PC Wiki

[Nick]

• PC is not Smogon
• PC is not Bulbagarden
• PC is not Serebii

Really? I could have sworn PC was all those things, last I checked. This is a revelation and I feel the press must be notified immediately.

 

[avengeraziel]

I have 3 major problems with this idea

• PC is not Smogon
• PC is not Bulbagarden
• PC is not Serebii

No one is trying to make PC into any of these websites. PC's forums will always be the foremost feature of PC, seeing as it is a COMMUNITY.

In my honest opinion, what makes PC stand out above all the rest is that it does not try to dictate how the fandom operates, acts or even hacks. In fact the charm point about PC is the fact that even the most green and wet behind the ears ROM hackers can come here and try their ideas. Without pressure. Without being given more than the basic knowledge one needs to ROM hack. PC's wealth of support and information is in it's forum and it should always stay that way. Putting everything out there on a Wiki would be difficult, and it would require a LOT more staff oversight than most staff members here would think, and a Wiki Staff would need to be appointed and so on.

How would a clear, enclycopedic list of resources and tutorials dictate how the fandom operates or acts? and do you seriously think that every person has their own "way" of hacking? That's absurd. Hacking is dealing with hex codes and the myriad of programs that this community has produced, and those only do so much, and there's only one or two ways to do something to get a desired result. this wiki would show the best ways to do these things, so that hackers and modders (ESPECIALLY the green and wet behind the ears ones) could stop sweating the small stuff and get to the stuff that hopefully makes their hack stand out: the storyline (as well as any 'ideas' or features they figure out and add to their rom and/or the wiki). This idea would literally eliminate any pressure that new hackers feel, because they would have a real guide to go by for their ideas and hacks. And hackers, especially new ones, want more than the bare basics if they hope to learn quickly how to build innovative, quality hacks
I don't want to speak for the moderators for the Emulation sub-forum, but I would be happier moderating for a wiki than a thread because its a much easier beast to regulate. PC's wealth of support will most likely stay in the forum even after the creation of the wiki, but the info would be more streamlined and much more navigable in a wiki than any thread could hope to be. Seeing as the Emulation sub-forum has only two mods (who do an excellent job), I don't see why the wiki would need more than two objective moderators to help in that endeavor.

So why not just K.I.S.S and be done with it?

How is a wiki NOT simple? As long as there are facts to back up any information or claims, a wiki is as simple as it gets. Even most wiki syntax is WYSIWYG. Do you consider Wikipedia's information portal to be infinitely complex?

The biggest problem with a Wiki which is a fixed source of information is opposition of change once it's complete. Editors defend their work rabidly, and if the initial main contributors are given Admin or Stewardship rights on the Wiki, you can forget that thing ever evolving with information the way a forum can.

Opposition of change is what kills forums too, including people against any change in their community because they think everyone else on their forums is too lazy/stupid to recognize the import of a wiki in being a critical resource in helping newbies learn how to compete with our big hitters on the PC forums.
Editors could/would only defend their work to the point of it being correct. If it is not, no amount of complaining is going to make it so, and that's the only concern of a wiki: facts, regardless of who first proposes them. Information is empirical, and only empirical data is worthy of wiki inclusion. Again, the whole point of a wiki: to separate the opinions from fact, to be a clear, concise information gateway. That is the rule of thumb that brought wikis into prominence in the first place. Why does a wiki need to evolve like a forum can? A forum is a glorified conversation, and a wiki is a glorified textbook: why does a wiki need to emulate a forum in any way?

Lastly we all know that "If you build it they will come" is not true. If our newbies won't even read a sticky thread, what makes you think a Wiki would be read?

A General Pokemon wiki from PC will just look like a pathetic attempt to rival places like Serebii, Smogon and Bulbapedia, and therefore our "Wiki" would be limited to ROM hacking topics and that's just not enough info for a wiki in my opinion.

'If you build it they will come is absolutely true' in this case, and the creation of PC in the first place is the prime example. As the epicenter of rom hacking, as Karpman stated, PC has an obligation to those hackers to give them the resources they want and need to better supply them with quality help, unless it is the goal of PC to rid itself of rom hackers entirely.
And who says newbies don't read sticky threads? Do you have that much contempt for your perceived 'stupidity' of other users to think that a sticky thread goes unread by all, and how could you be so naive to think that a sticky thread is the end-all be-all of information? Like I said in an earlier post, if that was the case, all wikis would be forums. I know the wiki would be read because it is all the information, with none of the banality. Would anyone ever read a textbook again if the authors were constantly fighting within its pages, truncated by the occasional fact? It would become obsolete immediately, except for its entertainment value, which I'm pretty sure a textbook, or any body of information, isn't going for.

A general pokemon wiki would be a pathetic attempt to rival these other websites, but no one has proposed we do that. We have had three main ideas for the use of the wiki which has nothing to do with these websites, and of which these other websites steadfastly refuse to cater to:

1. Rom hacking resource
2. Fakemon Pokedex
3. Competitive Battling Community.

If that's not enough of a reason to create a wiki to cater to an unmet need, then what is?

 

[Oryx]

In addition Pachy, I don't think this suggestion is directed at the people that don't read stickies. While you claim that "newbies don't read stickies", you know that's not true in every case. Besides, this suggestion isn't for newbies who don't read stickies. It's to help newbies that want an easy-to-navigate source of information for whatever they need.

The more avenge expands on this, the more I like the idea. I'm still wary of expanding it beyond the realm of hacking, but I could definitely see the use of a wiki for that.

 

[Zeffy]

1. Rom hacking resource
2. Fakemon Pokedex
3. Competitive Battling Community.

If that's not enough of a reason to create a wiki to cater to an unmet need, then what is?

1. There is a PC ROM hacking wiki, I believe. Although, I might be wrong. However, seeing that most people who joins PC are in for the hacks, then, I believe, we could have one. The possible problem is, though, is that if someone decides to completely ban the edit of any Pokemon ROMs, which would probably end up in a lower hacking population.

2. Honestly, I don't see why PC needs a Fakedex. It isn't something as important as an RH wiki or a competitive battling wiki, but it is something worthwhile as an event.

3. I've seen a PC competitive battling wiki, even trying to write up something for Cofagrigus in it. I don't think it has been released to the public yet though. It was Jake who was the mastermind of this, I believe.

 

[avengeraziel]

I added a poll to this thread, and in my haste, i totally put the wrong word. i meant addition, not edition.

The more avenge expands on this, the more I like the idea. I'm still wary of expanding it beyond the realm of hacking, but I could definitely see the use of a wiki for that.

I appreciate the support Toujours, and anybody else's support that thinks this is a good idea. I feel this would strongly re-catalyze the hack community we have here. I would also be quite happy to help in any way to make this become a reality.

I ask that anyone interested (or against) spread the word and vote in the poll so we can have a more accurate depiction of the user populace's feelings on this.

Hopefully if we get enough people on board, and enough moderators willing to support this, we could make this an actual thing.

Zeffy:
1. Seeing from the already posted responses, I really don't think this is the case, but I am striving to make it such. And if PC bans rom hacking on here, I think it would be pretty detrimental to the community at large. If Nintendo banned it, that would be a travesty. But I think Nintendo wouldn't do that because a wiki was started, seeing as the forums for rom hacking are huge, and they've been neutral about that, as long as we don't sell rom hacks.

2. To be frankly honest, and I may get backlash because of this, I don't necessarily like fakemon, and generally don't play hacks that have them, but seeing the vast multitude of fakemon that users have created, I would assume they would like a bulbapedia-esque outlet to host them, so they could make public pokedex entries for them, and have attached files for others to be able to incorporate them, given permission of course. And I only say bulbapedia-esque in this case, because bulbapedia is the meta-pokedex to end all pokedexes. This of course would not tread on bulbapedia's shoes, because it would be only pokemon that are not Nintendo properties or copyrighted, which is bulbapedia's territory.

Maybe people could even make pages for their regions, separate from their rom hack pages? It would help others understand in-hack regions better, and could even result in a PC region (possibly?) or an alt-universe/timeline that is congruent between different users hacks? I'm just shooting off the top of my head, but I think some people would get a kick out of it, and maybe even allow PC users have more to congregate and share ideas for. This is what i mean about the wiki not being necessarily limited, and multitudes of users and sub-forums being able to get in on the fun.

3. If this is so, great! Can we get a sample or screenshot of this? Maybe to help others visualize what we are talking about better.

 

[aRedMoon]

Webbies could get some use out of it. Recomended hosts, that sort of thing. Replace that godawful sticky that I've been meaning to rewrite.

Clubs could use it as a base as well. Like keeping a current member list.

I'm sure there are other things, but I'm half asleep anyways...

 

[Oryx]

Webbies could get some use out of it. Recomended hosts, that sort of thing. Replace that godawful sticky that I've been meaning to rewrite.

Clubs could use it as a base as well. Like keeping a current member list.

I'm sure there are other things, but I'm half asleep anyways...

What about a challenge archive? For all the ones that have since fallen so far back that no one sees them, and possibly with a list of everyone that completed it, all nice and archived. :3

 

[aRedMoon]

Fanfic could also use it, as an author repository or something.

There are lots of uses for a wiki.

But I wouldn't call it a wiki - I'd call it the PC Resource Center or something (rc.pokecommunity.com)

 

[bobandbill]

Fanfic could also use it, as an author repository or something

There's already a Completed fic subsection as well as a thread sticky in the main section in which authors can list what fics they've posted. Not against a wiki for that per say but not sure how tailored it would be for such a thing/if it should replace what's already there personally.

 

[aRedMoon]

It isn't the most user friendly. Being able to split it up to multiple pages would be nice. Also, each author could have a page to list all their fanfics, sorta like a ff.net profile.

We could also utilize the categories system on wiki for the stories, so you could have a list of "Pokemon Suspense" stories, all listed under it.


And for what it's worth, I'd be willing to help set it all up. I know a decent amount of playing around with wikis, and own both the Digimon and Golden Sun ones. (Or, well, I host them and admin on 'em)

 

[quilzel]

I think having a PokeCommunity Wiki would be cool, but only on the Community. Like replacing the FAQ page with a Wiki. I don't think we need to try and rival Bulbapedia. I think entries on notable members (staff and very famous members*coughZetcough*), how to's and the such would be a great idea. If we try and create another Pokemon Wiki then we would just be wasting our times as there are already several of those.

 

[avengeraziel]

I think there is some slight confusion. By no means am I suggesting we somehow recreate someone else's wiki. But not all pokemon wikis are perfect and none of them contain or support the information we are proposing. There is no way we can step on anybody's toes or offend anyone or waste our time when we are giving out info that is ours to give, as PC is the only modding friendly site, and every idea we have all had has nothing to do with other communities. We are proposing a PC Wiki, where it has to do with PC related topics and pages.

Again, just because we are a pokemon centric site, and there are pokemon centric wikis, does not mean we have nothing to give, or put in a wiki. Bulbapedia and seribii do not own the rights to pokemon related wiki programs.

We are now up to seven ideas this wiki could be used, all of which could be utilized simultaneously.

1. Rom hacking resource
2. Fakemon Pokedex
3. Competitive Battling Community
4. Club Member List
5. Challenge Archive
6. Fanfic Page/List
7. Notable Staff Member Pages

 

[Mew~]

1. Rom hacking resource
2. Fakemon Pokedex
3. Competitive Battling Community
4. Club Member List
5. Challenge Archive
6. Fanfic Page/List
7. Notable Staff Member Pages

I have to agree with Pachy on this one. Though, if your really interested in these ideas, I don't see why you can't suggest it to moderators, things like these can be put into stickys in the right sections. Although, most of what you've mentioned already in or around some threads.

 

[Nick]

You know, I really don't like the arguments against changes that state that we're a forum. I think we all realise that we are a forum, but there's nothing really wrong with adding different things to the user experience. What's the problem in expanding the community to include different experiences? At one point in time, we were looking to do exactly that when we had the other Wiki running. But that wiki served more of a purpose on PC site history. A lot of people seem to find that interesting. It also contained a lot of information regarding decision making, staff forums, and other things.

I don't think you can kill this idea, Pachy. Not to be rude or anything, but I think the only people who can do that are a decisive h-staff decision. And even then, it may be something that belongs to the administrators to discuss since it doesn't really involve community affairs. Nevertheless, I don't see the problem in adding a wiki for the purpose of ROM Hacking (though, some of the other things listed a few posts above seem really silly to put in the wiki if we add it). I don't think I've ever seen you in the ROM Hacking forum, but some things aren't as simple as searching the forum.

 

[Cura]

This thread has just caught my attention. So please, let me say something really quick about this idea.

In the short run, this would be a good idea, however... in the long run, it may not work. I mean this as that the wiki may fall into disrepair or mismanagement for common reasons.

For example: I noticed that for the past two months, we have BattleWiki link at the top of the forums with the other links such as Oekaki and Chat. Now on further observation of this wiki has been forgotten.

This page was last modified on March 6, 2011, at 09:05am.

This page has been accessed 425 times.

The page has been accessed 425 times, however nothing has been changed or edited since March 6, 2011? Now why is that like that?

You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason:

This page has been locked to prevent editing.

You can view and copy the source of this page:

''MediaWiki has been successfully installed.''

Consult the [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents User's Guide] for information on using the wiki software.

== Getting started ==
* [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuration_settings Configuration settings list]
* [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:FAQ MediaWiki FAQ]
* [https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-announce MediaWiki release mailing list]

Okay, so the entire wiki is locked to everyone except the admin or server owner. (Who appears to be "Sotomura".)

This just seems to be a waste time to me in my opinion.
I normally find most wikis full of non-relevant information or just full completely offtopic stuff.

In my final opinion, I vote... No wiki.

 

[Melody]

@Patchisou
I expected your argument, see point two which is that a wiki of that scale would quickly drain our resources. We see enough of that Stunfisk as it is.

Your argument about a previous wiki is invalid, that was a SMALL wiki which I presume only the staff had any ability to access. No serious traffic there, so it wasn't a problem to the server it was on.

As for killing it, I never claimed to have that power directly, but I still can express myself and pray that more of the powers agree with me.

 

[Nick]

My argument isn't invalid. It was a small project limited to staff because we were getting things ready. Did you think that we were going to keep that to ourselves or something? Where are you getting this information from? And if I recall correctly, I know a few supporters had access to it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not completely for the idea. I just think it's a good idea to provide a resource to ROM Hacking since that is what sets PokéCommunity apart from other forums content-wise. But I totally understand the points and reasons against it. Especially regarding the server, since thinking about that is putting me way off to the idea. Can't really argue against something that holds so much truth. Do I think a Wiki like that will have that kind of traffic? No, I don't, but nothing is saying it couldn't. That reason alone is enough to sway an reasonable person to vote no to the idea.

Yoshi-san's arguments are compelling to me as well. And if that much information in addition to ROM Hacking is going to be included, then I think it loses the value. If there were to be a Wiki, I'd rather it just have ROM Hacking than include things as silly as Fakemon, club member lists, fanfic lists, and noable staff members.

 

[Cura]

Yoshi-san's arguments are compelling to me.

Hey, I'm not for the idea in the long run, but in a short run it seems possible.

But, in truth... if we had that Wiki from March, but just recently the link to it was added (About two months back). Why was it never edited nor accessed by it's admin since March? It just does not make sense to me whatsoever.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, that's why I find them compelling. I think it'd be great short term, but I hadn't really thought about it long term.

...Um, we have a Battle Wiki? O___o

 

[Oryx]

Also. Don't expect a free host to be able to handle the massive traffic PC generates. It just can't be done.
"Free Wiki" sites like Wikia lack the power and tools needed to enable willing volunteers to contribute to it. No staff member really likes extra work so...and can you blame them?

I would like to address this if you don't mind, lol. Being a staff member is in itself 'extra work', not like we're getting paid to do this. While not all staff members want to do anything beyond moderate their forums (which I honestly don't understand but hey everyone is different), a large portion of us do. That's why there are events that go on outside of the GT, and weekly/monthly contests. So to generalize and say that "no staff member likes extra work" is very, very wrong.

This thread has just caught my attention. So please, let me say something really quick about this idea.

In the short run, this would be a good idea, however... in the long run, it may not work. I mean this as that the wiki may fall into disrepair or mismanagement for common reasons.

For example: I noticed that for the past two months, we have BattleWiki link at the top of the forums with the other links such as Oekaki and Chat. Now on further observation of this wiki has been forgotten.



The page has been accessed 425 times, however nothing has been changed or edited since March 6, 2011? Now why is that like that?



Okay, so the entire wiki is locked to everyone except the admin or server owner. (Who appears to be "Sotomura".)

This just seems to be a waste time to me in my opinion.
I normally find most wikis full of non-relevant information or just full completely offtopic stuff.

In my final opinion, I vote... No wiki.

I think the difference between this idea and the BattleWiki is partly the community. While the battling community is very helpful and nice and great, there just simply aren't as many of them, and that's what makes wikis more successful - more people. I'm assuming that it wouldn't be locked to everyone like that one either. :x

If it does go beyond hacking I'm willing to help moderate it if it needs it, because I don't have any hacking knowledge so I couldn't help with that part. xD But I doubt we'd lack manpower on it tbh.