6th Gen Pokemon X: Y!?!

[Haru17]

If the horrible pun of a title didn't tip you off, this thread is about all of my game design gripes with generation 6. That's not to say I didn't like it; I wouldn't be posting here or even playing the game if I didn't. X and Y were a huge leap above black and white in my book, I just want to list out flaws and bad design choices here.

Time Wasting:
Breeding pokemon still takes a long time, even with flame body. Cycling back and forth past the daycare is not gameplay, so why are players forced to do it to breed pokemon? Party management is also archaic here; trades let you move pokemon from the storage system so why doesn't the day care?
Furthermore, there is a long intro into every battle in the game. The 20 second gap between every battle in the battle mansion adds up fast. There shouldn't be delays after button presses, just skip to the next screen of text instantly. Similarly battle animations take a while. It takes so long I just turn them off after seeing them for the first time. (You just can't do horde encounters with animations on, it takes a minute for everyone to even attack.) They would do better just to make short and sweet animations that are visually engaging without wasting time.


Aesthetics
Physical attacks don't actually make contact, most just have your pokemon slide forward a bit. The odd mix of sprite-based animations (Metal Claw) and particle effects (Aura Sphere) makes the former look very cheap and out of place. Finally, and this is the most important area of the visuals, pokemon character design continues to be very hit and miss. Just compare Barbaracle to Aurorus. There's no comparison; one is well designed and the other has a hand for a head and striped limbs.


Story
The plot is a generic waste of time. The same thing that always happens in pokemon games happens: we meet a rival, challenge 8 gyms, manage to stop an evil team's plotting by catching a mythical beast, and finally beat the elite four and the random passerby that happens to be their champion this time. (Honestly, why is the champion always some random person?) Pokemon games don't need to have a amazing plot, but if they don't then why force everyone to endure the generic stuff they didn't bother to write well. Just streamline the unimportant bits rather than writing a bunch of story that your game makes everyone want to skip.

Many NPCs in the game talk about how precious and special each pokemon is. This is a fine moral to support, but the game's mechanics undermine it by including plenty of useless pokemon. If the story is trying to tell us how special each pokemon is then the mechanics should reinforce that. A short side quest for the new pokemon would be nice, to get their signature hold item, special move, or just to catch them.

Gameplay
This is perhaps the most important part. Plenty of people on forums will say that the game is largely balanced for double battles. Plenty of moves and abilities only make sense in those battles (wide guard, heal pulse, helping hand, etc.) However, there are only about 8 double battles in the entire game. Single battles just aren't as fun, most turn based RPGs have quad battles. Increased battle diversity is sorely needed.

Obviously we all play Pokemon despite its flaws, but if the series wants to become a force in modern gaming it needs to shed its amateurish mistakes and polish itself into a shining diamond, if you will, of a game.

 

[scprepschool]

All of the things that you mentioned I can agree on to an extent, but I mean... it goes along with territory man, its a pokemon game. They haven't changed their formula since the beginning. I mean when they hit us with a sequel in 5th gen our minds were blown, that's sad. Yet a lot of us are still huge fans and will buy every instalment they make for the main series. Some even buy the side games.
I say all that to say this, I am fine with the games except for one thing they need to do for me to continue dumping money into their pockets. The freaking difficulty man. They have to like make the normal very easy and have a difficulty set like 10 times higher, if the normal is easy then I want to be able to play Expert ultimate killer dangerous chemical caution hardened veteran x20 mode. I want to wonder into a patch of grass that has charmander and run the risk of running into momma bear, lv 30 charizard man against my lv15 team... The game is literally set up so that you can never loose. That is my one gripe with the series in general

 

[Phangy]

it's targeted to 6 years olds from 15 years ago. Nintendo and game freak haven't really caught on that kids these day are more mature or that the original fans are still playing their games. They think adding things like breeding and IV stats make it better for the older gen of gamers, but most of that focus was found my players themselves. It's meant to be super simple, no big long drawn out stories, no over complicated gameplay. Until they bring is designers and writers who are more intune with the western market, we won't be seeing much of a change in pokemon games.

Now add in technical limitations, the 3ds can only handle so much. So trying to cram in animations for 700+ pokemon just isn't possible, plus that would be months of work.

The breeding is set up so that you can't flood your game with extra pokemon and give a bit of realize into the game. Eggs don't hatch over night, so why would pokemon eggs hatch any faster?

The gameplay seemed no different to me than any other pokemon game. The only thing I noticed was a bit of an unbalance of types in the game. In the past there would be areas where you got your fire or electric or rock pokemon, but I don't remember there being anything like that in X and Y. Correct me if i'm wrong, it's been awhile since i did a playthrough and i just started a new one and haven't gotten far.

 

[Hikamaru]

The others have given reasons why they do this but I'll add my part in to.

As Phangy stated, they are mainly aiming for the target audience which is usually aged around 6-15, they can't always cater to the veteran players like myself who have been into Pokemon since the 1st Gen days, and while they update some stuff like breeding and IV mechanics to make it better for the veteran players. Pokemon games are meant to be easy, like not too long storylines or no overcomplications in gameplay.

Also, the 3DS does have its limitations. Cramming in animations for 718 (soon to be 719 thanks to Diancie) takes ages to work on, that's why they put loads of work into X and Y. Plus the regional Pokedex in Kalos is extremely huge they had to make some Pokemon only obtainable in one area, and even by a certain method to a lesser extent.

I've heard some older players complaining about the Exp. Share in this game, but the reason it's there is for the younger players because in the past I believe they had issues with leveling up their Pokemon to a decent level and given the levels of major characters (i.e. Gym Leaders, villain team, Elite Four, rivals) when you battle them they want to at least make sure they won't be at too heavy of a disadvantage.

I started playing Pokemon games during 3rd Gen, at the age of 11 and I'm 21 now and still playing Pokemon games. I may have my likes and dislikes but I'm still enjoying the game nonetheless. Everyone has opinions, remember.

 

[Oblivion Wing]

I can agree to a point. To me, this gen is close to what to the consumer wants. I've also been playing pokemon since the first gen, and who remembers asking themselves "i wish they could make a pokemon game where battling is like pokemon stadium" (N64)... I certainly do! And i was actualky surprised that they did it, specially with the 3DS.

Now what i agree on is, yes difficulty is easy, yes some animation is not fit, but in my book, they still did a good job. Hopefully they can do the same work, if not better, when/if they decide to release the R/S/E remake :-)

 

[Haru17]

They think adding things like breeding and IV stats make it better for the older gen of gamers, but most of that focus was found my players themselves.

That's not compelling gameplay, especially since all of the information you need is online in complex guides. Wasting time for the random chance of a pokemon with the moves you want, a good nature, a good ability, and good IVs is just overcomplicated wasting time.

Now add in technical limitations, the 3ds can only handle so much. So trying to cram in animations for 700+ pokemon just isn't possible, plus that would be months of work.

They have at least 4-6 animations per pokemon as it is (click on pokemon in their summary pages), it's just that they're not as good as they should be. Metal claw should show the attacking packmen clawing the other pokemon. Games are years of work, we should hope that they're making an effort.

The breeding is set up so that you can't flood your game with extra pokemon and give a bit of realize into the game. Eggs don't hatch over night, so why would pokemon eggs hatch any faster.

The game is set up in a way that directs you to breed a lot. The gameplay of breeding is just walking and waiting. That's literally wasting time! At least allow players to set eggs on a timer in the storage system while doing other stuff.

Overall nothing will come of fans excusing / protecting a successful business. Game Freak has all of the money they would ever need to do whatever they want to in pokemon games, they should innovate not stagnate. I think X&Y were innovation when compared to black & white's stagnation, but they need to polish their product in the next system. Forced waiting times are just inexcusable and waste the time of players. Also, we seriously need more single player double battles.

 

[Iceshadow3317]

They added the powers for a reason. You can get a full party of eggs and hatch them with in 6 minutes, sometimes a little more.

They don't force you to breed and what else is there to do after you beat the game other than train?

 

[scprepschool]

( my other piece was more about pkmn games in general's difficulty: I would like the option to play a harder game, yet I will still play the games either way )
but
one small thing that did bug me about x & y was the lack of gen 6's pkmn's evolutions being showcased in the wild. Not including friend safari just story playthrough. The only one's I can recall are trevenant and spewpa and I think diggersby.
I mean I would like to run into wild pyroars, floettes, doublades, gogoats... okay so clawitzer and dragalge are available in the wild but still, it just didn't seem like they really showcased the 6th gens pkmn. There was like one place and one place only to get a lot of the pokemon, which is good for better tier pokemon, I appreciate having only one place to get my pumpkaboo, but stuff like litleo and pancham only being located in one route kind of slightly bugs me. Like espurr and honedge only being available in one route in the game and it being the same route... but that is a small thing and I'm pretty sure it doesn't really even bother most of you, but I would have liked more kalos exclusive mons all over. Pretty much the only gripe I have with X&Y in particular and its not even a big deal really.
Other than that everything about X&Y is what I want in a pokemon game. I get my competitive fix from COD & my gripping interactive rpg from games like elder scrolls. Pokémon is what it is and its hard for me to explain because its the only game of its type that I play and the only reason I even own a handheld, I literally haven't ever bought another Nintendo title except for Mario kart back on 64

 

[Howmander]

Time Wasting:
Breeding pokemon still takes a long time, even with flame body. Cycling back and forth past the daycare is not gameplay, so why are players forced to do it to breed pokemon? Party management is also archaic here; trades let you move pokemon from the storage system so why doesn't the day care?
Furthermore, there is a long intro into every battle in the game. The 20 second gap between every battle in the battle mansion adds up fast. There shouldn't be delays after button presses, just skip to the next screen of text instantly. Similarly battle animations take a while. It takes so long I just turn them off after seeing them for the first time. (You just can't do horde encounters with animations on, it takes a minute for everyone to even attack.) They would do better just to make short and sweet animations that are visually engaging without wasting time.

This I take exception to. You understand ALL games are time wasting, right? You can play cribbage, or poker, or chess or any game you can mention, it's ALL a waste of time. That's the point of games.

Where exactly is anyone being forced to breed pokemon? I don't remember starting the game and then being kidnapped and having my limbs bolted to a table and hands wired to a 3DS breeding pokemon for every single day of my life. No one HAS to do anything.

Breeding has never been easier if you know what you're doing. Get a pokemon with the nature you want, breed with an ever stone so all offspring have the same nature and a destiny knot so their stats are getting passed down then just keep switching parents so more and more IVs are getting passed down. Once I got the pokemon I was looking for with the right nature and IV spread literally within a couple hours. And if you're cycling back and forth on the daycare route you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to go to Lumiose City to any intersection, hold extreme right or extreme left and you just spin endlessly which literally hatches eggs within 5 - 6 minutes. You can even gently wedge a folded up post it note under the joystick and go on the internet or something and check your email. Within 30 minutes you can have 30 hatched pokemon with at least one in the iv spread you want.

If you aren't getting the next box of dialogue instantly then you obviously haven't changed the text speed. Do so. It speeds up your text.

I WILL give you the horde battle take forever, that is ridiculous. They should have at least let more than one pokemon rake part, but you know what? You can run from them. You don't actually HAVE to do them. Or you can just use repels and not fight any wild battles at all. The amount of things you say we are forced to do makes me hope you never get sent to prison because the things you're forced to do as part of your sentence are very different from the things you're "forced" to do in a pokemon game! ;-)

 

[Banned]

Time Wasting:
Breeding pokemon still takes a long time, even with flame body. Cycling back and forth past the daycare is not gameplay, so why are players forced to do it to breed pokemon? Party management is also archaic here; trades let you move pokemon from the storage system so why doesn't the day care?

It would be boring and completely ruin the sense of achievement if you could put two Pokemon in the Daycare and magically get an Egg immediately. And as others have said, it would also destroy the magic by making it less realistic. I agree about the party management though with regards to the Daycare, the IV Judge, etc.

Furthermore, there is a long intro into every battle in the game. The 20 second gap between every battle in the battle mansion adds up fast. There shouldn't be delays after button presses, just skip to the next screen of text instantly. Similarly battle animations take a while. It takes so long I just turn them off after seeing them for the first time. (You just can't do horde encounters with animations on, it takes a minute for everyone to even attack.) They would do better just to make short and sweet animations that are visually engaging without wasting time.

You can skip to the next piece of text immediately by pressing A while the text is scrolling. You can turn off battle animations too. There are options if you find the graphics tiresome (although I don't see how you could; the battle animations are beautifully constructed and there are some quite amusing NPC quotes). Making the animations themselves shorter would detract from the beauty of the game, so I don't think that's an option.

Aesthetics
Physical attacks don't actually make contact, most just have your pokemon slide forward a bit. The odd mix of sprite-based animations (Metal Claw) and particle effects (Aura Sphere) makes the former look very cheap and out of place.

I don't think you quite understand the leap in scale of difficulty from making animations involving one Pokemon to making animations involving two Pokemon interacting (because that's what contact would entail). It would be necessary to make separate animations for each pair of Pokemon, which suddenly means that instead of having to make 718 separate sets of animations, Game Freak now has to make 718 x 718 = 515,524 of them. The 3DS just doesn't have the capacity for that many animations. I'm sure you've already seen that the game sometimes lags slightly in Triple Battles, so it's already stretched to its limit.

Story
The plot is a generic waste of time. The same thing that always happens in pokemon games happens: we meet a rival, challenge 8 gyms, manage to stop an evil team's plotting by catching a mythical beast, and finally beat the elite four and the random passerby that happens to be their champion this time. (Honestly, why is the champion always some random person?)

Most people, unlike us, have not been following the Pokemon franchise since the first generation. So the plot is completely new to them. Making it similar in each generation also removes some of the pressure from the game designers and in addition makes the game more relatable, as each one has a sense of familiarity.

Many NPCs in the game talk about how precious and special each pokemon is. This is a fine moral to support, but the game's mechanics undermine it by including plenty of useless pokemon.

Useless Pokemon? Name one. (Hint: There aren't any.)

Gameplay
This is perhaps the most important part. Plenty of people on forums will say that the game is largely balanced for double battles. Plenty of moves and abilities only make sense in those battles (wide guard, heal pulse, helping hand, etc.) However, there are only about 8 double battles in the entire game. Single battles just aren't as fun, most turn based RPGs have quad battles. Increased battle diversity is sorely needed.

The new moves were introduced to improve the Double and Triple Battle experience and make it a more popular style by diversifying the strategies available. This was mostly done with online battling in mind, so I'm not sure your argument is valid. However, it has always been a gripe of mine that there is too much focus on Single Battles in the main storyline, so I agree in that sense.

 

[Ghost Lunis]

My only real complaint was that it was too short in contrast to how epic the gameplay felt. With the amazing graphics and good story, it felt as if the actual game play could go on forever and it was bittersweet to get to the champion.

 

[Pendraflare]

Yeah, to me it felt like there was just something missing from the game. While playing through it was epic, to say the least, it left me wanting more. And the final battles, while they did have some awesome presentations, music and very cool Elite Four rooms, battling them was so boring. :/ Then the post-game is kinda small also.

However, as others have said, this IS a franchise generally made for children, so I can't really see them changing the formula anytime soon.

 

[Phangy]

They have at least 4-6 animations per pokemon as it is (click on pokemon in their summary pages), it's just that they're not as good as they should be. Metal claw should show the attacking packmen clawing the other pokemon. Games are years of work, we should hope that they're making an effort.

it took years to make what we have now, it would be at least 2 more just to add animations like that, you would have to do it to each pokemon individually. That's a lot of work for something that doesn't effect the game in a real way.

The game is set up in a way that directs you to breed a lot. The gameplay of breeding is just walking and waiting. That's literally wasting time! At least allow players to set eggs on a timer in the storage system while doing other stuff.

The game does not require to breed anything in order to beat it, so it's not set up in any way in that regard. You really only breed if you want to get into the very detailed competitive parts of the games or with you want to try for a shiny. Both of which are the gamers choice, nothing to do with how the game was made, especially since GF does not take suggestions from fans. Plus you're supposed to carry the egg with you while you go on your journey, not just run back and forth the route. Kinda like Togepi in the anime.

 

[Puddle]

I was planning on plotting out every single point of yours and saying my opinion, but I don't know enough on the subject. The egg can't just spontaneously hatch! That's not what happens at all. Also, they should probably have a button that allows you to speed up animations. And of course, designs will be off. You can't get a perfectly created design every time. And the reason the story stays generic is because that's how it happened in the series. So it only makes since to keep it like that.

 

[Phangy]

And the reason the story stays generic is because that's how it happened in the series. So it only makes since to keep it like that.

it was only like that in the beginning cuz that's all the tech would allow. You can make really good, deep kid friendly content now a days, they just don't have the writers for it. A lot of the same people have been in charge of making these games and they're just too old fashioned to stay current. Either that or it's perfect for Japanese children, idk japan's culture too well.

 

[Sopheria]

I agree with most of what you said, but there's a few things I don't quite agree with.

Time Wasting:
Breeding pokemon still takes a long time, even with flame body. Cycling back and forth past the daycare is not gameplay, so why are players forced to do it to breed pokemon?

You're not really forced to do it. Breeding is completely optional, and if you find breeding to be too tedious then you can easily complete and enjoy the game without having to do any breeding. I think this would be a legitimate complaint if breeding were an essential part of the game, but it's optional, so there's no need to do breeding if you don't want to.

Animations take a while. It takes so long I just turn them off after seeing them for the first time. (You just can't do horde encounters with animations on, it takes a minute for everyone to even attack.) They would do better just to make short and sweet animations that are visually engaging without wasting time.

Just a personal opinion, but I think the battle animations are just the right length.

Story
The plot is a generic waste of time. The same thing that always happens in pokemon games happens: we meet a rival, challenge 8 gyms, manage to stop an evil team's plotting by catching a mythical beast, and finally beat the elite four and the random passerby that happens to be their champion this time. (Honestly, why is the champion always some random person?) Pokemon games don't need to have a amazing plot, but if they don't then why force everyone to endure the generic stuff they didn't bother to write well. Just streamline the unimportant bits rather than writing a bunch of story that your game makes everyone want to skip.

I completely agree with this, but I'm willing to forgive it for a few reasons. One is that this generation is such a huge overhaul of the entire Pokemon series in terms of gameplay and graphics. So I think they made the right decision by sticking to the usual plot formula. As KingNappy on youtube once said, Pokemon will never be the same after this. So as the first game in a new "era" of Pokemon, it was a good idea to stick to the same old generic Pokemon game plot in order to ease the transition. But, if it's like this in future generations I won't be nearly as forgiving...

Everything else you said, I agree with 100%.

 

[AshtheIVth]

I have seen some really good ideas for the series, but like others have stated remember pokemon is targeted to the younger ages, so they cant make it too complicated. That being said, i agree with alot of the complaints as well, like for instance, why is it that they cant come up with a new storyline? I've played pokemon since Red/Blue/Yellow and it does essentially feel like the same game over and over, just new places, people, and pokemon. Also, it does seem too easy, but once again, made for younger kids, I'm used to doing a bit of grinding for Exp between towns, so my pokemon are always a good 3-5 levels above the gym leaders. BUT, and I think others can agree with this, I WANT to see a pokemon game with every main region accessible (possibly Orre too), every starter with each new region, possibly every pokemon put in their native region, and even every badge obtainable (32 badges!!). At the very least make a game with every region, I dont care if it takes years, just not longer than Kingdom Hearts 3 is taking lol. As long as we had guarantee it was being made, i would pay double the normal price for it!

 

[Pochama95]

Everyone talks about how there's nothing to do after the elite 4, but personally I can barely find time to breed my army, get the battle items, shiny hunting (which is big in this game), playing older games for legendaries, wonder trading massive amounts of unneeded bred pokemon

 

[Twilight-kun]

The story seems rushed
(Lysandre comes out of nowhere and says "Okay, we're going to kill you all, by the way, feel free to come challenge us at our very obvious hideouts")

AZ shows up, what, three times and then you never see him again?
By far, he was the most interesting character with the most work put into his back story

The new pokemon rarely ever show up, they're all overshadowed by the abundance of older-gen pokemon
(Fixing that woudl be as easy as giving older gen pokemon less chance to appear)

I don't use breeding or care about Shinies, so that point is irrelevant to me

The fact you have to see the Legendary birds 12 times before you can even try capturing them is a waste of time

You should be able to rematch Gym Leaders and the Elite Four's pokemon don't gain any levels, even after you complete the Looker sub-quest (Which was really well put together)

The requirements to enter Lumiose's Botique are very obscure and the prices are outrageous

The various single room caves scattered around Kalos serve no purpose, the least they could do is make them like Secret Grottos with special pokemon or items in them daily

I hope Pokemon Z addresses these issues, and Zygarde's Pokedex entry seems to hint at possible Hoenn-like possiblities, since it only shows up when Kalos' Ecosystem gets out of whack

that, and the fact the Kalos' legendary pokemon are red, blue and green are very similar to Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza...

 

[Haru17]

The story is naturally formulaic, although it's taken some really bold directions in Black/White (not so much the case with the sequels, sadly). X and Y, by comparison, felt conservative. Still, if you streamline the game entirely, what would you be playing the game for? The mechanics? (No.)

The story is bad, so I hope I'm not playing for its sake. I play pokemon for the battles, RPG character development, adventure, exploration, discovery, and most importantly character design.

While I did direct my "little children" comment at how complex the game could get, I think getting too close and physical might start crossing into the realm of "violent". They could be a lot more dynamic—the Pokémon could approach, stick out its claws, or something—to the extent of Pokémon Stadium, but I'm sure it wouldn't go further than that.

The game is about wild animals beating the fur off of one another, without blood I don't see the flaw in having Aron lunge and claw with his metal claw attack; the receiver flinching in response. I just want the models to make contact when they make contact, it looks bizarre and cheap as it is. The animations can be improved while maintaining an E rating.

I, too, think it's excessively repetitive. Still, what way do you suppose they should allow eggs to be hatched? (My suggestion would be to use the 3DS's pedometer.)
Some sequences and long-winded text need a display all feature or a skip/auto button. (Voice acting would be nice too!)
And, I can't stand horde battles. (Smack! 3 second wait. Smack!)

I agree with all of that. Egg breeding is forced on the player since it is an important way to complete the Pokedex; catching them all being the mission statement of Pokemon since approximately the dawn of time. Pedometer use would be good to have as an option, but I would rather the daycare just give you baby pokemon as opposed to the entire egg process. I've spent hours and hours hatching eggs, it's outstayed its welcome.

Generally I think the best and easiest ways to improve pokemon would be to remove the egg stage, add more double battles, and allow the rematching of trainers like back in gen 3.