North Carolina passes same sex marriage ban

[Livewire]

https://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_...oks-constitutional-same-sex-marriage-ban?lite

The amendment says: "Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State." In effect, it would bar the state from giving legal recognition to civil unions between same-sex couples.


Under North Carolina law, same-sex marriages are already banned.
And opponents of the constitutional amendment did not make the argument that defeating it was a prelude to changing the law so that same-sex couples could legally marry in North Carolina.
"This is not a conversation about a possible change of law down the road," said Paul Guequierre, a spokesperson for the Coalition to Protect All North Carolina Families, the main group rallying opposition to the amendment, on Monday.


By approving the amendment, North Carolina joins 28 other states that have state constitutional provisions limit marriage to man-woman unions.


On Monday Peter Sprigg, the senior fellow for policy studies at the conservative Family Research Council in Washington said, "Marriage remains an essential social institution which unites men and women to provide for the reproduction of the human race and to provide mothers and fathers for children. We trust that the voters of North Carolina will recognize and protect this vital public purpose of marriage."
But President Barack Obama had opposed the amendment. "While the president does not weigh in on every single ballot measure in every state, the record is clear that the President has long opposed divisive and discriminatory efforts to deny rights and benefits to same sex couples," Cameron French, Obama's North Carolina campaign spokesman, said in March.


A Gallup Poll released Tuesday showed the American people split on the same-sex marriage question: 50 percent think marriages between same-sex couples should be recognized by the law as valid, but 48 percent think they should not be recognized as legal. Among Democrats, 65 percent say same-sex marriages should be recognized by the law as valid, but among only about one in five Republicans hold that view. Among independents, 57 percent think sex marriages should be legally recognized.


Thirty-eight states have prohibitions of same-sex marriage in their laws. Six states and the District of Columbia allow same-sex marriages.

Thoughts?

 

[TRIFORCE89]

I'm for gay marriage. The "God's will" argument for banning gay marriage is fundamentally flawed as it deals only with the state's definition and would not influence religious practice. That its a threat to heterosexual marriage also doesn't make sense. If the legality of gay marriage is what's preventing you from leaving your wife and hooking up with a dude, then I think you may want to re-evaluate your marriage.

Just about any argument against gay marriage I don't personally accept. But, I can see that there are arguments. But... how can there be an argument about a civil union? That makes even less sense.

 

[Mr. X]

Thats the great thing about America.

We have the right to deny you your rights, and you can't do anything about it.

At least with other countries, they will at least be honest about being full of ****. Here, we try to hide it behind 'This is what the people want.'

Edit - As for the gods will arguement, theoretically the seperation of church and state SHOULD have stopped that full of crap corrupted ideology right in its tracks. People ask why I'm Agnostic? It's reasons like this. Corrupting religion to suit the purpose of a specific group of people.

 

[droomph]

Thats the great thing about America.

We have the right to deny you your rights, and you can't do anything about it.

At least with other countries, they will at least be honest about being full of ****. Here, we try to hide it behind 'This is what the people want.'

Edit - As for the gods will arguement, theoretically the seperation of church and state SHOULD have stopped that full of crap corrupted ideology right in its tracks. People ask why I'm Agnostic? It's reasons like this. Corrupting religion to suit the purpose of a specific group of people.

Don't be agnostic, man! Yeah, those aren't the best Christians.

I want to kick every last one of them in the crotchal area right now. That's not respect, and if it's God's will or whatever then you can't eat shellfish either. It's all or nothing, so you either become Jewish or you leave us alone.

 

[Oryx]

It just really baffles me how this issue could honestly be so divisive. If it was just a few people, like the Westboro Baptist Church and some other people that right-wing, I would be able to write it off as "people being crazy and illogical", but there's just so many people. I can't subscribe to the idea that 48% of our population is entirely irrational, but I can't come up with any other real reason why you would oppose gay marriage. :(

 

[Sydian]

Well, that's to be expected. Hmph. Getting married in North Carolina is tacky anyway. Get married somewhere prettier, ladies and gents. Land of the free my ass. I was surprised about the civil union thing too. It's just randomly there. Also:

"Marriage remains an essential social institution which unites men and women to provide for the reproduction of the human race and to provide mothers and fathers for children. We trust that the voters of North Carolina will recognize and protect this vital public purpose of marriage."

Oh honey, you ain't gotta be married to reproduce and add to the population. They say that as if having a ring on your finger activates your genitals. That's not much to do with the topic at hand, but I just wanna point that out. Shows how far back they are.

 

[Mr. X]

Most of the hate is only because of the religious indoctrination.

More often then not, if you ask a person why they do not support gay marriage rights, or even gay rights in general, you'll get a response that is pretty much 'blah blah blah blah God'

Not really related, but whenever a topic like this comes up I always add this or some varient so...

America is the land of the free. Well, more like the land of people who are completely full of ****. Know why? This country was founded by slave owners... Who wanted to be free. Face it people, this country has been a farce right from the start.

 

[Oryx]

Oh honey, you ain't gotta be married to reproduce and add to the population. They say that as if having a ring on your finger activates your genitals. That's not much to do with the topic at hand, but I just wanna point that out. Shows how far back they are.

In the same vein, it's also possible to get married and choose not to reproduce, or get married and not be able to reproduce. I wonder how much people would protest if the law said "Marriage is defined as a union between two people that are both capable of and willing to have children"? I bet people who are barren and want to get married or people who love their SO but don't want kids would all freak out and protest about their rights.

 

[Mr. X]

It's completely unfair in all regards.

"Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State."

Seeing this really hurts because they'll only recognize a normal marriage between a man and a woman? What will happen with all the same-sex couples? Will they be discriminated upon?

Yes, it will. Essentially, if you had been married were gay marriage is legal and you move their, then in the eyes of that state you are not married.

Before this, they still recgonized them, even though they were banned in that state. (I think)

However, this far oversteps just marriage. This also means that the state will no longer recognize, or allow, civil unions.

 

[Esper]

North Carolina has just made it easier for Obama to win that state by giving progressives something more to rally around.

Sucks to be even a straight couple who only want a civil partnership without the marriage.

Oh honey, you ain't gotta be married to reproduce and add to the population. They say that as if having a ring on your finger activates your genitals.

Didn't you know that humans are equipped with matrimony glands in the lower abdomen which receive chemical signals from the brain when skin cells on the ring finger interact with metallic compounds while the brain simultaneously perceives a constant feeling of pressure around the ring finger?

 

[FreakyLocz14]

This was to be expected. North Carolina may not be in the Deep South, but it still has a lot of Deep South culture; especially in the southern parts of the state.

North Carolina has just made it easier for Obama to win that state by giving progressives something more to rally around.

I'm not too sure about that. Liberals were plenty rallied to defeat Prop 8 in California, and the proposition still ended up passing despite Obama's large victory in state.

 

[psyanic]

More often then not, if you ask a person why they do not support gay marriage rights, or even gay rights in general, you'll get a response that is pretty much 'blah blah blah blah God'

Man, I can't agree more. I live in North Carolina and a ton of people were in full support for something that was against gay-marriage just for this reason. In school, I asked a few of my friends why they were against it without mentioning religion, and they said, "Oh, it's just unnatural. Humans shouldn't do that!" What's funny is that you can marry your cousin here... Whoops.

The amendment itself was just oppressing the LGBT community, since gay marriage was already illegal, and now they made it next to impossible for it to ever be legal. And then there's the fact that unmarried couples - civil unions, really - now have less rights, like child custody and domestic violence protection.

 

[Mr. X]

Your forgetting that with this, they will no longer recognize gay marriages that were LEGALLY preformed in other states. I don't know the specifics, but as marriage liscences DO cost money, could this theoretically fall under the federal commerce act?

I don't know if its possible to get a amendment overturned by the supreme court, but from my interpretation this here 'amendment' goes against the seperation of church and state, specifically the part where the government will make no laws that interfere with how a church is ran.

I know that its a pretty flimsy argument, but as most of the supporters are seeing marriage from a religious, church-ish, point of view then this amendment does violate the constitution. And given that Christianity, usually, doesn't allow for gay-marriages and some other, much smaller religions do, then this could also been seen as trying to supress other religions in favor of one.

Give it a couple more days, and I'm willing to bet that some of the pro gay-marriage people will come up with this thought as well.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Your forgetting that with this, they will no longer recognize gay marriages that were LEGALLY preformed in other states. I don't know the specifics, but as marriage liscences DO cost money, could this theoretically fall under the federal commerce act?

I don't know if its possible to get a amendment overturned by the supreme court, but from my interpretation this here 'amendment' goes against the seperation of church and state, specifically the part where the government will make no laws that interfere with how a church is ran.

I know that its a pretty flimsy argument, but as most of the supporters are seeing marriage from a religious, church-ish, point of view then this amendment does violate the constitution. And given that Christianity, usually, doesn't allow for gay-marriages and some other, much smaller religions do, then this could also been seen as trying to supress other religions in favor of one.

Give it a couple more days, and I'm willing to bet that some of the pro gay-marriage people will come up with this thought as well.

The federal Defense of Marriage Act says that states do not have to recognize same-sex marriages from other states. It also applies to civil unions and domestic partnerships.

 

[Mr. X]

It doesn't specifically say that they do not have to, or that they have to. It leaves the choice up to the state.

However, they did before this amendment if I remember correctly, and it did change with this amendment.

Government is ment to protect its citizens, not discriminate against them. What I really find sad is that if the Federal government did try to step up and stop this blatant state-level discrimination it would be seen as a power grab.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

It just really baffles me how this issue could honestly be so divisive. If it was just a few people, like the Westboro Baptist Church and some other people that right-wing, I would be able to write it off as "people being crazy and illogical", but there's just so many people. I can't subscribe to the idea that 48% of our population is entirely irrational, but I can't come up with any other real reason why you would oppose gay marriage. :(

I think something like 43 states have it banned. Most of which, I'd assume, based on votes from the people.

I don't think all of the hate is based on religion. I'm sure there are probably a bunch of other equally illogical reasons. None of which I can think of, mind you. Just general stupidity, ignorance, misinformation, and unsubstantiated fear.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

It doesn't specifically say that they do not have to, or that they have to. It leaves the choice up to the state.

However, they did before this amendment if I remember correctly, and it did change with this amendment.

Government is ment to protect its citizens, not discriminate against them. What I really find sad is that if the Federal government did try to step up and stop this blatant state-level discrimination it would be seen as a power grab.

DOMA says that states can't be compelled (forced) to recognize same-sex unions from other states. The law passed when Congress feared that the Hawaii Supreme Court might make same-sex unions legal in Hawaii (they ended up not doing so), so they passed the law to exempt other states from recognizing them via the Full Faith and Credit Clause.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Living here for around five years, I really expect no less from the people around here, especially with the ethnic blockiness of the different portions of this state. Nearly every extended relative and friend I know that lives here throws the God excuse at me the moment I ask them about things like this. Let me tell you that "God's will" to the corrupt citizens and clergymen is nothing more than an empty reason with no real meaning to the people using it here, a scapegoat excuse for practiaclly any kind of bullsh*t they want to say is true or factual. I'm not saying "God's will" is an empty excuse for everybody, but highlighting its great misuse by unintelligent and/or corrupt people.

Watch them pull more legislation out of that hat of stupidity and hatred, be it in NC or the US in general.

 

[Oryx]

I think something like 43 states have it banned. Most of which, I'd assume, based on votes from the people.

I don't think all of the hate is based on religion. I'm sure there are probably a bunch of other equally illogical reasons. None of which I can think of, mind you. Just general stupidity, ignorance, misinformation, and unsubstantiated fear.

I mean the general public. I believe the overall opinion poll is about 50/50, but leaning towards anti-gay marriage.

There's also just the general idea that gay marriage is 'gross' and 'unnatural', just because people are used to see straight couples and not gay ones.

Here's an infographic that I posted in LGBT club about this but I figured it would fit here too:

 

[droomph]

If it's not something like statistical coincidence I think we really need to educate people on LGBT stuff.

And I wonder why do church and religion not separate like they're supposed to.