PokéSpe Black and White

[grey†fish]

Hey guys!

Well, I just read in a thread of the Black and White section, that the main character will actually have TWO rivals (link).
Each rival will receive one of the two remaining Pokémon from Prof. Araragi, and you'll battle them both in-game.

My question is: What does this mean for PokéSpe???

Unlike the Gen III games, where the opposite gender from yours would become your rival, or even Gen IV, where you had two rivals, the opposite gender char and Pearl (Barry), in this case the number of Pokédex holders would increase to 4!!!

So what do you guys think? Will PokéSpe completely ignore the two extra rivals (like they did with Wally in Gen III) and add a third character later on, or will they do something different?

Personally, I feel like the best idea would be to treat both rivals as a rival pair to Black and White. However, this leaves us with a starter shortage, also, who would be the third character to the trio, and what starter would (s)he get?

 

[PunxsatownyPhil]

... You just answered that. You emphasized that five will have TWO RIVALS, then you mentioned that three and four had two rivals. What's your question? One character plus two rivals equals three dex holders and three starters.

Oh, I see. Perhaps the other trainer doesn't appear. In PokeSpe, I'd assume that they drop one of your friends and add the trainer. Think of the anime. No Leaf ever, just Brock and [Insert Female Companion Here].

 

[grey†fish]

... You just answered that. You emphasized that five will have TWO RIVALS, then you mentioned that three and four had two rivals. What's your question? One character plus two rivals equals three dex holders and three starters.

Oh, I see. Perhaps the other trainer doesn't appear. In PokeSpe, I'd assume that they drop one of your friends and add the trainer. Think of the anime. No Leaf ever, just Brock and [Insert Female Companion Here].

Yeah, but Brock was never a main character in the games or in PokéSpe (well he was a Gym Leader, but), I'm referring to Dex Holders…

There's gonna need to be four Dex Holders in the B/W arc for it to make sense with the games… that's not to mention a [possible] third character in Grey, or whatever they call the third installment…

How would they go around that? Would they really drop one of the rivals (I know they did this with Wally, but seeing how one's male and the other female… well, you know how the whole Jynx deal went. :\

But if they decide to add a third character instead, what would the rivals get: no Pokédex or starters???

Seems to me like the creators of PokéSpe must be going through some dilemma right about now…

BTW, how are PokéSpe's sales going? For all we know they might just stop it instead… o_o (Please don't stop it, please don't) :(

 

[Clover Cat]

So what do you guys think? Will PokéSpe completely ignore the two extra rivals (like they did with Wally in Gen III)

Okay. Wally wasn't ignored - he was never ignored in the RS arc, despite what some fans seem determined to think. Maybe he wasn't given as much screentime as his two rival counterparts, but he still got entire chapters devoted to him, and that doesn't classify as being 'ignored'. And it's not like he could make regular appearances following that arc and into the Emerald arc with his body in that condition. His actions during RS were under extreme circumstances and because there was no other candidate.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. Back to topic.

There's already a quartet in the form of the senior Kanto group - and, if you count Wally, then there's another in the Hoenn group as well. Just because there's three starters doesn't mean that it's impossible to get all four characters in the story with some screentime. And, come to think of it, these quartets were formed due to original characters being created, so the writers should really know how to deal with a larger number of characters at this point.

 

[grey†fish]

Okay. Wally wasn't ignored - he was never ignored in the RS arc, despite what some fans seem determined to think. Maybe he wasn't given as much screentime as his two rival counterparts, but he still got entire chapters devoted to him, and that doesn't classify as being 'ignored'. And it's not like he could make regular appearances following that arc and into the Emerald arc with his body in that condition. His actions during RS were under extreme circumstances and because there was no other candidate.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest. Back to topic.

There's already a quartet in the form of the senior Kanto group - and, if you count Wally, then there's another in the Hoenn group as well. Just because there's three starters doesn't mean that it's impossible to get all four characters in the story with some screentime. And, come to think of it, these quartets were formed due to original characters being created, so the writers should really know how to deal with a larger number of characters at this point.

Well, regarding Wally, you're right… he wasn't neglected, and he did receive a number of chapters, which were extremely entertaining in my opinion.
When I said ignored, I was alluding to the fact that when there was no other candidate for who should be Emerald (candidate as in rival or protagonist in the game, who'd fit the description), and although they had been halfway done in making Wally into Emerald (since he DID receive Treecko and all)… They decided to throw some random character in, have him meet Treecko (now a Sceptile) by chance, and to make matters worse, his design is just… wrong!!! (I'm a short dude too, and it pisses me off to see what they did there).

But never mind that, you're right, there HAS been, a SINGLE quartet (Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow). And this one worked because in Yellow version, you get a different starter… Pikachu.

This isn't a special version with four starters or anything, that much is sure, so how do you go around having four Pokédex holders?
That's my question.

Honestly, I believe that the most sensible thing to do would be to completely ignore the fact that both rivals get starters and a Pokédex, but I want to see what other people think about the matter.
(Solutions-wise)

 

[Clover Cat]

Well, regarding Wally, you're right… he wasn't neglected, and he did receive a number of chapters, which were extremely entertaining in my opinion.
When I said ignored, I was alluding to the fact that when there was no other candidate for who should be Emerald (candidate as in rival or protagonist in the game, who'd fit the description), and although they had been halfway done in making Wally into Emerald (since he DID receive Treecko and all)… They decided to throw some random character in, have him meet Treecko (now a Sceptile) by chance, and to make matters worse, his design is just… wrong!!! (I'm a short dude too, and it pisses me off to see what they did there).

I don't really understand why people hate on Emerald so much. Yes, his fashion is a bit silly, but he's ten years old and trying to boost his self-esteem, he acts the way he does because of childhood bullying (which I can sympathize with), and quite frankly the first person who'll say anything to him about his fashion sense once they get back to the mainland is going to be Ruby. I just want to squeeze the little kid to death. <3

And he did have a cameo during the RS arc, in the form of a Trainer's Card. So it's not entirely random.

*cough* Sorry. Back to main point of discussion.

But never mind that, you're right, there HAS been, a SINGLE quartet (Red, Green, Blue, and Yellow). And this one worked because in Yellow version, you get a different starter… Pikachu.

This isn't a special version with four starters or anything, that much is sure, so how do you go around having four Pokédex holders?
That's my question.

Honestly, I believe that the most sensible thing to do would be to completely ignore the fact that both rivals get starters and a Pokédex, but I want to see what other people think about the matter.
(Solutions-wise)

Ah, now I see. You have a point...Though I wouldn't put it past GameFreak to release a new starter in a different version one of these days. But if they don't, then I agree. Skip the childhood rivals - probably by handwaving it as a specific situation of some kind - and give two of the starters to the main default characters. The starter left over could go to that 'N' character, I suppose, for completion's sake. If they release a third game for V Gen (I'm betting my current allowance of pokedollars that the title is something relating to 'Gray'), then he's probably going to be the character named after that game anyway.

On a separate note, the childhood rivals could probably get the version exclusives as their partner Pokemon.

 

[grey†fish]

I don't really understand why people hate on Emerald so much. Yes, his fashion is a bit silly, but he's ten years old and trying to boost his self-esteem, he acts the way he does because of childhood bullying (which I can sympathize with), and quite frankly the first person who'll say anything to him about his fashion sense once they get back to the mainland is going to be Ruby. I just want to squeeze the little kid to death. <3

And he did have a cameo during the RS arc, in the form of a Trainer's Card. So it's not entirely random.

*cough* Sorry. Back to main point of discussion.

Ah, now I see. You have a point...Though I wouldn't put it past GameFreak to release a new starter in a different version one of these days. But if they don't, then I agree. Skip the childhood rivals - probably by handwaving it as a specific situation of some kind - and give two of the starters to the main default characters. The starter left over could go to that 'N' character, I suppose, for completion's sake. If they release a third game for V Gen (I'm betting my current allowance of pokedollars that the title is something relating to 'Gray'), then he's probably going to be the character named after that game anyway.

On a separate note, the childhood rivals could probably get the version exclusives as their partner Pokemon.

Actually, that version-exclusives for starters idea is pretty good; I definitely don't want PokéSpe to completely ignore these two, but I couldn't think of any 'special' Pokémon they might have…

And regarding the Trainer Card you mentioned, was that in the manga or the games? (Since I don't really remember it)

 

[Clover Cat]

Actually, that version-exclusives for starters idea is pretty good; I definitely don't want PokéSpe to completely ignore these two, but I couldn't think of any 'special' Pokémon they might have…

And regarding the Trainer Card you mentioned, was that in the manga or the games? (Since I don't really remember it)

The only problem I see with this is how the default characters would get the starters, but the childhood rivals wouldn't. Excluding besties isn't a good thing.

The manga. I'm not sure where, but at some point a Trainer Card is shown in a panel with Emerald's picture on it (le-Croissant hair version). It's easy to miss, understandably enough, because the panel is supposedly very small and overlooked, but it's there.

 

[grey†fish]

The only problem I see with this is how the default characters would get the starters, but the childhood rivals wouldn't. Excluding besties isn't a good thing.

Yeah, I agree, I just honestly don't know what else they'd do…

The manga. I'm not sure where, but at some point a Trainer Card is shown in a panel with Emerald's picture on it (le-Croissant hair version). It's easy to miss, understandably enough, because the panel is supposedly very small and overlooked, but it's there.

Well there you go. :\
Personally I feel like PokéSpe should've stayed true to the games, and Wally was not at all a bad option to convert into Emerald.
I feel like making a main character that appears only in the manga, IS pulling a character out of you arse…

Shame they'll probably have to do it again because of GameFreak being inconsiderate to the manga fan-base :(

 

[Shiny_Noctowl]

Obviously, Black and White (the player characters from the games) will get two of the starters and be the dexholders for the BW arc. Maybe N will steal the third starter to "free" it from humans; he'll later reform like Lance and become a dexholder. Cheren and Bel will probably be like Wally from RS, important characters but not dexholders.

 

[Rechi]

Shame they'll probably have to do it again because of GameFreak being inconsiderate to the manga fan-base :(

GameFreak has no control over the manga or its fan-base. Just felt like pointing that out.

 

[JakeyBoy]

The male and female characters will be important ones for sure, so that pretty much guarantees them starters. Perhaps one rival will have a smaller part (aka not participating in the final battle, etc). Or maybe they'll just get set aside for an Emerald-esque character. Hope it's not that though, the manga guys aren't that great at designing characters.

 

[PunxsatownyPhil]

Hope it's not that though, the manga guys aren't that great at designing characters.

...

Hope it's not that though, the manga guys aren't that great at designing characters.

*Eye twitch*

Hope it's not that though, the manga guys aren't that great at designing characters.

YELLOW! IS! AWESOME!

 

[SuperLink]

Sorry guys, but I've gotta agree with Jakeyboy on original character design ^^

Anyway I can't really see any of the 4 main characters being left out of the B/W manga. I think the three main characters will be the male (Black), Belle and Cheren, and they'll get the three starters. Black with Mijumaru, Cheren with Tsutarja and Belle with Pokabu. Just guessing here!

And then the female protagonist (White) will probably have a Chiramii or another "mascot" Pokémon as her starter. I honestly can't see any of these characters being left out though.

 

[grey†fish]

GameFreak has no control over the manga or its fan-base. Just felt like pointing that out.

But the manga exists, and GameFreak is aware of it.…

I wholeheartedly agree with JakeyBoy, I'm rather unhappy with Yellow and Emerald, but I suppose there's not much hope in this case, since I don't see the manga giving one of the rivals a bigger role than the other (unless the game itself does, but both of them get starters anyways), and I honestly can't agree with SuperLink's notion that the two rivals will get more importance than one of the playable characters… :\

 

[Rechi]

But the manga exists, and GameFreak is aware of it.…

Being aware of it isn't the same as having control over it.

 

[grey†fish]

I never said GameFreak was "in control" of the manga, I clearly said that I felt that they were being inconsiderate towards the manga because there's honestly no way to make this work… right.

GameFreak knows about the existence of the manga, and they know how the manga works, I'm not saying they made four characters with the intent to mess the manga up, but they were clearly inconsiderate about it (didn't take it into consideration)… no mention of control as far as I remember.

In the end, the reason why the manga is so popular is that it portrays the Pokémon world from the games (GameFreak) in a much more honest and mature way from the anime. Thus, PokéSpe would loses its meaning when they can't follow with the storyline from the games, so in a way, GameFreak doesn't have control over the manga, they have control over the storyline that the manga is expected to follow.

 

[SuperLink]

GameFreak knows about the existence of the manga, and they know how the manga works, I'm not saying they made four characters with the intent to mess the manga up, but they were clearly inconsiderate about it (didn't take it into consideration)… no mention of control as far as I remember.

To be fair, having two rivals is a gameplay element with the intent of shaking the gameplay up a bit.

I would much rather GameFreak not consider the formula of the manga and instead work on how to improve the games.

If the games were in any way compromised as a result of "being considerate" of other media I'd actually be pretty annoyed. The mangaka will find a way to work with these characters, don't worry.

 

[560cool.]

Let's calculate :

Black || Game |
White|| Protsgonists |

Belle || Extra |
Cheren || Rivals |

I really think they'll drop Belle/Cheren just like Wally. The question is : which one will be dropped ? :|

 

[Rechi]

I never said GameFreak was "in control" of the manga, I clearly said that I felt that they were being inconsiderate towards the manga because there's honestly no way to make this work… right.

GameFreak doesn't have to be "considerate" towards the manga. It's their job to make the main pokemon games however they feel like. GF wants 2 rivals in the games? Boom, Cheren and Belle, it's that simple. Why should they change the main games just because they don't click with the manga's "2 player characters + a rival" convention? Do you want GF to stop everything they're doing just so they can fix a relatively minor problem for something they have no creative control over? Yeah, I didn't think so.

The manga doesn't influence the games, it only uses them as a base. Kusaka will just have to find a way around it, which we all know he will considering the past Special arcs. It doesn't matter if he has to drop a character or make a new one, it will still work out. There's nothing to complain at GameFreak for.

Thus, PokéSpe would loses its meaning when they can't follow with the storyline from the games, so in a way, GameFreak doesn't have control over the manga, they have control over the storyline that the manga is expected to follow.

Who says the manga's expected to follow anything? GameFreak just allows the manga to use its characters, pokemon and locations. After that that's where GF's influence ends and Kusaka's creative control kicks in. The mangas (not just Special but all of the pokemon mangas out there) have proven time and time again that they can do whatever they feel like with GameFreak's base characters, etc. For example, did you honestly think that the game's Pryce would turn out to be Mask of Ice in the manga? Or that the Yellow and Emerald arcs would even exist? The manga's storyline can be anything it wants to be and GameFreak has nothing to do with it besides sitting back and enjoying the delicious free advertising the manga gives them.