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Pokémon: Delta Mission

Raikt

Fiction writer.
72
Posts
14
Years
    • Age 34
    • Seen Jul 19, 2010
    I really have no suggestions, or at least any to the game mechanics. I feel that, through looking extensively at the Holon sets, you have most of what you need to adequately recreate it in game form. Though, now that I think about it, will the Delta Pokemon's movesets be entirely different? (I.E. Fire/Steel Tyranitar learning Lava Plume and Flash Cannon) Or will it usually just be one extra move then they could learn normally?

    Also; what about the Delta Pokemon's abilities? If I remember correctly, a few of the Holon species had unique skills as well as moves, so that would add more work, but would definitely be a unique feature.
     

    Glitchfinder

    Let's all get along, please?
    477
    Posts
    17
    Years
  • I really have no suggestions, or at least any to the game mechanics. I feel that, through looking extensively at the Holon sets, you have most of what you need to adequately recreate it in game form. Though, now that I think about it, will the Delta Pokemon's movesets be entirely different? (I.E. Fire/Steel Tyranitar learning Lava Plume and Flash Cannon) Or will it usually just be one extra move then they could learn normally?

    Also; what about the Delta Pokemon's abilities? If I remember correctly, a few of the Holon species had unique skills as well as moves, so that would add more work, but would definitely be a unique feature.

    The Delta species will have movesets that are mostly or entirely different from their normal counterparts. However, there will be an in-game mechanic that allows you to essentially flip a Pokémon between their Delta form and their normal form. If a Pokémon has multiple possible delta forms, it will only flip between normal and one specific possible form, which will be determined by the personality value.

    As for the abilities, that is something still under discussion, though I have a feeling that there will be alternative abilities for Delta species. Something to note is that Delta species will be able to breed with other delta species, as well as with normal Pokémon. When breeding with normal Pokémon, the offspring may end up as either a delta species or a normal species, but, when two delta species breed, the offspring is always a delta species. (And a delta species will probably have different egg moves from their normal counterpart, allowing for some more interesting possibilities)

    I realize I have stated this before, but there will be significant differences between how this game handles legendary Pokémon, and the official games handle them. I'll be announcing those differences in detail in the next update, which will probably happen in a few days. One thing to note is that these differences pose possibly the most radical departure from the standard games thus far, and that you will either like them, or you will hate them, depending on your viewpoint. (But trust me, these differences are to alleviate two very, very old aggravations regarding legendary Pokémon, both of which have frustrated many trainers time and time again)
     

    Delusions of Originality

    good night, sleep tight
    108
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Age 35
    • Seen Apr 17, 2024
    I have to say, this looks like quite an impressive project. I stopped playing the TCG around Neo Discovery (oh, the early Wizards days) so I'm not that familiar with the Holon sets, but based on what little I've seen and what you've mentioned here it sounds like a very interesting region to explore. Also good to see that you'll be keeping DP battle mechanics even if you're sticking with Gen III pokémon and moves.

    I do have a few questions about the Delta species--you say that there will be multiple possible Delta forms for each pokémon in addition to their normal forms. If you aren't creating special sprites for each form, what are you going to do to indicate whether what you're battling is normal or Delta, and if Delta, what type or types it is? Will there be some sort of indication, or an aura around the pokémon in question, or are we just going to have to man up and try attacking that tyranitar with psychic in the hopes that it's no longer dark-type? Additionally, approximately how many Delta forms are we looking at? Just a few for each species (i.e. mightyena can be dark, electric/fire or water/psychic and nothing else), or will there be a lot more possibilities?

    I can tell you've got a lot of work ahead of you, but unlike most developers that take on massive, made-from-scratch projects you've given this a lot of thought and clearly have plenty of experience to back it up. (Major kudos to you for scripting and coding this on your own, by the way--I'd love to be able to do the same with my own project, but as I'm pretty crunched for time and still inexperienced with my languages of choice I'm just prototyping it out with RMXP and Essentials for now. One of these days, one of these days.) I have faith that you'll be able to go far with this, and I look forward to seeing what you produce. Best of luck to you both. :)
     
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    Glitchfinder

    Let's all get along, please?
    477
    Posts
    17
    Years
  • I have to say, this looks like quite an impressive project. I stopped playing the TCG around Neo Discovery (oh, the early Wizards days) so I'm not that familiar with the Holon sets, but based on what little I've seen and what you've mentioned here it sounds like a very interesting region to explore. Also good to see that you'll be keeping DP battle mechanics even if you're sticking with Gen III pokémon and moves.

    I do have a few questions about the Delta species--you say that there will be multiple possible Delta forms for each pokémon in addition to their normal forms. If you aren't creating special sprites for each form, what are you going to do to indicate whether what you're battling is normal or Delta, and if Delta, what type or types it is? Will there be some sort of indication, or an aura around the pokémon in question, or are we just going to have to man up and try attacking that tyranitar with psychic in the hopes that it's no longer dark-type? Additionally, approximately how many Delta forms are we looking at? Just a few for each species (i.e. mightyena can be dark, electric/fire or water/psychic and nothing else), or will there be a lot more possibilities?

    I can tell you've got a lot of work ahead of you, but unlike most developers that take on massive, made-from-scratch projects you've given this a lot of thought and clearly have plenty of experience to back it up. (Major kudos to you for scripting and coding this on your own, by the way--I'd love to be able to do the same with my own project, but as I'm pretty crunched for time and still inexperienced with my languages of choice I'm just prototyping it out with RMXP and Essentials for now. One of these days, one of these days.) I have faith that you'll be able to go far with this, and I look forward to seeing what you produce. Best of luck to you both. :)

    Quite a bit of thought went into this comment, and I would like to thank you for that. You've brought up some interesting points, and so I will clarify those for you. First, thank you for the compliments you've given. They aren't the standard "good luck with that!" or "This is so cool!" type of compliments you see so often, but actually involved some thought.

    While the Delta Species will not have their own individual sprites, we have discussed a few ways to make it easy to tell if you are battling a delta species or not. The first potential method, and the one most closely resembling the card game, is to prefix the name of any Delta species Pokémon with the Greek letter δ, or Delta, thus making it painfully obvious what it is. This is potentially the smartest method, as it not only allows you to immediately figure out if you need to evaluate the Pokémon with your Pokéwalker to find the types, but it also allows anybody you battle over IP connections to figure out if they're battling a Pokémon with standard or nonstandard types, thus enabling them to make more intelligent decisions. Another potential method is to not show any difference, and instead leave it up to the trainer to evaluate the Pokémon with their Pokéwalker, or potentially face the consequences.

    As for the number of available Delta Species type variations, that depends entirely upon the card sets. We will be including every type variation included within the card sets (with ambiguous types like Fighting being differentiated into other types), and any Pokémon that does not have a delta variant (such as some of the Holon's Pokémon) will be given a single Delta species. If you look at the card game, you might notice that this leads to a potential problem occasionally, such as with Mew. Specifically, how would you get all the Delta species types of a legendary Pokémon? Suffice to say, that will be revealed in the next major update. Keep in mind, this game is not only meant to be fun, it is meant to rectify complaints about features forced upon the games by necessity or bad planning, and some of these changes will allow you to get every single Delta species, no matter what Pokémon it is.

    As for your project, I recommend you continue moving forward. You don't have to do everything all at once, and you don't have to get something out within a certain time frame. Go ahead and prototype in Poccil's kit, but keep learning your languages of choice, so that you can eventually create the game on your own.
     

    Neo-Dragon

    Game Developer
    1,835
    Posts
    19
    Years
  • I'm not going to reply to every thread you did this in. But your going to get an infraction for posts like this.
    Why post the same message or something similar is like every thread in this section on the first page.
     

    Glitchfinder

    Let's all get along, please?
    477
    Posts
    17
    Years
  • Update: May 10th, 2010

    Well guys, here's the promised update. There are a few things that have been implied, but not outright stated, and others that haven't even been hinted at. Some of those are going to be let out into the open now, so that you can decide for yourselves what you like or don't like.

    Behind the Scenes:

    One thing that has yet to be revealed is the massive amount of error checking I am placing in the engine. Not only am I over-checking input and output, but I am also including checks specifically designed to prevent certain forms of cheating. Specifically, I'm adding checks to prevent cloning and memory editing.

    The checks for cloning will be fairly simple, but will result in all but one of the clones actually being deleted from your game. There are only a handful of ways that cloning would be possible, but, since they are essentially impossible to block without allowing the potential of losing all copies of the Pokémon being cloned, I am adding simple checks to detect clones and remove the extras. This will even detect clones that have been leveled or even battled with, or that have had other perfectly legitimate changes made to them.

    The second type of cheating is far worse, and many of you may be familiar with it. Memory editing is achieved in the official games through hardware like the GameShark and Action Replay, and allows players to do all sorts of nasty stuff. Due to the nature of the cheating method, I will not reveal my detection methods at this point in time, suffice to say that even if they are mostly futile, the sheer volume of ways I am checking for it will be enough to catch most memory editors and stop them in their tracks. When a Pokémon is detected as having been edited, you will receive a message stating that the Pokéball has been damaged and must be repaired. The "repair" involves reverting the Pokémon's data, which could potentially cause loss of levels, experience, effort values, and pretty much any other changes that might have happened to it since the restore point, legitimate or not. Similar methods hold true for items, and when memory editing is detected in other settings, then other messages will appear. (Such as a battle being aborted before starting, with a message to the effect of "You thought you saw something, but it must have been your imagination.")

    Before any of you reply saying that this is stupid, and I should let you do what you want with the game, let me remind you of something. While it may not be immediately available, I plan to add at least basic online features to this game, even if it only amounts to direct IP connections to set up a trade or a battle. If I do not do everything within my power to to keep someone from cheating, then people who don't cheat get left behind, locked out of being the best simply because they adhere to stricter moral standards than other players.

    Legendary Pokémon:

    So, I've been hinting at these changes, but I haven't revealed much in the way of concrete details. You already know that there will be many more wanderers than in previous games, and that any defeated legendary Pokémon will also return as wanderers. You may have guessed that there will be more than one of certain legendary Pokémon, most notably Mew. Well, there is much more in the works, in the form of two very simple changes that are being made. These changes are an attempt to correct grievous wrongs Nintendo has done to the player, in an attempt to make the legendary Pokémon more notable, and more valuable.

    First, not only will every legendary from the GBA generation and before be available in the game, you will also be able to find more than one of them. Specifically, every legendary will have a very specific set of circumstances in which you have a very low chance of encountering it in the wild. Now, this low chance won't necessarily be as high as one percent. In most cases, you will actually have a less than one percent chance of encountering them. However, under certain circumstances, this chance will increase to the point where you can reasonably expect to encounter the Pokémon, if you invest enough time and effort into it. Just like with the evented battles, these legendary Pokémon will become wanderers if you fail to capture them, allowing you the opportunity to get more than the standard legendary allotted to you by the game.

    The next change we have decided to make is going to be far more controversial, however. This change is going to be to one of the most basic, commonly accepted fundamentals of legendary Pokémon, introduced in Gold, Silver, and Crystal versions. Specifically, in Holon, they can breed. Now, they will not have any kind of standard egg group, and Ditto can do nothing for them. Instead, they will remain apparently genderless, and can only breed with their own species. In the case of Latios and Latias, another condition applies, since the actually have a true gender. Specifically, these two cannot breed with their own species, but most crossbreed between the two species. Their eggs will have a 50/50 chance of being either species, though you can ensure the species by giving one of the parents the Soul Dew. (The egg will then hatch as the same species as that parent.) If both parents have the Soul Dew, then the game assumes that it can be either, and you return to a 50/50 chance. This change has been made because Pokémon is supposed to be based in a world with at least some kind of functional ecosystem, and that means that there is no such thing as a species with only one member. (In other words, that species would be considered functionally extinct, as there would generally be no way for it to produce a new generation, and thus it would die with the sole remaining member)

    Other Details:

    The last thing I would like to share is that this game may potentially get much more in the way of online capability than even the DS Pokémon games. This is due to a friend of mine, another programmer, who knows enough PHP, MySQL, and Ruby to be a great help. There is no guarantee, since we not only have to build a server from scratch, but also have to secure it against all manner of attacks, cheats and exploits. Hopefully, we'll be able to pull it off without a hitch, and if we do, you should expect a plethora of new features not even Nintendo dares to offer you. (By the way, I can pay server costs for a while, so don't expect some second-rate, laggy server, at least not until we start getting massive traffic)

     
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    Delusions of Originality

    good night, sleep tight
    108
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    14
    Years
    • Age 35
    • Seen Apr 17, 2024
    An excellent game with a lot of potential deserves a proper comment, I think. No problem, and thanks for answering the questions--that clears a lot up.

    As for my own project, yes, that's what I intend to do. Really, considering the problems I've currently run into with the RMXP version, I've been able to practice a little more with the other things to kill time. :P

    But this isn't about me, it's about Delta Mission! This newest update looks really promising. In general I look forward to being able to breed legendaries, as I'm fond of rather a lot of them and would like to be able to get more than one of some species per game; I've also never thought of them as being unique species, so it's nice to see a game actually take the logical biological (heh) approach with them. I can understand why it'd be controversial, what with this opening the door to overpowered pokémon running rampant; on the other hand, if they're common for one person then they're common for everyone, so it isn't all that bad. In my opinion, anyway. And if all else fails, I don't mind keeping my box full of rayquaza all to myself.

    And, of course, there are your eventual plans for online play--a lot of games promise it and few manage to pull it off properly, from what I understand anyway, though I think that if you and this friend are custom-making everything it has the potential to work a lot more smoothly. The game should be great even if you don't manage to get around to it, but that would definitely be a big bonus.

    This gets more and more exciting with each update. :)
     

    Setosama

    LegendaryPokemon Trainer
    44
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Seen Sep 24, 2010
    First glance at it, I thought it said Hoenn Region :(, but nice storyline!

    Not the hoenn region. But close by. Thanks. I hope you aren't disappointed by what my friend Glitchfinder and I come up with.

    I enjoy the idea of a game based around the Holon series of cards from the TCG. I always found the set fun to play and interesting when it first came out. Thus, I can tell you put a lot of forethoughts into the plot and storyline, as it covers what little information the scattered cards provided. So, I know you'll succeed already, just based off your willingness to hunt down information and try to break away from the norm. I look forward to whatever you produce off this idea.

    On to suggestions; I like everything you have proposed so far. The varying weather scripts, differing Pokemon types and movepools, and the free roam have all been something I've wanted in Pokemon for a while now. I think the only issue will be with the open endedness of the game itself. Desiring free roam is always a good thing, but it's always hard to implement. The larger, and more open, the maps are, the easier it is to make mistakes. I suppose it's not really a suggestion, but will it actually be a free roam environment, or will it be simulated, like in some games, based mostly off perspective?

    You, right there, have stated THE SOLE REASON I asked my buddy Glitchfinder to help me make this game in the first place!

    That, and I wanted a game with MEW as the mascot. :D
     
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