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6th Gen Pokemon, slowly losing creativity?

CourageHound

Trust & Courage. Nothing More
823
Posts
11
Years
  • Take a look at the design elements that went into Haxorus, and compare them to Garchomp's. The difference is night and day. I can't see how Game Freak was minimalistic with its design at all. The thing has axes on its face. Those aren't teeth, so a sabertooth-esque excuse doesn't cut it, they're in a completely awkward position and would be incredibly difficult to even use as a weapon. The body appears to be heavily armored, with ridges, segments, and spikes everywhere. Compare that with the style of previous pseudo-legendary dragons. Again, it's night and day. The previous iterations went for form and function. This one went for just badassery.
    Pokedex entry cleary states its Teeth/tusks. And...why does every dragon have to have the same design? You don't see animals having the exact same adaptations across the world in their different environments and survive.

    Game Freak largely "limited" (though I wouldn't call consistency limiting) themselves for the first four generations. Keeping your style consistent is important. If they suddenly decided to do all the artwork for new Pokemon in a cubist style, it wouldn't be a good thing when you stand the newbies next to even the Gen 5 ones. That may be a bit extreme, but I find it illustrates the stylistic point I am trying to make quite clearly. You can't switch up something as basic and inherent as an art style if you're keeping things from your "old days" around.

    What you are stating, doesn't sound valid. Changing some of the constant features relate-able pokemon having from one gen to another is hardly what I would call changing an art style.


    The fact that I am even ABLE to overanalyze the designs pretty much proves their complexity. It'd be difficult to sit down and think hard about Dragonite's design, or Ditto, or Magnemite. Their concepts translate well into Pokemon, and they didn't have to strap a laser cannon, several menacing spikes, and a totally strange color scheme on them for them to work.

    They work cuz Ken Sugimori says so

    EDIT: While I agree, his work may seem a bit more..defined recently, I would hardly categorize the new pokemon as aliens to the old
     
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    Deokishisu

    Mr. Magius
    990
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • For example, I think we have two very different naturals if Meloetta is conceived to be natural. But again, this is pokemon. There is no set design and concepts as to which pokemon can be delegated to

    Hoooooooold on there buddy, I'mma bring out some pictures!

    Pokemon, slowly losing creativity?


    If you had no prior knowledge of Pokemon, would you group Meloetta with this:

    Pokemon, slowly losing creativity?
    or this:
    Pokemon, slowly losing creativity?


    I would group Meloetta up with Clefable myself. It really looks, to me at least, that if they had stuck Meloetta into Gen 2 in place of Celebi people would think it'd fit in just perfectly.

    Gamefreak has really caught a good amount of fans pleasantly off-guard, as they've really dug deep into their imaginations and made something that, while it might not physiologically resemble anything in real-life, would appeal to gamers regardless.

    I honestly do not agree. If they really did dig deep into their imaginations, they didn't take the necessary step to refine their ideas fully before implementing them. You don't mine a raw diamond and call it a day, you clean it and cut it so it fits in with all the other diamonds.

    I think we can both agree that Haxorus looks more badass than the previous dragons. And though we may never know whether Game Freak specifically said, "Oh, let's just make it badass and that'll be the design. Everyone likes dragons like that," we'll never know. We can infer just by looking at it that that was the case, however. The axes, the spikes, and the body armor clearly set it apart from its earlier counterparts. This trend is prevalent in all the Gen 5 cross-generational counterparts. They either badass them up and call it a day, or strip them down to nothing and call it a day. That's not consistent with the Pokemon style at all, and in my opinion, is what made many of the Pokemon this time around not seem like Pokemon.

    Also, think about how Haxorus would have to position itself to butcher a Pokemon of smaller stature standing right in front of it? It'd either have to turn its head so the axes are vertical and chop downward (which would be a sideways motion for its now turned neck), or crouch all the way down and horizontally swipe. The heavy body armor and spikes on its spinal column reach up into its thin neck. I can't see Haxorus being able to chop quickly, or with much power with that thin little neck. All its bulk is in its lower body. This whole picture together makes Haxorus poorly adapted for battle from a realistic standpoint. That's my take on it at least.

    Though I personally am a fan of Ludicolo, I think that it can be classified into the bad category by many fans. Unfortunately, it share this distinction with many of the Gen 5 Pokemon, so I guess it has plenty of opportunities to make friends!

    Obviously, it's not like it has spikes on its arms and legs or anything. (What are those for? Does Garchomp impale prey... with its elbows and knees?) Or two weird things protruding from the side of its head. (Can you please tell me what those are for?) Or that tail, with the giant ridge on it. Or the star on its head. Or the giant dorsal fin protruding from its back for no apparent reason.
    Garchomp exudes its power with a more simplistic design than Haxorus does. Also, Garchomp is based on a hammerhead shark. That's what the head things and the fins come from. You've got me with the spikes, but I don't think that having them brings Garchomp into pleading for badass appeal territory, like Haxorus does.

    While your comparison between Jigglypuff and the other previous generation Pokemon are correct, you're comparing Pokemon that you can't draw any relation to. Compare Jigglypuff instead to Audino, and Whismur, who I would consider close to cross-generational counterparts.

    I would argue that the screws in Magnemite keep his design from being too bare bones, which would conflict with the style Game Freak had had going until Gen 5. Take a look and Klink and compare him to Magnemite. See what I mean?

    Pokedex entry cleary states its Teeth/tusks. And...why does every dragon have to have the same design? You don't see animals having the exact same adaptations across the world in their different environments and survive.
    And above all else, it seems that they are teeth/tusks! Which means Haxorus shouldn't be able to fully close its jaw. Not every dragon has to be the same dragon. Dragonite, Salamence, and Garchomp are clearly not the same. But they're also different without reaching Haxorus-level grabs for badassery.

    What you are stating, doesn't sound valid. Changing some of the constant features relate-able pokemon having from one gen to another is hardly what I would call changing an art style.

    I do see it as changing an art style in regards to Pokemon creation, and it's clear when I look at the new ones and compare with cross-generational counterparts. Though, I don't suppose this is a point that can be argued or well defended.

    They work cuz Ken Sugamori says so

    Well then, if you insist :P

    I really need a word with the same connotation as "badass". I actually hate that word.
     

    droomph

    weeb
    4,285
    Posts
    12
    Years
  • Okay, so:

    Obviously, it's not like it has spikes on its arms and legs or anything. (What are those for? Does Garchomp impale prey... with its elbows and knees?) Or two weird things protruding from the side of its head. (Can you please tell me what those are for?) Or that tail, with the giant ridge on it. Or the star on its head. Or the giant dorsal fin protruding from its back for no apparent reason.



    Umm, what's Ditto supposed to even be...? Let's bring up Haxorus again. It's pretty easy from the start to say: dinosaur with axe-jaws. Is Ditto supposed to be an amoeba or something? What are those antennas (?) on Dragonite's head, and what are they for? Detecting temperature? Are they supposed to be feelers like whiskers or something?

    Why does Magnemite have screws drilled into itself... for no apparent reason? Since when do giant magnetic spheres... have eyes? Why does Magemite have eyes, anyway? Does that imply it has organic organs inside it, or what...? Or are the 'eyes' supposed to be mechanical?
    Okay, first off, I don't mind if people hate something, it's none of my business.

    But to explain that, there are certain parts in our body that we don't use either - why do we have a tailbone? An appendix? A spleen?

    And then there is the other, more "beauty"-oriented features. Maybe having spikes correlates with fertility and strength, thus the bigger-spiked are more advantageous in finding a mate?

    Since we're not strictly Protein-and-DNA here, the evolutionary details can be exaggerated. Sometimes only a little, most of the time a lot.

    In my opinion, Game Freak could add all the extraneous details, and there could still be an explanation. Until they start creating Pokémon with guns on their backs, it's fine.
    You are completely right in this aspect! For example, part of the reason I have not come to terms with Generation VI's starters is that the new starters look like Digimon in comparison to Diglett and Miltank. And, Vanilluxe and Voltorb just don't like right together. However, I already feel it's too late to be worrying too much about that:

    Garchomp versus:

    I find more similarities between Trubbish and Jigglypuff, than Jigglypuff and Garchomp. And, I find more similarities between Jigglypuff and Trubbish, than similarities between Jigglypuff and Starmie.
    An explanation for this could be that 8-bit graphics (such that you were limited to a canvas of about 7/8ths of an inch) reduced the amount of detail that would be possible. As you can see, every time a new generation presents an old Pokémon, they try to compensate in one way or another. Sometimes, they elaborate on minor details, and sometimes, they shade a bit more.

    However, when they make new Pokémon, they can make it as complicated and featured as they currently can, instead of being limited to the previous amount. As you can see, every generation has a trend towards being more complicated - no "Gen 3 got simpler and then Gen 4 got more complicated" stuff. Just more complicated.
     

    Deokishisu

    Mr. Magius
    990
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • An explanation for this could be that 8-bit graphics (such that you were limited to a canvas of about 7/8ths of an inch) reduced the amount of detail that would be possible. As you can see, every time a new generation presents an old Pokémon, they try to compensate in one way or another. Sometimes, they elaborate on minor details, and sometimes, they shade a bit more.

    However, when they make new Pokémon, they can make it as complicated and featured as they currently can, instead of being limited to the previous amount. As you can see, every generation has a trend towards being more complicated - no "Gen 3 got simpler and then Gen 4 got more complicated" stuff. Just more complicated.

    That is an absolutely excellent point. One that I hadn't thought of until just now. Though I agree with you that the small canvas the original Pokemon had may be a factor in their simplicity, it took a lot of style and talent to make those concepts work. Unfortunately it seems that more doesn't equal better.

    I had a metaphor here, but it turned out really terrible and hollow, so I backspaced it away.

    EDIT: So I guess they just crossed the event horizon of "complex is acceptable" sometime between Gen 4 and Gen 5.

    EDIT2:
    Until they start creating Pokémon with guns on their backs, it's fine.
    I'm also just going to head this off at the pass. Blastoise. We all have a good laugh now? Good.
     
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    bobandbill

    one more time
    16,941
    Posts
    16
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  • Message said:
    Forgive me, I have no idea how multi-quoting works,
    It's the button next to the quote one bottom right of each post (should say Multiquote on it, or at least when you hover over it). And you can manually put in who said what in the box via
    Message said:
    , as above.

    A quick point I haven't seen while breezing over is that art styles also evolve over time, so that may have just been the general trend of the Pokemon creators (Sugimori primarily) over the years. As such I don't really feel it is fair to expect that Pokemon designs continue to have the same general aspects or traits overall.
    Though I personally am a fan of Ludicolo, I think that it can be classified into the bad category by many fans.
    What fans are these? It's a mexican dancing pineapple duck with a sombero, whatever's wrong with that? =p
     

    Deokishisu

    Mr. Magius
    990
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • Or y'know, they can just put just about zero effort into design and thought and call it a day, as is the case with a good majority of Gen I.
    I vehemently disagree with that sentiment, to the point where I'm actually shocked that anyone could think that. Gen 1 had more effort into their designs and thought processes than any generation, as they had no style, no previous concepts to build upon, nothing. Even if we're looking at Gen 1 in a vacuum, I'd say that quite a lot of effort was expended translating those concepts into those Pokemon. I don't think it's effort used that's being argued, because every Pokemon takes some effort to make, I think it's end quality.



    ....You do realize Haxorus doesn't need to do that, right? On smaller opponents, it can just use Earthquake, or y'know, Dragon Tail, Low Kick, Outrage, y'know, that kind of stuff. You're looking way too deep into this, no offense. :(
    From a realistic standpoint I was arguing how awkward Haxorus looks. Also, every move listed save Earthquake falls prey to the bulky armor and spikes limiting speed and flexibility.

    Again, arguing physiological distinctions is null and void because Gen III has already broken that chain. And heck, I would even argue that Gen II manage to break it, also. Have you seen Wobbuffet???

    Spoiler:



    And heck, I'll throw in Bellossom for good measure because apparently GF gave it "feet" that no one in the history of pokemon has seen, ever. How in the world does it move?

    So in essence, what you're saying is that debating is pointless, keep calm and play Pokemon? Anyway, there has always been Pokemon that "break the chain", historically people don't like them. But suddenly when it's an entire generation, it's okay.

    In that case, I question why you have a problem with this now it seems, when it's been that way for years.
    The tone is turning a wee bit unfriendly, but I'll bite. Hopefully you're a Psychic-type so it's super effective! Yes, there have been Pokemon that have broken the chain before. But never an entire generation. The only reason I, and others, "suddenly" have a problem with it is because never before has the majority of a generation of Pokemon also broken the chain. That is where the problem lies. I'm hopeful that Game Freak mends the chain with this new generation.

    What fans are these? It's a mexican dancing pineapple duck with a sombero, whatever's wrong with that? =p

    Queue the Miror B. encounter music! Everybody Ludicolo dance!

     
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    5,616
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    I saw ditto mentioned earlier. There was an interview some time ago. The developers in the interview revealed that Ditto is based off of a smiley face. Nothing more, nothing less. No deep meaning behind its design.

    As for this dinosaur aged preschool fight. If Generation 1 were released now, the same issues would still exist. Everyone would still be complaining about it because you have something to base it off of.

    All Pokemon look like Digimon. Even the cutesy pootsy ones because there are vomit inducing cute monsters in Digimon. Not everyone is going to agree with the opinions of the other side.
     

    PokemonMasters

    Always Remember Forever&After
    389
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  • No. I dont think they are loosing creativity. The starters looks so awesome. I just hate that legendary in Pokemon Y. I think they could've done better with that.
     

    kammond

    Huh
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  • Any franchises art style will evolve over time. This isn't a lack of creativity at all, it's just that you're not used to the new look.
     
    2,777
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    There's a huge difference between a creative concept and that concept translating well into a Pokemon. I could have a concept of a food based on cyanide, but that doesn't mean the concept translates well into a delicious treat. (A bit extreme, but it's late, my metaphor organ is tired.)

    Gen 5 was full of great concepts that either couldn't be translated well into a Pokemon or simply weren't. The Klink line, you cannot say that Klink and friends are more creative or original looking than the original Magnemite line, their Gen I cousins.

    Yes, every generation has had its "bad" Pokemon, but Gen 5 was full of them because of the conflict between concept and translation. Let's just hope that this Game Freak learned its lesson and thinks a little harder this time around.

    Whether you think they were executed well or not is up to the individual's analysis; there is no one true answer. I think gen 5 had some of the most successfully executed concepts with their Pokemon, for example--which seems to be the exact opposite of your opinion.

    Now, I'm not trying to argue if they were executed well, but you can't deny that their concepts are far more creative than before.
     
    17,600
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    Every single generation, there are people who believe that they're losing creativity. Its starting to get really tiring. Just because the style of the Pokémon is changing doesn't mean that they're losing creativity. Just because they relate Pokémon in new generations to Pokémon of older generations doesn't mean they're losing creativity. Just because they design a Pokémon off of an animal they've already designed a Pokémon on doesn't mean they're losing creativity. And just because you don't like the current Pokémon designs of a current generation doesn't mean they're losing creativity.
     

    audinowho

    Unovan Indeedee
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    • Seen May 9, 2024
    You don't have to like every Pokemon. The roster is diverse because people are diverse in their tastes. That Pokemon covers such a huge area of concepts is what allows it to appeal to everyone.

    It's just unfortunately, that same diversity is what allows any part of it to be hated by someone.
     

    bmah

    B.A.M.
    117
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  • Other than what others have stated already, I'm guessing that some people are bemoaning the designs of newer-generation Pokemon because they're more complex in design, whereas the earlier generations (esp. gen 1) had designs that seem to be more relatable for the most part - relatable in nature, less Pokemon based on inanimate objects (e.g. Bronzong), and so forth (see here and you can probably guess what most Pokemon are based off of). Of course there are still exceptions in those earlier generations, but a combination of simplicity, nostalgia, and simply understanding what most of those Pokemon were are probably all factors in people sticking to their old favorites.

    Those same people are probably exasperated at the complexity or strangeness of many newer-gen Pokemon, and they mistakenly refer to that perception as "running out of ideas". They likely see it as the designers needing to go out of their way just to find something different. And that certainly is true, but that's not necessarily a bad thing to many others.
     
    412
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  • i love pokemon, and i will most definitely picking this up opening day, but i have a fear that they are loosing the "creativity" with the pokemon they are creating. like some of the ones from gen 4/5? really weren't too appealing, i personally think with the new starters the water type is already a bust.

    feel free to explain your feelings here! I'm stoked to hear

    I dont think " creativity " is the right word. Something more along the lines of " your personal interests' could be more accurate, im not trying to be a downer either but i play
    Cod
    Ff
    es
    & pokemon
    I play other games but those are the only titles i purchase.
    Pokemon is probably the most creative out of the whole lot..
    I mean i can understand if your a sinnoh born fan... i dont mean any harm if you are or you arent but
    If you liked the interity of dpp and dont like the miniscule trailer we got of x and y then something is wrong...
    Im sorry but i remember sitting down playing red version wishing i could see my own pidgeot use wing attack
    Amen
    It is what it is 3d amen
    Gotta buy a 3ds ( crap). Amen
     

    xRekke

    Shiny Hunter
    44
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    • Seen Jan 5, 2014
    Kind of agree with you!
    Current version of pokemon artwork is not as nice as those in gen 1 & 2
     

    blue

    gucci
    21,057
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  • You've got to give credit where it's due, they have to come up with and name over 600 different species of Pokemon and that's really a challenge in itself. I've got no problems whatsoever with the new starters and legendaries, In fact they're the best I've seen in a long time.
     

    Kotowari

    Will be back eventually
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  • I wouldn't say Pokémon has lost its creativity. Their artstyle has just evolved and they just got more room for their designs. Sprites have gotten bigger and coloured since GenI, so of course they will use that extra space to release their creativity. Tell me, if I gave you 1/10th of an A4 paper and a full sheet of paper, and told you to design me a monster, would you get into the same amount of detail on both papers? I don't think so... I mean, I know I wouldn't.

    I also see people keep complaining about inanimate objects being translated into Pokémon, but don't forget that this is Japan we're talking about. Pokémon's country of origin has a long history of giving everything life in the form of Yokai and any other kind of demon. You bet that when GF makes a Pokémon based on the Kasa-obake, people will complain that it's stupid for being a one-eyed umbrella... but it's still one of the most well-known yokai.

    I'm actually liking the new designs. Comparing some GenI designs to some of the later designs, just makes them seem dull and boring. GenV has some of my favourite Pokémon (I'm looking at you, Serperior, Scollipede and Zebstrika) and I have no doubt that GenVI will present some very interesting creatures. Legendary X reminds me somewhat of the Deer god from Princess Mononoke, and that, to me, shows that it works as a legendary. :'d It really does have that god-allure without even trying (unlike e.g. those of the fourth gen).
     
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    bmah

    B.A.M.
    117
    Posts
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    Years
  • I also see people keep complaining about inanimate objects being translated into Pokémon, but don't forget that this is Japan we're talking about. Pokémon's country of origin has a long history of giving everything live in the form of Yokai and any other kind of demon. You bet that when GF makes a Pokémon based on the Kasa-obake, people will complain that it's stupid for being a one-eyed umbrella... but it's still one of the most well-known yokai.

    Excellent point. A lot of Pokemon designs have been based off of cultural familiarities within Japan, and that's something that Western audiences don't always understand and may pass off as "too weird for me". Whether you embrace those designs is up to you.
     

    voltianqueen

    WITH SEAWATER
    180
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    • Age 30
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    I'm actually happy with the new starters! Then again, I like all starters... Anyway, I took to them immediately. The legendaries look epic, too.

    I can't say I really liked most of the gen 5 Pokemon right off the bat, and while I pretty much got used to them, I'd have to say it's my least favorite in terms of Pokemon design. But did GF ever lose creativity? No way. I may think some of the new Pokemon are ugly as heck, but the ideas themselves are still good. It's just that I wasn't very fond of the execution of those ideas (and for the record, Trubbish is a pretty alright guy). Even in a batch that I didn't particularly like, though, I still found Pokemon that appealed to me and sorta reminded me of the older style, like Samurott, Zebstrika, and Zoroark.

    I'm hoping that I'll like more of the designs this gen :D
     
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