Pokemon Creation Utility

[JJames19119]

So I've been sitting on this idea for a long while, only now has it actually come this far.

It started about four years ago. I was coding this silly little "Pokemon Breeder" application. All it basically did was be a Tiny Chao Garden (Sonic Advance series) clone but themed to Pokemon. The sprites used were from the Mystery Dungeon series that came out somewhat recently. I got it nearly completely working in about six days; basic pokemon movement, pokemon moods, pokemon stat calculation, berries, raising stats with them, even going down to details like having a shop to buy berries from, having a console list to tell you what's happened and saving and loading your game. I improved on the interactivity further by including a format where you could add your own pokemon by having a folder full of sprites to use and a text file defining several key features of that pokemon. You could basically raise ANYTHING you wanted. The only thing left to do was add in minigames of some sort so that you had the ability to accumulate money to buy berries with and therefore, advance in the game like that. After that, I would've been satisfied with the project.

For some reason, it stopped there. I abandoned it. The source sat on my computer for the following four years.

Fast forward to today. I'm getting back into Pokemon again. Heart Gold has usurped my time, Mystery Dungeon 2 still continues to interest me, and my friends are into the craze all over again, including one friend who is currently hacking Emerald. He's been having a bit of a time with it however. Wanting to get more involved like he was though, I decided to look through my sources. Lo and behold, I find the Pokemon Breeder app, and decide to finish it.

I realized that the game had no central goal; why were you raising your pokemon? Why were you mindlessly feeding them berries? Just so you could win minigames and therefore, buy more berries? The mood system I implemented was simplistic at best and the strong lack of sprites to fit more moods was disheartening. By this time, I had previously programming some a lot in Java, familiarizing myself with it by coding new stuff and such into Shoddy Battle. I had become very, very intimate with the mechanics of Pokemon. So I thought, why not? Let's give the breeder something familiar; the ability to battle with your bred pokemon.

Instead of going out and walking 5000 some steps to hatch an egg that likely won't contain the pokemon you want, or battling the same wild pokemon a hundred times for the particular EVs, what if you could do all this by just feeding them berries, playing games with them and generally entertaining both yourself and your pokemon? This struck me as a novel idea, actually interacting with your pokemon as it grows and becoming to them like an actual friend as opposed to just a trainer, something like the true vision that the main games have you aspire. I can't help but think that this has been tried before though.

Either way, I set out to implement a basic battling system. It worked...marvelously, at that. The way it calculated stats, damage, variables...I felt like I was playing the real thing. I got into a bit of an ambitious train of thoughts at this point. I wanted to keep it going. I realized that with the right set up, I could create my own pokemon game, mimicking the main games down to the finest detail. But no, more then that...I wanted to go even further.

I remembered back to my friend who was hacking Emerald. Working around the constraints of limited space, confusing pointers, incomplete script syntax that was hard to work with. Why couldn't it be simpler? Why couldn't you use a simple, easy to write script for NPCs? Why couldn't you have more then 400+ pokemon? Why couldn't you have new moves with effects that aren't already in the game? It dawned upon me that this is all possible...that is, if I were to advance on my current position anyways.

I'm opening this thread up on discussion for a Pokemon Game Creation Utility; basically an application that allows you to create a Pokemon game from scratch, mimicking all the details of the main games without having to work around hacking ROMs and so forth. It's doable, in fact, I have basic formats written down in my head already. Already being highly familiar with the mechanics of Pokemon helps too. If I ever do in fact complete it, I'll even challenge myself by fully recreating Fire Red in it. Of course, I'll have to dodge angry Cease & Desist letters first...

The discussion is on what could go into this kind of utility, what kind of formats it would use, and whether or not this is actually a good idea. If it turns out something like this was already made or if ROM hacking is cool enough, then you can probably disregard this as bollocks and everyone can continue on with their happy lives. If this idea shows promise though, then I want to try expanding upon it. I've been waiting for a project that actually feels satisfying and more or less, cooperative. (tile based movement? no need for frame precision? sign me up! I'm tired of coding platformers) I know this sounds rather ambitious, especially for a newbie here, and while I can't necessarily prove it with anything decent in design, I can assure you I'm a programmer going on six years now. I'm fairly confident in my abilities.

So yeah, with all that said, discuss away.

 

[~Frozen Darkness~]

This seems highly interesting...
So, is this basically a Pokemon Starter Kit, like Poccil's?
If it is, I can't wait to see it!

If this gets released, I may take a go at making a game with it.
However, perhaps you should give the download only to people with some kind of proof, or else you'll see swarms of n00bs grasping for it.

I'll be happy to provide any resources that I can, whether it be sprites, sounds, etc.
I wish you luck!
~Frozen~

 

[Pokemon Black]

Yo James, very interesting. My little brother and myself actually love SA2Battle and were thinking of designing a similar system for pokemon using rpgmaker xp... lol. We never got it off the ground though. Lack of sprites im afraid. This was before Mystery dungeon.

Great vision ! I'll keep my eye on it.

 

[Poeman]

Cool idea but I think this should be in the ROM HACKING section, if you do this make sure you can transfer pokémon to the real games through pal park :D that would instantly make it worth my time.

 

[Maruno]

Cool idea but I think this should be in the ROM HACKING section, if you do this make sure you can transfer pokémon to the real games through pal park :D that would instantly make it worth my time.

It's got nothing to do with ROM hacking, except for the claim that "this will be easier than it".

When I read the first paragraph, I was reminded of an idea I had, which was a Pokémon version of Theme Hospital/Park/etc., based around a breeding centre. I'm almost disappointed to see your idea not progress in that direction.

Good luck to you, though. It's always nice to have other options available to use.

 

[Poeman]

He said it's a utility to create ROM's....

 

[Maruno]

He said it's a utility to create ROM's....

He really didn't. He calls it an application, and that he wrote it from scratch. He also says that if something like this already exists OR if ROM hacking is good enough, then ignore this thread (implying no overlap between his application and ROM hacking). He mentioned a friend of his who is hacking Emerald, who complains about it being hard, and that's it.

 

[musesum626]

This sounds like an amazing idea! Good luck making it, and I hope it turns out like you envision it. I could really have some fun with it!

 

[Poeman]

"basically an application that allows you to create a Pokemon game from scratch, mimicking all the details of the main games without having to work around hacking ROMs and so forth."

Sounds like a ROM to me. Sure it isn't hacking but it's still emulation.

 

[Mrchewy]

Poeman, I suggest you actually read his entire post before coming to silly conclusions. Yes, he discusses and mentions ROM hacking, but if you'd actually bothered to, you know, read what he was saying in-full, then you'd realize he's not going to be working with ROMs at all.

 

[Vociferocity]

This sounds like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure I really get it. So it would be kinda like using rpg maker + the starter kit, but without all the non-pokemon bits of rpg maker?

 

[kingjay99]

it's sounds cool, but when is your estimate on when it's going to come out? i'd love to use this. (P.S. does it have a map editor? if so it seems it would be almost perfect.

 

[KingCharizard]

Isn't there a game out like this officially, like a pokemon farm type of game? I think i remember this sort of idea done before.

 

[Syllyra]

I like the idea. It's a whole new type of pokemon-game.

Isn't there a game out like this officially, like a pokemon farm type of game? I think i remember this sort of idea done before.

I think that you're right :\, although I ain't sure.

 

[JJames19119]

I should probably stress that the Pokemon Breeder thing I made and my vision of a Creation Utility are both two different things. At the moment, I've stagnated work on the breeder game because I really have no clear direction on where I'd want to take it, not to mention a strong lack of sprites outside the small amount Mystery Dungeon gives you. I do have a rather complete beta however and I'll probably release it in the showcase board when I get the time.

As for the actual creation utility, it has nothing to do with ROM hacking at all, other then the fact that it's more or less inspired by it. Basically, when you get the download, you'll get the "engine" and the "builder" which both act separately from one another. You run the builder to edit and create game files which the engine can play. Game files will basically be archives of everything the engine needs to run properly; databases, sprites, maps, rules, etc. When you run the engine and tell it to run a particular game created with the builder, it'll unpack everything in the archive to a temporary folder and play the game. When the game is finished, the engine is closed, or the folder just otherwise no longer has anymore purpose, the folder is deleted, so it's only the archive taking up space again. Of course, I do intend on letting end users be capable of building nearly an entire game without having to use the builder.

As for Peter's Pokemon Essentials, I took a look at it yesterday and I was rather impressed by how well it emulated the advance games. Indeed, I don't think what I can do will do any better then it at mimicking the games, but I can tell you that it will be a lot easier to do. I'm not sure if this is a good thing though. We'll see.

I might as well start work on it when I can later, and post the breeder game too while I'm at it. Thanks for replying though!

 

[Mrchewy]

I may be a little biased here, but my suggestion would be to channel your efforts into the Starter Kit, rather than reinventing the wheel. While its somewhat limited, being dependent on RPG Maker XP, I think its the closest anyone will really ever get to recreating a Pokémon engine. As for simplicity, I think you'd be rather hard pressed to get much simpler than Essentials - granted, modifying core features of the kit can get a little tricky, but you don't even need to touch the scripts to create a fully functional game.

At the same time though, Essentials is rather imperfect. Lack of Gen IV features, an incredibly ugly and messy front end and a large number of bugs are just some of the problems it has. While I believe something better could certainly be created, I'm just thinking about achievability; if you do want to start your own project, than I'd really suggest getting in contact with poccil and discussing a possible collaboration.

 

[JJames19119]

Oh no, trust me, it's not bias. To be honest I had this thought based on the knowledge that making a Pokemon fan game from scratch was extremely difficult, knowledge that was outdated before I knew about Essentials. When I found out about it, as said earlier in this thread, I was rather impressed with how well it emulated the style down, this being in RMXP. While yes, it has tons of imperfections, it emulated it a lot nicely to the point to where I felt I wouldn't be able to do any better then it. Normally this would've stopped me from going any further, but not only did I already make the post, but it was done in RMXP. There was not only a whole lot of limitation to it, but a certain complexity that made it harder to make for then what it could be.

I believe recreating the Pokemon engine is not all that hard; Shoddy Battle did it to a certain extent and it did it well. The battle mechanics are for the most part, really accurate and optimized, and yet, allow for full flexibility. This is what I wanted. Coding for Shoddy Battle made me realized how limiting ROM hacking really is; while it was a lot, lot harder, it's still easier then hex, and a hell of a lot more open. All it really didn't do was the animations, which could more or less be implemented very easily if it weren't a major part of what the program is.

Using my knowledge I gained from becoming intimate with Shoddy's source, I felt the only thing I really had left to do past that point was an overworld engine and a few extras here and there. Of course, this is probably far from the truth, and I'm being too ambitious without actually studying what I'm doing first. This became somewhat apparent when I was checking out Essentials for the first time. But in all honesty, I think recreating the basic Pokemon engine is not only doable, but can be done better then what Essentials does.

I don't think I could work with Poccil if he intends on continuing to tie Essentials to RMXP. I had my fun with it for the while, but all in all, trying to make it do something it isn't meant to do not only over complicates things, but ends up never being as good as if you did it from scratch. While Pokemon is an RPG, it's done so much more differently then how RMXP does it. Looking in the script files for Essentials, this is easily apparent because you can see he's pretty much rewritten about 80% of the entire RMXP Ruby script from scratch, and then some. If I could work together with him on creating something new that isn't reliant on something like RMXP though, then I would by far so totally do it; I kinda look up to the man and I'm fairly decent at programming, though I will admit that my main forte is Java and C/++, I'm very inexperienced with Ruby, though I'm not afraid to try.

I'll give him a message sometime, though I dunno how free he would be.

 

[Xeo Neon]

Isn't there a game out like this officially, like a pokemon farm type of game? I think i remember this sort of idea done before.

I think that you're right :\, although I ain't sure.

You two are thinking of pokemon ranch the wiiware game. This sounds like a complety different idea.

 

[nmorr]

lol...I love this! In fact, I thought of making a pokemon game maker a while back. But I'm not that good at coding, GameMaker, RPG Maker, Anything...Either way, I'll try to send you some sprites if you need 'em! I'm so EXCITED! If this works out, you'll be bigger then poccil. In fact, Pokemon Essentiels has a few glitches in it. As well as a difficult way to choose the opponents pokemon and an unatractive layout. Either way, if you need sprites or some kind of help (that doesn't involve coding,lol) just PM me okay! THIS IS SO EXCITING! Also, I know I might be a little to excited, but either way, it's strange to make a pokemon game with RPG XP. But that's just me as I've been using game maker these past few years. But it is easier, and I'm happy about that.

Anyways, I hope you succeed my friend, and once again, PM me if you need any sprites or some help or suggestions.

BTW: It may be a good idea to make a website based on this, I can make it for you if you want, right now I'm trying a new site making engine.
;)

 

[davidthefat]

I think it can be as simple as an XML file with a gif put into a custom file. Like the Pak file: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/pak/
Then the game can import the said file and have some "mod" system that a lot of pc games have. Just put all the pokemon files in teh folder and the game goes through all that and loads it... Not as complicated as it sounds.

The back end is simple, the user end like the GUI might take a bit more time to code, but you can just fstream stuff out, that can be the easy but messy way out or you can even encrypt it and or use XML