New vs Pre-Owned

[Captain Fabio]

Are Games Too Expensive?
I know we had this a while back, but I was reading an article and got thinking.

"We're basically all shooting ourselves in the foot," he declared. "Because when developers and publishers alike are going to see that they can't make a living out of producing games that are sold through retail channels, because of second-hand gaming, they will simply stop making these games." - Guillaume de Fondaumiere co-founder of Quantic Dream.

So, I am sure you are all aware that some gaming/retail shops sell pre-owned games. If you aren't sure how they work, the companies buy these games off consumers/gamers (us) and sell them for a marked up price and gain 100% of the profit. But what happens to the developers? They only get money from the original retail purchase, anything else after that they would lose money if you look at it as a sale lost.

What is your view on pre-owned games and full gaming prices?​

 

[Althea]

I guess everyone is out to make a profit, but I'm just out to save my money; I have precious little of it, and there is a lot I want to buy. Those who offer me the best price are going to get the sale. Quite often I'll buy games brand new, even if they've been out for a while, because online shops offer me the best deal and, whilst I'm impatient by nature, I am content to wait for a game to arrive if I'm going to save money on it.

So long as developers break-even, there isn't any real danger of them stopping making games I don't think, and a lot of lesser known video games companies that have been hit by financial crisis in the past, such as Nippon Ichi Software, have been reporting profits recently with their games, so I don't think the situation is bad enough to worry about. Shops need to make profits as well, and selling games pre-owned - even if the mark-up is horrendously unfair, but I'll avoid complaining about the trade-in prices - is a good way to do it I think.

If prices in shops for new games were a little more reasonable, then perhaps selling games pre-owned wouldn't be such a good tactic for them to make money, but between a £40+ RRP and a £20 or so pre-owned price, which are people going to take? Games have an awful depreciation rate, but the RRP doesn't change to compensate for this for quite a while, which is why people will buy pre-owned; the difference is often significant after a week or two.

Note that this only applies to shops on the high street: with online shopping, prices decrease proportionately over time. I guess this competition is one of the reasons trade-in is such a popular tactic for shops; they allow you to get rid of your old games and get some money back, and allow others to buy a game for a price not too different to what you could get brand new online.

Online retailers can afford to sell games brand new at a reduced price, and as long as they can continue to do that, I don't think there is any real danger of developers losing out on massive amounts of profits.

 

[Captain Fabio]

Just going to pick up on two points here! :3​

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So long as developers break-even, there isn't any real danger of them stopping making games I don't think...

But breaking even isn't exactly the best thing for a business; with no profit, then it isn't good business.​

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If prices in shops for new games were a little more reasonable, then perhaps selling games pre-owned wouldn't be such a good tactic for them to make money, but between a £40+ RRP and a £20 or so pre-owned price, which are people going to take? Games have an awful depreciation rate, but the RRP doesn't change to compensate for this for quite a while, which is why people will buy pre-owned; the difference is often significant after a week or two

I think the prices going us is, obviously, due to the high demand for better graphics and gameplay. With this comes more powerful hardware and then comes more team members to create games that live up to the expectation of being aesthetically pleasing, as well as playing amazingly. Believe me when I say it takes a very long time to produce anything that is top class graphically, because I have been there. Granted, there are more developers creating a AAA title, as opposed to me making an indie game, but the sheer amount of work that goes into creating a game is overwhelming and the last thing a games company would want is just to 'break-even'.

I have always said on this topic that I am bias towards the games companies because, I guess, I feel their pain. However, I know what it is like to be skint, because I am currently until pay day, haha.
As consumers, we will nearly always go for a cheaper option if it is there for us, because we are all tight with our money at some point, which isn't something one person can condone another with. I understand both sides of the debate and sympathise with both, but my personal preference is to try and buy full priced games at all times due to my views on the situation.​

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[Althea]

But breaking even isn't exactly the best thing for a business; with no profit, then it isn't good business.

True enough, but I would hope it'd be a learning process: if a game has only broken even with the initial sales, then it should be an indicator to companies that they haven't made a particularly good game, and that they need to try harder with their next game to attract the sales. I realise this probably isn't how it works in reality, but...well, one can hope.

I think the prices going us is, obviously, due to the high demand for better graphics and gameplay. With this comes more powerful hardware and then comes more team members to create games that live up to the expectation of being aesthetically pleasing, as well as playing amazingly. Believe me when I say it takes a very long time to produce anything that is top class graphically, because I have been there. Granted, there are more developers creating a AAA title, as opposed to me making an indie game, but the sheer amount of work that goes into creating a game is overwhelming and the last thing a games company would want is just to 'break-even'.

Honestly, I don't think there is that much of a demand for better gameplay, because people keep buying the same games over and over...but then, I'm a cynic who has been getting increasingly frustrated with what I perceive to be the shift towards graphics over gameplay with the current generation.

But, needless to say, I understand that it takes a while to make something, especially on the current hardware, and that companies will want to do more than just break-even with their games, but I would say that this is more of an industry problem than a problem with pre-owned games stealing profits, given how ridiculously big some developers are - Square Enix, Nintendo, etc - and how pretty much anything else that is even remotely similar that is made by a different company is labelled as a rip-off no matter how good it may be. I don't think retailers can be blamed entirely for that.

If companies want to do more than break-even, they need to make something truly astounding to justify the price. I suppose I'm in a minority when I say that all I'm interested in is how well it plays and how long it lasts me; for me at least, £40 for eight hours or less of gameplay is ridiculous, no matter how good or bad it looks. I don't care what a game looks like, I just want my money's worth, and I don't think the prices justify the length of the games being released at the moment, which is why I'd be more inclined to go with pre-owned a lot of the time if I couldn't find it for cheaper online.

I can understand why the prices have gone up, but I think that priorities have been mixed up and, until I see an improvement in the length of games and the quality and variety of gameplay, for the most part I am not willing to support developers.

 

[Oryx]

Fabio I do believe we started talking through this thread last time!

I still stand by my support of the used game industry like last time. As a company, their job is to make money. To be honest, everything they do has to do with money. If they increase the graphics, it's not to make the customer happier, it's to get more money out of it. They go for the things that make us pay the most with them paying the least. That's just how it works. If we want to live in a capitalist society, we have to accept that companies are out to take as much money from the consumer as possible.

Us as consumers are only expected to buy what we want. We're not expected to buy something more expensive due to its quality if we don't want to, things like that. Let's look at all the used game possibilities:

1. Person buys used game that they wouldn't have bought new.
2. Person buys used game that they would have bought new.
3. Person buys new game.

These are the three ways a game can be bought. Sometimes a game is bought used because the person won't buy it any other way, sometimes it's bought used just because it's there. In 2 of those 3 scenarios, the company is not losing money. In 1, they neither lose nor gain money, because that person wouldn't have bought the game anyway. In 3, they're gaining money because...well, the person bought the game. I would hazard a guess that most people, or at least most people I know, would fall into category 1 - they will only buy the game if it has the price cut from being used. So the company is neither gaining nor losing money on them, but they are possibly gaining reputation from the person playing the game.

 

[Kaean]

Pre-owned games help me alot, as do pre-owned systems and peripherals. I often times end up buying games and such for my siblings as well as mself as my parents don't have a lot of money, so instead of picking them up a fresh new copy of a game I'll grab a pre-owned if available.

I honestly believe that most people would prefer to buy a new copy of a game rather then a pre-owned one but the price just doesnt justify it. Why would I spend an extra $20 on a game new if I can get it cheaper? If the industry would come down in price 5-10 dollars I think they'd get more games being bought new, which would offset the lose from selling the game cheaper.

 

[Oryx]

Pre-owned games help me alot, as do pre-owned systems and peripherals. I often times end up buying games and such for my siblings as well as mself as my parents don't have a lot of money, so instead of picking them up a fresh new copy of a game I'll grab a pre-owned if available.

I honestly believe that most people would prefer to buy a new copy of a game rather then a pre-owned one but the price just doesnt justify it. Why would I spend an extra $20 on a game new if I can get it cheaper? If the industry would come down in price 5-10 dollars I think they'd get more games being bought new, which would offset the lose from selling the game cheaper.

I was going to make the point of prices being too high, but honestly if the price of new games was down to about 40 instead of about 60, used games would sit at 20-30 instead of 40-50, and you would probably still end up buying the used one. :x Since it's all profit for the used games sellers, they can afford to keep their prices lower than the new games no matter what new games are.

 

[Alley Cat]

I RARELY ever buy games new. They are too expensive, and just plain annoying. I would rather buy two used games at 30 each, than buy one of the games new at 60. I mean, as long as I can look at the disk and see that it is in an acceptable condition, I'll be fine. But I share pain with some people, as sometimes you bring a game home and it doesn't work, which is the MINIMAL risk involved in buying a used game.

There might be something more prestigious about having a collection of flawless games, but I don't really care. If it can play, it can play. I keep my games in good condition, so I don't need to worry about that. New games are just too over-priced. The dozens of hours played tend not to be worth the dozens of hours you worked just to buy that game.

 

[Ephemeral Euphoria]

Used to buy them new when I had a GC but nowadays I prefer them pre-owned as that means they're relatively cheaper.

 

[Razer302]

I love pre owned games. Without them I wouldn't have found some absolute gems I bought only because they were cheap.

The part I am starting to hate is that they are now doing the online passes so you have to pay to play online if you buy it pre owned. Which I really hate.

 

[Chikara]

If a game is just coming out and I want it, I'll buy it new. When a game recently came out, it's only discounted by like $5, and it's kind of hard to find used new games anyway.

But I buy used as much as possible. If they have it used, I'll get it. But I like getting games as soon as they're out :)

 

[Captain Fabio]

The part I am starting to hate is that they are now doing the online passes so you have to pay to play online if you buy it pre owned. Which I really hate.

Thank you for bringing that up, old buddy old pal.
Because I want to ask what people think about the 'online passes'. If you haven't heard of them, they are essentially a one off fee of, normally, $10 that you will need if you have bought a pre-owned game and you want online capabilities with it.

"Online pass is "necessary for games," insists Mortal Kombat creator..."
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[Shining Raichu]

I only ever buy my games new. This is more out of my own preference (and fear of getting a scratched disc) than it is out of charitable feelings toward the game developers, because to be honest the thought of them only getting money for the original purchase never crossed my mind until I read this thread. Money isn't really that much of an issue in my life because I work as opposed to studying like most people on PokeCommunity, and I still live at home so I have no bills lol my parents are suckers. Because of this, the prices don't generally tend to bother me.

As far as the game developers are concerned, I think they should make a clause in their contracts with retailers that they get a % of the profits made on games sold more than once, even if it's a diminished percentage. This way it wouldn't impact too harshly on the profits of the retailer and it'd give the developers a bit of extra pocket money to keep creating new games for us!

 

[Captain Fabio]

As far as the game developers are concerned, I think they should make a clause in their contracts with retailers that they get a % of the profits made on games sold more than once, even if it's a diminished percentage. This way it wouldn't impact too harshly on the profits of the retailer and it'd give the developers a bit of extra pocket money to keep creating new games for us!

I agree.
I feel that if they took 5%-10% of the sales, then it would overtake the 'online passes' idea. If the passes was scraped and 5% - 10% of sales were given to the developers, then it would solve the problem. However, I highly doubt any company would do that.​

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[Oryx]

I agree.
I feel that if they took 5%-10% of the sales, then it would overtake the 'online passes' idea. If the passes was scraped and 5% - 10% of sales were given to the developers, then it would solve the problem. However, I highly doubt any company would do that.​

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The problem is that there are so many of them that they have to work as a group and not as a single game developer. One developer insists on that in a contract, either his games don't go on shelves or they go on at 70 bucks to offset the cost instead of 60. Then people don't buy the game because of price.

But if all developers started doing it at once, then the major games would all be bumped at the same time. Then we pay more, though.

 

[Captain Fabio]

The problem is that there are so many of them that they have to work as a group and not as a single game developer. One developer insists on that in a contract, either his games don't go on shelves or they go on at 70 bucks to offset the cost instead of 60. Then people don't buy the game because of price.

But if all developers started doing it at once, then the major games would all be bumped at the same time. Then we pay more, though.

Yep, pretty much why I said it would never happen! XD
Pretty much like you said, it isn't just game shops that sell pre-owned games, so it would be near impossible to tie them all down into a commission contract.​

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[Zaspien]

I only ever buy my games new as well but it's purely because I'm a bit of a perfectionist and buying something that someone has previously owned (basically not new) just doesn't feel right to me. I know they tend to be a bit more expensive but they normally aren't too steep of a difference to the price of a pre-owned game.

In a hypothetical scenario where a game that is recent game which was released was being sold pre-owned, chances are the price drop is only something like £5 (~$9-10) so I think forking out the extra money to buy a new game, in that scenario, is extremely advantageous.

 

[Mew~]

Well, from a general point of view, I usually just buy a game pre-owned if it doesn't strike my interest enough to buy it for £30, so if I ever see it any cheaper pre-owned, or even just cheap after a while I'd buy it due to it at least being worth it.

 

[Rogue planet]

I buy games as cheap as I can get them. One of the reasons I'm not an avid gamer any more is because of the prices we're expected to pay for a recent game.

My favourite game of 2010, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, was about £15 when it was first released. It was an incredible game, with good graphics, a great soundtrack, and a plot that had care put into it. Released by a small independent company, and they still manage to survive by selling their games at cheap prices.
Games like CoD cost £50. I understand there's a lot more staff to pay etc. for larger companies, but seeing as it's almost guaranteed they're going to get an insane amount of sales, do they really have to charge so much? It seems like they're just trying to rake in as much cash as they can because they know people will still buy it. Black Ops is nearly a year old now, it still costs £50 for a new copy. Red Dead Redemption was also released last year, now it's £10 for a new copy.

And there's always the chance that I get a game and then don't like it. So I've essentially just wasted a ton of cash. I'm sure game developers do work hard, but so do tons of other people in the word, I'm sure there are people that are in worse situations.
I could potentially buy a pre-owned game, and then give the money I saved to charity. I'm totally not going to do that, but THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

I really don't remember games ever being this expensive. It's like the prices slowly creep upwards as the years go by.


But yeah I usually buy old games anyway so the prices are really cheap, so I can just get it new. I might buy SH:DP when it's released, so I'll pay full price for that BUT ITS SILENT HILL SO I WILL PAY ANYTHING.

 

[Brendino]

Even just a couple of years ago, I think every game that I bought was pre-owned, and the only time I ever got a new game was if it was a gift. I honestly didn't care if the game was pre-owned, as long as it was in good condition, because I preferred to pay less on it then an unopened copy of the same game.

Recently, though, I've been reluctant to buy used games, because most companies are using this "online pass" technology where you have to pay to play online, but only if you didn't use the free code that comes with a new game. I understand that this is a good strategy for them because it helps recover some of the previously unseen revenue, but I've noticed that places like GameStop or EB Games usually have their used games exactly $10 less than the new ones. And the price for an online pass is, you guessed it, $10.

I do agree with the point that Captain Fabio made about taking 5-10% of the sales. The problem with this is, with so many developers and influx of trade-ins and re-selling, it would be very difficult to figure out which companies are entitled to their piece of the pie. I believe that the best way to combat this would have the companies charge a place like Gamestop a little bit more to be able to sell the games (say 65% of the sale price instead of 60%). That way, this sort of pays for any future trade-ins up front, while the re-seller wouldn't have to deal with the hassle of figuring out exactly how much should go out for each used game bought.