fact, less government HURTS businesses, and more government HELPS businesses.

But I digress, Agent Cobalt. After all,

[PokeCommunity.com] marijuana legalization


I just love my country so much!

Glenn Beck? That's a GREAT transition back to marijuana!
 
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An economic course taught by whom? Glenn Beck? Besides shouting out talking points from a disgraced political party, do you have anything else to say?
...Wow, no. Anyone who's studied the history of economics. And this is basic economics; no political party invented this. If you wanted to trace it back, however, you'd trace it to Thomas Jefferson's Democratic-Republicans.
Gahhh. I am just in utter disbelief how people can ignore what rampant greed has done to our country. Letting us have free reign over the economic scene has given us CEOs taking massive kickbacks. Businessmen CANNOT govern themselves.
??? Yeah, God forbid we let people run their own lives. You're the guy advocating drug legalization but doesn't think people should be allowed to enjoy the fruits of their labor? So the government shouldn't tell people not to use drugs but should tell them how much money they can make? Besides that, there's a difference between greed and self-interest.
You think when MONEY IS AT STAKE the people who are APT TO GAIN THE MOST are really going to think of the CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. GROW UP.
I'll grow up after you've figured out how to get a point accross without abruptly typing in caps like a child. Seriously, go read up on Adam Smith and the idea of the invisible hand. The invisible hand is the self-regulating nature of free markets. Businesses will change to make profits and gain consumer confidence. I expect people to look after their own interests in a free society. Otherwise you get a nanny state. A free market for free people. When businesses flourish, so do societies. If anything, it's childish to expect the government to manage the wallets of the people. I trust the citizen with his own many than I trust government beuracrats.
The Republican party, and anyone else who has consistently supported letting Wallstreet run wild, HAS ENABLED THE RECESSION WE ARE IN. THEY HAVE ENABLED GREED. THEY HAVE ENABLED COMPANIES TO MILK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR ANY PROFIT THEY CAN GET.
No, government intervention created this mess. It goes back to the 70's under Jimmy Carter. It's the result of getting government involved with housing, investing, banking, and loaning, and everything in between. Because the big government types passed legislation like the Community Reinvestment Act, the government gained influence in the economy and sold toxic loans and contributed to a housing bubble which itself helped weaken the stock market. Fannie and Freddie, do they ring a bell? That's what happens when government subsidizes business. Corporatism. Corporate welfare is still welfare.

Why is MONEY your life and death? You know for all your christian points before, you sure as hell could care a little more about your fellow man.
Because money represents our natural right to persue property. It's about freedom. A concept this nation was founded on. Money represents work. It's the end result of physical inpute or labor. If the input is labor then the output is profit. People pour their blood sweat and tears into earning their pay and it's unjust to take that from them, if not outright theft.
Not everything begins with a dollar sign.
No, but a capitalist society should reward hard work and labor, not punish it with bad policies.
And taxes? Yes, it sucks to not get every cent you make. But so what. We, together, make up the United States of America. And we need to help pay for that.
Yes, to an extent. There comes a point though when the amount asked of us is unjustified and too much. How much should we have to give before the oh merciful government grants us permission to keep what we make? The Constitution makes very clear what the role of government is and what is worthy of funding, and a nanny state isn't it. There used to
And you know what? Damn if I'm not proud that my tax money goes in part to support things like welfare for people who are down on their needs.
I've lived my whole life poor. Honestly, I'd rather charity went back to meaning charity. I prefer choice over coercion.
Public schools so kids can get a better education. Roads so our country can have a stronger infrastructure.
Those are constitutional roles of government.
We need to help each other and focus less on how far we can independently get ahead.

Oh and by the way: ENRON.
Two words- North Korea. What advocating sounds remarkably like socialism.
ps- I love how much you love money though. It's always nice to see someone fight for something they love. Like the root of all evil.
I think you're confused. I love freedom.

As a student who has taken Macro and Microeconomics (with a Conservative Professor--how's that for valid Agent Cobalt!)
As have I.
the only conclusion one can draw from government intervention is that the government corrects market failures. That would include when there's a recession
Never in our history, with the exception of establishing banks, has government intervention saved our economy. It didn't work during the Great Depression, during the Great Society, during Carter's presidency, and it's not working now.
the government spends money in order to start up the economy again in order to have growth occur!
Evidently Keynesian economics was what you were taught. You don't make money by getting in debt or devaluing your currency. The best you can hope to do is save jobs, not make jobs.
The thing that's killing small businesses these days are health care costs (wow what a nice transition into the other thread), which are the cause of privately owned businesses who happen to have an antitrust exemption, meaning that the government does not regulate how much the health insurance companies can force its customers to pay through premiums. That means that, in fact, less government HURTS businesses, and more government HELPS businesses.
Small businesses can afford to offer more benefits to their employees when the government taxes them less. It's also why they can hire more employees. And thank God they have anti-trust status. Last thing we need is to punish small businesses trying to make it big. Businesses should have less restrictions to encourage competition, which is one of the faults of anti-trust legislation.

But I digress, Agent Cobalt. After all,

[PokeCommunity.com] marijuana legalization


I just love my country so much!

Glenn Beck? That's a GREAT transition back to marijuana!
Where do you get this idea that I watch Glenn Beck? He's a good man, but he's uncomfortable to watch.
 
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I think you're confused. I love freedom.

You just went on to justify my point about loving money. It's not the people of the United States that are important to you, it's how you can take advantage of their money. :| Tsk tsk.

I think the general level of happiness among the governed is a much better indicator of prosperity. So we're going to never see eye to eye. I care about the needs of people. You care about how much you stand to gain.

There is no such thing as a free person. We all answer to something. You'd just rather we submit to the economy than anything else. Free market only means we're shackled by the need to make more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more money. So to argue we're freer people because there's no limit to our upwards mobility is a lie.

Not going to argue that our government didn't eff things up by getting mixed up in things they shouldn't have, but there are definite areas where government involvement can be quite positive. How'd we get through the Great Depression? Oh yeah the government had to hold up the economy so that our country could survive.

I'm just going to feel sad that you measure the success of your life in dollars. Life is about living. Enjoy the time you have and live it up. You worry so much about making as much as you can while you can but n-n-n-n-n-newsflash: it ain't coming with you when you die. Stockpile it all you want but a billion in the bank isn't going to improve your life :B

Maybe it's because you were poor that you think money is the be-all-end-all. After you actually get some and can afford whatever you want you'll realize it feels pretty empty. Or then again, maybe you'll get caught up in the figures and simply enjoy those six digit incomes. Maybe it gets you off. I dunno.

All I know is that there's more than life than money.

[PokeCommunity.com] marijuana legalization

ps- And as much as you want to scare me with the word "socialism"... who cares? Capitalism and Socialism both have their place and both can be abused. Absolutely no political analyst (who has any brains) is going to claim capitalism is a perfect system.

pps- You just remind us of good 'ol All American Glenn Beck. And you think he's uncomfortable to listen to? But, seriously, I'd probably say you haven't crossed into the Beck zone quite yet :p There's still hope for 'ya.
 
Man, that pic is funny. But getting back to marijuana, I just happened to listen to an Afroman song and I saw this thread when I first got to the Other Chat thread.

I think Chris Rock said it best, "People want to get high."
 
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The thing that's killing small businesses these days are health care costs (wow what a nice transition into the other thread), which are the cause of privately owned businesses who happen to have an antitrust exemption, meaning that the government does not regulate how much the health insurance companies can force its customers to pay through premiums. That means that, in fact, less government HURTS businesses, and more government HELPS businesses.
Small businesses can afford to offer more benefits to their employees when the government taxes them less. It's also why they can hire more employees. And thank God they have anti-trust status. Last thing we need is to punish small businesses trying to make it big. Businesses should have less restrictions to encourage competition, which is one of the faults of anti-trust legislation.
Both of you are wrong, yet partly right. The thing is that less government does help the economic status of America by letting companies have free reign to do whatever asanine methods they have that work well. But at the same time it doers two things, screw over the lower and middle classes by making the rich richer and hinder small buisnesses' ability to grow. More government doesn't work as effective as the before mentioned economically, but helps create a more equal envirorment of opprutunity and an overall better world/country.

The conservative choice (what Cobalt is suggesting) and the liberal choice (something like communism) are not good choices because of their downsides. What bothers me is that no one tries to pick more of a middle path with the best of both sides.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and Glenn Beck is comepletely insane, or he's really good at manipulating conservatives for the sake of the republican party.
 
You just went on to justify my point about loving money. It's not the people of the United States that are important to you, it's how you can take advantage of their money. :| Tsk tsk.
Dear God, where do you get this nonsense? What makes you think I want *anything* to do with their money? If you read my post you'd have come to the conclusion that, no, I don't want to control their wallets; I want to leave them alone. The only one's taking advantage of their money are those such as yourself who so often advocate confiscating their wealth, giving it to the government, and redistributing it. Again, because I care for the People, I want them to earn and make as much as they can.
I think the general level of happiness among the governed is a much better indicator of prosperity. So we're going to never see eye to eye. I care about the needs of people. You care about how much you stand to gain.
Caring about the people and serving their interests are two different things. Nobody will ever admit to no caring about people. I don't doubt you "care" about people or sincerity. I doubt your judgment on economic matters and on how best to serve the people. I care about the needs of the people too, I just think individualism far better promotes their well-being than government.

And what do *I* stand to gain? Look guy, I make minimum wage in a blue collar job and as a soldier. I'm not raking it in in any sense of the term. I still prefer the power of the individual over the government bureaucrat any day of the week. Outside of its legitimate functions, government doesn't function as well or efficiently as the private sector. So you can continue to demonize my belief in economic liberty as uncaring and unsympathetic, but it won't get you anywhere and it sure won't erase the fact that capitalism and not socialism was responsible for the abundance of wealth we've created. A free market is a healthy market. I stand to gain what exactly?
There is no such thing as a free person. We all answer to something. You'd just rather we submit to the economy than anything else. Free market only means we're shackled by the need to make more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more money. So to argue we're freer people because there's no limit to our upwards mobility is a lie.
This is really nothing more than a childish version of nihilism or something. You're not even arguing facts or evidence, just an odd spin of economic prosperity that honestly doesn't amount to much. Nobody "submits" to anything in a free market. The whole point of free markets is making people free of restraint, regulation, of submission. The freest societies on Earth are those which have in their time instituted trade and free markets. The nations with "shackles" more often than not reject those principles. Your description of capitalism is better suited for socialist nations like Cuba.

As for free people not existing... Free has a definition. A free person is one who is "enjoying personal rights or liberty, as a person who is not in slavery" Being free doesn't mean you don't obey laws or act responsibly. That's complete disregard for its meaning. It's like when a couple pages ago someone was throwing the word fascist at me without knowing what that word meant. Or intolerant. Or genocide. Or in your case, free. People need to stop using words outside of their meaning. Back on point though, yes, there are free people. Hundreds of millions of them.
Not going to argue that our government didn't eff things up by getting mixed up in things they shouldn't have, but there are definite areas where government involvement can be quite positive. How'd we get through the Great Depression? Oh yeah the government had to hold up the economy so that our country could survive.
This is a classic example of historical revisionism. The Great Depression only ended once the military industrial complex got geared up for war. The war industry (that's right, industry) saved the economy, as did the American workers. A war time economy brought us back. The New Deal actually deepened the Depression, and FDR even admitted he didn't know what he was doing. He was no economist and his policies screwed Americans. He raised marginal tax rates to over 90%. Do you really think that helped? FDR had FOUR terms as president. You'd think this magic government cure would have worked by the time WWII came around. FDR's policies didn't help the economy, even most economists that don't favor supply-side economics, have reached that conclusion. FDR taxed even more than Hoover, restricted trade, and attacked business and the American farmer.

WWII saved our economy. And even then, the Great Depression was only followed by temporary economic stability. After the war ended the economy took another dive. That's because government statism doesn't revive economies. Once the MIC took a backseat to social programs again, we felt the effects. The New Deal, the War on Poverty, the Great Society, Hope and Change. It doesn't work, never has, and never will. It's ridiculous to credit the government with "saving" our economy.
I'm just going to feel sad that you measure the success of your life in dollars.
More like I measure my success as a worker in what I make and earn.
Life is about living. Enjoy the time you have and live it up. You worry so much about making as much as you can while you can but n-n-n-n-n-newsflash: it ain't coming with you when you die.
You make it like all I care about is money. That's false. I do however recognize that merely "living" doesn't pay the bills. Money matters and money is important. Your quasi-apathy doctrine is unrealistic, Utopian, and a tad silly. It's dishonest to downplay the importance money has. Dollars isn't the reason for living, but it is what puts bread on the table. That's why it matters. Bread and butter issues matter to me, not being filthy rich and having it after death like some Egyptian Pharaoh.
Stockpile it all you want but a billion in the bank isn't going to improve your life :B
That's the most incorrect cliche ever.
Maybe it's because you were poor that you think money is the be-all-end-all. After you actually get some and can afford whatever you want you'll realize it feels pretty empty. Or then again, maybe you'll get caught up in the figures and simply enjoy those six digit incomes. Maybe it gets you off. I dunno.
You have a knack for trying to appear sympathetic to the plight of the disadvantaged, but when push comes to shove it's all rhetoric with nothing to back it up other than snide and rude remarks about another's upcoming of personal life. I'm still pretty poor. I don't think money is everything, nor love it, nor get off on it, and your characterizations are unfounded. Your insults are only overshadowed by your presumptions.
All I know is that there's more than life than money.
I never said otherwise.
ps- And as much as you want to scare me with the word "socialism"... who cares? Capitalism and Socialism both have their place and both can be abused. Absolutely no political analyst (who has any brains) is going to claim capitalism is a perfect system.
Considering capitalism has benefited mankind more than any other and has served as the best economic path to further the human condition, whereas socialism ruins nations and lives and slowly makes slaves of people, I think only one has a place in America. And I never said capitalism was perfect. Nobody ever has, not even the father of it, Adam Smith. Man is imperfect, and as such so too will his institutions; economics as well. However it's the most perfect kind out there.
pps- You just remind us of good 'ol All American Glenn Beck. And you think he's uncomfortable to listen to? But, seriously, I'd probably say you haven't crossed into the Beck zone quite yet :p There's still hope for 'ya.
The man cries on camera for no reason. I agree a lot with some of his principles, but he's too weird to watch. I do love his Obama Soviet national anthem, but really I prefer other sources of news and opinion.
 
I'm personally offended by secularist opposition to religion in the public square. It's alien, it's selfish, and it's historically false. Why? Why are people *so* outraged that someone in 2009 supports what every Founding Father supported in the 1780's? These snide remarks about Bibles being "magic books," non-sequiturs, pot shots at religion, and horrible comparisons to the Holocaust and Dark Ages really have no place here. And I say this, not because it weakens the debate, but because they're just sensationalist outbursts with no reason or thought behind them; they're just easy ways to try to diminish the other side without actually rebutting them.
Tell me two things.
1. Why should your religion be the one to rule the rest of us? I assume you'll provide one of two answers. "It's always been that way," which is just stupid, or "majority rule," which raises the question of why I should have to abide by their insane rules and ideals just because there are more of them. If you've got a reason that makes sense, shoot.

2. How is the Bible not a magic book, exactly? It's supposedly the direct word of an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good being (as co-authored by Jews from a few thousand years ago and a small selection of the less controversial followers of Jesus). The way that the religious crazies wave it around, you'd think they expect a lightning bolt to come out and zap my atheist ass (it's happened thousands of times, believe me; my ass could power a city by now). Or for the ones who've actually read it, perhaps an "enlightenment beam" will come out instead and make me suddenly realize that I've been wrong all along, and that their magic man clearly makes more sense than all the others.


And if you're going to argue the semantics of the word "fascism" despite what I obviously meant based on the context I used it in, I'll pick a more precise word to describe the position advocated by the far-right nutcases: "authoritarianism."

Yeah, God forbid we let people run their own lives.
So long as it follows the rules of your magic friend, right?
 
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